Community | October 07, 2008 | 90 comments

Creationist offers prize for fossil proof of evolution

source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/creationist-offers-prize-for-fossil-proof-of-evolu...

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A controversial creationist has offered 10 TRILLION Turkish Lira to anyone who can provide convincing fossil evidence of evolution.
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90 comments // Creationist offers prize for fossil proof of evolution

  • krush_productions
    • 0
      krush_productions  

    • I haven't seen any proof of a god. I don't believe in "it" at all. We have fossils, we have science to date these things to well past the stated date of "creation". I find it hard to believe that a being of greater power would let us shit all over ourselves and not once intervene. Organized major religion is control of a people by fear of the unknown, and yes this is my opinion. Judgment day isn't coming, it's been here everyday since we as a race have climb our way up the food chain (an evolution in itself). Every action we do affects this planet good or bad. We've made our own doomsday. The rapture isn't a group of pissed of horsemen coming down from the heavens, its global warming, its reduced numbers of animal life. Our wars are going to be fought over food and water soon. Stop worrying about some "god" and his wrath, it's a cop out. Living a good christian life will not save you from the problems people have created on this planet.

    • 3 years ago
  • firefighterivchrist
    • 0
      firefighterivchrist  

    • korourke: 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work."

      Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction."

      Yes, the Bible IS the inerrant, complete, revelation of God to men. The first verse makes it clear that God is the author of scripture, even though it was recorded by the hands of men. The closest analogy I can think of is to say that we do not say that because a pencil recorded the words on a page, that it was not written by someone other than the pencil. Rather, the pencil is a tool for the true author. In that same way, although men recorded the words of scripture, they were breathed out by God Himself.

      As for the errors you have said have been introduced, there are actually errors. However, these amount to very slight mispellings that do not change the meaning of any words, let alone any of the major doctrines taught in the bible. We know this because in the mid 1980's, they found the Dead Sea Scrolls, documents that were literally written when Jesus was alive. Upon close examination with the current Hebrew text, there were only a handful of spelling errors (you could count them on your fingers and toes) for the entire Old Testament of the bible. The previous texts that we had before they were found dated back to 1611 or so.

      Upon close examination, the bible has not had any of the additions/subtractions you talk about, and this is based on documents that have been around for the last 2000 years. Also, at the end of the book of Revelation is a curse on anyone who would do exactly what you mentioned. Also, the New Testament was written (most of it) within the first 30 years after Jesus ministry, and they are written either by eyewitnesses or by a close friend of an eyewitness.

      Hope that clarifies that a bit.

    • 3 years ago
  • UrbanGypsy
    • 0
      UrbanGypsy  
    • Image

    • Clearly, the Bible talks about when Moses fought a Velociraptor on Mount Sinai therefore if it says it on the Bible it must therefore be true.

    • 3 years ago
  • firefighterivchrist
  • firefighterivchrist
    • 0
      firefighterivchrist  

    • There are a lot of non-right-wing-conservative-fundamentalist-christians responding, so I'll respond from the other point of view (right-wing-conservative-fundamentalist-christian).

      isnamthere: you asked for a reason to believe in God, I would ask you to consider the following:

      Are you a good person?

      Have you ever lied? (any lie, it doesn't matter how small) If you have, are you not a liar?
      Have you ever stolen anything? (size or value don't matter) If you have, are you not a thief?

      Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I (Christ) say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

      Have you ever looked at someone lustfully? If you have, you've committed adultery.
      Have you ever used God's name in vain (like a cuss word)? If so, that's blaspheme.

      Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

      So if you have answered yes to any of the questions above, then at the end of your life, you have to give an account to God for what you've done, and by His word, you will be thrown into hell. Even if that was a long time ago, your actions still demand justice (God is a perfect judge). And a good judge, a just judge, will not simply let you go because He's loving; there is a debt that demands payment in blood.

      If that concerns you, read on.

      God is a just judge, and demands a payment that we can never give that our sins deserve. However, He knew that we could not pay the price, and sent His son, Jesus Christ, to the cross to pay our debt. Now that the debt is paid, Christ can free anyone who would turn to Him. That turning involves repenting of your sins (not doing them anymore), and obeying His word (the bible).

