Date arrested in Greeley transgender murder

I disagree that this is a hate crime. A jury would have to be convinced that the defendent knew and premeditated this crime. He already gave an affidavit stating he did it and the events thereafter, he didn't go out that day and decide he was going to find a transgender to murder. You don't know how you would react if something like this happened to you. People should be careful when pushing their lifestyle on other people. This was indeed a man, not a woman. Stop referring to this person as a woman. God doesn't make mistakes. No murder is not the answer, but I can see why he did it.

And if you wore the wrong color in a gang neighborhood and got shot, could I give you the same excuse? It's wrong, but why were you wearing that color?

No, the boy's feelings are totally wrong and are an indicator of how fucked up our society is, that we have to kill others to deal with our own insecurities.

The fact that he was attracted to this person in the first place PROVES that. What difference does it make that they actually had a penis? They were attracted to them and got blown by them. What difference does it make that he was a man? How could you be offended by that?

The reason is because he thought it would affect his manhood, as you likely do, to be blown by someone other than a biological woman. Because he takes gender roles and sexual norms as reality and not social taboos.

He was afraid of being considered gay and having his masculinity called out on him. Plain and simple.

You cannot justify ANYTHING with that.

What difference does it make? How fucked up is that logic?

When I go to an ice cream store and ask for chocolate ice cream and I get strawberry, you.re damn right that Im going to be pissed. The difference is that I wont be pissed enough to knock the shit out of the cashier.

I know, that example is an extreme simplification of the situation but it's more relevant than your "gang" reference.

Point being both parties were looking for something from the other party. Unfortunately the goods offered by one party were not what the other was asking for. IE, He was misled and justified being angry but that's as far as I will go in his defense. Did he over react? Hell yes he over reacted in a big way and that is where he is at fault.

I have nothing against gay people but yes.. I would be humiliated, offended and angry if I had been duped the way this guy was. No more than you would be after you found out that you'd been duped into a situation that you were not looking for.

I said it before and I'll say it again... had this "guy" been upfront in the beginning none of this would ever have happened. A little of personal responsibility goes a long way.

looking at her , you'd have to have been "gay" not to want to get blown by her . right ?

Ha, personal responsibility? This statement is simply absurd. You claim personal responsibility from the victim would have saved them from getting beat to death with a fire extinguisher? How about expecting some responsibility from the MURDERER. Unbelievable. So, by that rationale, would you justify a woman getting raped because she wore a short skirt? Your views, Abama, are sick. It is the standpoints that you present that allow senseless acts of violence the room for continued acceptance. This mode of thought is just nauseating...

Reading comprehend much AreOh?

In no place did I condone the beating or killing. Sure I believe that he should be accountable for his actions. But the point that you bring up is irrelevant...

Your woman wearing the short skirt is not looking for some sort of relations with the guy that rapes her. Hence it is an indiscriminant assault upon her and even if she was the simple fact that she says "NO" absolves her of responsibility and places blame squarely on the perpetrator of the rape.

In this case here both parties were willing (although one was duped into believing he was getting something that he wasnt) participants. And since one "LIED" about their gender. This puts responsibility on both parties.

Now is Zapata responsible for his murder ... No that falls squarely on Andrade's shoulders and I believe that he should pay for it to the fullest extent of the law. But Zapata is responsible for his actions that lead up to his eventual murder.

Again it's such a simple concept that I dont understand why you all dont see it. A little honesty and discretion would have completely avoided this whole situation.

BTW... being a normal guy, like most other guys I do enjoy seeing a woman in a short skirt but unfortunately there is an element in society today that views that as an invitation for their own nefarious purposes. As such, I caution my friends, sisters, wife and any other woman to exercise some common sense when dressing provocatively and going out alone.

What do angels have to do with this?

It is Cherish's attempt to be open minded concerning the interpretations of gender in our society. Something you should try every once in awhile, JJ.

Problem with that logic is that angels dont go around fooling people that they are their opposite sex.

Blur the gender lines.

I see how that saved someone's life.

If the moron that killed him didn't have such strong gender stereotypes, he wouldn't have been so offended.

Don't you see that JJ? He killed this person because he was afraid, afraid of his masculinity being called out because the person was transgender.

The fact that he was attracted to her means that his prejudice was wrong. What difference does it make if he had a penis or not? He was turned on by her regardless of that.

