Analysis: Palin gets back on track, but Biden wins debate

I'm a life long Democrat from poor beginnings & now successful. What makes most of you so hateful toward Sarah Palin?

If you're a Democrat OR Republican with blinders on you're part of the problem. If all you do is spout venom you're part of the problem. If you only vote a straight ticket regardless of the candidate YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.!!!!!

We need change but at what cost & in what form. Change is inevitable. One constant in life is nothing stays the same. Be careful of the change you ask for. Be sure you get the change you think you want. Germany wanted change - they got Hitler. Not a good choice. I am not comparing any candidate to Hitler. Change for the sake of change or radical extreme change?

We have an economic problem. Except the problem loan institutions, it started in the last 2 years. Years that my party, the Democratic party, controlled Congress. 2 1/2 years ago gas was $1.50. When did change - my Dem's were in control.

Both sides created the loan mess years ago & it's just now showing. Folks overextended themselves thru home loans & credit cards. Loan institutions should not have let them but "Joe" has to take part of the blame. Be smart enough to add & realize what you can or can't do. I would live in Florida on the ocean but I can't afford the payment or the hurricane insurance so I will not but myself in that situation.

The war in Iraq? Learn from history. Do you want another Vietnam ending? Pull the troops & see what happens. You risk demoralizing our Army & taking 25 years to repair it again. I watched that happen - I say NOT AGAIN.! Then see how quickly the terrorists recover & hit us at home again. No thanks - lets fight them where THEY live.

I come from an energy state. We must drill now - drill often before the Chinese drill in our waters. Combine that with wind, solar, coal, & nuclear. Produce bio-fuel from farmers crops instead of paying not plant (another of my parties "not so great" ideas). Turn industry loose on other forms of fuels. No one on this planet can beat us when we are at our best. Ingenuity & hard work made us great - now use it to keep us great.

I'm not naive enough to say there isn't any racism but several highly intelligent important black men question Obama's abilities & agenda. Read their words, check it out & come to a rational intelligent decision. With all the venomous hateful talk against Sarah Pallin, that I read above, she is the object of elitist or gender bias. Most middle Americans like the fact that she talks our language & doesn't try to be something she isn't. If you're an elitist snob - admit it first then blast her. The rest of us will understand.

As an educated successful musician I don't like country music or opera. That doesn't make it or me bad. Rap? If you like it - OK. It's not music. Its talking to a beat - no melody or harmony. Check the definition of music. Get my point? It's my educated decision to like or not like certain sounds.

One man above tells the truth - Biden's 17 lies. Go check the Congressional Record.

Both sides are slinging mud & twisting the truth. I wish they wouldn't. Both sides are equal in this regard & if you disagree you are biased toward a candidates. Meaning you have probably made your decision. That's your rightful choice in our democratic society but please find an educated way of defending your choice without the use of venom or vile.

Start with the issues & forget the media or celebrities. Use your god given mind to check the facts for yourself. Make an informed decision. I have & I cannot vote for my party. My belief is John McCain & Sarah Palin give us the best chance at good common sense change & the best chance to defeat our enemies. The best chance forward from the economic & energy problems we face. If you disagree - fine. Disagree with an informed mind without venom.

"palin shmalin" kinda like " oh joe, joe.........."

Palin won decisively only in the minds of inbred idiots.

this election has been going on for3 years and nothing is going to be said that hasn't already been said,and thak god we have early voting i voted two weeks ago i don't care what they say no of them are going to do anything tha the past 8-12 years of this fiasco octy 30th of next year whoever wins the status quo will be going on nothing will have changed because the bureacy will still be running the country

Palin might have gone her own way, but she stuck to the truth, meanwhile Biden looked good and lied his ass off.
Here's some of what he said...

Anyway.

