What will Israel's attack on the Gaza flotilla mean for the Mideast peace process?

uncle tom..................

two ways by thierd party force

or proliferation of the internet(free speech)

so when arms are commonly smuggled into gaza via ship, israel shouldnt bother to prevent that by patroling the seas but instead just wait for said arms to get in the hands of the people who scream death to israel all day every day?

its ok that we take our shoes off at the airport cuz one douche tried the old spy vs spy method of terrorism, and we are not nazi-esk, but israel employs the same defense strategy in the face of repetitious terrorism and they are nazi-esk?

you do know that the Palestinians have been there for thousands of years., right? Israel was formed in the 1940's.

That argument has been going on for years.

and for thousands of years jews were there too, and no one ever created a govt. in fact the babylonians moved the jews to modern day iraq, then moved them back to serve as a buffer between them, and the persians.they both have equal claims, but only one srepped up to create a govt.

Exactly! The claims are irrelevant, what matters are the people who are there. Israel is a sovereign and successful nation, home to many millions. It has a right to exist and should be helped to remain that way. Israel also has a very real obligation to their Palestinian population in the occupied territories, one that they do not always live up to very well.

Chastising them to do that does not equal anti-Semitism or an attack on their sovereignty. Any nation that fails in their obligations can expect similar treatment. When we ignore such things we sacrifice our own humanity.

who says they have to listen.
they ignored blacks for 500 yrs

remember fire with fire

if mexico (or any other nation) decided to start annexing our territory we would do the EXACT same thing

and if mexico was bombing us regularly what would we do, az passed profiling laws without half the offenses israel needed to build it wall

I didn't say having inferior weapons made them innocent. I just said that Israel isn't so innocent either. IMO they both act like terrorist nations. It's just that Israel expects our blessings because they called the Palestinians terrorists first. In this case it took place in international waters and I think Israel overstepped their bounds... AGAIN.

israel doesnt brand them as terrorists the global community does.
i see a big difference besides the weaponry is the frequency, and reasons they us them.
800 rockets launched from gaza into israel thats ok?not terrorists?

israel reacts defensively is a pretty big difference

when kids throw rocks they're not terrorists. when professional military shoot kids throwing rocks with machine guns in my mind they're terrorists.

yeah but kids throwing rocks,frequently, is a precurser to kids with guns, as hamas doesnt enforce a conscription age minimum.but aside from israels unique situation, would us soldiers fare any better?

like all throughout history even when th us didnt support israel?
cuz they refused a to allow a jewish state in 38 before it even existed for the us to support, aswell as in 48 and so on

us jewish soldiers were specificaly told not to go fight for israel or it would earn a certain court marshall in 1948.the armorments used to create an independant israel was homemeade,italian,and english, no american support in any way.israel fought on its own for its right to exist, and while enjoyng support from us, has never required it, as it is israel that as a civilization created the most effective military force in the world.its convinient to have us build the f-16s instead of manufacturing them on thier own,but they still just see them as raw parts, used to reassemble them with israeli systems to meet israeli standards.and when our stuff is crap, they do it on thier own,from the pentium chip,to predator drones.

thier indepenance is literal

The mistake here is to think of this as "either side". This isn't something equal, some "he said, she said" argument. On one hand you have a sovereign nation and its very well funded, highly professional army, on the other you have a rag tag bunch of journalists, international observers, politicians, activists and aid workers.
The decisive action was taken by the Israeli commandos in international waters, it is up to Israel to explain these actions, not the people on the boats.

it is encumbant on the people on the boat to answer:
why do you need weapons
why did you try to provoke
why did you try to bring in aide through the path of greatest resistence instead of through egypt
why did you ignore the dozen requests to cease and desist
why did you attack the soldiers after refusing thier requests to cease and dessist

to effect change. they need to get to the negotiating table and not leave until they've worked out a proper two state solution.

well thats great that after 60 years of refusing that option now it is acceptable to them, and as soon as hamas took that position israel began back channel talks with turkey trying to use them as a third party to foster the discussion.but hamas refused.

the ultimate thing that prevents these two sitting down is hamas loses power and influence the second they sit down to talk with the jews, and israeli govt loses its support when sitting down to discuss creating a state for people who still vow to destroy them.

