EU president rules out sanctions against Russia

Russia did the same thing America would do if someone invaded say, Mexico. You cannot have fighting on your border it messes with you own security. We are hypocrites and thank the gods that Georgia was not in NATO at the time or we would be fighting Russia right now.

Hi Walks_in_Storms!

I meant that I came from a military family. The other posters implication that I was a blind dupe of the Russian propogand machine led me to try and explain who I am and why I began to see the world the way I do. My father was in the 10th Special Forces and his Dad was the engineer that created and installed systems for loading the rather large objects onto the planes. He was also the first to realize that they can't be dropped per say, because of the weight loss the planes wings would shear off. The plane had to do a dive and during that moment they were released.
Being a boy from such a family was interesting as a boy, but later I understood that I carried a tremendous responsibility for the crimes of the overall criminal structure that the US government obeyed and it's horrific crimes against humanity. So I decided to serve peace instead. I never could quite convert to a perfect pacifist but I guess that's ok. I learned to love enemies because a lack of love for those which you do battle with means you can only feel hate or fear in regards to them. That of course leaves one not in control of ones own fate to a worse degree. Also loving ones enemy allows one to remember to love oneself in dangerous moments where one wrong move will cost you your life or worse. Keeping a cooler head and deciding to take the most rational way at times is also a great advantage in many ways. That's some of the uniquie background I am made up of. That's all I meant to convey.

"I don't know about you? But I can find any newspaper I wish to read

Clearly doesn't look like a lack of information to me. "

I am guessing you are in the US. I remember the fullness (BS) of the newspapers that I read from the time I was a teenager till about 25 when I got out of Dodge for good!

I have more than adequate information to believe that in the near future the western medias will be forced to admit that there were alot of "mistakes" made in reporting the true state of events on the Caucasus.

The lies won't hold water for many reasons, this time. I won't elaborate just as yet.

Hopefully my fellow Americans will have access to a more adequate description of these events very soon.

Good luck all!

"So, why are you Commenting here and why haven't you raised your Voice to CNN, BBC and the Media to tell them and the rest they all have it wrong? Why haven't you contacted the Media and the People that might help you reveal the reality to Americans!?"

Gee, if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell of a mainstream-corporate owned tow the line slave ship of a newspaper or tv channel news that would actually help get the truth to the American people, then I would be beatin the door down to tell em all about it! Gee whiz ;-) Actually I've been invited to appear in some non-mainstream media outlets soon. I won't say the names now, but I hope you read about me later.

Besides, people go to the internet to get news they can't find in the mainstream informational livestock feeders.

Urah! Urah! Urah! Medvedov signed acknowledgemeant of Southern Ossetian and Abkhazian independence! Urah! Urah! Urah! My congradulations to all for whom that long awaited news brings hope for them and their children's future! A deep bow before all those who sacrificed, paying the highest price!

So, why are you Commenting here and why haven't you raised your Voice to CNN, BBC and the Media to tell them and the rest they all have it wrong? Why haven't you contacted the Media and the People that might help you reveal the reality to Americans!?

Actually I'm a US born American that has been closely examining all real developments in Russia for the last 16 years by living here and tapping the most wide range of sources. I have close friends from Tkhinzval, Southern Ossetia and I have been a Southern Ossetian volunteer for 8 years now. My sources of info are impeccable and the official news in Russia actually reflects the truth around the situation.

Being the son of 1960's Special Forces Elite - instructor whose father worked on the Manhattan Project, my transformation from killer elite to ecological and peacemaking activities as a teenager in the 80's has given me a quite broad scope to view all things to be considered.

For many a decade the US military and the shadowy US powers that be have done only things to make the American people feel rightfully ashamed about the actions of their powers. Nothing has changed and I see no reasoning behind your "blind" sympathizing with such powers and their disinformation that cheats the US people out of what they really need, the truth.

After we overthrew the old Soviet powers, the CIA and they're powers that be tried effortlessly to bring the communists back to power in Russia, they even tried to help some kind of nationalist tendency, but nothing worked and we found a good guy to replace our old friend Boris Yeltsin. If you don't want to end up such soar losers and rightly so, then you need to take careful consideration of what you support.

What are the words "De Opresso Libre" worth if the commanders all the way up to the ruling elite are a rotten bunch of maggots not worth the shit they will go back to some day?