      If you are unwilling to repent and turn to Christ, God is clear that the price has not been paid for your sins, and you will go to hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save you from that.

      John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"
      --------------
      Stradius: yes, God is omnipotent. No, evolution is not something He created. Simple reasoning rules this out. At the end of the 6 days of creation, God pronounces everything He's made very good. Death isn't a part of the picture until Genesis 3. Also,

      Revelation 21:4:
      "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."

      So in the end, God will remove death. Now, what is needed for evolution to work? What is it that allows the "fittest" to survive? You must have death. Without death, how do you know who the "fittest" are?

      So if God created evolution, and that's what brought man into being, you need death and millions of years in the beginning to get to man; this is not the beginning described by God in His Word, the bible. (In order to be Omnipotent, God must also be Omnicient). God then calls the world with man in it very good, which means if evolution existed, was something God created, He has just called it very good. So why would He remove something from the world if it is very good and was there in the beginning?

      Also, if evolution was something God created and was present when man was created, then what is the explanation of death and suffering? It is no longer the result of our sin, because it is now present before sin; this is also unbiblical.

      God did not create evolution.
      --------------
      JC2011: Matthew 24:36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."

      Christ has said your date for the end is wrong. You cannot know something the Father has not revealed.

    • 3 years ago
  • korourke
    • 0
      korourke  
    • firefighterivchrist:

      You are making the false assumption that the Bible is the direct word of God.

      As I am sure you are well aware, the bible was not written by god, nor by jesus, but by his disciples many years later and translated many times over with many additions and subtractions of books, text and ideas.

      How can you reconcile this in your mind? How can you quote the Bible, follow it word for word and interpret it literally when it was written by human hands, revised/edited and reworked so many times over from the original document?

    • 3 years ago
  • JC2011
    • 0
      JC2011  

    • I am not a muslim myself but by God's mercy, I do know what the truth is and the truth is the word of God. The Bible declares in Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning, God created" The Bible also gives a perfectly accurate calendar of history, it starts from 11013 BC and it will end on 21 May 2011. The Bible has also clearly prophesied that in the end, there would be many who would deny God and this is exactly what we are seeing with this whole ridiculous evolution stuff.

    • 3 years ago
  • crazyc133
    • 0
      crazyc133  

    • There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.

      Modern commentators often misunderstand the meaning of the title of Darwin's book. They take the origin of species to mean the origin of life. Then it is pointed out that Darwin 'failed' to throw light on the origin of life. But this was not Darwin's point. Darwin argued that species- that is the different kinds of organisms we observe- came not from multiple unique creation events on each island or particular place- but instead that species were the modified descendants of earlier forms.

      Notice the use of the words creator and eariler forms. This is taken right from the original "orgin of species" book. It should also be noted that this book is titled "Orgin of Species" not Orgin of life. Creationist or not darwin himself was no evolutionist and I would imagine that this man is to. There is no proof that evolution exist or that it ever has other than wishful thinking by intelligent scientist. Much the same could be said about creationist. I personally support both therories and would love to take this mans money. But I don't think that any one will take his money, now or ever.

    • 3 years ago
  • angeleslos
  • angeleslos
  • let_the_rain_fall
    • 0
      let_the_rain_fall  

    • I have done a lot of studying about "Creation vs. Evolution" and I just can't buy into evolution. I have to ask one question, "were you there?". How do you know all these fossils are that old? Too much estimation and guessing for me. And this guy definetly has the wrong approach to the situation.

    • 3 years ago
  • angeleslos
  • angeleslos
    • 0
      angeleslos  

    • also i really am sorry or i apologize on behalf of real christians out thier that dont judge (dont count my idiot remark that was just frustration, lol ..plus i really know whats really going on in this life time at this exact time for us..and its gonna get ugly)

      but yeah , i can not can not, stand self righteous hypocrite christians out thier, or so called

      they kill souls instead of flesh bodies, and thats the worst

      u can tattoo ur eye and still be a christian..just be humble and without pride..its that simple..

      go head from ex -korn!!!

