Russia Georgia War - Washington risks nuclear war by miscalculation
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- Vierotchka
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The dramatic military attack by the military of the Republic of Georgia on South Ossetia in the last days has brought the world one major step closer to the ultimate horror of the Cold War era—a thermonuclear war between Russia and the United States—by miscalculation. What is playing out in the Caucasus is being reported in US media in an alarmingly misleading light, making Moscow appear the lone aggressor. The question is whether George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are encouraging the unstable Georgian President, Mikhail Saakashvili in order to force the next US President to back the NATO military agenda of the Bush Doctrine. This time Washington may have badly misjudged the possibilities, as it did in Iraq , but this time with possible nuclear consequences.
The underlying issue, as I stressed in my July 11 piece in this space, Georgien, Washington, Moskau: Atomarer geopolitischer Machtpoker , is the fact that since the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact in 1991 one after another former member as well as former states of the USSR have been coaxed and in many cases bribed with false promises by Washington into joining the counter organization, NATO.
Rather than initiate discussions after the 1991 dissolution of the Warsaw Pact about a systematic dissolution of NATO, Washington has systematically converted NATO into what can only be called the military vehicle of an American global imperial rule, linked by a network of military bases from Kosovo to Poland to Turkey to Iraq and Afghanistan . In 1999, former Warsaw Pact members Hungary , Poland and the Czech Republic joined NATO. Bulgaria , Estonia , Latvia , Lithuania , Romania , and Slovakia followed suit in March 2004. Now Washington is putting immense pressure on the EU members of NATO, especially Germany and France , that they vote in December to admit Georgia and Ukraine .
The roots of the conflict
The specific conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia and Abkhazia has its roots in the following. First, the Southern Ossetes , who until 1990 formed an autonomous region of the Georgian Soviet republic, seek to unite in one state with their co-ethnics in North Ossetia, an autonomous republic of the Russian Soviet republic and now the Russian Federation . There is an historically grounded Ossete fear of violent Georgian nationalism and the experience of Georgian hatred of ethnic minorities under then Georgian leader Zviad Gamsakhurdia, which the Ossetes see again under Georgian President, Mikhel Saakashvili. Saakashvili was brought to power with US financing and US covert regime change activities in December 2003 in what was called the Rose Revolution. Now the thorns of that rose are causing blood to spill.
Abkhazia and South Ossetia—the first a traditional Black Sea resort area, the second an impoverished, sparsely populated region that borders Russia to the north—each has its own language, culture, history. When the Soviet Union collapsed, both regions sought to separate themselves from Georgia in bloody conflicts - South Ossetia in 1990-1, Abkhazia in 1992-4.
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la2lu3lp
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The roots of the conflict:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/south-ossetia.htm
Click and read!!! Russians are control frisks and they want to drive this world crazy!!! They want to control Black sea and Oil pipe line, which is going across Georgia. that is... why they do this. Most Ossetian's are Just Georgians and they are part of Georgian Blood. All is Russians!! God! why don't you punish them!!! Not all Russians of course!! Just today's Russian government!!! - 2 years ago
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la2lu3lp
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Vierotchka
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Do you mean to say that your country is not on earth?
I have great admiration for Costa Rica - I have had that admiration for a good 40 years because it chose not to have a military but to use that money for its health-care system instead. But even the best of countries can produce bad seed, you are the demonstration of that fact.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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petarro
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Life is great. We will see who will shut up soon. :-)
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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petarro:
Yes, life is great, so why do you encourage its destruction all the time?
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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Emil_G
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petarro:
Hey petarro, I almost feel bad for schooling you because in the long run, knowledge helps, and I don't want to help you, but I can't resist.
The Russians did win WWII.
- 3 years ago
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Emil_G
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petarro
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I was surely never lied you see. My Country is the most Neutral ever.
If your accusations about "lies" come from "Editors" like the one above, you are living your life between drugs and crazy ideas.
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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petarro:
No, I base myself on facts. I knew about this planned war on Afghanistan before 9/11 occurred. I posted about it on several discussion groups before 9/11 occurred. I had read about it in several perfectly credible and respected media.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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Vierotchka
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What specific news back in 2001-2003 are you referring to? The war on Afghanistan was planned months before 9/11 and planned for mid-October 2001, military personnel were already in the region when 9/11 occurred. You were lied to about that war as much as you were lied to about Iraq.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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petarro
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Please elaborate and provide a wider explanation. And after you come up with "Iraq", please read the news again back in 2001-2003 so you can remember a little bit more.