Please don't take offense Petarro, if you just go to this link you will see that the "liar" is VOA - Voice of America! I agree with you 100%, they usually do lie ;-)

http://voanews.com/english/2008-08-25-voa35.cfm

What is this!? There is no EU President. That Picture is not the EU President. The Current EU "President" is Sarkozy.

This post is yet another feed from a Liar.

European news is begining to get the truth out to the public and that is why the Europeans are not willing to go along with US pressure to "punish Russia". They know the truth about the horrible genocide commited by the US/Georgian forces will come out because in Europe it is impossible to control information like it is in the US. After it comes out in the Europe then it will finally come out in the US. The sooner the better.

Or were some of you duped into thinking McCain is the man you need?

By the way, the photo correspondent that I mentioned, Gleb Garanich is a Reuters photo correspondent. Do you remember those photos from Gori?

Also on the Youtube,today, I saw video material of the same actors that were being simultaneously photographed by Garanich in Gori near the burning residential buildings. In the background you can here a woman loudly asking, "why did all those people leave those buildings yesterday? Did they know that their buildings were going to be bombed?", then you hear a man's voice, "just shut up".

By the way, Georgian lies about 15,000 refugees leaving Southern Ossetia are absurd when only 2000 Georgian civillians resided there. Only two percent of the population. Ossetians can never lift a hand against women, children elderly or ararmed people because they live by a very strict code of honour that binds there behaviour fast.

Georgians however have a terrible tradition of always killing women and children, moreover Georgian commanding officers have been giving Georgian soldiers orders to rape all women and children before executing them since as far back as 1920. Rape became a terrible and ingrain part of Georgian civillian culture to this day, when the Persians invaded and had orders to kill all Georgian men and children and elderly while constantly raping the women and girls who were to be spared yet to have one of their achilles tendons severed as a mark that they had been raped at least once. Later, the last survivng Georgian warlord sent a letter to the Russian Empress Katherine and asked for help, explaining how they hold people head first over the edge of bridges forcing them to refuse their Christianity or be dropped into gorges. Persians tested their baldes sharpness by lifting Georgian children up by a foot and slicing them in two with ease if the blade was sharpened enough. The Russian Empress sent troops immediately and saved what was left of the Georgian people.

Why are the Georgian people being so grotesquely tuned against Russia when Russia has always been a friend to the Georgian people?

Georgian civillians that were interviewed thanked the Russian Army and Ministry of Emergency Situations for stopping banditism and distributing the first humanitarian aid to arrive in Gori. They said they don't want war with Russia and blamed Saakhashvili and called for his removal. Saakhashvili by the way is that villain and dictator who represses his own people to be remembered like Pinochet, Batista or any of the other US backed fascist dictator!

The US powers that be don't have much left to work with and they will lose this information war! Time has come for the great collapse of the US mafia-political system! We'll just give it a little nudge, obviously they already used the rope they had to hang themselves by commiting ethnic purges in Southern Ossetia. Which we will prove to the entire US public. Lies about Georgian victims of purges will be disproven because their is no authentic evidence to support it.

-Yours Truly,
An American Citizen turned Southern Ossetian Volunteer

Just after midnight on the 8th of August, Georgian forces released volley after volley of Grad and Uragan surface to surface rockets on the city of Tkhinzval, that has a population of 100,000 Ossetian residents. A battalion of eighteen truck based Grad systems can release over 700 rockets in a single volley. The Georgians used at least 40 systems for hours and hours plus heavy artillery, howitzers and the much more devastating rocket system Uragan as well (carries 100 kilos of high explosives in each rocket). Just counting the Grad rockets alone will bring the figure up to many thousands of surface to surface rockets hitting a city full of civillians.

When the city was leveled the Georgian troops poured in to Tkhinzval and they had orders to spare nobody's life. They executed women and childre, threw grenades and fired tank shots into the basements where the civillians were hiding. The Georgian forces also set up ambush points along the road out of Tkhinzval to Northern Ossetia to kill anyone trying to escape. Georgian forces had orders to execute all 100,000 residents of the city and not let anyone escape. Later they blew up an irrigation canal and flooded the basements of the whole city purposefully to drive the civillians out of the basements so that the snipers could kill them all. Ten villages were burned and most of their residents were executed in ethnic purges. All of the 100,000 Ossetians would have been purged from the land if the Russian army had not arrived the same day, just hours after the Georgians entered the city.

