The difference is holistics

Jmorrisey:
I'm afraid to say that your definition of Homeopathy:

homeopathy means non-toxic therapy and healing a patient as an integrated whole...as opposed to just treating symptoms....that's it.

is not accurate. This is why I originally tried it for many years and why the general public is having trouble. I wish that I didn't have to say this but it is true.

There is a big difference between Homeopathy and Natural , Holistic and Preventive Medicines. People are having trouble grasping this due to so many distortions in the media and FDA sponsored "studies" we don't know what to believe anymore.

Homeopathy is approved by our corrupt FDA so that gives me even more reason to not trust them.

Just to be clear: I never doubted the reality of placebo effect; what I said is that it does not last over a long period of time (hardly ever past a month).

Great responses.
I will need to read them all asap.
I am trying to get the video links to the BBC video on Homeopathy. It is several part in a series so not easy to link to.

spoon:
I used Homeopathy for a few years and it didn't work for me. If I took supplements or herb or massage or acupuncture..breathing to relieve stress...meditation.... they usually worked almost right away. I consult often with Dr Weil and my Integrative MD who has med school training as well as Alternative Medicine degree.

I think one problem is the definition of Homeopathic, which is this infintestimally small amount in water substance..
verses words like Holistic...or Natural Medicine... Integrative Health..Prevention....
these are totally different science based practices concept. People seem to lump them together.

If consumers knew what they were really buying was this substance that is really water I think they should be angry...when they could be helping their animals and loved ones with more effective methods..

The placebo effect is so powerful. I have watched it work myself. It is not a fantasy it is real.

At least Homeopathic is harmless, if not effective beyond its placebo effect.,...except for the possibility that they won't use other means of healing themselves.

. Many of the pharmaceutical drugs are both placebo and harmful...much worse!!! Often fatally.Some of these drugs can maime and kill people.

I feel as if I am loosing friends here but I want to get this conversation out in the Current Forum to help people who are taking Homeopathic medicine in ignorance INSTEAD of other more effective treatments, for serious chronic illnesses.

If they use it as a backup that is fine. I am not religious but in a jam I will even pray in my head in a great while....all that stuff is fine...as long as it is with education of alternative methods of healing. ..

Pressrecord...raw food and Vegan are great!
I'll read more of the posts later
Thanks!!!!

To paraphrase the Bard: There are more things in heaven and earth, Dawkins, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. ;)

I don't even have to read this study. Sounds like another government cover up. Remember who has much to lose if people really understood how heathy they could be without surgerys and synthetic drugs. My experiences: I have been doing bio-electrical dermal screening for about 5 years now. I take all my kids, my husband, friends. I have never seen anything close to what this can do. Look it up online. Homeopathics and supplements are used. It is very scientific and I have seen what the avergae person would call "mirracles." My 6 year old daughter was sick while we were 1200 miles from home. We, against my better judgment took her to a Dr. He immidiatly put her on antibiotics. Made her worse. He wanted to put her on stronger antibiotics. He didn't know exactly what was wrong with her. We parents both said no. We called our homeopathic Dr. in Salt Lake and left the next day. The medicle Md. told us we wouldn't make it back without ending up in an emergency room. We did, saw the homeopathic and she was better in a couple of days.
I was sicker than a dog. Sever headachs along with cronic sinus and many other things. Was always very healthy in my life, never over weight. Ended up with fibromyalgia, pale, and other things. First time I saw the homeopathic to deal with what Dr's couldn't, I also was skepticle.With in a about 5 weeks, I was a new human being.
My 8 year old son had been peakid and was would get tired very quickly. One time when I was getting a retest we thought we would have him tested. Very non intrusive. No needles or anything scary. He had tuberculosis. Do you all realize that these diseases are around again and that there are people who are dying from these things, and that convential medicne can no longer diagnose or solve many of these problems without causing more damage. You can not destroy the immune system and expect a person to recover. Anyways, we had him tested, put him on homeopathics and he became a new kids. Color back, happy, energetic. The bio electrical dermal screening is a huge part of this. Not just the homeopathics. Another thing, homeopathics don't hurt you like synthtic drugs if you try the wrong one. Quit believing the scam. The Food and Drug administration is supported by the Pharmacuticle companies. Hello. You can believe these things or not. I spend allot of time trying to help people, share stories, educate regarding options for the many who feel hopeless in our current medicle system. I am an advacate of real food as close to what it looks like in its natural state. If you want to read a good book, "Natural Cures They Don't Want You To Know About." I now tell people, do what you want, when you get really sick, and you can't be helped, call and I will get you the information. Blessings to you all.

