Gay Mormons fight for acceptance

I honestly thought that that 10% tithing went to the church for stuff like keeping the lights on and helping their own members. Not the homeless or anything like that.

Veronica1337, A slight correction here is perhaps warranted. The church does have a few other funds that they like you to contribute to but the bulk of their revenue comes from tithing.

The number of stake centers and temples that they have built and are continuing to build is literally staggering. This money doesn't fall from the sky but from their members pockets. All of this money is tax exempt. Granted the church does contribute some of these moneys to helping the poor but it is not an amount that is easily considered to be staggering based on the amounts they spend on their places of worship. They do take care of their members provided they adhere to the church's principles.

They took approximately 24 million dollars of this tax exempt tithing money and fought for Prop 8 in California. For this they should lose their tax exemption as it is in violation of the governmental law forbidding churches from getting involved in politics.

No tithing was spent on campaigning for Prop 8. That is just totally untrue and to keep perpetuating that lie weakens the fabric of the honest homosexual community trying to assert what they believe are their rights. I am very curious about where in the book of Mormon "bigotry and racism" are found that was not condemned by those proclaimed as the "people of God?"

Well anything can be taken out of context. The book of Mormon tells the story and history of a people. If we were to quote some old southern gentleman from 1840 who talked about slaves like they were dogs or mere property would that be a fair example of all Americans today? The Book of Mormon also contains stories of young Nephite men who lived among the Lamanites and served them and protected their lands, crops, and herds from thieves at the risk of their own lives. Many Nephites died for the Lamanites who buried their weapons. The Book of Mormon also contains these verses:

Jarom 1: 6
" And they were scattered upon much of the face of the land, and the Lamanites also. And they were exceedingly more numerous than were they of the Nephites; and they loved murder and would drink the blood of beasts."

In these words it is explained that the Lamanites were barbaric and murderous. Perhaps that is why they were considered loathsome to the Lord who wanted His people to remain faithful. It was also explained that they had been taught to be that way by their fathers who hated the Nephites. However, in other words God chastises the Nephites who were in much more danger of loosing their souls because they loved the riches of the world.

Alma 60: 32
"Behold, can you suppose that the Lord will spare you and come out in judgment against the Lamanites, when it is the tradition of their fathers that has caused their hatred, yea, and it has been redoubled by those who have dissented from us, while your iniquity is for the cause of your love of glory and the vain things of the world?"

The book of Mormon teaches love, sacrifice, forgiveness, the misery of war and hate. It does not promote bigotry or racism anymore than most Americans today would support slavery.

To prevent this from being taken out of context I photo copied this page from the Book of Mormon.

With regards to your statement of:
"If we were to quote some old southern gentleman from 1840 who talked about slaves like they were dogs or mere property would that be a fair example of all Americans today?"

The photo copied page from the Book of Mormon (BOM) is not a quote from some old southern gentleman from 1840. It is a quote, word for word from the BOM which was translated word for word from the brass plates by use of the Urim and Thummin (a seer stone). This was done by Joseph Smith and his claim was that it was as it had been written.

How can you take this out of context as it is plainly given in context. "Wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the lord thy God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

The context I get here is that a dark skin is loathsome and a curse! The Lord spake it and it was done. I have never considered The Lord or God to be a southern gentleman of the 1840's. Perhaps you are referencing to Joseph Smith here but you see he supposedly only translated the BOM and did not write it.

It is true the BOM has some great stories and some speak of God like things but some do not. The point here is that the church has had dark moments in time with regards to people of color whether it be African Americans or Native Americans. If they were as they claim to be the one and only true church on the face of the earth and their prophet walks and talks with God then how is it they could have such horrific, ugly moments in their history? How could they make such errors or poor judgments if they are truly counseled by God?

Out of context? Simply laughable...

It is taken out of context because it is given by you to represent a Mormon belief and practice. However, you ignore the rest of the book and the teachings and history of the interactions of the Laminites and Nephites. As to the reference to the Southern Gentlemen it was about the comparison of history. My point is that there are many acts of bigotry or fear based on erroneous beliefs but one point in time or history does not discount a whole people. Just because my grandfather may have been a horse thief doesn't mean I think it is okay to be a thief. And I am not calling homosexuals thiefs.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the bible. It is full of bigotry, hatred and racism. People claim the bible is of God. God is not a racist or bigot for sure, but people are. I suppose with your logic that the bible is a good story too, but not from God.