    • 3 years ago
  • angeleslos
  • superfinet
  • Johnny_Danger
    • 0
      Johnny_Danger  

    • I think its weird when creationist refuse to believe in evolution because they can still believe evolution is the origin of species while not being the origin of life.

    • 3 years ago
  • Nuevarine
  • angeleslos
  • jenrich
  • angeleslos
  • seanalyn
    • 0
      seanalyn  
    • angeleslos:

      Doesnt GOD teach to do unto others? I dont suppose you would like to be called an idiot for what you believe in. Youre entitled to believe in religion just as others are entitled to believe in science.

    • 3 years ago
  • Stradius
    • 0
      Stradius  
    • angeleslos:

      But God created the idiots right? So isn't this whole evolution/creationist thing pretty pointless to discuss?

      Creationists should just stop trying to understand God's will and leave evolution alone. It seems heretical to me for humans to attempt to second-guess God bizness.
      Evolution must be in God's plan proven or not.

    • 3 years ago
  • alicynx
  • isnamthere
  • Emil_G
  • firefighterivchrist
    • 0
      firefighterivchrist  
    • angeleslos:

      isnamthere: you asked for a reason to believe in God, I would ask you to consider the following:

      Are you a good person?

      Have you ever lied? (any lie, it doesn't matter how small) If you have, are you not a liar?
      Have you ever stolen anything? (size or value don't matter) If you have, are you not a thief?

      Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I (Christ) say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

      Have you ever looked at someone lustfully? If you have, you've committed adultery.
      Have you ever used God's name in vain (like a cuss word)? If so, that's blaspheme.

      Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

      So if you have answered yes to any of the questions above, then at the end of your life, you have to give an account to God for what you've done, and by His word, you will be thrown into hell. Even if that was a long time ago, your actions still demand justice (God is a perfect judge). And a good judge, a just judge, will not simply let you go because He's loving; there is a debt that demands payment in blood.

      If that concerns you, read on.

      God is a just judge, and demands a payment that we can never give that our sins deserve. However, He knew that we could not pay the price, and sent His son, Jesus Christ, to the cross to pay our debt. Now that the debt is paid, Christ can free anyone who would turn to Him. That turning involves repenting of your sins (not doing them anymore), and obeying His word (the bible).

      If you are unwilling to repent and turn to Christ, God is clear that the price has not been paid for your sins, and you will go to hell. Jesus Christ is the only one who can save you from that.

      John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"
      --------------

      angeleslos: seanalyn was correct in his rebuke to you.

      Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.
      And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

      The second-most important commandment is to love others as yourself, meaning that you already love youself enough, and you should treat others that way as well. However, seanalyn, the first commandment is to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. If you do not love Jesus Christ, you cannot love others as yourself.

      Also, angeleslos, anyone who believes God doesn't exist isn't an idiot, but deceived. See the following:

      2 Corinthians 4:4-6 "In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

      They do not know God because satan has blinded them. Also, to paraphrase CS Lewis, if they are not believers but instead have made themselves enemies of God (and our enemies because we are His children), we are under orders to pray for them.

    • 3 years ago
  • myndperception
    • 0
      myndperception  

    • didnt they find fossil proof that fish grew thumbs a few days ago?

      it was posted here on current.

      can i get a percentage of the cash for mentioning that?

    • 3 years ago
  • poosta7
  • ubergoober
    • 0
      ubergoober  
    • poosta7:

      "didnt they find fossil proof that fish grew thumbs a few days ago?

      it was posted here on current.

      can i get a percentage of the cash for mentioning that? "

      well, there was a text message, and it did seem a bit fishy...

    • 3 years ago
  • Jkeentauna
  • Stradius
    • 0
      Stradius  

    • I get so tired of this "issue"... because it's a NON-ISSUE.

      Whether you're a creationist OR an evolutionist please READ MY SIMPLE STATEMENTS:

      God is Omnipotent... right? Can we all agree that if you believe in God that's what he/she/it is? All-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful? If you don't believe this about God, then what business do you have believing in God?