When the Georgian forces heard that the Russian forces were coming, they retreated, abandoning Tkhinzval without a fight. The Russian forces never fired on Tkhinzval. The Georgian forces did return the next day and attack the Russian defense forces around the city, but the Russian's never fired on the city.

Russian forces bombed a radar station and military wharehouses outside of Gori in Georgia but they did not bomb residential buildings. For the sake of propoganda, Georgian forces fired rockets at Georgian residential buildings in Gori so that they could make anti-Russian propoganda.

Later, photographs from Gori, which depicted the victims of "so called Russian bombs" in residential regions, were exposed as falsifications. The Ukrainian photo correspondent Gleb Garanich admitted during an interview with Echo-Moskva correspondent Alexei Venedictov, to using models/actors who pretended to be dead or wounded. He justified this by stating that he couldn't ask anyone to bring the real dead bodies back so that he could photograph them, so he created his own "photo-interpretation".
Also there are two files about the Ossetian girl who was cut short of speaking in live broadcast on Fox News and also the CBC broadcast where Condileeza Rice was asked a question she didn't want to answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiNcXA2CTSk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtdVS8646GI&NR=1

Obviously, the US government did nothing to stop Saakhashvili and knew about what he was going to do because the Georgian forces began preparing for the attack more than a month before it happened. This was probably a provocation spun by US powers that be to force Russia into intervening for the sake of pre-election anti-Russian politics in America. What a terrible price to get more Republican votes!

What about a more reasonable deduction. After all, Russia has only done a very noble and humane thing by saving 100,000 people from organized systematic extermination. Western media is so full of lies, however they have greatly miscalculated their ability to manipulate information. This one cannot be covered up and the truth will come out! The American people will be shocked and ashamed like never before when they learn the truth about what the US government did in Southern Ossetia.

Here's a list of neglected and critical points which will be brought to the mainstream American mind:
Russian forces were given orders to go to Southern Ossetia only after more than a thousand civillians were killed and the Georgian forces closed the Ossetians in, not letting anyone escape and were killing everyone regardless of age or sex.

Southern Ossetia's population of Ossetians was 98%. More than 100,000 Ossetians lived there and about 2000 Georgians lived there.

In the Soviet Union there was only one central government and Georgia did not exist as a country or government. In Stalin's period Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia were included into Georgia by the central Soviet government and not by the local Georgian authorities. It was included into Georgia only for convienence in distributing central Soviet resources. Southern Ossetia and Abkhazia have been defacto independent from Georgia since just before the end of the Soviet Union and therefore have never been a part of Georgia at all. Georgia's attempt to annex Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia is repressive imperialistic expansionism with re-occuring attempts to ethnically purge Ossetians and Abkhazians from thier own land. Southern Ossetia and Abkhazia have never been linked to Georgia in culture, language or history.

Well if you examine the chain of events why are there not sanctions being levied against Georgia? http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

the frankness of what russia does in comparison to america's facade does not make "everything just fine"..

what it does do.. ironically.. is illustrate how america is the one that tries to make "everything just fine" by using convenient and calculated labels which glorify false pretenses and dehumanize any party which opposes their true agenda..

and therein lies the difference.. russia does not need to turn this into an epic struggle between right and wrong in an attempt to win people over.. they don't care and they don't need to care.. one of the hidden benefits from america outlasting the soviets in the cold war is that it has allowed russia to be true to its own national interests without having to paint every action it takes with a moral brush to justify what it does.. america suffers from its own grandeur.. exacerbating its own situation with the poor decisions that it makes..

peace..

Welcome to revelations
Where are the Bush Administrations Nazi statements

Europe punks out again
America is forced to run he world by default
Pussies

Very interesting article about Russia Georgia war
Read it here
http://russia-usa.blogspot.com/

russia does not need to play games with the rest of the world to save face.. they don't attempt to validate their actions by hiding behind coalitions and using UN resolutions to justify their agendas..

