US troops trying to convert Iraqis to Christianity

Its just so arrogant for either Christian or Muslim to talk about eternity as if they are the prophets themselves. That soldier need to find eternity in himself before he goes and tries to teach other about "eternity".

I'm honestly confused by so many posters' outrage at this. It is one thing, and a very understandable thing, to regard religion as a whole as a means of control, the cause of much bloodshed, hatred, and so on, but labeling this instance as the "shoving" of one person's beliefs down another person's throat is ridiculous.

He shared his belief with the Iraqi in a peaceful way. If the policy of the the U.S. military as a whole was to convert any occupied country to Christianity, that would be disgusting. If they did so through violent or oppressive means, it would be appalling. But that is not the case here.

Some of you act as if the mere transmission of religious ideas equates to forced conversion.

Conversion efforts are always disgusting...using fear to control someone is exactly what's been going on.

One more thing: It's apparently a little-known fact that the Crusades were simply a retaliation to the Muslim invasions. The Muslim forces had attacked Constantinople and in fact invaded 2/3 of Christian land.

That's not to defend the Knights Templar, mind you.

dismemberment, I agree that we need to win the trust of the locals. That's why General Petreus has attached experts on Islamic culture to the fighting units in Iraq, and also probably a big part of why violence has gone down.

Let me see? The coin said "Where will you spend eternity?" Isn't this the question we must all ask ourselves? I know for one that we do not die once our flesh dies. The spirit of each person lives on. Where will that spirit live? There is only two choices...good or bad. No middle ground. Also, John 3:16 says, "For God so LOVED the world, that HE GAVE!" HE GAVE! What is so terrible about that?

I'd say aside from all religious debate, it's probably not the best idea to be handing out the coins. I would not want any Iraqis to be in danger or to have their families threatened for accepting the coins. as for right now, whether or not you support the war, I think we should be concerned with getting this thing over and getting our men and women home safely to be with their families. some people say we're occupiers, some people say we have an obligation to fight dictators, and regardless of which side you sit on, I think it's common sense that when your military is in a foreign country, you should be trying to gain the trust of the locals. even if that marine thought he was doing a good thing, he could be compromising the safety of his fellow soldiers and Iraqi civilians, as well as creating further resentment among civilians who are sympathetic to the other side. we shouldn't be Americanizing Iraq. we shouldn't be spreading Christianity, building McDonald's, or producing Iraqi Idol. their culture needs to be respected and preserved. any attempt at religious conversion should be done by private religious organizations if they so choose.

im not a christian but i see no wrong in what the marines are doing if they wanna give out coins supporting christianity why not? I know it is illegal for military personnel to do this, but really there is much more that the marines are doing that we should be worried about. A christian is supposed to spread the words of jesus christ especially to those who dont accept him as God. Its not like they are forcing them to convert lol. religious people whether they be muslim, christian, jews, or anything else take some things far too seriously.

First off i will say that i assumed your past comments on Muslims were generalizing all Muslims, so i do apologize for that assumption. I come from a generally closed minded town where the mention of Muslims is almost universally equal to terrorists to the majority of people i meet here.

I also was not trying to imply that Americans where naive in comparison, either way your right that most terrorist attacks recently have been committed by Muslims, and the citizens there do need to push them out.

In my opinion i just think the coin thing alienates people more than helps them, that is at least what the people in the article show, thats why i am against it.

If someone gave me a pamphlet/coin saying that "Allah is God", I really wouldn't care. I would just walk out of sight to be polite then discard it.

I find it funny that people are so thin-skinned about exposure to religion.

And I think it's incorrect to imply that Americans are mentally naiive compared to the rest of the world. America has the second highest percentage of citizens holding a 4-year degree.

I think it ironic that you call my remarks intolerant. If you criticize George W. Bush, does that mean that you hate the USA?

Yes, Iraqi's lives are difficult and dangerous.
This situation will only improve when they kick the extremists out of their neighborhoods and form a peace between Sunni and Shiite.

Basically I would agree with you if the facts didn't say otherwise. Christian terrorist attacks have been few and far between in the last decade, while over 10,000 major recorded Islamic attacks resulting in deaths have occurred since 9/11.

Aswego, I don't know who you think I am, but
I have several Islamic friends. I understand that not all Muslims are intolerant of other religions, I just know that Muslim authority is, and Christian authority is not.