The Bible is filled with good stories but I don't believe that it was written by God. There are far too many contradictions and claims that don't stand up to reality as to what is now evident based on scientific evidence and common sense using visual observation. Much of the bible was written when anything that came from the sky or anything that couldn't be explained was defaulted to, it must be God or an Angel. Now we know that solar and lunar eclipses are just that, solar and lunar eclipses. Meteor showers or falling stars are what they are. Giants upon the land are fables created from findings of large dinosaur bones that resembled mystical creatures and in some cases giant humans (cyclops: addressed in one of my other posts). Dinosaurs had yet to be discovered or defined.

Religion is simply a tool designed and used by man to justify what they deem to be desired and preferred form of what is acceptable to various bodies or groups of people. Any that are different can be mistreated, maligned or annihilated if they don't conform or comply to what that particular religion establishes as the rule. If they don't understand something or it is offensive to them, then it must be offensive to God as well therefore it becomes their law. This is evident by all of the various religions that exist; and all claim to be God's true religion and yet there are so many with so many differences.

How can God create something and then despise it for being what he created it to be? (People that are gay are born that way as anyone that is gay knows). I wholeheartedly believe there is a God as I have had far too many experiences that give evidence to this being so. Religion continues to show contradictions as to what I have found to be consistent with the God I know. God is a kind and loving being and the Bible and so many other religious books give evidence of him being a murderous, spiteful, hateful and bigoted God. This makes him a hypocrite if you judge him by his own standards as laid out by what is claimed to be his words. It would be much like "Do as I say and not as I do" type of thing.

Christ supposedly said, "As ye see me do, you do likewise." Now that sounds more like a God thing and not so religious and hypocritical. Ultimately, the Golden Rule is a fairly pure form of Godliness and could be a rather simple and fairly complete guide so many religions could take a lesson from. This would conflict with many of their agendas so it most likely will never happen.

I have a friend that is gay. He has struggled with this since he was eight years old. He listened to his father, stepmother and their friends tell jokes and make fun of the "gay bastards." He seriously considered suicide on numerous occasions. He finally came out to his father and his stepmother. His relationship with them has become almost nonexistent. (Oh! they are all Mormons.)

Having watched his struggle I became a believer that being gay is not a choice for most. It is actually something a person can be born with; it is just like being born male, female, black, white or any other difference in kind.

When science nails this down a little more as being genetically driven and can prove it, religion will take a nose dive as it should. Mormonism will be one of the first I would like to see break their face. Their credibility of being God's one and only true church will crumble as will be their claim that their prophet is in direct communication with God! MEH

God is not a bigot nor is he racist. Religions in general are and they are indeed the little Carriers and spreaders of these diseases!!!

The statements you attribute to your mother are her opinions and not the opinions or doctrine of the LDS Church.

I think it is possible to love your neighbor without agreeing with your neighbor's actions. According to the Mormon paradigm, homosexual and lesbian relationships go against the grain of the laws of the universe.

Therefore, unless the LDS Church fundamentally changes it's doctrine, for a Mormon to say that s/he feels alright with someone's decision to be gay would be a sign of not loving one's neighbor.

I say that because loving one's neighbor means helping your neighbor be happy. Mormons believe that homosexuality is contrary to ultimate happiness so they show their love expressing their views of truth on the issue.

At the same time, Mormons also really value freedom of choice. That is, Mormons believe everyone's right to choose is sacred and that no one should force anyone else to choose a particular course even if people's decisions are destructive. People should do all they can to love others and persuade them to make good decisions but they also need to respect people's rights to make all kinds of decisions.

So, I think the Mormons can respect people who've chosen to be gay and enjoy friendships with them while still not agreeing with the decision.

