Drugs will be 'legal in 10 years'

So is caffeine and its more addictive than marijuana. ;-)

"And do we really *want* widespread cocaine use?" - We already have it! Would it really change if it was legal? Are there hoards of people who want to do cocaine but don't simply based on it's legality?

"increasing underage drinking" - I REALLY doubt it. I'd have to see some records and research, but I have a funny feeling adolescents have always drank, and it was probably way more accepted in the last few hundred years than it is today!

" Also, if legalised, whats to stop drugs getting into the hands of those below any legal age limit? If we can't get a grip on what is already legal, can we really claim to be *ready* to ring the changes on this?"-
But the thing is, NOTHING IS STOPPING IT NOW.
Potheads get there pot, cokeheads get their coke, no matter what age they are. All of the problems you have mentioned already exist- the only difference is, the government spends BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR trying to prevent it and they fail miserably!

I'd prefer that drug war money go into something helpful- like rehab centers and scientific research for addiction- than spent putting non-violent offenders in overcrowded jails and perpetuating a broken system of propaganda and lies!

Undoubtedly, the ill effects of many illicit drugs are exacerbated by the British government and media to justify a hard anti-drug line. This is parallel to the line taken by the US government, the idea of the 'war on drugs', like drugs themselves are the enemy. I know that they are not. My contention is that people are often their own enemies.

We live in a highly consumptive culture where excesses are not only tolerated, but seen as valid choices or forms of expression, regardless of their subsequent societal impact. Most of our generation accept the idea of binging (even if they don't themselves do so), as young people with the means and freedom to excercise that choice. We're a 'do it cuz it feels good, worry about it later' sort of nation.

If a drug is legalised from this sort of attitude, its excessive consumption becomes automatically permissible, to those without the mind (or willpower) to excercise any societal responsibility. When using drugs, thoughts of our impact on others are often pushed back a few steps - often to the point where they are out of mind.

This is not to say there are 'hordes of people who want to do cocaine', but straightforward legalisation says 'this commodity is for you'. Once a commodity is legalised, you can't draw a line for 'acceptable usage' - the message is 'as much as you can afford and have the mind to'.

With illegality, the line is 'none whatsoever'. In subverting the law we are conciously forced to accept responsibility for our use, because we know there is a formal consequence (even if it doesn't happen all that often) for us being caught in the act. Once legalised, people can unconciously defer their responsibility - they have the right to use drugs, and no one will be able to tell them shouldn't if they want to. This is part of the problem we have with alcohol.

My point is that, in Britain at least, there exists a prevalent attitude with a substantial portion of drug users (both legal and illegal) that excess of drugs is fine (alcohol being my main example) - yet we all know excessive consumption causes a wide range of problems, both to the well being of the individual and those around them.

I think underaged sex and the high teenage pregnancy rate here (something that is verified by the numbers) stem from the same sort of attitudes. Rising obesity, the same deal - just with food and excercise. 'Do what you want to, worry about it later'. This is what I mean by immaturity.

Think about 'Britain's Abroad', booze cruises, the fact we have television shows like 'Ibiza Uncovered' and the like, which essentially portray the British need to have a jolly good binge, regardless of its consequences. I don't know of any other country where watching people being horrrendously, humiliatingly drunk on TV counts as a form of social commentary, but seemingly it does here. Its something we are well known for on the continent, if not beyond that.

What I'm saying is we will have to accept and deal with the consequences of other people's excesses. The reason it will be different from the situation now is that it will be legally permissible for those exceses to exist - in a way it currently isn't. Even if the numbers don't change that much, the attitude will.

The fundamental question is this: if you give someone a right, how do you ensure they exercise the responsibilities that go with that right? How do you legalise something in a free market, and then say 'this far and no further'?

Maybe I'm being highly cynical, maybe all the media hysteria got to me. Plus, I'm with you on the issue from every other standpoint (overcrowded prisons, rehab centers, wasted resources, perpetuating lies etc.). However, right here, right now, I can't see everyone handling it like adults.

"you can't draw a line for 'acceptable usage' - the message is 'as much as you can afford and have the mind to'." - I'm not sure that is the message that is trying to be sent, even if people tend to go to that level. Just because alcohol is legal doesn't mean binge drinking is promoted by alcohol companies, most of the time they end their ads with "drink responsibly"- whether or not people choose to follow that advice.

I live in America, by the way, and I think we are portrayed rather carelessly as well. As far as everyone is concerned we seem to be number one for the consumption assholes of the world in pretty much every category from oil to drugs to the environment. I'm not familiar with the shows you are talking about, but if you've ever seen any of our reality television, you'll see a bunch of 20 somethings getting SHITFACED on MTV's buck and making fools out of themselves for America's entertainment. I share the feeling with you that our mentality has become more and more "laugh now, cry later" about things like that.