Joe Biden's 14 Lies

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

i thought palin was pretty. she had a soft voice. she was mad cute.
she did better at looking into the camera.
she really did sound like she was selling something (someone said on that on the tweets)
every 5 minutes "John McCain is right, and let me tell you why..."

i liked it when biden got angry. he was all sorts of boredom in the beginning.
i really didn't understand why so many people were saying biden should keep his cool.
eff that, with our government the way it is today.. i'm angry! you angry? i want a leader who's angry.
peacefully angry. you know what i mean.
give me passion any day.

anddd as far as what they were talking about it was all a load of crap so i don't really have many thoughts. :) i think palin easily appeals to republicans on things like government staying out of people's business and lives. (even though i think that's all talk on the mccain side. they're not very consistent) i think it's very unappealing wanting to meddle in the world's affairs though. Stay out of your people's business...stay out of other countries too.
vp debate, boring. but more interesting than the mccain/obama debate, i think :)

I have to say, for the sake of politics, that Biden has definitly won, but he sholud have taken palin down, if he wants true victory....Palin was a disaster as usual, but that pretending of she knows of what she is doing, and hypocrisy about every topic, bothers me..Biden too. For the sake of all truth, justice, and just doing right my real judgement is that neither of them won, because of their decisions upon of which they make, it really wasn't suppose to actually attack each other for competition, but simply telling those who were watching/hacking the debate, upon what they were going to do for the country...So, take that politics! I really, desparately hate politics, because it should'nt be acquired for these kinds of people to decide what to do for this country, it should be us! They are doing most, if not all, the wrong things that we, as people of this country, and world, does want them to do! They are only criminals in the eyes of truth, and innocence..i am a spectator of what they are doing, that is why I am still involved in this chain of hatred, called "Politics".....

When you have roughly 50% of the population of a country the size of the United States openly criticizing your previous movements, pointing out every little mistake you make, you're sure to figure out what you're doing wrong and possibly even fix it. People who posted and responded to previous debates she participated in actually helped her with the prep work for this one. Of course she did better than expected - we all expected her to fall flat on her face. When the expectation is that low, where else could she go but up?

Heh heh, remember when Palin was first announced, and then killed at the RNC, and all us Dems were in a tizzy, resorting to criticizing her lousy Mom-ness and her poor undereducated daughter, or her foppy husband?

So, now Palin didn't fall completely face first into a pile of crap. For instance, she didn't once claim foreign policy cred by virtue of the view from her porch. She never looked like a deer in the headlights.

Yay Sarah!!! She won (on the set of criteria we/she had set up for her... that is, very low expectations).

(Of course, Joe wins if you use the same scale for both candidates, but never mind that...)

So she won. Are we in a tizzy again? I'd say not at all.

Here's a sports analogy that occurs to me about this race... You've got one team that goes undefeated all season, and wins in convincing fashion all the way to the finals. The other squeaks into the post season, and strings together a few miracle wins to also make it to the final. Making it there IS THEIR VICTORY. And no one is surprised when the final contest is both predictable and boring.

Neither Palin nor McCain are sustainable as legitimate choices in this election. Most repugs would admit that. Heck, I think even the candidates would!

Sarah Palin is to serious government what Britney Spears is to Opera.

I think I actually heard her "responses" playing over the speakers even when her lips stopped moving!

Mindlessly repeating talking points ain't gonna do the country a whole helluva a lot of good if she's in office and we get another Hurrican Katrina or another Mortgage Crisis!

We need intelligence!

I am getting frustrated when people think that if Palin doesn't pull a Couric interview she did all right... C'mon she avoided the answers to the questions she was asked, spoke as she was running for VP of the PTA ( darn, you betcha, extra credit for students watching....) She avoided question and went back to the talking points, just to name a few. Can we get some criticism from the media please?

hello i am sarah palin, i am made up of complex parts and have a neural net processor, a learning computer...