      THEREFORE... what we discover about our natural universe and our evolution as a species is only SCIENCE. There is plenty of evidence that evolution happens and it's a natural part of our universe.

      Now, creationists, listen to me and repeat:
      God Created Evolution.

      Science will always exist and it is good but God is omnipotent so we'll NEVER fully understand the mysteries of our universe's creation and thereby God is still safe!

      Now I'll just rant a little bit: Who the heck do you think you are anyway to decide you need to "defend" an omnipotent God and creationism anyway? God needs no defenders... especially lowlifes like us who put our petty human agendas before His creations.

      What God needs is for you to stop wasting your resources fighting to prove or disprove something that you believe in and start living day-to-day like you do believe in God... evolution is NOT a danger to God, nor even to creationism. Evolution is only a danger to you because it would make the pictures of Adam and Eve different than the King James rewrite.

      Keep your doubts to yourself and stop letting them interfere with the natural work of God's creation: Science.

    • 3 years ago
  • zealotohio
  • lxluigixl
  • readyforthefloor
  • PajamaDan
    • 0
      PajamaDan  

    • Proof is only proof if you believe it. And believing does not always mean fact. And a gajillionillion bucks says a creationist will never accept evolution as fact.

    • 3 years ago
  • Saladin
    • 0
      Saladin  

    • I recommend that everyone watch AronRa's series on creationists on youtube, he's brilliant. This is one of about 12 videos, all of which are equally great.

      This is CLASSIC creationist "moving the post" bullshit. Literally straight out of the Kent Hovind book.

      They have no intention of trying to make scientists produce anything because they KNOW there are HUNDREDS of transitional fossils that would easily invalidate their claims. It's standard neo-con bullshit, just lie big and keep lying and eventually people will believe you.

      Even though they're disproven at every turn, as long as they keep repeating the same message pretend like they never lost over and over again, they still convince uninformed people.

      Don't think this is new, Creationists have been using the same arguments for DECADES. They never abandon ANY line of reasoning regardless of how poor, how inept and how utterly false it is.

      They're con men and fraudsters, nothing more. Guess where Kent Hovind is today? Jail for tax fraud. How about Ted Haggard? How are him and that gay prostitute doing?

      The Fundamentalist movement in America is about -control- of simple people. How do you think Republicans convince people to vote completely against their own interest? By wedging in issues like this.

    • 3 years ago
  • Illari
    • 0
      Illari  

    • How about he gives his money to a cause to people who need it and can effect THE PRESENT and wake up to realize that creationism vs evolution just does not matter.

    • 3 years ago
  • dankitti
  • straightshots
  • Fliam
    • 0
      Fliam  

    • "provide convincing fossil evidence of evolution"
      So in order to get the money, you need to convince this man through fossil evidence that there has been evolution... this is probably going to be pretty difficult seeing that he believes in creationism, which has no evidence other than whats written in a book, for free...

    • 3 years ago
  • korourke
    • 0
      korourke  

    • This guy is in for a serious lawsuit when he doesn't want to pay up...

      So in essence, he will be providing his OWN support for survival of the fittest, as his money will be transferred to someone more intelligent than he is...

    • 3 years ago
  • JohnnyElectrifying
    • 0
      JohnnyElectrifying  

    • Forget Pike Cichlids, though they provide a compelling argument.

      We don't even need fossil evidence: look inside a live whale.

      Two Words: Vestigial Structures...hooraaay, evolution!

      I'll take the reward in large bills, thanks.

    • 3 years ago
  • etjazzist
    • 0
      etjazzist  
    • JohnnyElectrifying:

      Vestigial Structures in a whale?

      Somehow i don't think a whale would quite agree with you...

      "The pelvic bones of whales serve as attachments for the musculature associated with the penis in males and its homologue, the clitoris, in females. The muscle involved is known as the ischiocavernosus and is quite a powerful muscle in males. It serves as a retractor muscle for the penis in copulation and probably provides the base for lateral movements of the penis. The mechanisms of penile motion are not well understood in whales. The penis seems to be capable of a lot of independent motion, much like the trunk of an elephant. How much of this is mediated by the ischiocavernosus is not known.

