Community | June 11, 2008 | 66 comments

"90% of Americans will pay less income tax under Obama than McCain"

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lemonsun12
"Today, CNN posted an article online summarizing the Tax Policy center's report comparing John McCain and Barack Obama's proposed tax plans. It is available here. The numbers are remarkable, but CNN failes to notice the obvious punchline: more than 85% of Americans will pay less in taxes under Obama than McCain."
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66 comments // "90% of Americans will pay less income tax under Obama than McCain"

  • WriterWriter
  • dkutch
    • 0
      dkutch  
    • the polemic here is appalling. the income tax is just one of many taxes. if you own a home, a business, or any stocks... if your parents die... if you win a reward in a lawsuit... any time you have an opportunity to earn capital through sale of goods you will pay higher fees. al gore founded this network, and despite its potential and funding, it seems that most of its viewers fail to think critically bc they so despise george w bush. it is logically fallacious to indelibly attach the man and the policy apparatus that is john mccain to the action of the current administration. In the U.S. there are only two parties to represent a massive and diverse plethora of policy approaches. it looks like most of y'all just can't seem to see through that and force yourselves despise anything taking the label "Republican." It might be wise to reconsider. Lots of Republicans hate Bush and want change too, and they see that through McCain. Everyone flip flops guys, Obama too!

    • 3 years ago
  • caline
    • 0
      caline  
    • dkutch:

      Besides the U.S., I have also lived in France and Italy. Italy is a country where corruption is extremely present at all levels of government, and therefore, though they pay a lot of taxes, the level of services is not great. However, France has higher taxes than the U.S., yes, but the services the government provides are much better. Everyone is guaranteed health care, and--gasp--the health care is actually GOOD. I always got more than adequate medical care when I was there. There are not the huge disparities we have here among schools in rich neighborhoods and poor neighborhoods. Everything is taxed there, too--much more so than here--but in my opinion, and in my experience, it works. You get what you pay for. Unfortunately, the middle class in America pay for much more than they get. I feel that sharply now as a public school teacher. I pay a lot out in taxes, but what do I get in return? Schools are underfunded. The roads are a nightmare. Health care benefits go only to the very poorest; meanwhile, many of my friends, including my boyfriend, cannot afford health insurance, and of course, their employers are not offering it, because they don't have to. We are the only country in the western world that does not guarantee its citizens basic health care! Just as we are the only fully developed nation that still has and uses the death penalty. The current administration has taken us backward in every arena. We are going straight to the Middle Ages in an SUV!!!

    • 3 years ago
  • histoplasmosis
    • 0
      histoplasmosis  
    • Wow I just about have given up hope for current. Especially now that articles from dailykos and other left wing nut jobs are getting posted regularly. I had high hopes that the station could show both sides. Oh well we all can't do are own research aparently either judging on this article.

    • 3 years ago
  • lifestudentno83
  • sk8bs55
    • 0
      sk8bs55  
    • The republicans of today are nothing like they used to be. As it turns out, all the republicans of yesteryear were actually still in it for the little guy. However, what happened was the republicans of old developed their small business into big business and their big business into corporate giant empires that span the globe.

      No matter how well meant they were to begin with, somewhere along the line they lost sight of their ideals; all of which in turn where inevitably replaced with short term business ventures for monetary gains and were quickly consumed by greed shortly there after.

      What ever happened to laissez-faire? Oh wait, I know. It killed culture by allowing big business to crush the economy: big oil & gas finding loopholes, offshore bank accounts, lobbyists, earmarks, hedge funds, taking big tax breaks, charging more for considerably less, denying small stores the right to proliferate in a free market society the way that they once did. I am quite certain that the little guy on the old tarnished piece of copper we often neglect and kick to the curb would not approve.

    • 3 years ago
  • PatrioticAstronaut
    • 0
      PatrioticAstronaut  
    • The fucking liberals on this site piss me off!
      Fuck Democrats and Republicans!
      I don't want to expand warfare or welfare.
      You liberal fucktards are to stupid to support a real candidate, like Ron Paul.

      Fuck McCain + Obama

    • 3 years ago
  • AnemicElitist
  • PatrioticAstronaut
    • 0
      PatrioticAstronaut  
    • PatrioticAstronaut:

      Hey, "Anemic Elitist", I'd be glad to debate you on any issue involving American politics. Now, I don't know you, but I'm sure, that your current opinions have been developed whole-heartedly, but are inevitably risen from ignorance, and derived from arrogance. My apparent struggle with political orientation has endowed me with an obscured, but thoughtful point of view. I like to consider myself an "optimistic realist". Reaching this self described "epiphany-like" mental status, enables me to adopt libertarian principles.

