Big Featured Discussions | July 01, 2010 | 42 comments

Should the U.S. treat "homegrown" Islamic extremists differently from those who are not citizens?

source: http://current.com/shows/vanguard/92520671_a-terrorists-best-friend-scenes-from-vanguard.htm

afitzgerald
The prosecution of foreign-born detainees at Guantanamo has proven extremely tough for the government to handle. But what about so-called "homegrown" Islamic extremists like Omar Hammami who was featured in "American Jihadi"?

http://current.com/shows/vanguard/92520671_a-terrorists-best-friend-scenes-from-...
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42 comments // Should the U.S. treat "homegrown" Islamic extremists differently from those who are not citizens? // Video

  • versasrev
    • 0
      versasrev  

    • Well not according to the laws that have been laid out in the past few years. Then again when has the U.S. government been concerned with laws either domestic or international in regards to terrorism.

    • 1 year ago
  • webmoocher
    • 0
      webmoocher  

    • Terrorism is an act of war, any citizen of the United States engaging in terrorist activities should be charged with treason and, if found guilty, publicly hanged or shot. Housing these people in our prisons would only give them the opportunity to spread their disease. Let 'em have cockmeat sandwiches for the last meal.

    • 1 year ago
  • littlwarrior
    • +5
      littlwarrior  

    • All US citizens no matter how heinous their crime should be granted the rights of a US citizen, not what the damn patriot act say. Foreign terrorists should be treated as prisoners of war, and if what they did broke international law then treat them acording to the codes and strictures of international law. we need to stop strutting around the world as if everything is different when it applies to US.

    • 1 year ago
  • mitekillem
    • 0
      mitekillem  

    • Those who commit crimes on US soil, no matter how heinous, should be subject to the full extent of US law. The same should apply to all citizens.
      However, if they're commiting crimes against the US on foreign soil, they should either be subject to the law of that country, or be tried for Treason against the US.
      ~I think treason against the US is automatic death.

    • 1 year ago
  • EmperorThan
    • +3
      EmperorThan  

    • Yes, because they're American citizens and the Bill of Rights still exists no matter what the Patriot Act says.

      But if they're not in this country we shouldn't 'treat' them at all. Because our laws apply to people standing on OUR SOIL. If they're in other countries they're subject to that country's laws.

    • 1 year ago
  • jaystyx
    • 0
      jaystyx  
    • EmperorThan:

      Constitutional rights should be extended to all US citizens regardless of circumstance. No doubt the Constitution give scoundrels more protection than they really deserve, but I don’t want the govt. deciding when it does and does not apply.

      It’s more about protecting the rights of law abiding citizens.

    • 1 year ago
  • Darevalo
    • +4
      Darevalo  

    • yes.

      why?

      because they are citizens.

      end of story.

      all you other people are just aggravated for a good reason...but there is a difference when you start saying its ok to treat civilians like crap... we already have corporate america to treat us like shit.... we dont need to encourage the government to help any.

    • 1 year ago
  • remanns
  • Buddha2112
    • 0
      Buddha2112  
    • Darevalo:

      I can't believe you're the only one speaking sense here.

      Citizens = rights under our constitution.

      Non-citizens = rights under international law, whatever the fuck that means, but definitely not = to what citizens should expect.

      It's really not THAT complicated. Now, is it possible to say traitors are more frowned upon? Quite possibly, but it's all outlined in US law, and should take that law into full account. You'd almost expect [hope] homegrown terrorists would be treated WORSE due to that fact alone, but there is a due process of law that must be followed and applied. The only problem is our laws can be fucked up, and our court system is equally bass-ackwards.

    • 1 year ago
  • Darevalo
  • dragon1984
    • -2
      dragon1984  

    • Treat them differently? Not at all. If they want to adopt the same mentality that our enemies worldwide have, then treat them just like our enemies worldwide. Simple.

    • 1 year ago
  • blbi11
    • -1
      blbi11  

    • Short answer: no. The way to "beat" terrorism is to show that America will be fair, even when we are being threatened. For many, sympathy towards extremist groups comes out of a dislike of how the government is perceived as treating them.

      But that is my idealistic humanism at work....