Yes, there are also some Christian radicals as well, but it is very rare nowadays that they ever kill anybody, whereas almost all terrorist attacks are commited by Muslims.

6/1/2008 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - A Chinese carpet salesman is murdered by Muslim gunmen while sitting in a tea shop.
6/1/2008 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - The Taliban kill a woman with a remote-controlled bomb.
5/31/2008 (Mamad Ghat, Pakistan) - An innocent bystander is killed when a Taliban bomb explodes prematurely.
5/31/2008 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - A young girl is killed during an ambush by Islamic militia.
5/31/2008 (Hit, Iraq) - Ten Iraqis are blown apart by a religious extremist with a suicide vest.
5/31/2008 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - A 40-year-old motorcycle dealer is murdered by Islamic gunmen while walking home.

This was only within the span of a few days.

Its kind of funny that you say that Saber 2011 because i know a few Muslim's who absolutely love being friends with non Muslims and have no problem with their religion, so right there your theory that "Muslim's believe you die or convert" is shot to shit. I also have had a Christian street preacher tell me i deserved to die for being agnostic. So please do not generalize religions when you cannot account for every member and especially when you are wrong about the culture as a whole.

just because some of you are intolerant and hateful of the Muslim religion and culture thinking all they want to do is kill everyone does not mean you are correct in that idea, no matter how indoctrinated it is in you. (granted there ARE psychotics who fight under the banner of that religion, as there are those who fly under the banner of Christianity in the same way.)

just look at it this way, how would you feel if i had a gun in my hand, and would not let you into your home until i gave you a coin that said "Allah is god". i highly doubt, seeing as how you say Muslims only kill if you don't convert, that you would be as fine with it as with Christianity being the religion in question.

and finally the coin in question said "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16." Which to someone who is Muslim, who does not agree with said quote it basically reads "You are going to burn in hell unless you join us! John 3:16" so yes it is demeaning, it is forceful ,and it is NOT that soldiers job to be a street preacher of sorts he should be more concentrated on WHO is going through that checkpoint rather than if they read a quote on a coin. He needs to chose which one he wants to work with, a bible, or a gun. but not both. Too many people have died and caused death by trying to work with both.

Put yourself in these peoples shoes for once, their lives are a hard one, their families are being killed, their homes occupied, and they have to be fearful that soldiers may just decide that they look "terrorist" enough to kill for fun. The last thing the NEED and deserve is to be told they belong in hell unless they change their religion.

Well said Saber 2011

Aswego, first of all calling mrpibb19's post
"one way view propaganda" is extremely hypocritical. By your own standards, YOUR post is a "one way view propaganda".

Once again, this soldier did not force his views upon the person, and comparing Muslim conversion and Christian conversion is impossible.
Muslims believe that you convert or you die.
Christians merely hand you a coin with a Bible verse.

Please stop trying to get other people to convert to "of all things" Christianity. Christianity is just as violent as Islam. If you knew anything about Islam the war they talk about is the war that you have with yourself when you look at your own soul. Extremist and extremist Christianity the killers

People should be allowed to chose their owm religion. Even though I would encourage them not to go the religious route.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. There is no 1st Amendment violation here (it states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"- most people forget the secont part of that clause). There also is no "separation of church and state" in the Constitution. I know the origin of the belief but it does not exist within the Constitution.
I read a lot of hostility here toward our presence in Iraq and now with a Marine practicing his faith. I don't read a lot here about the outrageous acts of islam against Christians. Islam will convert or kill anyone not islamic. Where is the outrage? This is exactly within the Bill of Rights. It is not creating a religious conflict.

i'd rather get a coin with scripture on it than no choice at all, i bet the same people who have a problem with this are against censorship on tv or the net, isn't your argument that everyone should have a choice? I'd be concerned if soldiers were shoving guns down peoples throats and forcing them to say they believe something...

Christianity says - assurance of getting into heaven comes by personal faith, no actions by us because the action was done by Christ... just our faith

Islam - you can only have assurance by martyrdom - i.e suicide bombing

key words: assurance

don't get me wrong, people mess up religions, but if you read the text instead of being told what the text says... the above is what you'll get.

i wonder why mrpibb19 is spreading his conservative one way view propaganda, yet his icon is a banksy artwork...

that would be like al gore driving a hummer or ghandi selling guns.

Either way to the topic, i must say it is disgusting people should keep their religions to themselves, all its going to do is piss people off.