I think a lot of us are using different definitions of "homeopathy". I thought it meant using a small amount of something to cure a reaction to the same thing, like when small amounts of disabled flu virus antigens are used to make our bodies produce flu antibodies, or small pox vaccinations, or allergy shots where you are given a dilute formula of a substance then build up allergic immunity ("good" antibodies) to that substance. I guess it depends on how you define "homeopathy"?

Placebo effects are not generally long lived for treating real (not imaginary) and chronic (not temporary) conditions. After 30 days almost all placebo effects wear off, according to a doctor who I believe (but still could be mistaken).

My understanding of homeopathic remedies is that the concentrations found in medicines is so small that it is similar to merely breathing the air. Thus, the placebo effect is more than likely to be true.

I agree with SicknJersey about healing being a package.

One cannot heal in a vacuum of alopahty or homeopathy. The spiritual and psycho-social condition has to be dealt with simultaneously in order for healing to occur.

Let me tell u a story. As far back as I can remember, I've been severely allergic to poison oak. I've had it multiple times in a summer and sometimes even in the winter. When I get it, the rash usually will spread fast and will be all over my body. A few times its been so bad that I couldn't open my eyes or mouth, I could barely breathe. I always use homeopathic remedies for it, (sulpher) and I don't "believe" in it, it just works.

The thing about Homeopathic remedies is that you have to go to a homeopathic physician and s/he must be very good. Also, it takes time to get all the symptoms down so that they give you the proper remedy.

The fact that there is no measurable trace of the healing substance in the actual pill just means that our methods of measuring aren't accurate.

Well, I have seen it work on horses, there was no change in diet or in the attitude of the horse owners who were very skeptical about the vet's methods. I've seen it work on babies and children where there was no change in diet and whose parents were as open to allopathy as to homeopathy. I've seen it work on children whose parents tried homeopathy after everything else had failed - there again, no change in diet, and the parents'attitude was that of having given up and tried homeopathy without enthusiasm or believing in it. Note that homeopathy doesn't work on me (I tried it having great faith in it, to no avail) but it works on other members of my family. Note also that homeopathy doesn't have immediate effects, it takes time, and works best on chronic conditions like rheumatism, chronic bronchitis, chronic sinusitis, etc. It is of no use in acute conditions.

Sorry to offend anyone..just trying to get a discussion going more than anything..get some to research it.
gtg

I would think a combination of both methods would be the best approach. For some, one or the other might just do,so isn't it just a matter of finding what works, period?

Q:
Homeopathy is also believed to work on animals and babies. Could the placebo effect also explain this?

A:
The apparent effect of a placebo could also be due to other interventions that occur at the same time - changes in diet for instance, or just increased care and attention. There could also be a degree of wishful thinking on behalf of the human observer - believing an animal or baby that received the treatment has improved more than it has because of unconscious bias. There might also be an indirect placebo effect - the treatment makes a carer feel more relaxed and this is picked up by an animal or baby.

Because of these possibilities, research (even on animals and babies) can only be convincing if it is 'double blind' and placebo controlled. This means that the researcher mustn't know which subjects have received the test treatment and which have received the placebo.

"Homeopathic is basically water with a magic spell on it..." But no spells are used on water to create homeopathy remedies - most of which are dry and not wet. If it were just as you described, then how would you explain that it works on animals?

Massage, oils, mantras are provable..meditation are all great!

Homeopathic is something you can try but people should know that it is not something to buy into with limited money..I think that is my gripe.
If you have a bucks to spend after you buy items that are scientifically provable then you can go ahead and buy the Homeopathic products.
I see too much money and time being spent on it though.

I am concerned that people think I am saying that I don't like traditional medicine and massage and meditation because I say I don't like Homeopathic.

These are different things..
I am pretty sure most people don't understand this.

Mornrail..Hoodoo..I am not familiar with it but the use of ancient rituals is not what I am discussing.

