McCain and the Independent vote

scary in that he won't force businesses to leave the country do to unmanageably high taxes?

...Than why is touting that we should drill in ANWAR and that we should have alternative energy?

I disagree. I've voted in every election since '92, when I turned 18, and I've never voted for a major party candidate until this year, when I'll cast my vote for Obama. I'm the quintessential independent voter. I'm voting for Obama solely because of his embrace of post-partisan politics. (This web page explains post-partisan much better than I think I ever could: http://www.radicalmiddle.com/x_postpartisan.htm) Partisanism is the very reason I'm an independent; because it's an obstacle to getting done what CAN get done (i.e. progress). Short of a 3rd Party, it's the only hope, IMO.

"Anything other than a vote for either is a wasted vote as we are a two party system. "

I respectfully disagree with this point, as well. I live in a decidedly red state and my family is almost religiously Democratic (partisanism is as much a mystery to me as religion is). As long as they've lived in this state, their vote has counted as little as mine because of the Electoral College, which discards the minority vote in every state, except Nebraska and Maine.

A more accurate statement, I think, would be "a vote for any party other than the majority party in your state, unless you live in certain Congressional districts in Nebraska or Maine, is a wasted vote". And that's a fact I mourn.

Congratulations and thanks SDLN...for being intelligent enough to use your valuable vote on Obama this year.
: )

What bothers me the most as a non-partisan is that, prior to the 2000 election, when Republicans were faced with the reality of possibly winning the popular vote but losing the Electoral College, they lambasted the Electoral College so relentlessly that it drew my attention (this is where I formed my views of the EC). Democrats defended the Electoral College (the "Founding Fathers were geniuses" argument; "how dare you complain!").

After the results of the election when the opposite occurred, Democrats winning the popular vote and Republicans benefited from the Electoral College, both sides completely reversed their positions!

Damn the American voter! I'll never understand.

Wow that statement certainly flies in the face of accepted history. The United States has always maintained a wealth of political parties. Their contribution to the shaping of our country is pretty well established.

More importantly, as SDLN pointed out, the winner takes all system of the electoral colleges is a bane to democracy. Such a system will always render some votes, even those cast for either major political party, worthless. You could conceivably compound this problem even more when you consider a faithless or erroneous vote of a state elector.

All that being said a vote in this country still represents your approval of a candidate and their political position. When the Democrats and Republicans abandon their disastrous and fiscally irresponsible foreign policy, discontinue unconstitutional and criminal spying and limit their overall policy to the principles of the constitution then they can have my vote. Till then I’m voting third party.

No we are not.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that there are only two parties.

Also, both parties were third parties at one point.

I'm voting Whig! Reinstate slavery! No votes for women!

In regards to the Electoral College, I'm to the right of the Republicans, and to the left of the Democrats. I come from a small state, and I fully support the Electoral College.

The Democrats adopted the anti EC stance because it was politically convenient. I come from a small state, and while we only have two electoral votes, our votes would be even MORE meaningless if we had a direct popular vote-- especially in light of the fact that the city of NYC has something like seven times the population of our entire state.

If we had a direct popular vote, we'd see people going into high population areas only, pandering to high population areas only.

Somebody could feasibly win the presidency just by winning in the cities of NYC, LA, Dallas, Fort Worth, Denver, Chicago, Miami, Boston, Columbus, Cleveland, and Austin.

What about the rest of America?

asherp good point. However, I think you meant 3 electoral votes did you not? No one has only 2, the least you can have is 3.

One arguement sometimes mentioned against the EC is that its extremely random. If California were two states then one half might vote for Republican and the other Democrat. If Uath or Nevada joined Cali then there would be about 65 votes to the Dems and 10 less for the Reps. It all matters about the borders of the state, if a state's borders were changed slightly it could completely change the vote. Besides, the electoral college is based off of population. 2 senators and 1 representative, the higher the population the more representatives thus the more electoral votes.

Sorry about the rambling, but in all honesty the Ec has its pros and cons. Sometimes I favour the EC because it gives farm people and rural areas a voice but other times I find it a random system meant to favor the small states.

asherp writes > "If we had a direct popular vote, we'd see people going into high population areas only, pandering to high population areas only."

As is, candidates focus almost exclusively on the "swing" states (especially Florida, Michigan, and Pennsylvania), ignoring the rest of America because the EC renders those states either decidedly "red" or "blue". To campaign in the states that are already decided is a waste of time and resources. The idea that the EC forces candidates to listen to the smaller states is false, unless that small state also happens to be a swing state, which most likely isn't the case.

Either way, some portion of America will be ignored. Under the EC, the majority of America is ignored while the political minority in 48 states are disenfranchised by having their votes discarded. Under direct election, a minority of America would be ignored while EVERY vote would count.