But here's the thing: While I think the gov't is accountable for the legality piece of this, I don't think they are for personal responsibility. You can't "make sure" that people act with good judgment, and I don't expect that piece of the drug issue from the government. That is up to people who chose to participate in drug use- right now, we have some people who can handle it "like adults" and some who can't and that will be true whether or not drugs are illegal.

Good convo btw, I love to be able to get a perspective of someone who isn't it America. Does everyone think we're total assholes or what?

On a number of levels (predominantly the current government line) yes. Your society so is large and diverse, though, that anyone who stereotypes Americans is bound to be wrong. All the Americans I have personally encountered have been great. I wouldn't like to be judged by the British stereotype either.

I figured you were American when you mentioned dollars, but as this was a British story I thought you were being geo-economic (I don't know if thats even a term, but you get what I mean). I had a whole British disclaimer at the beginning that I deleted because I thought I was being patronising!

Drink responsibly appears in the *tiniest* lettering on our alcohol advertising thesedays, we have pretty harsh anti-drink-driving ads, and no ads whatsoever for smoking. I saw a documentary once that charted the rise of the 'alco-pop' in the late 80s-early 90s. It was originally intended to encourage more females to drink, but had an unintended (?) sprawl into the underage market. That, I think, was a major turning point in our drinking culture, and one of the many catalysts in our culture of diminished responsibility. Nowadays, pretty much all alcohol advertising is aimed at 18-30s, catching aspirational teenagers in the process.

You're right about the responsibility issue, it should be down to the individual. But in a nation as small as ours, issues tend to be more condensed. If you live in a city, everyone's issues are in everyone elses face. Kids are growing up too fast, many say, or are acquiring all the trappings of adult life without any of the 'wisdom' or 'responsibility' that comes with it. The national buzz word is 'anti-social behaviour'. There's an issue of the 'homogenisation of the high street', where small businesses are being ousted by large chains, so every shopping district looks the same. I can't imagine issues of this nature featuring very high on the American political agenda. You've far too much land and other things to worry about such trifling issues.

I've enjoyed this as well, we must argue again some time :)

The plant itself might not be a drug, but it does contain a drug; specifically, a drug that is classified as a controlled substance by the gov't. I think that's the distinction they make.

The coca plant is also illegal even though, in its natural, unprocessed state, it's also just a plant. Coca leaves are used to make teas and are chewed on for their medicinal effects, which should not be confused with the effects of coke, crack, etc. Coca leaves are not addictive, unlike the various evil step-children that are produced from the plant. Only the Stepan Company has been authorized by the DEA to import coca leaves. They do work for Coca-Cola.

Yes, I've seen locals chewing on the coca leaves on television- in that natural form, it's obviously much less addictive and dangerous...

I just wonder where drug classification comes from- caffeine, nicotine, alcohol- these drugs are legal and yet very addictive and dangerous (well, caffeine has mixed research). What is the difference between a "chemical" and a "drug"?

Like I said before, I question all the things the"government tells us about drugs and their effects. How much of it is propaganda and how much is science? I just can't be sure!

A drug is a chemical which effects the brain

That is the extremely vague description of what a drug is.

basically anything you put in you.

"All street drugs would be safer if they were FDA regulated."

If street drugs became regulated, this would more than likely make street drugs even more dangerous, if the government is controlling supply you think theyre going to put potent stuff out there? and for the people that want something stronger where do you think they go?

but even that aside, FDA approved cocaine? FDA approved heroin?

lets review the FDA's mission statement shall we
"The FDA is responsible for protecting the public health by assuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, medical devices, our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, and products that emit radiation. The FDA is also responsible for advancing the public health by helping to speed innovations that make medicines and foods more effective, safer, and more affordable; and helping the public get the accurate, science-based information they need to use medicines and foods to improve their health."

good luck getting that FDA approved meth...NOW WITH MORE CALCIUM FOR STRONGER BONES!

If you legalize one...ALL has to be. There is no amount of difference that wouldn't make you look just like the government when dictating what is "healthy" and what isn't.

All or nothing.

And?

If the world removed labels from their products the world would lose some stupid people.

Should we regulate murder as well. I know...we can create a stadium where people can hash out their problems by attacking one another with weapons. Maybe even have the crowd decide if someone should die or not...

I do not think that just because idiots die or get hurt for trying drugs is a good enough reason to make them legal. As if that problem will go away with regulation.