I am very interested and have quite a bit of faith in practices like Hoodoo (using folk remedies including "minerals" to heal themselves)

There is a difference here..Homeopathic and folk remedies are not in the same category at all.

Homeopathic is basically water with a magic spell on it and that is all it seem to be to me.

Most of the Folk Remedies are valid and scientifically provable to help diseases and have been used effectively.

hey folks, I think that homeopathy is part of a larger package.no pun intended , it is a frame of mind and an inner piece that allows your mind to repair your body , positive thinking! the oils the essences the all extras it is what can relax you to allow the negative to flow out the positive to flow in , but you must be able to visualize in your minds eye. and watch the changes take place in your body.it is in essence the power of positive thinking and being comfortable enough to do that,hence massage , oils , mantra, meditation and so much more are all intertwined, its hard to do controlled studys on such a thing .

I have mixed feeling about approaching this subject, because of the substantial placebo benefit people are getting out of it, without any doubt.. but the subject should be out there.
My problem is more and more people are being directed to Homeopathic and bypassing other scientifically provable methods...such as Herbs and Supplements and Meditation..
people with limited budgets.with babies and the elderly It would not be as bad if someone had lots of money to spend and could try all types of things..
It is not right to direct an elderly person to bypass scientifically proven herbal remedy with 92% efficacy and no side effects ...and have her spend her limited dollars on a Homeopathic remedy which is of little or no value...scientifically speaking.

I think that sometimes placebo gets a bad rap, as I've heard before. I kind of believe it but I also don't believe in throwing away money.

I was always interested in the testing that goes into homeopathy however I think sometimes it just comes from tradition. Word of mouth, I suppose. Something that your grandmother did, and her grandmother did, so on and so on. Then again, it's quite sad for anyone to capitalize on what's usually tradition. I have known people of Creole descent practice Hoodoo (not to be confused with Voodoo) using folk remedies including "minerals" to heal themselves. And it seems to come out of family, not Whole Foods, Wild Oats, or any other healthfood store.

It's a weird thing to consider. Does it work for you, does it not work for someone else? It's hard to tell even with studies b/c you'll always know someone personally who's used it. I guess it's only a problem in the context of waste, or companies making big money off of it.

The whole example with Airborne and them having to settle a $23.3 million settlement seemed silly to me when it's being done everyday. And I'm sure Airborne was effective for the consumers until they found out. I think as long as people know that these products aren't always approved by FDA, there's no harm. I guess we all have to find out what works for us.

I can't read them in French and German but the English studies I followed carefully all lead to dead ends in one way or another...I never found any of substance...they initially looked good but faded out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum

Here is a list of annotations/bibliography with regard to studies, from an article in French at
http://www.boiron.com/fr/htm/recherche-homeopathie/placebo-homeopathie.htm

It might give you some pointers for your continued research:

1. Kleijnen J., Knipschild P., Riet G., Clinical trials of homeopathy, British Medical Journal, 1991.

2. Boissel J.P., Cucherat M., Haugh M., Gauthier E., Overview of data from homeopathic medicine trials : report on the efficacy of homeopathic interventions over no treatment or placebo, Report to the European Commission, 1996.

3. Linde K., Clausius N., Ramirez G., Melchart D., Eitel F., Hedges V.L., Jonas W.B., Are the clinical effects of homeopathy placebo effects ? A meta-analysis of placebo-controlled trials, The Lancet, 1997.

4. Shang A., Egger M.,Are the clinical effects of homeopathy placebo effects ? Comparative study of placebo-controlled trials of homeopathy and allopathy, The Lancet, august 27, 2005

5. The Lancet, december 17/24/31, 2005

6. I.R. Bell et al., Amélioration de l’état clinique chez des patients souffrant d’une fibromyalgie par des médicaments homéopathiques personnalisés contrôlés contre placebo., Rheumathology, Janvier 2004.

7. Reilly D.T., Taylor M.A., Potent placebo or potency ? A proposed study model with initial findings using homeopathically prepared pollens in hayfever, British Homeopathic Journal, 1985.

8. Reilly D.T., Taylor M.A., Mc Sharry C., Aitchison T.C., Is homeopathy a placebo response ? Controlled trial of homeopathic potency, with Pollen in hayfever as model, The Lancet, 1986.