And of course, Abama misses that point completely. The reason they brought up mixed gendered angels was to support the idea that this isn't unnatural. Even though that argument is ultimately irrelevant, I find it insulting that you think it's ok to respond with violence to a situation like this.

Ha, JJ, I don't know what to say to you. Your views are so narrow minded that there is no room to even consider a different point of view. Continue to view the world with horse blinders.

I never said that it was OK to respond with violence. As a matter of fact I only pointed out that any rational person would be angry and pissed off at being duped.

You will not see me defend the guy for beating this person to death. That is the reaction of an irrational individual.

Areoh...you rather their be no such thing as boy and girl. That's a world of death and confusion and that helps how? I think we should give everyone confused that sort of leniency and see where that takes us. Never having a single line because why have shoulds and should nots. Just let people do whatever....oh wait look what happens when you do that? Someone kills someone else.

In a world of do whatever you want, as you'd have it, you end up with sadness and depression. Your world sucks. I'll strive for something better.

Since we are assuming out of our BSness.

------

Angels are NOT human. Therefore using them as to make you're weird world work...isn't reasonable. Considering you can't even prove their existence I don't see how they are even available for being proof. But if one is to use them then they have to use the Bible to dictate what they do and who they are. In the Bible whenever they mention an angel how do they mention them? He. He did this. He did that. When talking about God? He. When Jesus was sent to Earth in the form of a baby what gender? Male. If it were okay with God and the Angels for humans to have no difference in male and female they wouldn't be considered as He nor would they have had specific rules for woman and man to partake in if they were to be the same.

Don't use something that can't and won't back you up.

You're probably 100% correct and the guy was getting his second orat date when he discovered the person giving him oral sex was a trangendered person!

I also think that it could have been avoided if the transgendered person was clear before hand..but who knows...maybe there was a miscommunication?

Still a sad tale on either side!

Cherish

Oh sure, if you are transgender you deserve to get the shit knocked out of you every once in a while. You are, after all, an abomination, right? Against God's 'master plan', right?
Piss off. NO ONE deserves to be beat up, when they haven't done anything to hurt anyone else.

Thats not what he said.... But yes... if your going to take advantge of someone's ignorance then maybe you should get the shit knocked out of you.

Like I said in some of my other posts ... this COULD have been avoided long before it came to this.

And again I'm not saying that what happened is right. Just that it could have been avoided.

alicenyx, don't take words out of context. Youre being like Fox News. Most guys would want to punch such a guy out if something of that nature happened to them. It mainly has to do with betrayal and dishonesty. He's not saying punch transexuals out indiscriminately.

His murder .... lets keep it in perspective.

No HER murder, she identified herself as female...let her at least retain some dignity and pride in her death.

uh, dude, let's not go for stretching strawmans and try to wrap your own cause in to it. Next we'll have someone saying "he's the kind of monster that would be harpooning baby seals and clubbing whales...!!!"

Dont bother, poteads will try to stick their dope into every situation.

Just give them a few bucks to feed their habit and maybe they will go away and forget how to use a computer during one of their drug induced stupors.

Fabulous point!!!

You're disgusting. Regardless of how bad the guy may have felt (he was probably more embarrassed that he couldn't tell the difference between a girl and a pretty man), that absolutely gives him no right to just up and kill the guy.

I'm assuming you're homophobic.

I could understand wanting to punch the guy out but not murdering him with a fire extinguisher. That's just sick and this guy ought to be put away however he'll probably opt for temp insanity.

He wo justifies a murder is as guilty as the one who did commit it. I wish I could feel forgiveness for you, but I cannot.

unless of course that experience made this person to never feel right or human again.

Obviously, he wasn't very "right" to begin with, considering he bashed someone's head in with a fire extinguisher.

That's discrimination, Ricky. Not as bad as a violent hate crime, but you're still prejudiced against transsexuals.

I was wondering when someone would try to justify this. Unfortunately, I doubt any of these, well, I guess you could call them reasons would make the family of either party feel better. No doubt his gender should have been disclosed, but this does not justify beating someone with a fire extinguisher. It's kind of ironic this line of thinking would come from a self proclaimed genius. Amusing.

1 in 1000 births has mixed genitalia, you do the math on how many people that is.