So you are making it sound as if that makes everything just fine.
So Russia's agenda is this. Agree with us, or we do not deliver natural gas to you

so bush = hitler, iraq = georgia, usa = russia?

if you want to simplify things, don't pick and choose.. the world has big countries and little countries and most everyone is trying to get an edge on one another to get the biggest piece of the pie.. there is no good or bad.. it is the game that nations play and all you can do is watch out for yourself on an individual basis and expect to be lied to..

personally.. i do not accept that line of thinking.. it appears to imply that humankind is aggressive, disorderly, and sneaky by nature.. that there can be no respect for others on an individual or social level..

not to mention the fact that things are just more complicated than that.. just a few brief examples..

georgia is in russia's backyard while iraq is halfway around the world from america.. the risks posed by each situation (especially when looking at the first gulf war) were entirely different..

hitler was WAYYYY more intelligent than bush could ever dream of being..

and one other thing that i think is worth mentioning.. russia does not need to play games with the rest of the world to save face.. they don't attempt to validate their actions by hiding behind coalitions and using UN resolutions to justify their agendas.. don't get me wrong, russia has issues too.. but at least they are big enough to be frank about most of what they do.. it is as if to say.. "we do what we believe is best and that is all there is to it.. deal with it.."

by the way.. if the EU were to propose sanctions against russia, then fairness would require it to sanction every other country which has violated sovereign territory.. america being at the very top of that list..

peace..

No, they are inundated with anti-American propaganda

The real story here is that Europe is not innundated with anti-russian propaganda unlike the U.S.

I don't think the EU is as worried about the Thermonuclear warheads, as they are about the natural gas that Russia supplies.
Why do you think we are not standing up to Russia?
Natural gas, they have it, we want it.
We have thermonuclear warheads also. But do you really think that will even become an issue?

Why is anyone surprised that a major nation will not be rebuked? What good did it do when France and Germany stood against the US with this stupid Iraq war?
I see nothing pragmatic about a group of nations turning their back on a bad situation in order to placate the guys with the big guns. If anything it shows Russia that they truly can act with impunity because they have thermonuclear devices trained at their enemies. At what point does the EU take a stand, will they be able to really do anything by then?
Also, where does action by the US really fit in here? I mean, I know we've concluded a deal with Poland, but other than that we haven't committed anything to Georgia so far, and we really haven't even made overtures toward defending them other than condemning the movements of both governments and drawing up some peace papers... right?

Georgia invaded Southern Ossetia. Russia repelled the attack and is holding a firm stance in Georgia. The U.S. would do the same in Russia's place, as any stronger country would do if faced with similar circumstances by a much weaker country. One could argue the U.S. might not act with so much restraint.

It is easy to make the argument that the EU is witholding on sanctions because they recognize Georgia was in the wrong in the first place. And that Russia is doing what any other powerful country would do.

It is similarly easy to add to the argument that the EU is looking after it's own interests in access to fuel by witholding sanctions as well.

This isn't rocket science jammer. If you could put away the inane comments and conspiracy theory, and sit on your fingers for a while you might learn something.

Russia is not a member of OPEC. They do not have to abide by a contract. They can cancel at any time they wish.

Mr Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin promised to work together to "reduce volatility and enhance predictability" in world oil markets.

Both countries are seen as wanting more Russian oil to enter the US, which has been reliant for imports mostly on countries in the Opec producers' cartel.

But Russia, which is not an Opec member, is believed to have mapped a future in denting the cartel's market share.

The US, meanwhile, is seen as keen on decreasing its dependence on the Middle East for oil.

Mr Khodorkovsky told BBC News Online that Yukos and its rivals would be able to fill the gap in the market if Opec cut its production.

I wasn't making a joke about it.
It's not funny on either side.

And that's the side you stand on.

What do you mean?
That was my interpretation of Putin telling the UN what they have to do.

Haha, I've got oil,, and natural gas, you depend on us, so you either come around to our thinking. Or you can freeze this Winter.

I wonder... when are these other governments going to get it through their heads that there is nothing they can do to force a larger nation to stop picking on a smaller one and trying to steal their resources? This reminds me of Desert Storm... and what was the outcome of intervention there? Not good, not good at all. Sometimes it is neccesary to do nothing.

The EU does have a spine, and is sitting bang in the middle of a potential nuclear war between Russia and the US. The day the USA finds itself in a similar position, I'd love to see how much spine it actually has.

Luckily for us, the world is NOT Gilligan's Island. If it were, you'd be the hollow coconut.

They are not willing to state who has done wrong and if this isn't a sign of bullying you side with them will take things away....what is?

You cannot state that one country is a bully and then back another that does everything the same and justify their every waking movement with pretty words.

The EU doesn't have a spine. If the world were Gilligan's Island the EU would be the Howells.

Good call, Vierotchka.

Spineless? Not at all. They are pragmatic and don't toe the mendacious US line.

No suprise, they're spineless. What a shock.