9. Matusiewicz R., The homeopathic treatment of corticosteroid-dependent asthma. A double-blind,placebo-controlled study, Biomed. Ther., 1997.

10. Ferley J.P., Zmirou D., D’Adhemar D., Balducci F., A controlled evaluation of a homeopathic preparation in the treatment of influenza-like syndromes, British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, 1989. - Papp R., Schuback G., Beck E., Burkard G., Bengel J., Lehrl S., Belon P., Oscillococcinum(R) in patients with influenza-like syndromes: a placebo-controlled double-blind evaluation, British Homeopathic Journal, 1998.

11. Berrebi A., Parant O., Ferval F., Thene M., Ayoubi J.M., Connan L., Belon P., Traitement de la douleur de la montée laiteuse non souhaitée par homéopathie dans le post-partum immédiat, J. Gynecol. Obstet. Biol. Reprod. (Paris), 2001.

12. P.Pommier et al., Essai randomisée de phase III de Calendula officinalis comparé à la trolamine pour la prévention de la dermatite aiguë au cours d’une radiothérapie pour cancer du sein, Journal of Clinical Oncology, Avril 2004.

13. Khuda-Bukhsh A.R. and al., Can homeopathic arsenic remedy combat arsenic poisoning in humans exposed to groundwater arsenic contamination , eCAM , october 2005.

14. Khuda-Bukhsh A.R. and al, Can administration of potentized homeopathic remedy, arsenicum album, alter antinuclear antibody titer in people living in high-risk arsenic contaminated areas ?, eCAM, january 2006.

15. Jacobs J., Jimenez L.M., Gloyd S., Carares F.E., Gaitan M.P., Crothers D., Homeopathic treatment of acute childhood diarrhea, British Homeopathic Journal, 1993.

16. Jacobs J., Jimenez M., Malthouse S., Chapman E., Crothers D., Masuk M., Jonas W., Homeopathic treatment of acute childhood diarrhea : results from a clinical trial in Nepal., J. Altern. Complement. Med., 2000.

17. Frei H. and al, Homeopathic treatment of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder : a randomised, double link, placebo controlled crossover trial, European journal of pediatrics, 2005

It seems that there are studies published in French and in German, pretty rigorous studies at that. Right now, I am examining one - PDF format - in French, at:

http://www.boiron.com/download/04_recherche_homeo/P16_39.pdf

Vierrotchka.
I would love to see any studies that you can find...just one.
I have been looking for them online and in books since the 90's and have not found a single one.
It is used by millions, used for hundreds of years, the FDA approves.. but I can't see any scientific proof.
I am a progressive person with an open mind and want it to work.
I can't find any proof at all...every study leads to a dead end.
When Ispoke to them at Whole Foods they told me the FDA approved. To me FDA approval in these times make me more suspicious

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml
BBC link

Q:
Homeopathy is also believed to work on animals and babies. Could the placebo effect also explain this?

A:
The apparent effect of a placebo could also be due to other interventions that occur at the same time - changes in diet for instance, or just increased care and attention. There could also be a degree of wishful thinking on behalf of the human observer - believing an animal or baby that received the treatment has improved more than it has because of unconscious bias. There might also be an indirect placebo effect - the treatment makes a carer feel more relaxed and this is picked up by an animal or baby.

Because of these possibilities, research (even on animals and babies) can only be convincing if it is 'double blind' and placebo controlled. This means that the researcher mustn't know which subjects have received the test treatment and which have received the placebo.

I don't know about scientific studies, but homeopathy is covered by health insurance here in Switzerland. Homeopathic medicines against bronchitis, against sinusitis and many other conditions sell well and work. They also work well on babies. Some veterinarians use homeopathy on cattle, horses, and pets, and it works - one cannot talk of a placebo effect where babies and animals are concerned.

Homeopathy is of no use in acute cases as its effect takes time. In acute cases, allopathy is the right approach.

Homeopathic remedies do not work if one takes mint in any form - even in toothpaste. Neither does it work if one ingests garlic in any shape or form. Some people's organisms do not react to homeopathy, too.

Right on Carolyn. It didn't work for you because you didn't believe. You can (wish) a wart away if you believe. But it won't work if you know better.