1 Biden did a great job, he conveyed facts and the issues to the questions. Unlike Palin who avoided them and told stories about herself.
2 Biden attacked Mccain and his record of not being a maverick but more like a pond in Bush Jr. hands. While Palin couldn't seperate Mccains ideas from those of Bush Jr. (No change there)
3 Biden pointed out the problem of over spending in Iraq and underfunding Afghanistan (where the true terrorist are)
4) Biden pointed out how the rich corporations and oil companies have taxes breaks in the Billions with Mccain! Palin just agreed and said its how we save jobs (Rich man cover up)
5) Biden and Obama bring an end to a war that is costing to many lives and money we need. Mccain and Palin want to continue our occupanies of a country we will never fully control and supporting a war with no real ending.

Palin, and the Repubs, are pathetic.

She answered maybe five of the questions.

She is a frickin cartoon, a master of the moving mouth with nothing coming out.

If she frickin winks at me one more time, I will hunt her down and slap the shit out of her.

She was so frickin cutsey and down homey and folksy that I had to walk out after the first half hour, just to listen to that droning voice of hers for the next hour from another room.

She scares the hell out of me, wanting to expand the role of the VP even more than Chaney did. He RAPED the constituion for 8 years, and this ignorant, egomaniac with 2 years experience wants even more power?

She wants to bomb instead of talk to our problem nations like North Korea, Pakistan, and Iran?

She wants to put an American Embassy in Jerusalem?

She wants to continue the wars????

She is a typical Republican, and they are heading down a very, very dangerous path. She is an insult to all Americans. All I heard from her outside of the few dangerous things she did say were flowery, pretty, folksy, meaningless talk about nothing.

Fucking "Joe Six Pack" What the hell is she? A fucking cheer leader running for Homecoming Queen????

sarah palin is really good at avoiding questions without looking like she's avoiding them. she always reverted back to some folksy alaska mumbo-jumbo and it pacified the people pretty well. however, she still doesn't know jack about real hard facts and policy making. i think people are just surprised that she didn't get stumped by a question, cry, and run off the stage. or throw up onto the podium or something. the expectations were so low, she couldn't possibly live down to them

hey Allsunday
Ok ,.. just what is Palin bingo ? sorry for being out of the loop. I'm new here.

I played Palin bingo and got a double bingo. Anyone else?

And you have to think that the Republican grandees who foisted Palin on the American people knowing what we all now know, are laughing behind their hands at the apparent gullability of the US voter.

No doubt, they are saying among themselves "Well we filled her full of stock phrases which were a whole lot of hot air and we got away with it! She did just exactly what we told her to, we wound her up and let her go and the base is lapping it up. We know that most Republicans will vote for whatever we put up for Pres or VP - they won't see what we can see and do you know what we don't care as long as we win the election. Was that easy or what?"

Well the posts above show that their plan has been foiled - at least by those who can see beyond folksy phrases and winks.

What "Track" is it that Sarah is "back on"?

Be careful with phrasing- try not to use her children's names in ways that sound illicit.

Good grief if this women by chance gets into the white house we will be in trouble.She is a lightweight.

By not answering direct questions,lying about McCains actions that are on record and video, she is a denfinite liablity.
At this time we need a strong,intelligent,savy,President that knows what he is talking about,and not guessing.
One who will put right all the wrong perpetuated by the Bush Adm.
One who will not cave into special interests groups. My vote is for Mr. Obama.

I feel the same way that most of you do in response to the debate... if common sense hasn't kicked in then I don't know what else can. I think regardless of who won the debate or who is a better vp, we need to look down the road and think: whos going to be handling the nuclear codes? whos going to be defending our country and in charge of fixing our economy? Basic general questions... statistically I could say that Mccain has a 1/3 chance of living out his term, I could also say that Obama is going to have a big target on his head where ever he goes... so if one or the other is to occur... Which VP is ready to be president? Who do you feel comfortable with? We can do the if ands or buts and say these things may never happen... but things do happen! our economy is happening! the war in iraq is STILL happening! So, you be the judge...

Pull the string in Sarah's back and one of 3 preprogrammed phrases came out:

(Pull)

"Stop looking backward and talking about the past!"

(Pull)

"You guys wanna raise taxes!"

(Pull)

"We're mavericks and reformers!"