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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lenhart
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petarro:
Please elaborate and provide a wider explanation. And after you come up with "Iraq", please read the news again back in 2001-2003 so you can remember a little bit more.
Why don't you post a single meaningful sentence and then back it up with a single FACT? Please read the news yourself, inform yourself, and make some sense. Then back it up! All you post is venom --NO SUBSTANCE!
- 3 years ago
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lenhart
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Vierotchka
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The amount of pain to the world caused by Russia is paltry compared to the amount of pain and destruction and wars the US has caused to and in the world.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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lenhart
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Vierotchka:
You are absolutely correct. It was, after all, Ronald Reagn who blinked when Gorbachev put total nuclear disarmament on the table ar Reykjavik. The world might have been a safer, more peaceful, better place if Ronald Reagan had been his own man. Rather, he was OWNED by the powers that maintain the GOP, a tiny elite of about one percent of the nation. R. Reagan was a stooge.
- 3 years ago
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lenhart
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petarro
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This post is ludicrous, The person that posted this has clearly showed anger against the US, Democracy and tries to brain wash people using News and the Media to forget about events that actually happen but you simply Forget.
The Human mind is easily bendable. The image that represents this story, is from a test made from France. Currently Russia does all it's Nuclear testing in Kazakhstan.
The reality here, is that Russia has caused enough pain to the world. While the rest of the cultures and humanity evolves, Russia stays in a state of War, and carries Cultural violence.
Europeans and most of the world should be rethinking how their reality would have been if either the Nazi or Russians would have won WW2. America asked Europe to create a European Union and now, it is a great Democracy that might be unbreakable.
The would is NOT to stand below Russia, and as Georgia did not kneel against Russia, so should the world.
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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petarro:
Your response is ludicrous - you are blinded by your hatred and jealousy of me. Try reading the original article before spewing your poisonous nonsense.
It is likely that the original article and its contents are way above your ken.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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petarro
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petarro:
Hahaha. William Engdahl and the... Market Oracle?
This Story appears to be in a UK "Website" while the editor works for "Asian Magazines".Listen to this:... "Engdahl now believes that petroleum is not produced from remains of prehistoric zooplankton and algae, which had settled to a sea or lake bottom in large quantities under anoxic conditions (the theory supported by physical evidence as well as the majority of petroleum geologists and engineers).[1] Instead he believes in the hypothesis that petroleum is produced underground by unknown materials, conditions and forces deeper down in the Earth's core. Engdahl calls himself an "ex peak oil believer".
Your source is... Nuts!?
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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petarro:
Having a different opinion from you is sanity, not "nutz". He is not the only one who has come to this conclusion, quite a few scientists have done likewise.
Engdahl is very knowledgeable on history and geopolitics, and very respected too.
You commit the typical right-wingnut logical fallacy known as "Poisoning the Well", that's because you're not very intelligent at all and totally brainwashed and blinded by hatreds of all kinds.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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lenhart
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petarro:
This post is ludicrous,
You refer to YOURS, of course.
The person that posted this has clearly showed anger against the US,
So what? I am of NATIVE AMERICAN descent! I am angry at the US for stealing my ancestors lands, their old, and, in fact, perpetrating genocide against them. Your venom proves nothing and it certainly does not support whatever dubious case you THINK that you are making.
Democracy and tries to brain wash people using News and the Media to forget about events that actually happen but you simply Forget.
I suggest you inform yourself before you engage in vague and irrelevant generalities about the nature of Democracy. Its over your heard. Clue: read at least ONE book! Two would be a challenge to you.
The Human mind is easily bendable.
How does one who lacks a human mind make meaningful statements about it? Just curious!
The image that represents this story, is from a test made from France.
You make baseless, ignorant and uninformed accusations! You debase this forum!
Currently Russia does all its Nuclear testing in Kazakhstan.
Have you been there? Post a link! Prove it! Whats your point?
The reality here, is that Russia has caused enough pain to the world.
And suffered equally! Russia, in fact, won WWII. The US just kept some troops pinned down on the Western Front. Russia had already born the brunt of several years of hard fighting in bitter conditions before Americans landed at D-Day!
While the rest of the cultures and humanity evolves, Russia stays in a state of War, and carries Cultural violence.
