College degree doesn't pay?

i just graduated.. and let's say that it's not easy finding a job. i have been outta school for about 7 months, and i've worked about two weeks in that time. =[

Smoked a lot of weed.
I know roofers that make more than my lawyer.

Their in better shape and have great tans.

I am a 34 year old mother of two (ages 2 and 7) and a senior in the Anthropology program at Portland State University. I am looking at a 5-digit debt when I graduate with a Bachelor's, before even starting the graduate program. I'm sure that I may have qualified for scholarships, but having to work 40 hours to support a family while taking a 15 credit classload in order to graduate on time prohibited me from writing the endless essays just to compete for them.
When I started school, this was the only way I could see supporting my family and preparing my children for college, which will be astronmical in price unless something catastrophic happens in the next ten years. Now, I'm left wondering if I made the right decision?

tomofnorthcal,
I agree it is worth it to find an economical University! I just graduated from Humboldt State, a very economical school, and before that I took my time at community college doing all my lower division stuff. Community college was pretty much free to me here in California, because I came from a lower income immigrant family. HSU was reasonable too and the cost of living is lower then most of CA in Arcata. My debt is low and I hope to pay all my loans back in the next 2-3 years.
My friends mom when to college for free and got a BS in nursing along time ago, before the Regan daze. It must have been nice to graduate debt free. This is not the case for many of us these days.
I feel that this issue keeps the gap between the well to do and the poor broad. The govenators tax cut plan is widening the gap even more!
If the military purchased a few less bombs and that $ was put towards education, it would make such a big difference in many people lives.

We used to have free to low cost college in the USA before Reagan took office. To anyone who is young, don't spend your life paying off your college debt. Find an economical college and take more time getting the degree while staying out of debt. Why? Otherwise you are an indentured servant and a slave to the system. Paying a $100,000 for a 4 year degree does not make economical sense. In fact, go over seas to get your 4 year degree. It will be cheaper and may be free. BTW: does anyone know where I can get a degree in history? I heard the Bush Admin outlawed it.

My mom always said "your education is something that no one can take from you and is a evaluable experience." I just graduated, after 4 years at a community college (AA) and 3 at a university (BS), and I just was hired to work for the state, with a salary and benefits...
I have been working since I was 16, while going to school, and I have never been offered such a good deal. I am not going to be rich, but I will be able to live a comfortable life, and have a meaningful career, a job that I like...
I think you have the potential to do what ever you set your mind to do, but first you gotta know what it is you want. The college experience can help some figure that out.
Even if you don't make a lot of $, society can benefit from a more educated public. $ isn't everything after all.
I don't like that we have to get into so much debt to get a degree, it def. detours some from going to college, but in my experience it is worth it.
Would be nice to not have student loan debt though ;)

Find a niche, do what you love, stay connected to good people, and life will reflect what you make of it. If college is spent partying and not learning then why should someone 'deserve' to be paid a large salary?

I honestly believe a bachelors degree will help get you an interview. Much in the same way a VIP pass will get you backstage at a concert. And I believe that both have about the same value.

ivxx,
We are not paying post-secondary teachers too much.
Median annual earnings of all postsecondary teachers in 2006 were $56,120. Fields requiring similar training are as follows:
salaried public relations specialists: $47,350
salaried writers and authors: $48,640
principal of high school: $92,965
principal of elementary school: $67,735
wage and salary management analysts: $68,050

Stats reflect 2006 data and are issued via http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos066.htm (scroll down and you can follow the links I've chosen for the salaries I've stated).

In regards to people having terrible experiences at school, don't forget there are people out there who have positive ones too. I've been to two different small, liberal arts colleges (Catawba College, Guilford College) where students are periodically invited over professors' houses.

And don't forget, a college grad still earns 75% more than a high school grad. Of course a college degree is not earning post-students as much as it used to- now, most of the middle class can afford to get a degree.

There are still people who believe that a degree is more than just a glorified piece of paper with ink & a photocopied signature on it?

Americans really are dumber than even I thought, and I've been pretty harsh when it comes to how retarded we Americans seem to be.

I think the problem is that it's too easy to get a degree in something. Sure it'll require "some" work (mostly time), butmany of the institutions where you can get one are overrated or underrated. Locally, a community college or low tier university can be praised, but away from it, the value of that degree drops significantly.

I think the problem with America goes far beyond education.

Morals are the run. Laziness is rampant. Religion is fading. Obesity is on the rise. Divorce is a trend. Gas is the new gold. Debt is a way of life. Etc...

We have become a fat, greedy, lazy, narcissistic, self-induging society. We want everything bigger, faster, and better. And we want it now. That is the America we have become, sadly enough.

