Should the federal government sue Arizona over the state's new immigration law? Why or why not?

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Oh please, the 4th amendment applies to unreasonable search and seizure - So are you saying that asking for a valid ID is unconstitutional? As long as the immigration laws are on the books, this is not just an economic problem - the lack of allegiance makes it a security problem, the refusal to assimilate is a social problem and the disregard for the law makes it legal problem.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

THe 4th amendment as it fits to being stopped and questioned requires probable cause , as it stands police are having trouble establishing reasonable cause to ask for ID without using "Mexican" as a reason (which they aren't allowed to do ) . If you do this to a US citizen , it violates their civil rights , that's our law for our citizens and AZ law is making it difficult to enforce without violating civil rights . The 3 rd person they arrested was a US citizen (was let go when he should proof of citizenship ) , they don't know how to apply laws that are vague and in conflict with other laws . IF cops hate a law it must be more complicated than you see it .

If you base a choice on bad information or data that is accurate then the information was a lie and bad application of law and numbers makes for a greater lie and much bigger threat to "the state." Any solution to a problem that causes more problems then it's capable of solving is a bad solution .

you mean like obamas war in afghanistan?

I like and have done MANY of those jobs,.....it is only the "minimum wage" which is objectionable. If you had to be "legal" to be employed,.....minimum wage would simply NOT be an option for employers. That is my contention,.....and when I decide on this sort of issue, it is THE most important factor,....NO. 1 on the hierarchic scale.

I know about 25 kids looking for summer work and part time jobs, and I'll bet they know 100 more each... Keep on trying.

there may be many legal americans who dont want that work but many who should be given two choices. do the work and off of my tax supported unemployment benefits or fuckin starve. that goes for all the able bodied americans who are suckin off the welfare system as well. if you are able to work do whats available whether its mowing lawns, sweeping sidewalks, or cleaning toilets. get the fuck off welfare and unemployment so there's more available to those that really need it.

Gee, thanks for the IQ reduction Billy Bob.

Flagged.

With the exception of your opening statement (which got you a - for lack of Constitutional knowledge) I like what you said.

If the US Government refuses to enforce the laws we enacted, it is up to the States to protect their citizens. The issue is not the jobs issue so much as the welfare costs to support undocumented persons. I don't have an issue with any person of any nationality wanting to become a citizen of our country. I do have issues when the idea is to abuse our laws and demand "rights" that do not exist.

you rev unlike many others on this blog, make a lot of sense. most of the americans that disapprove of this law live outside the state of arizona and really dont know what the fuck theyre talking about. a great many legal hispanics in the u.s. also favor this law. for those of you who feel this law is inhumane and cruel why dont you take your sorry asses down to arizona and spend some time near these disputed areas ask a few questions of those crossing into this country, maybe even offer them a little water. if you come out alive i'll buy you a nice cold cerveza.

Damn. People are " -Vd " the Legal system ??? Damn.

From 2007 to 2008 violent crime and arson in Maricopa country went up, during the same time period it went down in most other Arizona counties.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_10_az.html
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_10_az.html

I've been thinking the same thing....

+^d. Yepper. Fair nuff.

I'm guessing when this gets to the supreme court, it will be shot down. I really wish the voice of the nation actually mattered.

You speak as if the United States is yours to speak for, and it's not. Your, "simple question," is racist because you use an immigrant's primary language as a tool to facilitate your negative message against them. It's not against the law to live in the U.S. without being able to speak or write English. Sarah Palin is incomprehensible.

As head of the Executive Branch of our Government, he is charged with *ENFORCING* the Constitution, a.k.a. the "Supreme Law of the Land."

You, my very young friend, need some education in American Government.

Federally marijuana is illegal. If they wanted they could have the DEA go and raid every dispensary, court case is not required.

This is not a Race issue. It is about the State of Arizona standing up to say No More open borders.

An insult to who, you?

yes every day, In work in a call center and a lot of customers have no idea that i speak enough spanish to get a beer and know when im being insulted, thank you grandma. English is what binds us a culture, we dont have a race in the usa, we dont really have a defined culture we are a wonderful and beutiful mix of music and entertainment and food, hundreds of cultures have contributed, but all the imigrants learned one thing: english. I am all for bringing you music and food and culture and religion with you, and your language i think it is important to know your heritage, but when you come to this country and mean to stay a while learn to speak our language. It is the one thing left that brings this country together. Do not miss my meaning, im a child of stricly north eastern european descent and a little bit of native american. my favorite food however is a gyro, thank god greeks imagrated to make those. I love authentic mexican food, african music, and i will admit to a soft spot for music from south of the border, its just spice. and dont even get me started on chinease food, this country would not be the same without asian food and music just please when you come learn our language. If i ever move to mexico i will learn fluent spanish, im not saying you have to be great at it and get it right away just give it a go.