Jingoistic nonsense, smears and slanders based upon your utter ignorance, possibly stupidity! Get off your sorry ass and go back to school. Learn to read first ---then study history! Stop watching TV.
Europeans and most of the world should be rethinking how their reality would have been if either the Nazi or Russians would have won WW2.
What has that got to do with the substance of the post about which you are so irrationally vehement?
America asked Europe to create a European Union and now, it is a great Democracy that might be unbreakable.
Surely you are not referring to the US as a great Democracy when, in fact, Bush has trashed the Constitution ('a goddamned piece of paper', he called it), ignored the separation of powers, rescinded upon a decree the right of 'habeas corpus' and, with signing statements, rules by decree. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution which allows Bush to absolve himself or his felonious minions ex post facto. Yet those are the powers and authorities that he asserts upon no legal basis whatsoever. In fact, the Bush regime alone stands to benefit by luring Russia into a war in Georgia, the consequences of which --as you have demonstrated --you have NO CLUE!
The would is NOT to stand below Russia, and as Georgia did not kneel against Russia, so should the world.
You merely assert but you do not know, you do not persuade and you do not support!
- 3 years ago
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lenhart
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petarro
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petarro:
Lenhart, Is that Picture from Che Guevara!? HAHA HAHA HAAAAAAAAAAAA!
You are a Joke.
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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petarro:
He is no joke. He is an intellectual and mental giant compared to you, farty.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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J_Jammer [removed]
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You can find an opinion on anything from anywhere. Just look around this site people turn into Business Savvy persons when Wal-mart is mentioned.
Lesser of two evils here and the lesser of these two evils is America. Russia has psychotic demands of Georgia asking them to remove their leader from office as one of their stipulations for a cease fire. Of course that sort of has been rethought out after the world caught wind of their lame demand and they've altered it...but the fact that they asked for it is still evil.
Who are they to demand change in a process that the people stated their opinion?
It's not like Russia who has a puppet as a President while the former is pulling his strings...even as he sat at the opening of the Olympics.
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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Vierotchka
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J_Jammer:
J_Jammer - why don't you read the article I linked to before spewing unrelated nonsense?
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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J_Jammer [removed]
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J_Jammer:
Reading blame articles are the least fun ever. One only needs to blame America and it seems you latch on like a hungry puppy to its mommy.
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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Vierotchka
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J_Jammer:
J_Jammer, even though I disagree with you on many issues, I have so far respected you, but this respect is waning now. Try reading the original article - it is very informative and full of hard, cold facts.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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J_Jammer [removed]
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J_Jammer:
I did read it and that was my reply. My initial reply.
I'm well aware that every country has their agenda and I know that America has their own and that Georgia is most likely part of it.
But I'm also aware that Russia is by far not the "good" guy in this round up of idiots. They, too, have an agenda and based on history their agendas are far worse that those of other countries.
I don't trust articles and their "truth" when they have one sided views of what is going on no matter how many facts they present...because they, like other medias, could always present just enough Facts that give their opinion more stature....leaving out other facts that would cause doubt.
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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Vierotchka
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J_Jammer:
There is nothing one-sided to that article, there are only facts in it. I think I have overestimated your intelligence.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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ihateyou
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here is a link to a russian news outlet. Pravada
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/09-08-2008/106049-russiasaviour-0
there are always 2 sides to every story, the united states media and the truth - 3 years ago
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ihateyou
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J_Jammer [removed]
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ihateyou:
I'm sure Russia's media is full of this "truth".
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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petarro
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ihateyou:
ihateyou, as always, your nickname tells us everything we needed to know to understand where your comments come from.
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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ihateyou:
petarro is also a word for smelly fart, you chose your handle well!
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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lenhart
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ihateyou:
>
LOL LOL LOL
Bravo ....brilliant!
- 3 years ago
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lenhart
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extblues
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As biased as the media might be in the west, and as poor as the Georgian human rights record might be, I have to wonder why the Russians have sent in over 10,000 troops, with air support, into the region?
Last time I checked, that much firepower isn't generally needed to "keep the peace and protect those citizens of South Osetia who hold Russian passports" in an area that is only slightly larger than Rhode Island. And especially when it is up against a military that is, at best, only 1/10th as large in terms of personnel and material...even with any aid that the US has given it.
Now as an invasion force, tasked with taking and holding territory for an extended period of time, it is just about right...