Plus i do believe that Osama said once that the only way they would stop fighting is if all westerners turned muslim. Well if im right on that then this soldier (and others like him) have turned into what they are fighting, soldiers fighting for what they believe in who want to force their views onto others.

Anglcazn, your point is well taken, it can only force us to look at what is really going on with war. Also when things like this surface, we should look at the things that are mixed in our behavior...ie religion and world donination...could you see the great world religious leaders preaching faith in the Divine and then say "Oh by the way...our political view is best and you should follow it" of course not...so why go on a political mission and then say "Oh by the way...our belief system is best and you should follow it also" I guess it depends on which side of the rifle your on.

Eunoia, what a beautiful response, thank you for thinking so courageously.

To person 19. regarding the muslim extremist...quote change...before I would go there...isn't it a little extreme what we are doing over there...if it all was okay with the people than why are they upset over the issue anyway?

To the soldier should be punished person...He was just doing what he believed he should do...I think before he is spoken to...we as an american public should be punished for an unjustified aggression on a country, no matter how "evil"...we will not get away from the KARMA of killing over a million people for whatever the real reason is we went there...

To the flying airplanes into building person...the verdict is still out as to who took out the 9 1 1 towers...remember the Zeitgeist movie?

The problem with the situation is not that the soldier was sharing his faith but rather it is hard to accept salvation from someone carrying a gun...the soldier is pressed into service for what the gov't wants...he has the obligation to spread the Truth of God also...my point is that to mix the two is not congruent unless the reason he picked up the "weapon of slaughter" was to share the gospel of God. He seems to have a divided mind...the two should be separated or the two should be one...I would guess that since he is receiving a gov't paycheck...he should stick with that protocal...if he was there on a "faith walk" and God was supplying his needs...by all means...share your faith...the two can not be justified.

I am shocked that so many people are shocked about this... is it not the American way to impose its beliefs on others. Plus, separation of church and state, right... if that is true the Republicans would not have been in power as they marched around the country denouncing the Godless Democrats.

Just great! It truly worked out for Native Americans in the United States. What needs to be done is use the money we spend on bombs and guns and rebuild schools and hospitals. The Christian faith will do nothing for Iraqis just like it did nothing but nearly destroy indigenous Native American cultures. How hypocritical of this soldier to be spreading his propaganda while holding guns and wearing a uniform from a country that has ripped Iraq apart for its oil.

This is not common. It's isolated.

Why is this post at th bottom of the heap with so many views and responses!

This tends to happen when one country is in another. I'm not justifying it but that usually happens. The only one that I know that did not force religion was Alexander the Great from Macedonia.

I think the most disturbing part of everything I have just read is the number of responses from people who think this isn't a problem.

The greatest conflicts the world has ever known have been over religion. God hasn't stepped down yet and said to any victorious group: "Thanks for sticking up for me and slaughtering all those people. I really needed your help back there." Nor has this "god" of yours thanked anyone for pushing his chosen religion on an oppressed group.

How could you think that as an oppressive force it would be a good idea to align yourself with a religion (particularly a different one than that of the people whose country you are occupying) more than you already are?

The thing is, we don't run planes into buildings if they don't convert.

The fact that people are suprised at this is proof of how far we have not come...are there any other things which are happening around the world that we also would be suprised at? There is more to be gained from simple observation of such things...we kill, we destroy and then testify of our "Lords" sacrifice and salvation...and we wonder at people's hatred and distain for what we believe and cram down thier throats without remorse///

And no, the american way isn't always the better way. But if we see unwarranted suffering in other cultures, is it ok to stand by and watch? or not? make a decision, you can't want to go to Darfur but not want to help people with the better parts of your culture.

why would you deny what you truly feel inside?

I believe in a god, not just through feelings.

First off all, the Big Bang happened. Evolution happened. It's true. But what created the Big Bang? or the convoluted process of evolution? How did life actually start? Logically, something or someone started it.

i wish we could all live our lives without religion. it causes too much turmoil, but people are happier 'knowing' theyll go to heaven through whatever religion they choose, rather than try and be comfortable with the uncertainty of whats going to happen after you die.

true devil mentality right there combining the ideology of war with religion. no better than some of the ideologies some of the people in that part of the world have.

Of course America always has a better way and it is always the right way. When will we realize our way isn't the only way?

think about it , if a guy actually does convert to x-anity , and then you kill him later , you can at least say to yourself "well , he's going to heaven , as he was saved before i shot him "

Just what the church has been doing for centuries, saying "this is what to have faith in" and "if you don't you will perish" instead of embracing a culture and its ideas they seek to purge it.