Hmmm....my spellcheck knows that overprivileged is a word...I guess Apple isn't racist!

please explain.

Well based on what they always say about Medical Marijuana for instance, it's federally illegal but state legal in some states. And last I checked the Federal government enjoys smashing up the legal state medical marijuana operations.

So from my understanding of that and what I've always heard; the federal government has more power and control than the state governments.

EmperorThan,

Constitutionally your claim that "Fed power overrides the state's authority" would be incorrect. However, in practice, you are correct as the states have lost all their power.

Federal power only trumps state power if it is a legitimate function of the federal government. Meaning any of the powers granted to the Federal government by the Constitution.

If your claim was correct then there isn't even any point in creating the powers of each branch.

True.

but if you went down to arizona were mistaken for an immigrant then asked to prove your citizenship wouldn't you be pissed. this law isn't about so much about the people who are here illegally, it's about the people who are here legally that are going to be racially profiled because they look or sound like someone who doesn't fit the "american" profile.

You are correct denmarc. Unfortunately, statists and anti-liberty supporters have continually misused and misquoted the Supremacy Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause. One need only read the quotes of the Founding Fathers to determine the meanings of those statements.

Immigration is already a federal responsibility.

What ever the feds don't specifically indicate or do, doesn't that fall on the states to take care of?

Did we all forget about that?

The Fed dismissal of this issue, and AZ's much needed response will probably be used as just another reason to step on state's rights.

I can imagine new federal laws going into place JUST for border states... How convenient.

But, but! That would make too much sense.

They musn't, why? because it's clearly not the Feds business. If it were, they'd have done someone about the illegals pooring [not a typo, think about it] into the states.

We are definitely divided these days.

I wish the liberal utopias like California (who is billions in debt) would break off and start their own country. Then the Republican/Right-wing neo-cons can have the the middle, and everyone else (Liberty supporters) can take the east.

We'll see which part does better.

are you that brainwashed that a law against ILLEGAL PEOPLE BEING IN THE COUNTRY has anything to do with racism. i dont see people sticking up for other lawbreakers this much. hell try going to mexico illegally and tell me how much you like sitting around in those prisons. i wish every state had that law, then you couldn't have anything to complain about. here in washington we have to worry about illegal mexicans, asians, indians, africans and russians. we have just as many illegals, they're just mixed more than in arizona where it's pretty damn easy to spot. ffs it's about having papers behind your ID in your wallet, how hard is that? we already have papers in our cars, now it's in your wallet, big deal, (unless it's the largest piece of paper any document could ever be printed on, then it could be a big deal)legal citizens don't have anything to worry about. there will be counterfeiting of the papers about a week after they're released anyways

Arizona's law is identical to federal law.

No it is not.

No it's not , the federal law has probable cause not broad and vague suspicion as a guide

One thing Current will continue to stand for is discussion, and BFDs definitely play into this. Back in the early days we had something similar to BFD called "The Current Question." BFD is similar to that concept, although we have plans to expand it further going forward. If you are not a fan, that is totally fine -- you should simply choose to ignore them.

However, considering that you've chosen to post a comment on nearly every BFD posted, perhaps you'll consider contributing something of value to one of the discussions next time?

nicely put zinger!

then make it like it used to be where the conversation is meaningful and will actually matter, not fly traps for the sheeple. where it'll end up on tv where more people will actually see it and the message is getting out to more than the few hundred stuck up libs that sit around here on current. the old current.... was about quality, the new current tv is about quantity. until we go back to the way where what we did mattered here, i will continue to complain.

for the record, mario, you're on of the few staffers i appreciate since i see your work remain mostly unbiased and fair. just so you know there's nothing personal involved here with you specifically.

and no, the federal government shouldn't do anything to arizona except feel inadequate that the state had to step up to this level to do the federal governments job for them since the feds failed at immigration control for the last twenty years.

In all fairness, I don't think anyone on the site has any idea what the "new current" is about just yet. We haven't fully unveiled everything we're working on yet, so I completely understand where your frustration is coming from. Once things are ready to roll out, you guys will be the first to hear about it.

For the record, we would much rather see rich and dynamic conversation from a broader spectrum of folks with varying beliefs and world views. Yes, we want more people to be active in the discussion, but we also want quality conversation to play into things as well. Creating a module like BFD to stoke conversation was not a move to curb quality, it was a move to give everyone one centralized place to discuss something we picked to highlight daily.

One of our plans for BFD is to turn this into something that plays right into "getting on TV," however we're not quite ready for that just yet. For now, it's a tool to stir up conversation and discussion. We hear your concerns and desire for more "on TV" interaction, and to answer you frankly, "we're working on it."

While I know there is nothing personal here, I do have a suggestion. If you really want to promote a "return to quality" then perhaps you should consider setting the example rather than airing your gripe on every BFD post. These types of comments detract from any constructive discussion that could take place on posts like these.

Just a thought.