If education is the key... why isn't it free?

College SHOULD be about furthering your education and knowledge of the world, but unfortunately it has become viewed as simply a training ground for the corporate world.

Now nearly everyone goes to college after high school, when it used to be only those who were serious about advancing themselves intellectually. It makes sense that having a degree is no longer synonymous with being better educated and better able to handle yourself in the real world.

That being said, I'm halfway through completing my BA, and I'm terrified of trying to get a job.

In my opinion a college degree not paying off directly relates to the quality of hte education given by the school and the willingness of the student to embrace it.

I had to take several math classes from my university, who shall remain unamed, but their initials are the university of utah, and the quality of the teaching was absolutly horrible across all the teachers. I spent most of the time teaching myself the things I didnt know because I wasnt learning them in class. WAY to many universities are happy to charge you through the nose and give you a sub standard education.

Also WAY to many student just glide through college. So many dont take it serious, I found it easy to beat the classes that were graded on the bell curve. We as americans take our education for granted.

Here is an idea. Maybe if we wernt paying teachers pennies for performing a vital function and we actually paid them something we could get some competativeness in the educational market. Pay teachers more and the better teachers will float to the top. Smart people dont go into teaching because they cant put food on the table doing it.

There is a reason they say "those who cant, teach".

This just shows how the old saying if it does not support the military industrial complex or corporate greed it is outdated.

All societies have procedures for selecting who will occupy important positions/occupations.
The use of credentials characterizes our system of social selection, and our worship of them has created the following problems:

an artificial demand for education, artificial restraints to learning, the overlooking of obsolescence, artificial social classes, and the myth of a well educated nation (yes, most of ya'll are mediocre).

Solve an aspect of America's unemployment problem by abandoning the use of credentials and evaluate actual job performance; or combine educational equivalencies with the prior so that persons could be judged according to a wide range of accomplishments and attributes.

Nepotism, alumni favoritism, to say it frankly, is bullshit. Presidents of this nation for the past thirty years have shared alumni, are related or graduated from the same selective prestigious universities that only recently placed emphasis on minority enrollment and retention.

Yale - Bush(s), Kerry, Cheney, Clinton(s), Lieberman and Ashcroft

Harvard - Kennedy(s), Reagan, Carter and lets not forget everyones favorite token negro (yea, i said it) Obama.

A good ol' boy club. America at its finest.

BUk down babylon!!!

People seem to be missing a major aspect of college, personal growth. While in college, you are exposed to ideas and people and surroundings that are almost entirely unique to that environment.

I think our culture is heading into a bad direction, and this is just another brick in the wall. 25% of college is job preparation, the other 75% is just learning to be a being of reason.

The IT sector has a very high proportion of skilled graduate and post graduate workers and competition is high. A bachelors degree may nowadays get you an interview - heck higher degrees are not a guarantee of an interview these days.

I mastered beer-pong. How far is tthat gonna get me

I hate to disagree. I have a college degree and currently working in the healthcare field. I'm no millionaire but at least I'm fortunate that I'm still able to pay my bills and live the lifestyle that I want. A frugal lifestyle.

Yeah, it all depends on the degree. See the "most useless degrees" post. I have a bachelors in one of the "useless" ones, or close to it and I work at a company where people with barely a HS education have the same title as me and I probably get paid ~$1 more than them - if that. But if computer science people are loosing jobs then I don't even know....

Sallie Mae is going to have my head on her mantle; I'll probably have to take out loans to do my Master's as well. But I know there need to be more Women of Color who not only have higher degrees but who teach and bring empowerment.

Ah yes, one more thing. Unfortunately our ancestors lived in a much different time and model of society. I often wish I could have just lived on my own farm like back in the day because I could have employed my myriad of talents towards directly building my farm and family. I would have had an amazingly badass farm, that's for sure, but things are different these days.

These days modern society requires that people take niche jobs and exchange their time and efforts for the goods and services of others.

This is where college comes in. It guides people into whatever specialty it is that they will most likely spend the rest of their life doing. This was a miserable prospect in my opinion, but it's just the way it is.

In America, the first thing someone asks you after your name is, "What do you do?".

Since that's the role college plays in beginning the specialization process, isn't it best to look at college from the "this is what I'm going to be doing my entire life" standpoint and justify all expenses to that end?

Indeed. Teaching one how to think is most important in a college education, but who you know and what you can do are even more critical nowadays.

Ironically you're preaching to the pastor.

I agree that life is much more than earning money and buying crap, which is why directly out of college I never took a job like all of my friends making good money doing boring crap and instead took the road less traveled to decide what I truly wanted to do with my life. (Still working on it btw but actually have a 40 hour a week job just to survive.)