All things considered however, I think Georgia is only the start of what is probably going to be a much wider conflict in the region. Indeed, I'd start worrying about itchy nuclear trigger fingers when (...if?) the Russians start knocking on Ukraine's doorstep.
- 3 years ago
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extblues
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alexandrek [removed]
- This comment was removed by its owner.
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alexandrek [removed]
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Vierotchka
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alexandrek:
You obviously haven't read the original article (click on the link or on the picture to reach it), because had you read it, you wouldn't have written what you wrote unless you're a shill or an idiot.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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stephenthomson
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there's a new war every day.
Bush and Cheney cannot be trusted to do the right thing. - 3 years ago
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stephenthomson
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rube
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I would not be surprised in any way to know that the real truth about war between Georgia and Russia may be skewed by the American media. "Some network reported to some network that some other newtwork was informed by some political representative from Russia, or no was it from Georgia or was it Russia? Who, what and where have never been so difficult to acertain!
If this war goes into the next and final acts- you blame the same idiots who were governing our nation during 9/11!
I wonder who that would be? - 3 years ago
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rube
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Adumbration
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At least it's by miscalculation and not misunderestimation. If that were the case, we'd all be dead by now. Wait...
- 3 years ago
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Adumbration
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sublimeuniverse
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When you think that nuclear power is a good idea, you are just a button away from nuclear war.
- 3 years ago
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sublimeuniverse
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shkiper77
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My name is Alexey, I am living in Vladivostok which is far away from southern part of Russia and close to Japan. I am watching lots of news – European, Russian, American and Asian, including CNN. I cannot keep silence any longer and I want to say the following. I am in perplexity how CNN reviews the situation about South Osetia. CNN is saying nothing about Georgian massive perfidious night attack on the capital of South Osetia without any warning after few hours when Saakashvilly said “We are not going to use any aggression.” CNN is saying nothing about killing peace forces during that night attack. I didn’t hear anything about killing thousands of civilians during that attack by using reactive volley machines that are burning the area and killing all around and not for dotted fire. CNN is saying nothing about resolution of the year 1992 (subscribed by Georgia) about peace forces that actually stopped the war between Georgia and South Osetia at that time and are keeping peace during 16 years and patiently waiting when Georgia and South Osetia will find any solution. CNN is saying nothing about Georgian forces killing civilians in homes, basements, streets – nothing about that in the next day after destroying 10 villages and the capital Georgian forces were not allowed take off injured people and shot the caravan with such a people. CNN is saying nothing about Georgian action when they flooded a part of the city and killed many of citizens in basements that didn’t escaped. CNN is saying nothing about Russian help of saving people with camps, food and medicines and nothing about why other countries are not helping. I do not know why; probably “west” consider some human beings as “people” and some as “gun meat” for politicians.
CNN says that Russian forces came to capture Georgia, but says nothing about that they came to save civilians and push Georgian troops off the peace line where they were few days ago – that is all – nothing more. Russia respects Georgian territorial integrity, and during 16 years didn’t confess an independence of South Osetia and waiting for any peaceful agreement between Georgia and Osetia!
CNN shows medicine camps with injured people without any (ANY!!!) comments from those people, just we can hear some music in background and CNN’s comments about how those people were shot during Russian attacks – such an outrageous lie! LET THOSE PEOPLE SAY IN CAMERA THE TRUTH!
CNN shows how some reactive volley machines during night time shooting somewhere and in the background with tragedy music we can hear some CNN’s comments about Russian aggression, but nobody knows that the video is about Georgian GRAD’s that destroying villages during the first night attacks – such an outrageous lie! Just after that we can see a picture of Russian tanks – probably it works good for a “western” auditory for a brain washing – RUSSIA-TANKS – TANKS-RUSSIA – like zombing people as if such a military equipment inseparably bound with anything Russian because the pattern of a Cold War is still in minds of many “western people”, but it is no longer in minds of Russians – which is very strange to me…
Probably for some politicians it is OK to say that black is white and white is black and big Russia is an aggressor that came to terminate a small Georgia.
CNN says that Russia uses too many forces to stop Georgian “peacemakers”. I just wander who is going to calculate the amount of combatants that are needed to stop those who are killing kids at this time. Probably US will send some three super heroes from the Hollywood movie which might substitute “too many forces” that will stop the entire army of Georgia. Instead of helping the peace forces to save civilians and to push Georgian troops off the peace line the US helped Saakashvilly to bring more from Iraq – no comments, newer mind!