right but both hamas and fatah have as the foundation to thier policy the refusal to accept the state of israel, to accept a two state solution means that both hamas and fatah have to choose peace over thier personal power.once a two state solution is reached hamas and fatah have no one to blame for their lack of investment in palastinian infrastructure, or posses a method of terrorizing palastinians into unquestioning support of all they do.
no villan no hero

its all abou palastinians getting free speech(internet) thats when this ends.when they find out that jews dont need childrens blood to make passover matzhos. that israel isnt torturing its arab citizens.when they find out how much aide is given to them, and how much ends up in hamnas's pockets.

they have complete autonomy and self determination, and used it to this end.israel is already a quarter arab muslum, with no limits on procreation. a common lament within israel is that its all arab now, so thats already happened.
they have reached thier wits end and dont know how to force peace, hence the wall.

of course they wont go away, but its not about them its about israels population.the wall and its checkpoints are the last resort in 60 yrs of fighting terrorism, they were left with no choice.
btw gaza has a border with egypt its not an israel or nothing situation.

your comment has neo natzi overtones.

your comment makes a lot of scent........................of ............Bullshit, bullshit, blah blah blah, bulshit. so what is your point? had trouble deciphering your logic.

im sorry i missed that part where anti-semetism went away

yeah why bother with caring what it is just keep talking shit blah blah blah

Most of the world will want to unite against Israel.
But the truth is, all the leaders in the Security Council know that Israel is far too important to launch an attack against.

doubtful

Well we've seen that Israel has overreached sometimes and that controlling them is possible. Remember what happened in the 1956 Suez Crisis when Britain, France and Israel invaded and captured Suez. The US stepped in and used its muscle to get them to get out.

Israel, believe it or not, is actually very vulnerable to pressure. It just has to be applied.

are you qouting the bible??

the US stepped in and told england they'd sell of english currency bonds and kill their economy thats how we did it, no muscle.

Guess which country now has that exact power over the US right now? If you said China then you'd be correct.

Well to clear things up, by muscle I didn't necessarily mean military force. The US used other means to get England, France and Israel to comply.

And thank goodness that's the case! Even with their deplorable action against this flotilla, it would serve no one to attack Israel.
The last thing we need is more attacks and wars in the middle east.

if its the end times buddy, why are you piddling around here and not livin it up?

and other nations crimes are as bad or worse

strategicaly, like forcing them out of the first gulf war by denying them flight codes

pssst mention that to fatah, and hamas

Oh im everywhere trust me.

Trying to get the message to people who need it the most.

Yes kinda.

Zachariah 12

well it looks like its about to come true doesnt it...?

Yup. not sure if this interests you much, but heres the verse

"This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the Lord: "...I will make Jerusalem like an intoxicating drink that makes the nearby nations stagger when they send their armies to besiege Jerusalem and Judah. On that day I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock.

All the nations will gather against it to try to move it, but they will only hurt themselves."

And heres the rest of the prophecy if youre interested.

“On that day,” says the Lord, “I will cause every horse to panic and every rider to lose his nerve. I will watch over the people of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of their enemies. And the clans of Judah will say to themselves, ‘The people of Jerusalem have found strength in the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, their God.’

“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a flame that sets a woodpile ablaze or like a burning torch among sheaves of grain. They will burn up all the neighboring nations right and left, while the people living in Jerusalem remain secure.

“The Lord will give victory to the rest of Judah first, before Jerusalem, so that the people of Jerusalem and the royal line of David will not have greater honor than the rest of Judah. On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God, like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! 9 For on that day I will begin to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12

will?

Yes, the bible said they would, and its happening.

yea I've actually heard all about it, my dad preaches to me all the time. its a trip to read that stuff and actually see it unfold before your own eyes. that's what keeps my faith i mean you cant argue when you look at how accurate and relevant the messages are. but anyway thanks.

Yeah i know, the prophecy of the bible is what interests me the most because this is real time stuff thats going on.

This reminds me that the bible is a living breathing book. (figuratively speaking ofcourse)

regardless of it not being wanted huh?

"Preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching."

2 timothy 4:2

there are also passages that state it is a responsability to stone to death anyone who doesnt observe the sabbath, wich means we all (yourself included) pick and choose what parts are applicable to us.
when you spread the word without being asked you are imposing your will on others, i the minorest of oppressions, but still the same act none the less. whats the difference between unsolicited advice from you, or the jihadi method? both see theyre individual efforts as more important than respect of others.

"He who is without sin throw the first stone"

And seriously have you ever met someone who WANTS to be preached to?