The funny part is when I referenced the History Channel I had a sneaking suspicion you were a History or liberal arts major based on your outlook. The point was, whether you're learning your history from a $25,000 a year school or The History Channel, it is very likely that knowledge won't be worth much unless you can actually get a job with it.

Out of curiosity, what are your plans careerwise following graduation?

I am a firm believer in living life for the experience over just capitalist survival, but how does one justify the extremely dangerous expense of college unless it can save you from that debt later on?

Saladin, I think you and I agree that human life itself has value, intrinsically and that your net worth has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Knowledge and education can really enhance your life, I agree. Yet, there is so much to be learned outside of a classroom. And it is the capitalists who value "college education" as defined by the establishment/academia. While I went to college and very much enjoyed my time there, I have since gone on to learn so much more through real life experiences and relationships and through research into areas of interest that were not addressed in college. I am not anti-college education, yet I do believe that there are many truly enlightened, informed and educated people out there without one and that it is limiting to see it as the only way, or even the best way, for everyone.

i guess i should drop out then...

@ befuddler, not quite. I come from a middle class background, but my parents pay for less than half of my education. A good 1/3 of it comes from grants, another 1/3 from loans (not good, but what can you do) and the rest is supported by my parents and other members of my family.

But my answer to both of you, is that you've missed my point.

Genius, arguably you don't need ANYTHING to live your life. Our ancestors survived with little more than the knowledge of how to farm from a capitalistic point of view. Your definition of value is what brings in capital, don't you think there is a little more to life than owning property?

My point is that money is not -everything-. There is more to life than attaining capital and buying useless crap. Obviously money is a necessity to survive in our society, but living and surviving are two very different things.

And the internet is a resource for educating yourself, but it does not even come close to rivaling the academic institutions of the world in terms of education.

Also, stop watching the history channel, immediately. As a history major, I find that offensive. The channel is like the FOX news of history, total garbage 80% of the time.

My point is not so much that you *must* educate yourself, I am just trying to decry the capitalistic philosophy of life. A human life has value! Regardless of what job he has or what he knows!

By a capitalist viewpoint, people like Socrates had no value.

How much money you have or how good you are at software engineering should not define your worth as a human being.

Life is education. You don't need to go to college to learn something. These days the internet is worth it's weight in gold for acquiring knowledge.

What good is knowledge, much less paying for knowledge, unless it can be applied to something that has a return on investment?

What is the purpose of education unless there is a tangible benefit to it?

I love nothing more than sitting at home learning stuff from the History channel, but I unfortunately realize it is completely worthless. Since that knowledge can't be directly applied towards my financial survival in this capitalist society, and gaining that knowledge actually takes time away from acquiring knowledge that could be applied towards earning money, doesn't it stand to reason that an "education" is only valuable if it yields survival-type benefits?

College is more than job training in that it gives you a halfway point between living at home supported by mom and dad and the "real" world, but the only tangible benefit of college that justifies the expense is being able to convert that degree into paying for itself via a job utilizing the knowledge gained.

In theory at least.

Saladin, I assume then, by your comment, that you are lucky enough to be able to count yourself among those easily able to afford the luxury of college.

College is about MORE than just job training.

It's disgusting that so many people have such a capitalistic view of the world.

Just because something isn't physically useful doesn't mean that it doesn't have value.

Education is an essential part of human life.

A college degree is as useful as a high school diploma.

Wanna be a doctor? Give me 5 minutes, i'll print you a degree.....

College is fun if you can afford it. If you can't, and have to take out loans, you might want to think about a technical school.

College is worthwhile if you REALLY know what you want to do.

Beyond that it's just a learning experience that is expected these days. Not going to college was never an option for me. Of course I had to go to college, but had no idea what I wanted to study and ended up getting a hybrid engineering degree that I never used.

10 years later I'm the Marketing Director for a software company (after modeling, acting, having a nightclub, being a "pharmaceutical distributor", you name it) but I'm actually thinking about going back to school to get a degree in Radio and Television Performance instead, since I have finally discovered that is something I'm good at and actually interested in doing.

If you know what you want to do careerwise with your life, and go to school for that, then it's worth it. If you aren't sure what you want to do careerwise, then you'll ultimately just end up with an expensive piece of paper proving you can handle a minimal amount of information and discipline even if you spent the entire time scheduling your classes around drinking til 2 AM and watching Jerry Springer.