Well said. The concern I have is that someone who attacks myself, Mormons, Christians, and others who believe as we do will use remarks like, "what ever happened to love thy neighbor?" Yet, they see no contradiction when they try to get a half way house for the mentally ill out of their neighborhood or when they vandalize the home of another because that person had a political sign in their yard, or when they ridicule the religious symbols of others. It is the double standard or rights that will destroy this nation from within.

As I said, religions do not accept many behaviors, not just homosexuality. Mormons do not tolerate people who engage in pre-marital sex, nor do they tolerate people drinking alcohol or smoking, or chewing tobacco. They do not tolerate many behaviors. Being in this religion means living a strict lifestyle. So someone can also say "I believe in the Mormon church, but I love to drink or have pre-marital sex" and they will be unaccepted as well. So the point I'm making is people need to find a place where they are comfortable. Over 10 million people are finding comfort in the Mormon church. But for those who are not, find something else.

The whole point of the church is living a certain lifestyle they (Mormons) believe in. Homosexuality is not in those beliefs.

I would like to see any facts that you have of any of the claims you have made. Mormons having large families is not a new thing to raise the church's population, so your example is moot.

Now you are just being silly. Poor fellow maybe you need to get a hobby other than posting fibs.

I've seen better ;)

Thank you for making my morning with this reply!!

I don't know where you get your statistics but religion is not dying. There are a lot of younger people going back to the Churches. There have been several studies lately by National Magazines that point this out. God is not dead.

Thank you for pointing out that Mormonism is not a cult.

I think the reason that Affirmation and other gay groups want to not just start their own religions but be accepted by the religions they grew up with is because they want people to say that what they're doing is ok. It's a desire to have your decisions affirmed by a culture that has been played a huge role in defining your life as long as you can remember.

I was born and raised Mormon, I asked to be removed and they have yet to do it. In fact I couldn't get a response to my numerous tries.

Are they a cult? From my perspective, yes!
This church is extremely bigoted and racist. They have tried to cloak it in the last few decades but their Book of Mormon is filled with racism and bigotry. They claim this book to be the true word of God. God is not a bigot nor is he a racist thus this book is a good story book but not of God.

When it became politically correct to treat black people a certain way, God suddenly gave a new revelation allowing them to hold the priesthood. Oh, the revenue increases really helped.

In Utah they build stake centers on almost every other corner. This is their choice but you need to know that each building costs around 12 to 15 million dollars. This money comes from the tithing funds (10% of ones income) they receive from their members.

If there were no homeless people in Utah then this would not be as offensive. Rumor has it that during the Olympics they shipped a lot of their homeless people to California.

If the members of this church were to take that 10% they pay in tithing and help the poor and hungry to get back on their feet they would literally change their communities and this nation. But you see it is not about that, it is more about the revenue machine and how fast they can get it to grow.

Words of sense in the desert of nonsense....

yayuh

Leviticus also says that your supposed to sacrifice goats. No one does that any more.

Mormons do not "say it is okay to hate gays." nor do they teach their children to hate gay people or any other sinner. The LDS leaders teach, and the people believe that same sex sexual relations, sex outside of marriage, and adultery are sins. Never do they teach that we should hate or ostracize our loved ones. We believe in right and wrong, sin and consequences. We also believe in love and acceptance. We do not change what we believe to to please "social norms." We believe in God's Laws and we strive to practice them as we preach them. I have a child in Prison. I believe he broke Man's laws and God's laws. I have not stopped loving him, nor have I been asked to by my Church. I wouldn't turn my back on him if he told me that he is gay or any other behavior that I consider a sin.

"Mormonism is strange fundamentalist freak religion."

I strongly disagree with this statement. I really don't think you know very much about what you are talking about. This is what the media portrays the religion to be but in reality it is not too different than most religions.

I'm not too familiar with Scientology's doctrine so I'm not sure what you mean by that. But I do know that Mormon people on the whole aren't as bad as people make them out to be.

I got your back Owwmykneecap! You're right on dude! Well said!

I don't think it's really fair to judge people before you get to know them. Maybe you should try talking to a Mormon.

Mormonism is nothing like Scientology. Mormons believe in Christ and they believe in the laws of God. Scientology is about Man and their power to control themselves and others. You should do some reading and learning before You make blank statements.

No joke.