    • 1 year ago
  • daveinLA
  • Darevalo
  • Armageddon_Now
  • jaystyx
  • cztheday
    • +1
      cztheday  
    • jaystyx:

      "Yes, the bill of rights pertains to all US citizens..." -- but the headline seems to be asking whether islamists who are citizens should be treated differently than islamists who are NOT citizens. I am nor sure that non-citizens SHOULD receive all of the protections citizens enjoy under our Bill of Rights.

      While I think that citizens and non-citizens alike should enjoy the due process of law, I am less convinced that non-citizens should enjoy the same rights to freedom of assembly or even freedom of speech. If non-citizen islamists are here to foment discontent with our government or to spread fear and insecurity among our population, I think we should have a greater right to shut them down than we would have with respect to citizens who are, of course, entitled as part of their citizenship to engage in vigorous debate on issues such as the fitness of those who govern us.

    • 1 year ago
  • Darevalo
    • -1
      Darevalo  
    • cztheday:

      here is the test though...

      question 1: are you a citizen of the us?

      if the answer is yes... all of our laws and due process applies. no if and or buts.

      if the answer is no. then i have no idea... im not good with international law... but apparently we throw them in gitmo and put a sack on there head for a year...(reeeeal american of us)

    • 1 year ago
  • jaystyx
    • 0
      jaystyx  
    • cztheday:

      Fully in agreement with you there. Constitutional rights should only apply to US citizens. Foreign Jihadists aren’t entitled to anything.

      That being said, this guy is in a lot of trouble even though he is a US citizens. He will still likely spend the rest of his life behind bars.

    • 1 year ago
  • observer2121
  • dragon1984
  • Darevalo
  • MrPleasant
    • +1
      MrPleasant  

    • These things will exists regardless of how much you try to stop it... Religion is many different things to many people it's not something you can judge.. if the Tao-Te Ching, The Holy Bible, Confucian, Vedas, etc.. said the same things how would the communities react to the same task, if they were raised strongly to believe that this is the only way.. it just depends on how devout the followers of any group are or how extreme

    • 1 year ago
  • NotFooled
  • toyotabedzrock
    • -1
      toyotabedzrock  

    • I think we have to under law, and I think that is sufficient. Citizens should be put threw a rehabilitation program.

      Saudi Arabia has a rehab program that might be useful if we imitate it for some like the times square bomber.

    • 1 year ago
  • artemis6
  • NotFooled
  • Darevalo
  • artemis6
  • djaa
    • -3
      djaa  

    • please dont talk about other people's religion especially the one that u dont have any knowledge on so freely..there are no religions in the world that support brutality and abuse..All Muslim lives and learn from one main source which is Quran. I challenge u to find a sentence in Quran which support this "anti-social, disgraceful, and violent aspects" urself..if u find it, feel free to tell the world abt it..

      please dont search n learn abt religion from the internet bcoz it obviously have shown so much confusing facts about the world.

      i will say this once again, Islam does not support terrorism..do ur own research rather than believe what others tells u..

    • 1 year ago
  • musicjohnny
    • +5
      musicjohnny  
    • djaa:

      I'm not saying at all that anything but a small minority of Muslims support terrorism, but as far as where the ones who do support it get their ideology from...it's right there in the Qur'an.

      Specifically right here:
      Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

      and here:
      Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

      and here:
      Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."


      And here:
      Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

      And here:
      Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

      And here:
      Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

      There are TONS of violent verses in the Qur'an and once again I'm not saying that anyone but a very small minority of crazy people take them to mean that they should participate in terrorist acts, but there's no denying that this is where fundamentalist Islamic terrorists are getting their motivation from.

    • 1 year ago
  • daveinLA
  • UrbanGypsy
    • +1
      UrbanGypsy  

    • Only if they are US citizens.

      All US citizens should be treated according to their constitutional rights. An argument can be made for trying non-citizens differently, but never for US citizens.

      I believe in what John Locke called "Federative Power". The executive should be allowed to exercise power more flexibly when dealing with non-domestic matters, but when something concerns a US citizen it immediately becomes a domestic matter and subject to the rules of the Constitution.

    • 1 year ago
  • daveinLA
    • 0
      daveinLA  
    • Image

    • Islam has many anti-social, disgraceful, and violent aspects. Islam's Koran advocates killing people who refuse to convert to Islam.

    • 1 year ago
  • ozoneocean
  • daveinLA
  • Nephwrack
  • remanns
  • Nephwrack
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