Well first of all we dont blow ourselves up and kill innocent lives in order to get 72 virgins

btw what happens when you run out? and why 72?

who among us as a human being has the right to determine who is or is not with out sin only god can right?.unless your catholic than you are saddled with original sin

yes the go to temple every friday night,church sunday morning,or bow five times a day at a mosk

is the idea of a paridise lined with clouds,bordered with pearly gates, not also the same method of behavioral bribery?

Everyone is a sinner including myself

"for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory God"

The only thing is that there is nothing you or I could do to ever be good enough to go to heaven

im talkin about just everyday people who dont believe in god

ya lost me

If there were a heaven how good do you think you would have to be?

And if there were a hell how bad would you have to be to go there?

do you in your wildest imagination think that there is someone who posses access to the internet, but lacks access to jesus?i dont think there is a single citizen of our country that doesnt have more religious concepts bouncing about there heads then they care to.i grew up knowing more about christianity than my own religion and its not like my parents did make me go to hebrew school. i assure you no one wants to here it, who hasnt already chosen to hear it.those who havent heard are because they have made the choice not to hear it, and preaching doesnt endear religion on them, it causes a backlash.

you chose the word some choose the sword, while the results differ the crimes is the same.tresspassing on someones soul.

i would imagine as i am not divine i lack the appropriate knowledge to accurately make such judgements.so to curtail my behavior towards the goal of heaven is fruitless,as we dont know how it goes.

And youre right theres nothing that you could do to go to heaven.

You would have to be sinless from the day you were born.

We are all damned to hell and none us can earn our way to heaven.

Not even if you killed all the infidels in the world

so then why not refrain from spreading the lords word as that effort is both unwarranted,bothersome to most,and fruitless.respect the inherant will we are all granted so that we may all individualy come to enlightenment on our own accord.

on a side note ever motice that the people who are the people "chosen" to keep the lords word holy,dont proselytize.the people that god specificaly chose to recieve this information(as first hand as we can hope for) didnt see his message as one of proselytizing?

I already know im going to heaven, I preach because i want you to go as well.

And trust me its not fruitless, ive converted many people.

Some people that i have talked would have never heard the message unless it were for me

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Matthew 28

I usually try to convert people at first with my words, but then i know that i need to show them that God is working in my life.

So after i tell them im christian and that they should become christian (they think im crazy most the time) i Just shut up and let them see that its a reality in my life.

you claim you cant go to heaven unless born without sin and leading a sin free life, but also claim you are going to heaven despite your sinning.
conversion doesnt mean it wasnt fruitless, as people are converted to scientology all the time.doesnt mean that conversion is a good thing or even changes anything.does the person convert to a religion to live by that religion, or do they find a religion that suites thier lifestyle?

anyone "you" have converted were on the line anyway, you were just in the right place at the right/wrong time.

just as the crusades werent appropriate
just as jihad isnt appropriate
just as the inquasition wasnt appropriate
just as the kkk was wrong
pressing religious views on those who dont wish to recieve it is oppression wether its violent or not.

feel free to do that here, show us through your ideas, not peters,or matthews,or pauls

What are "tooth fairy people?"
Does "tooth fairy people," have the right to live and enjoy liberty?

Are "tooth fairy people," just there as targets for the Israeli military to practice shooting, and bombing?
So using your logic, one could justify what Hitler did to the Jews - by classifying the Jews as "tooth fairy people."
Because in your world "tooth fairy people," are expendable.

Yet they are no longer Egyptians or Jordanians. (Not Syrians, it was Jordan and not Syria that used to have control of the West Bank).

What alternative do you propose? Having millions of Palestinians all forcibly removed from Gaza and the West Bank and moved to Egypt and Jordan? Or having Egypt and Jordan occupy both territories?

None of these are options. Neither Egypt nor Jordan will receive millions of refugees and Israel will not be willing to give the West Bank and Gaza back to Egypt and Jordan because it will be a threat to their security. At the same time Israel has rejected their offers to establish independent states. What options have they made available?

So it doesn't really matter anymore whether or not they have historically been a "people" because they certainly are one now. The Jews never considered themselves a "nation" either until Theodr Herzl came along in the later 19th century so your point doesn't mean anything. Nationality is created, and the common shared experiences these people (The Palestinians) have gone through the last 50 or so years has made them into a people.

What is your version of the Final Solution? What should be done about these people who happen to stand in the way of Greater Israel?