----

Her absolute robotic, soulless persona was fully revealed to America when Joe Biden teared up when discussing the tragedy he experienced as a father when he lost his wife and children....and the robo-bitch without skipping a beat smiled into the camera and started repeating meaningless talking points!

I think Sen. Biden did a masterful job.

Being able to remain calm, focused and professional while standing only several feet away from that face clawing phony-ass Minnesota bullshit folksy accent is a triumph of the human spirit, you betcha! (wink)

Had the debate gone on 1/2 hour longer I seriously believe someone would have punched her....doggone it, you betcha!

(wink, wink....and then wink again!)

Can you imagine this woman taking the lead in a 9/11-style emergency? I dont think so, doggone it!

The one thing that is now very clear from this "debate" is that if Palin ever does become President she will be even more of a puppet than GWB. As many have said above it appears that she is only able to repeat pre-arranged statements and only answers the questions that she has ready answers for but that would not work should she become President.

GWB was fine if he could read off an autocue but if you asked him a question for which he had not received an answer he would flounder. Palin will be the same and would just be a mouthpiece for an unknown, unelected and unaccountable back room team. Is that a fitting outcome for the country that wants to spread democracy around the world? Then you would be able to hear Putin laughing in Alaska. Go figure.

In the final analysis, viewers really wanted to know which one of the VP candidates would make the best president! Remember, these people were not chosen by the people, they were chosen by the VP nominees. Did Sarah Palin do a good job? I would say she did a better job than was expected, but that is always easy to do when the bar is so low. Would I want her to lead the American People in a time of crisis...ABSOLUTELY NOT! The point at issue is not who can recite information that they are given, it's who can think and analyze the information critically...in other words THINK about impact, not just tell us about it.

Also, the insidious reasons for McCain choosing Palin as his running mate has become apparent to all parties and the bad karma he created is coming back to hurt him... Palin keep up the good work! BTW- stop the winking already; it just makes you look DUMBer! Tell me, how many serious politicians (or people for that matter) wink at their audiences when talking about the future of America?

One last point, I find it extremely lame that the worst things the Republicans have to say about Obama-Biden is that they come off to the people as PROFESSORIAL... Since when has being a symbol of "knowledge" and "empowerment" become a bad thing? With the low education rates in this country, it would not hurt the American people to be "schooled" on the issues!

Of course, the majority of people are going to say Biden won. The majority of people are voting for the guy, and mainly because he wants to make the government pay for everything. Oh, people don't have to work hard to support their families anymore, let's just give them money.

"I don't need the country in my uterus telling me what to do with it" - ntense1.

That's brilliant!

I was really annoyed that immediately following the debate an announcer said that Palin did better for her party than Biden did for the Dems. In the same breath he said that she avoided the questions that she didn't want to answer and answered the ones she did. He continued with saying that Biden at times made it about himself. Why should a candidate be complemented for avoiding questions in a nationally televised vice presidential debate? It's wrong for an announcer to give his opinion during the telecast. Viewers should be able to decide for themselves without being swayed by an announcers' opinion of who did better before the telecast is done.

Then the remark about Biden talking about himself too much is just dumb. He talked about Obama plenty. He was right for also talking about his accomplishments because...he's friggen running for vice president! The undecided voters need to see that the Dems have two strong candidates rather than just one. His answers to the questions simply contained more information about American politics than hers (thanks ntense1 for the example). Anyone should be able to see from that debate that his experience dwarfs hers. And if she thinks intelligent people are going to be swayed by the "gosh darn" barnyard speak she's wrong. That's a linguistics ploy. We don't see Obama saying "Yo, yo, yo, what up my brothas and sistas?"

I'm throwing my hands up after last night and it is now completely clear that all Republicans have to do is show up in order to be successful (ie. win by not losing). Biden did an amazing job and his experience and knowledge was so apparent. Palin mostly dodged questions, changed the subject, attacked her opponent and then smiled and related herself to the average Joe. Sadly, this is really all she needed to do because the majority of people in our country are just not intelligent enough to pay attention to the real issues plaguing us right now.