They have regulation of meat and still they have to recall....so it's not a failsafe option.

I could careless if someone who wants drugs dies from a bad batch....their addictive mistake.

J Jammer that's an incredibly stupid post, I don't even know where to begin destroying it... I'll start at the start, as is tradition.

"If the world removed labels from their products the world would lose some stupid people. "

And old people, young people, disabled people and maybe even some white males ages 18-39.
and anyway what does that have to do with anything, it works as neither a metaphor nor a simile.

Drugs are specific, bad people fuck about with them for cost reasons, if people could get pure medical grade stuff, a lot less people would die.
Even if these saved lives are stupid people they are peoples mother daughters sons and fathers.

Doctors take and oath of do no harm. should politicians not do the same.

the law does not take into account how people live their lives or what people want, or human nature in general.

IT CAUSES HARM.

If drugs were legal i could be reliant that they were 99.9% pure, conformed to B.P. standards and would do What i expected them to. Like any other compound on my shelf.
I'm a chemist. without labels how the fuck could i do anything?

3,4-methylenedioxy- N-methylamphetamine - MDMA - that's what ecstasy is, nothing else. oh but when you buy it, you don't know whats there hell there may be no MDMA at all. but you'd rather have people, who'll buy it anyway, actually have to take a chance...

Almost all drugs have useful properties beyond the recreational use.

codine is a direct descendent of Morphine and Heroin, so next time you have a cough you better thank them.

"Should we regulate murder as well. I know...we can create a stadium where people can hash out their problems by attacking one another with weapons. Maybe even have the crowd decide if someone should die or not."

Brilliant, insightful, genius, are just some of the words i won't be using to describe this paragraph.

For a start we do regulate murder, it's called jail.
If you are comparing drugs with murder weapons the you must have invented a knife that stabs only its owner...

Drugs are for PERSONAL use.
steve takes some x....you don't die. hmmm why is that.
oh that's right it doesn't effect you.

"I do not think that just because idiots die or get hurt for trying drugs is a good enough reason to make them legal. As if that problem will go away with regulation."

so everything stays the same even though its clearly not working. we shouldn't do anything to save the "idiots"

Why do most people who die on illegal drugs actually die?
by far: Crappy product. also combinations that create worse drugs internally, not knowing limits/what you should do on drug y.

The biggest problem would instantly be gone.
Plenty of money would be available for education on drugs, their dangers, precaution you could take and what not to do.

If loads of idiots die because they don't wear seatbelts, the reasonable response is make the mandatory in all cars, and educate the public in their use. What How Where and Why.

"They have regulation of meat and still they have to recall....so it's not a failsafe option."

you do understand just how different food and pharmaceutical industries are yeah?
Of course there is no ultimate failsafe. but there are many many that make products the next best thing.
Do you realise just how tested drugs are?
But how much safer is medical grade stuff compared to whats on the street?
Your calculator wouldn't have suffcient memory for the size of the number.

"I could careless if someone who wants drugs dies from a bad batch....their addictive mistake."

How completely heartless of you.
I'd almost hope that situation on you if it wasn't such an awful thing to happen to someone.

How can you not think that we should try to help people
If society wants drugs, and they have proven time and again they do, should we not ensure that they have clean pure safe drugs.
If we clearly can see organised crime feeds on this should we not take corrective measure to drive a much bigger scourge than drugs out of our lives?

If you are importing illegal drugs, how long do you think you would do inside?
Now you are risking your entire life and someone muscles in on you, why wouldn't you kill them? and bam, gang violence and a society in decline.

Ecstasy is totally harmless. But it sucks when you get MDA because you buy it from some guy in Camden when you can't get hold of a good dealer and you end up chewing your cheeks to shreds.

I'm actually a sugar addict myself.

12 cups of tea x 3 heaped spoons a day.

The last thing i heard about ecstasy was that you had a 50% chance of living each time you take it... I don't think its nearly as bad as we propagate it to be. Just like anything else, excessive use can be detrimental.

If it did you'd die of an aneurysm immediately

Ecstacy can be a gangerous drug to mix with alcohol, but otherwise its very safe, and thats according to scientists, not politicians

Agreed - completamente.

If Ecstacy put holes in your brain, mine would look like Swiss cheese!!! Trust me when I say i have taken more "X" than anyone you know, probably close to 3000 hits. And yes, it does have an affect on you, but for me it did nothing but benefit me. Before use I was very depressed and couldn't find happiness. I am now clean, and wake up every morning happy with the day at hand and content.
Don't believe the hipe everyone, it's time to get over the stigma. It's time to Legalize and Capitalize!