    • 3 years ago
  • belgianbronco
  • Neghie
    • 0
      Neghie  
    • PatrioticAstronaut:

      I just wanted to say...you have a dirty mouth. I can't even pay attention to what you're saying. I like that you have this different point of view and would even like to hear more if it weren't for all the insults. It's like me going on Fox and riddling them with hate messages. Try using honey next time.

    • 3 years ago
  • clayjj05
    • 0
      clayjj05 [removed]  
    • If you make less than 60k you barely pay any taxes. The people making between 100k and 300k are the people most unfarily taxed.

      The idea that 10 pct of americans pay 90 pct of tax is disgraceful. We should abolish income tax and bump sales tax to around 15% Then everyone would pay what t hey could. The rich would still be taxed more it would just be more fair. Everyone should pay the exact same %

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • clayjj05:

      The thing I would worry about in your scenario is a backlash against industry and the free market due to sales prices that are too high.

      That said, in the interest of friendly debate, what would you think of a system in which there is no income tax and only, say, 3% sales tax, but pretty much everything else is taxed at 1-2% across the board?

    • 3 years ago
  • riverdeer
  • clayjj05
    • 0
      clayjj05 [removed]  
    • clayjj05:

      Allsunday im open for anything other than the income tax BS. Im tired of working from January to Arpil knowing that it's all going to wasteful government spending.

      I could really use the 4 months of pay, because river i dont make 300k.

    • 3 years ago
  • caline
    • 0
      caline  
    • clayjj05:

      I truly resent being told that because I make less than 60K, I pay hardly any taxes at all. That's not true. I am a public school teacher--educating America's future--though I could be making considerably more if I were to go sell my soul to work for corporate America. I make about 41K and I am already paying close to 15% of my income in taxes, soc. sec., etc. As it is, I just barely scrape by month to month. If we were to give further tax breaks to the rich, my share would have to go up--since Bush has us significantly in deficit, thanks to his war for oil and world domination. Last I heard, those rich in the corporate world and the oil barons have not had their houses foreclosed on because the taxes so unfairly burdened them that they could not afford them anymore. Well, guess what: it IS happening to middle class Americans. The average middle class American works just as hard, or harder, than these CEOs, yet they can barely afford to live in a big city anymore. Is THAT fair? You tell me.

      I repeat: I resent being told I pay "hardly any taxes." The taxes take a huge bite out of ever paycheck of mine, but I don't complain about it; I am paying my due. If I were making a lot more, I'd be happy to contribute my due part. I think everyone in society being a little better off helps society to be a lot better off in the long run. Division between the haves and the have-nots is the historic maker of war and ruin.

    • 3 years ago
  • shelchak
    • 0
      shelchak  
    • Interesting idea, pressrecord -- but wouldn't that cause corporations to give even more millions to their top execs, or to hide it in offshore accounts, in order to reduce their 'profits'???

      IMO, wages above a million dollars could be seen as 'profits', since they're basically payoffs of privilege.

    • 3 years ago
  • pressrecord
    • 0
      pressrecord  
    • shelchak:

      that's a good point. but, to do so would be embezzlement and would open the company up for civil prosecution?? if we adjust our tax system, so should our definition of 'tax evasion.' that way, we go after the real f**kers and not the common people. ('common' as in the regular working class)

    • 3 years ago
  • pressrecord
    • 0
      pressrecord  
    • from what i know, income tax (should) only apply to profits, not wages and labor, which means corporations are the ones that should be paying federal taxes, not the common people. somehow, we've all been duped by the federal reserve and IRS, which are both privately owned by the world bank.

      we should abolish income tax on wages/labor all together and tax profits instead. toll tax highways for infrastructure. tax gas if you drive. tax tuition if you want institutional schooling, and so on.

      i really think we should keep what we earn then pay tax on profits and privileges. what do you think?

    • 3 years ago
  • Betico
  • belgianbronco
  • Sylvie1986
  • UrbanBlog
    • 0
      UrbanBlog  
    • Rich people pay the lions share of the taxes in the US.
      They don't just the most money,they pay the largest percentage of their income.

      Then again they have a lot more money.