Millions more have hormonal imbalances or other problems that distort their sexual identity.

Please educate yourself before you say the difference between man and woman is as clear as night and day.

"God designed the human species to reproduce through sexual attraction between a real man and a real woman, not any person's individual thought of what they consider themselves to be."

You've heard of hermaphrodites, right? That was God's creation, too. The only way I can see you justifying that is if God created LSD at the same time and was having psychedelic ideas.

damnneargenius my ass!

more like borderline mentally disabled

He didn't justify it. He explained how someone would feel.

Denying why this happened doesn't make it go away.

And what credible explanation can you give for beating someone with a fire extinguisher, JJ? The simple fact we are all here speaking on it is proof enough that your comment about denial is, once again, irrelevant. No one is denying anything. And as far as reasoning, who cares? Why should my understanding and compassion be wasted on someone who felt that cold blooded murder was an appropriate response? It is comments like these that continue to give space for these things to be accepted. Still, this is nothing new from you, JJ.

No one is denying why it happened, we're fighting this utterly ridiculous assumption that it was somehow justified.

This is about cultural ignorance of basic medical truth. Not everyone is born into a discrete category and the things that we learn to be "manly" or "womanly" things are all socially constructed.

Why are you justifying feelings that are illegitimate?

Areoh....do you have an airpocket in your brain or something? NO ONE is justifying anything. Pay attention.

If you don't understand why someone went and did something then how are you to protect the next victim from a similar situation?

She/HE whatever...should have told. Death was not warranted but defiantly could have been avoided through thinking on her/his whatever's part.

Where is the justification? Nowhere. Because killing someone over sex is just as stupid, if not stupider, than having sex with someone you met on the internet and thinking that that's a great idea.

I love it. Please feel free to insult me as much as you want, JJ. It only shows the kind of person you are even more. Now, let us proceed...

"If you don't understand why someone went and did something then how are you to protect the next victim from a similar situation? "

This is your statement. This statement is an attempt to bring understanding to a senseless act. Or, if you will, justification. You insult me and say you are not trying to justify anything, but in the same breath, attempt to bring some type of understanding of justification to a what? Senseless act. I'll repeat that. A Senseless Act. There is no point in trying to understand a senseless act, because it doesn't make any sense. Any attempt to understand it is an act in futility. There is no point in trying to understand it, because there is NO JUSTIFICATION for beating someone to death with a fire extinguisher. This is a simple concept. I will reserve me reasoning and analytical ability for those that deserve it. Insults do not change the fact it is a pointless exercise trying to bring any understanding or justification to this particular situation.

I said it in frustration over you accusing me of something I didn't do and instead of using the phrase correctly towards someone else you continue to lie.

Shows what kind of person you are.

If one is to believe you to be someone who loves to lie.

You don't understand people then you'll trigger someone else. And even if they are wrong guess what? You're dead...and therefore the loser is the dead person not the person who committed the act. The one who committed the act was either the random crazy or someone that could have been avoided. It matters not if he is in the wrong because guess what? Someone is dead. Someone that could still be alive.

It's like telling someone to not bother with looking across the street because pedestrians always have the right-a-way but the problem with that is that one day someone won't give that to you and what will happen? You could die or be seriously injured and as much as they are in the wrong you could have avoided that entire accident by looking both ways before crossing the street.

Blame doesn't protect you....

Let's remember .... for all intents and purposes and as far as the straight majority is concerned ... "she" was really a "he".

Again not that I think what happened to "him" was right ... but it could have been avoided.

so far as i'm concerned , a " real man" would have just walked away and chalked it up as a mis-adventure , and maybe laugh about it , and think to himself " damn , that was messed up , but fun " .

I can't say that I agree with you 100% there. I know that I would be a little pissed off. But I also know that while I would feel like I wanted some sort of retribution it certainly would not be in the form of violence, Expecially not in the extreme that this guy took it.

Like I said in my other posts on this subject, just a little honesty would probably avoided this whole issue.

you don't speak for the entire straight majority. i know plenty of straights who recognize transgendered men and women

Exactly.

What happened was horrible and that man is not in the right for what he did, but it could have been avoided if Angie had just been up front about it and not a whore. Cause that what a whore does...go around and give sexual pleasure to anyone who asks. And considering Angie most likely didn't fully know this person and only did it because of attraction that could also have been avoided.