Sincerely, Alexey - 3 years ago
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shkiper77
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brad62
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shkiper77:
You must be watching a different cnn than the rest of the World. All the news stations have said that Georgia invaded So. Ossetia in a predawn raid Thursday morning.
I haven't looked at fox news yet. - 3 years ago
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brad62
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tweets972
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shkiper77:
Welcome to the world of American mainstream media. I had to turn off CNN because it was so biased. I haven't watched the other cable news channels but I'm sure they aren't that much different since Georgia is our ally.
- 3 years ago
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tweets972
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petarro
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shkiper77:
I watch NBC, CNN, Sky, Russia Today and they all said that Georgia, a Democracy, which cannot stand a separatist Government, which voted for their President, which actually according to most Georgians, the Region should remain part of Georgia.
What people fail to remember is that this is a Country, where people elected the president and chose how things would be done. Russia just has a big nose and get's into people's business just because it suits them. Why didn't the Ossetians-Russians move to Russia if they already had a passport!? Why did Russia give them a passport in the first place?
You obviously only care about your "Russia". The Soviets used this same excuse to invade Czechoslovakia and lots of the other Countries.
We are sick of Communism, we are sick of Authoritarians.
This has a simple answer. Russia created instability, attacked in the moment the Georgian President did something stupid, now South Ossetia is from Russia and will have a Military occupation for the Remaining years. All this, to Justify:
1. Georgia from becoming NATO.
2. South Ossetia will be "supported" by Russian troops. Clearly, just to be close Military to Georgia in case at any point NATO engages Georgia or to difficult the idea of putting a Western base in Georgia.Do you think your "Putin" cares about these 70.000 Georgio-Russians!?!? (Which Soviets once gave away as a gift to Georgia!?)
Do you think you are not "blinded" by your Communistic Country? Alexey?
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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shkiper77:
Petarro, you are despairingly uninformed and ignorant.
Oh, and Russia has not been communist for seventeen years now, in case that information hadn't reached the pea that passes for your brains.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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Saladin
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I think it would be a vast oversimplification to say we are risking nuclear war here.
Even with Kennedy and Khrushchev in the missile crisis, the only thing that made nuclear holocaust a frightening possibility was both those countries' lack of control over their hawkish generals. Neither of those countries' leaders desired nuclear war in any way.
I don't think we're seeing that kind of instability in Russia's or even America's generals today. And as cruel as Putin is and as dogmatic and foolish Bush is, neither of them desire a repeat of the cold war in any way.
- 3 years ago
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Saladin
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Robroy1
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We are all aware that Bush and Co. are very evil people, anyone should be able to figure out that Bush and Co. are behind this. It involves, oil, bombs and death the elements that Bush and Co. are always promoting. Being Bush and Co make thier money on oil and bombs which result in the killing of innocent people. I hope one day America will have a leader who is intrested in peace and will at least try to achieve peace even though some other countries may not agree. I don't blame other countries for attacking America and it's intrests. With leaders like Bush and Co. constantly working on American expansionaism all over the globe, trying to control other countries for thier own GREED, can you blame them. I only hope America does not have to pay with many more innocent lives for the GREED of BUSH and Co. I also hope one day soon America will have peace and stop it's aggression towards other nations.
- 3 years ago
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Robroy1
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hannibolio
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the worst can come but the worst can also be avoided. We have to think positive because if this really happens, it will be the end of the world. We have to think of ways to avoid a nuclear war.
- 3 years ago
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hannibolio
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Xomeron
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Wow. I never knew this. So bush and Cheney are the source? Not surprising.
- 3 years ago
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Xomeron
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petarro
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Xomeron:
You are easily tricked. So, it's on Current and then you believe it!?
Regular Joe's make "News" here and post whatever information they want, tricking the weak minds.
Go on an Read. Take a look at Russia Today, CBS, CNN, NBC.
Think for yourself.
- 3 years ago
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petarro
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Vierotchka
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Xomeron:
Petarro, why don't you read the original article (hint - click on the picture or on the link) before spewing out your poisonous lies?
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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kennymotown
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I fear the worst is yet too come, I hope cooler heads will prevail, but who. This whole mess may be by design, and in the background maybe the nuts who during the 80"s said a limited nuclear war could be survivable.
- 3 years ago
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kennymotown