      In fact the real difference in wealth is not seen by compairing the yearly income of the to top 10% and the bottom 10%- its when you compare the "NET WORTH" of those two groups. The net worth difference is more than `10 times as great as the inclome difference.

    • 3 years ago
  • PatrickEdwardMurray
    • 0
      PatrickEdwardMurray  
    • No one here probably remembers this but in the
      1970's if you earned over a certain amount you had to pay "Maxtax" which was around 50% of your income.

      Since that time, very wealthy folks have gotten several cuts in the percentage that they pay.

      And of course, for the last almost 8 years, they have been getting something called Tax cuts which is really just a short term for:

      PUBLIC WELFARE FOR RICH PEOPLE!

      I think it's time for these folks to PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE!

    • 3 years ago
  • Egnatius212
  • diabolical44
    • 0
      diabolical44  
    • we need a switch to a consumption based tax plan. Income tax is unconstitutional. We are penalizing Americans for working. Comsumption based taxes like the ones used in European nations make alot more sense.

      And if we really must have an income tax, let's make sure that no matter how much money you earn you pay exactly the same percentage of your income. It's absolutely ludicrous that there is a cap on the income tax for people making millions and millions of dollars. Come on, if you make millions, give some to the government and buy one less limo.

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • diabolical44:

      I agree that income tax is unconstitutional. I like the idea of having consumption-based tax that's 1% across the board. If everything we buy or consume is taxed at 1%, we won't individually feel the burden of taxation but it adds up to a lot of money for the government in the end.

    • 3 years ago
  • caline
    • 0
      caline  
    • diabolical44:

      Your numbers don't make sense. And first of all, that is not accurate information. European countries have very heavy income taxes, far heavier than the U.S.--that's how they afford to offer the services they do. They would never be able to (and we wouldn't, either) afford public education, universal health care, infrastructure, etc., from a 1% sales tax! If that were really possible, don't you think we'd have it in place already? There is nothing unconstitutional about an income tax, nor are Americans being penalized for working. If you are paying more income taxes, it means you are making more money, pure and simple. If you're paying less, you're not exactly living high on the hog, unless you're living off illegal activities, which presumably will catch up with you sooner or later.

      Sales taxes hurt the poor and middle classes disproportionately, because they tax the basic necessities, like food, which no one can live without. Sure, if you make 70K, it won't hurt you much to pay an extra couple of dollars in taxes when you check out at the grocery, but when you're counting every penny, it will.

      Income taxes are both constitutional and fair! I just wish we public school teachers could ever hope to fall into one of those super-high tax brackets! That would mean that we were actually getting paid for our work!

    • 3 years ago
  • cerealforeal
  • JanforGore
    • 0
      JanforGore  
    • So how will that coincide with higher food prices, gas prices, and healthcare costs? Pay less in taxes, put it somewhere else anyway seems to be the American way. I'll believe it when I see it.

    • 3 years ago
  • rebot
  • menmykoko
    • 0
      menmykoko  
    • The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Everybody should pay taxes to maintain the infrastucture, schools, roads, etc. I don't agree at all with that taxing big businesses would make them move overseas---THEY ALREADY OUTSOURCE NOW. Almost anywhere you go you will find "made in china, made in india" on the bottom of a product. Many service phone calls you make, the other person speaks broken english because they are in another country. Our jobs are already being taken away because the NAFTA free trade agreement allows china made products to come to america without paying any dues. Thus allowing companies like Walmart and others to lower the prices even more, and in so doing preventing american companies here from being able to compete with prices.

      Sephigs comments are absurd:.
      To say that the rich pay ten times more than the poor is just that. However, they earn 10,0000 times more so where is the logic. Also, I pay 25%--30% and they pay around 10%. It is not consistent and clearly favors the rich. Why should they pay a lower percentage of income because they earn more? Especially when they are making the money out of the pockets of the poorer people.

    • 3 years ago
  • MomShouldlTrustDaGov
  • erenaud
    • 0
      erenaud  
    • Right now, those in the top 10% of earnings pay 65% of the American tax burden, and you think that's unfair, and that they should pay more. The bottom 50% pay 4%, and THEY are somehow being screwed?

      I'm fortunate to be in the top 10%, but I hardly think I'm screwing anyone over when I pay 65% of the tax burden.

      I first supported HRC for president, right up until she 'misbehaved' - 'nuff said. Then I supported, and still support Obama. But if the lynchpin of his economic policies are going to be taxing the rich, he'll find himself in trouble with most moderates and Obamicans.