I don't see anything wrong with this. People aren't concerned by the fact that the Iraqis are trying to be converted. This kind of "crusade" happens all over the world, it's called "missionary work." All people are concerned with is that these are soldiers that are "witnessing." That soldier who gave the coin was probably just as devout as any "missionary" that went to any country. For that, I can't fault him/her.

w. always said it was a crusade...i guess this is the 1 thing he wasn't lying about.

wow, I cannot believe this! pressing their own religion upon others! outrageous.

I can only imagine what it's like to be the recipient of a coin - "Where will you spend eternity?"- given to you by a man with a rifle at a checkpoint. It's a threat to your body and soul but certainly not a peaceful gesture.

leave it alone, if it ain't broke don't fix it

This is so common it shouldn't even be a story... Mission trips everywhere give the poor food, shelter and then try to convert the to Christianity... In San Jose CA at a Muslim holiday event, thousands of Muslims were handed packets skewing and altering their own faith and incorporating Jesus into... They were translated into all kinds of languages, used the word "Allah" but just through in Jesus as the son of God... It was almost like trying to trick people into converting...

That is just Anglo-Saxon superority rearing its ugly head. They feel they must civilize the savages. We did the same thing with the indians, they are of a different culture so they must conform or be destroyed. Old institutions...

That soldier needs to be reprimanded. that's the kind of thing that starts an international incident these days.

Well I'm glad you two actually responded to my post instead of flaming it...

My opinion is this. The middle-eastern christians have been persecuted for centuries. I have a friend who lived in Saudi Arabia. They arrested his parents for possessing a bible. Giving a coin representing Chrisianity is harmless.

Maybe the behavior was out of line, but the reaction to this was just plain ridiculous.

The mayans didn't die from Christianity, they died from cruel conquistadores and smallpox.

"This soldier is attempting to PEACEFULLY SPREAD ...."

A soldier in uniform has no business acting as a missionary trying to spread his religion.

Oh boy.
I'm mean there are some Christians in the Middle East (the religion did start there after all) but this is just not going to help the image of Westerners at all. Also, didn't something similar happen around the 1500s with Spanish priests in South America? How them Mayans doing these days?

are you serious? This soldier is attempting to PEACEFULLY SPREAD an inherently nonviolent religion!

In Islam, you can NEVER LEAVE the religion! If you do, Muslim law calls for you to die in various painful ways.
Get a grip on reality.

Its all fun and games until the little kid you had given a mini bible shows up with his head chopped off! Guess it is o.k. because he went to heaven!

I'm glad the soldier was yanked... Proselytizing of any sort from any religion makes me sick. The worst atrocities in history were done in the name of god. Believe what you want, but realize other people have the same right, and all religions are just ways humans have devised to make sense of the world around them. Shoving "your" version down someone else's throat accomplishes NOTHING.

"You will except Jesus Christ as your lord and savior or else all you little savages are destined for the depths of hell!"

well there goes freedom of religion and the rest of the Bill of Rights. COMMUNISTS!

Update - According to my morning paper, the offending marine was identified and removed from duty.

This is insanity! There is enough bloodshed and hatred aimed towards our troops without our trying to impose a religion on them. How does that solve anything? Those people don't want another religion. They are willing to bomb and kill one another just to prove that their version of Islam is correct. I say we leave them be and just bring our troops home.

Well, the Commander-In-Chief did say "This CRUSADE... is going to take a while."

It is certainly not the proper place for the US military to be trying to convert anyone and most assuredly not the inhabitants of occupied territory1

Why? This is rediculus

Disgusting.
Same as they did to the Native Americans and our family.
My grandfather was ripped away from our family at the age of 5 and marched around the Russian countryside in an effort to convert him to Christianity. This makes me sick..to convert to any religion..very very sick. We didn't know about this when we were growing up and always remarked at how he was a handsome man and a good father but he always had a sad face in his pictures.

We cannot condone such behavior, this breaks everything this nation stands for, including the Separation of church and state.

Not surprising.

Neo-cons have created a fundamentalist and violent version of Christianity. They support the people who say that we are in a Christian war to abolish Islam.

End the culture war, do not vote for neo-cons or support any of their organizations. Let the world know that we as freedom loving Americans do not support this.

I knew they would start doing this.

All that's going on is modern day crusades.