Putting Palin on the ticket was the most extreme form of trickery of US citizens and simply a way to elevate McCain, who without pulling such a radical stunt would not have much going for him. What scares me is that it's actually working. The race is extremely close and people are giving a big 'ol pat on the back to a woman running for VP who can't name any major Supreme Court cases and believes that man lived alongside dinosaurs. So go ahead America...keep giving her a thumbs up. Keep patting her on the back and laughing at her cutsey winks and "doggonits!" Just try to remember that she's not running for president of your local PTA....

Palin's decision to play by her own rules during the debate reinforces the risk that she will play by her own rules if she assumes the Presidency some day.

I'm insulted by the way this debate was handled and received in regards to Sarah Palin. This wasn't a test to see if she would not totally screw up, this was a test to see if she was ready to be our Vice President.. all she proved was that she could recite prepared statements and use rhetoric to avoid questions to which she didn't have answers...

Sidestepping the issues and misquoting 'facts' is not 'doing well'. The republicans were smart, I'll admit, they set the expectations low and that gave her a lot of leeway to seem unprepared without looking completely clueless. But several times during that debate she attacked Senator Obama using senate votes that she either misquoted, took out of context, or votes that McCain had voted the same way as Obama on.

Heres a great example of what I mean

Palin- "Now, Barack Obama and Senator Biden also voted for the largest tax increases in U.S. history. Barack had 94 opportunities to side on the people's side and reduce taxes and 94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction, 94 times."

Biden- "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way. It was a budget procedural vote. John McCain voted the same way. It did not raise taxes. Number two, using the standard that the governor uses, John McCain voted 477 times to raise taxes."

This is just one of the several times that Biden had to correct Palin's facts and I believe things like this, coming prepared to defend against bogus charges that you know your opponent is going to try to use, really show how much more prepared Joe Biden was than Governor Palin.

All in all though it was a good night for both candidates, no major gaffes and it likely won't show too much of a shift in the polls. Biden performed well as expected while avoiding any major slip ups and Palin performed better than her low expectations, she was clear and seemed to know more about the issues then she had shown us in the previous weeks. Those prep sessions really paid off, just not enough to win this debate.

There's no need to read between the lines. Of course, we need to stabilize other countries. As of now, there is no invasion needed. Or war. It depends on their reaction to us. We have to stop terrorists.

And no one can lower our taxes right now. However, Obama is the only candidate who EVER wants to lower them. And please, please, please look at the facts. Repubs were in power SIX years in relation to the Dems TWO years. Whose really at fault? The guy that started the problem or the guy or inherited it?

And the last thing I want is a complete line of justices who all think only one way. America is made up of many types of people and we all deserve to be represented. McCain simply won't give us that. I don't need the country in my uterus telling me what to do with it.

The fact that she didn't messed up a lot does not mean she did well at all. She is an insult to politics and debating. Maybe next time she can ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ASKED INSTEAD OF ANSWERING WHAT SHE FEELS SHOULD BE TALKED ABOUT!!! THIS WAS A DEBATE, NOT A MAVERICK AD, REMEMBER PEOPLE!!!

I'm not much into polls at all, since they're not very accurate. There are several items that bothers me about Obama-Biden.

Cutting the American people's taxes. How do you supposed that the Obama-Biden pair are going to do that? Remember...for every action, there is always an equal and opposite reaction. Remember Bush's "no new taxes?" Don't blame the first Bush for raising taxes during his tenure ... it's the DEMOCRATIC Congress who made that one happen.

Israel and Palestine issue. If you listened very carefully to Biden's debate yesterday, did anyone catch the fact that he wanted to send have NATO fill in over in Palestine? Although Obama-Biden tout the "leave Iraq" party line, really, really read between the lines. They want to send troops to Palestine.

No-fly zones. What does Obama think he's going to solve with this?? Especially in nations that don't even have the capability to fly aircraft.

Supreme Court Justices. The ultimate downfall to our nation will be Obama's choices in new Supreme Court Justices. Look into this and tell me what you think...