      It isn't right for any government to forcibly extract one's dollars from them purely because they were good at earning it. Enough with all the "tax the wealthy" and "it doesn't matter because it's just the top 1%" talk.

    • 3 years ago
  • barkway
  • barkway
  • charleskaj
    • 0
      charleskaj  
    • republicans`are notorious for hidden taxes it will look like
      they care and bam!!! they will be taking away money from the elderly or the handicapped to offset one of their
      screw up's i believe as a general rule all politicans try to screw the disinfranchised people when they can because they don't fall under the same rules as everybody else their healthcare etc. is done differently
      republicans always talk about no new taxes,but on all tese bils you will find things tacked on to generate revenue that are taxes but generally off the backs of the people that can't afford to pay them

    • 3 years ago
  • barkway
    • 0
      barkway  
    • It's an old Republican ploy...as old as dirt, to try to deter Americans from voting Democrat by telling them the Dems will raise their taxes. Unfortunately, it usually works.
      The fact is that the Republican Party exists to serve corporate America and the wealthy. They bamboozle the average voter with fears of taxes rising, gays marrying, and abortion run amuck (and this too usually works)
      Obama's proposed tax changes would only effect the top 1% in income (the wealthy). Hopefully this year, Americans will get smarter about not falling for the politics of fear and deception.

    • 3 years ago
  • BigME413
    • 0
      BigME413  
    • It is really interesting to see that the anti-tax Republican would help less people with their policies, although I wonder where the numbers would come out if they factored in "capitol gains" taxes and the like. Although my suspicion is that low-income Americans don't have much money invested. However, I'm sure Republicans would argue that their policies will stimulate the economy more- remember "trickle down economics"?

    • 3 years ago
  • MissAmanda
  • Marilynn_Murray
  • erenaud
    • 0
      erenaud  
    • Seen this one?

      Ten friends go to dinner in a restaurant, all of them Americans. The bill comes. One is expected to pay 65% of the bill, even though they ate no more than anyone else. The next four each pay roughly 8% of the bill, and also, they had no more than anyone else at the table. The remaining 5 people who also ate the same amount each pay less than 1% of the bill.

      This meal happens every day, and even though those last 5 are paying much less than they others, they begin complaining that the others aren't paying enough. They think the first five should be paying more, even though everyone is eating the same amount. They especially think 65%-guy needs to be paying much more, because 65% is simply not enough. 65%-guy has been paying this much or more of the bill for decades now, and like the others, would like his/her share of the bill to go down.

      The crowd, however, each gets an equal vote, and they hope to raise 65%-guy/gal's portion of the bill closer to 70%. Sooner or later, 65%-guy will get enough of all of this, and decide to take their business elsewhere, and then what will happen when the bill comes?

      I get really frustrated when people spout off about 65% guy not paying his 'fair share' when the history, the math and the facts simply don't back that up.

    • 3 years ago
  • J_Jammer
  • pressrecord
    • 0
      pressrecord  
    • erenaud:

      how about this one:

      5 americans sit in a booth at a diner. collectively, they can afford to order a whole pie. when the pie arrives, they slice it in 4 parts. 1 takes 3 slices, 2 split the last slice, and the rest split the crumbs. when the bill arrives, should they still pay the same?

    • 3 years ago
  • shelchak
  • J_Jammer
  • CarolynGillis
  • J_Jammer
    • 0
      J_Jammer [removed]  
    • J_Jammer:

      That is a decent example of why you'd say what you have to say, but for most countries that don't tag MADE IN THE USA they get paid the amount that is average for that area. Why should they have to pay more because we get paid more?

      Some places in India they only get 3 dollars a day for the jobs they do and that's work for Indian businesses.

    • 3 years ago
  • Marilynn_Murray
    • 0
      Marilynn_Murray  
    • Did the price go down on any of their goods when they moved out and started paying slave wages? No, it did not. Charge them for what it would cost to manufacture it here and it won't go up past what it's value is or it won't sell. Simple, it worked for years.

    • 3 years ago
  • erenaud
    • 0
      erenaud  
    • Bad news guys... higher corporate taxes mean higher prices for goods. It will NOT mean lower salaries for executives or lower profits for companies. Sorry. Charge them all you want, but then prepare to pay a lot more for everything you buy.