The degree certainly proves something, but if I had it to do all over again I wouldn't go to college until I figured out what I wanted to do with my life first. Additionally, I would have studied the first two years at a junior college instead and transferred the credits rather than spend so much money on a 4 year school.

most of the people i have ever known with degrees do not work within the field that they studied - even one who is an ivy league PhD opened his own store, unable to find a position in his field - i believe in a good solid education and personally i thrive in an environment that is mentally challenging but in the workplace that is the exception, not the norm - i decided years ago that to have a broad knowledge base is much better than to know everything about one thing - my PhD friend put it perfectly, 'why be a PhD when you can just hire one'

I don't think the degree has much to do with. yes there is a larger number of college grads then ever but the real problem is a failing economy.

Also, let's take some accountability, a degree is only what you make of it, especially a degree in the liberal arts (I'm an english major).

But I would definitely recommend furthering your education.

To all those college students who just read this article and comments to it, DON'T BE DISCOURAGED!!!
The fact is, why it may be harder to find a job with a Bachelor's degree, people with it still earn about 20k, on average, more a year than those without one. So yes, it pays to get that degree.
Besides which, if the economy keeps going the way it's going, there will be less college attendees because their will be less people who can afford it, and therefor that degree will be a more valued asset.

To tell you the truth, I'm in school because I love learning. If I can find a job that challenges my brain while paying the bills, then I'll be happy.

There are alternatives to a bachelors degree. One is technical school. Most of these not only train you in the field that you choose, they also connect you to prospective employers. Universities seem to be pricing themselves out of the market.

I agree with this whole college degree thing. It totally blows as a way to guarantee a future income. Even my Master's degree in Computer Science and booKoo years of experience won't get me a job that pays the rent.

And student loans? Worse than crack for getting you chained to the system.

If you want to know how to make it in the economy, look no further than the little family run businesses: mom, dad, son and daughter all work together. Son becomes a lawyer, daughter opens a second store, and the family prospers. Thousands of previously penniless boat people who are now solid citizens are good models for survival.

I disagree. Former Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates stressed the importance of science and math education in schools in 2006. There is an alarming gap between the number of graduates and the demand for high technology workers. Over the past decade, there has been a measurable drop in engineering and science graduates and a sharp rise in the demand for technology workers. You have to focus on the appropriate sectors and blend in work and volunteer experience. What do you expect when you work out of Bentonville, AR? Of course, the technology sector is also the least unionized of any industry... I wonder why?

so.. what do you want me to do?
flip burgers at burger king?
bag groceries at Ralphs?
be a stripper?
a busdriver?
a fukin clown?
are you kidding me? tell me another way of having a good life without a college degree...
i'm listening.......

i am a prime example...
i dropped out of art school and now im a project manager at a publicly traded company and earn better wages than most of my peers...

A College degree may not be what it used to be but a college education is by far more important now more than ever. you can never and will never replace the value of a QUALITY education ( some colleges may not offer this) . Also I think it depends on the type of degree that one is talking about..

Seems like another trend following our failing economy.

I think the real problem is cronyism, employers are frequently less and less inclined to hire or fire based on talent these days. But who knows?

I'm thinking about switching my major now. =\

I have a degree in psychology and an insurmountable pile of student loans to pay off. I can't get a job in my field because it doesn't pay nearly as much as my bar tending gig. Whatever... who needs normal work hours and health insurance anyway?

In college I learned how to play foosball, throw a frisbee half a mile, and to deal with stress while still communicating my ideas clearly. Guess which one I'm still using.

I have worked in the business arena before I attended college for nearly 20 years and found that there was a movement in the many businesses I worked in by college graduates to remove non-college workers, even those who had done their jobs for many years, with other college graduates. So at age 40 I attended college for the first time and found less knowledge and more arrogance or an attitudes of grandeur from the teachers who could not qualify in industry.

Most of my classes (required to graduate) were wasted time and information. Most teachers were so twisted that their personal lives were the topic of their lectures and finally when I did complete the process receiving my diplomas, I realized why we go to college or university, to give the perception of discipline, the ability to follow through with a task or responsibility as well as you can be ordered to do whatever the head of a company commands just like teachers in classrooms.

Both CEO and teachers are paid way too much for what they don't do.

A bachelor's degree doesn't get you as far as it use to. It used to mean you were all but guaranteed at at least a middle class level of income and something resembling job security. Now a days that's hard to find regardless of your major and you always need work experience before you can start getting any work experience.

If you aren't able to capitalize on your education the Sallie Mae student loan people will have no mercy on you. So, get ready for a lifetime of debt and shitty credit. Screen all of your calls, because it's more than likely a collection posse. You'll be a renter forever. Or you better have one bad ass bartending job. Remember, you can always sell weed like the rest of us.