    • 3 years ago
  • Marilynn_Murray
    • 0
      Marilynn_Murray  
    • Great idea Jammer. We would be taxed on every dime we earn because it takes every dime to live, and the rich could go scot free on their riches. Good thinking.

    • 3 years ago
  • J_Jammer
  • Marilynn_Murray
  • J_Jammer
  • J_Jammer
    • 0
      J_Jammer [removed]  
    • I think the IRS should just go away and we'd pay far less period.

      This idea that there would be a flat tax making anyone who paid for goods and services would be awesome. That way those that complain about illegals (I'll call them whatever I want if people can go around calling Bush worse, at least mine is factual) will stop because if they buy something they'll be paying the alloted tax. Plus without the cost of the IRS doing taxes the Government would most likely get more money and no one can really cheat that.

      Who, right now, can say they cheat paying sales tax? You don't pay the total you don't get the stuff.

    • 3 years ago
  • CarolynGillis
    • 0
      CarolynGillis  
    • Precisely MM!
      Their slave labor manufacturing practices will dry up if we charge them dearly for their misdeeds.
      It's too bad tears don't stain..they would not be able to sell their slave produced garments if they did.

    • 3 years ago
  • Marilynn_Murray
    • 0
      Marilynn_Murray  
    • The Democrats will have to be tax and pay the astronomical Republican debt. Corporations should pay their fair share of taxes they use our infrastructure too. If they want to gather up and move out of the country taking the jobs with them let them go. Just make sure there are tariffs reinstated so when they try to bring their foreign made crap back in they are taxed to make up for the low outside wages. When things get tough for them don't afford them protection American companies enjoy. Someone that is not so greedy will take up the slack and see the benefits of starting a company and making the stuff here and employing Americans to make it. Honda and Toyota make cars here.

    • 3 years ago
  • CarolynGillis
    • 0
      CarolynGillis  
    • It sickens me to hear the BS about how Democrats are tax and spend..
      These Neocons are such artists...real Neo-"con" artists.
      They tell people this line of crap about taxes as a distraction while they are stealing the US Treasury...I just heard Carly Fiorina HP former CEO talking about that..how McCain is good because Dem's want to tax everything..sounds reasonable but it's such garbage...our grandchildren will be paying for this. We are to blame for sleeping on the job...I just hope they don't suffer too much for our ignorance and laziness.

    • 3 years ago
  • clayjj05
  • Marilynn_Murray
  • sephig
    • 0
      sephig  
    • Image
    • I know people complain about the rich not paying there fair share of taxes but the top 1% of gross income tax payers in the U.S. actually pay 10 times the amount of taxes that the bottom 50% pay. if you fall in the middle to lower income tax brackets your only contributing roughly 4% of the income taxes paid the other 96% comes from the upper income tax payers . some of the taxes that obama is supporting would hurt big buisness and that would hurt the job market in the U.S. we are in a global market these companies can move there buisnesses to other countries where they can find cheaper labor and taxes . thats what would really hurt the U.S. keeeping corprate taxes low keeps these buisnesses competitive in the global market which helps the middle class

    • 3 years ago
  • Marilynn_Murray
  • KING_ASOM
    • 0
      KING_ASOM  
    • Marilynn_Murray:

      Yo i'm hearing what your saying but are you? You saying that these people at the top would be so hurt if they had to pay more in taxes? People who make 100 million dollars a year, for owning some company, who's salary over 5 years could give America Universal Health Care for 10 years, or could help lower rent and mortgages to stop all of these foreclosures and mass homelessness in America especially in cities like Los Angeles.
      And if these Tycoons shared more of the wealth then the people at the bottom wouldn't be at the bottom and could contribute more to society, I mean you can only give what you have.
      Your numbers in your statement are all so true and that's what's wrong with America, hopefully under Obama's new plan things will even out, and for once things will be fair.

    • 3 years ago
  • PoisonTheMonkey
    • 0
      PoisonTheMonkey  
    • It's sad that the people of America ever believed the Republican lies about tax cuts actually applying to them. And now here we finally have a presidential candidate fighting for the little guy. Let's hope the little guy notices.

    • 3 years ago
  • tinman13
    • 0
      tinman13  
    • No shit, why would a Republican help the little guy when corporate America is in their back pocket? Before McCain ditched what he really believed he might have sided with the little guy before he was running for president, but now he needs the "elite" (wealthy) vote.

    • 3 years ago
  • SashimiMark
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