      In females the anatomical parts are smaller and more diffuse. I would imagine that there is something homologous to the perineal muscles in man and tetrapods, which affect the entire pelvic area - the clitoris, vagina and anus.

      The pelvic rudiments also serve as origins for the ischiocaudalis muscle, which is a ventral muscle that inserts on the tips of the chevron bones of the spinal column and acts to flex the tail in normal locomotion."

      -James G. Mead, Ph.D.
      Curator of Marine Mammals, MRC 108
      National Museum of Natural History
      Smithsonian Institution

    • 3 years ago
  • cherry_darling
  • nyingma13
    • 0
      nyingma13  

    • If it's fossils he's interested in, he should have a palaeontologist examine his brain, as it is definitely stuck in the distant past.

    • 3 years ago
  • sleepnomore
    • 0
      sleepnomore  

    • Evolutionist have shown Macro changes but not Micro. Micro is needed to show that the theory of evolution is true. Otherwise it's just animals adapting to their environment.

    • 3 years ago
  • greenaddie
    • 0
      greenaddie  
    • sleepnomore:

      Adaptation is micro evolution. Adaptation implies a genetic change that better suits an organism to survive in their environment. A series of micro evolutions can lead to a macro evolution over time. Any change made by an organism individually to accommodate their environment that doesn't occur at the genetic level (i.e.- growing thicker fur to deal with colder temperatures) is not adaptation, it's acclimation. Regarding missing links, every new link found provides two more missing links. But the fossil record is a series of snap shots, not a full length feature film, and that does not discount its value as proof of evolution.

    • 3 years ago
  • alicynx
  • Humdrum
    • 0
      Humdrum  

    • I tend to agree with the sentiment that he'll only pay up if he ever completely abandons his blind, crystallized faith.
      Fat chance.

    • 3 years ago
  • ryanroe
  • mikesupertramp
  • richjm
    • 0
      richjm  

    • What a second... does he even have the money in the first place?

      If I'm going to scrabble around in the hot, dry Nevada desert, looking for fossils, I want a bit more on the table than an IOU, his watch and the contents of his wallet.

    • 3 years ago
  • emmahill
  • iloveravi
    • 0
      iloveravi  
    • Image

    • will this help?

      from article:

      n what could be a first in the world, a fish species known as cichlids has been discovered by scientists in the act of splitting into two distinct species in Lake Victoria, Africa’s largest lake and one of the world’s biggest fresh water bodies.

      This may be remarkable because what is causing them to diverge are adaptations to their vision as animals and plants try to cope with increased pollution and the effects of climate change.

      more at link.

    • 3 years ago
  • Johnny_Danger
  • hawk5000
  • BenDorries
    • 0
      BenDorries  

    • "I'll give 1 trillion turkish lira for anyone that can prove my butt" is basically what this guy is saying.

      The only proof that will suffice for him is actually going back in time and watching lizards turn into dinosaurs and mammals and such.

    • 3 years ago
  • HolyCity2012
  • jonny2times
  • HolyCity2012
  • MiguelSanchez
    • 0
      MiguelSanchez  

    • 10,000,000,000,000 Turkish Lira = 4,229,884,152,035.32 UK pounds.

      That's enough to help you and the next thirty generations of your family through the credit crunch.

    • 3 years ago
  • HolyCity2012
  • Hellenbach
  • HolyCity2012
  • CCashman
  • UrbanGypsy
  • poosta7
  • straightshots
  • joshuaheller
  • des10
  • purplefox
    • 0
      purplefox  

    • Some archeologist's gonna be pretty rich at this rate, I reckon, since, uuh, I believe fossil evidence has pretty much already proved the process of evolution several times over.

      Of course, convincing the guy to pay up would be another matter.

    • 3 years ago
  • bishopobispo
  • emmahill
  • UrbanGypsy
  • seanalyn
  • Johnny_Danger
  • isnamthere
  • Johnny_Danger
  • Reeseismyname
  • zeith2000
  • nikkitah101
  • UrbanGypsy
    • 0
      UrbanGypsy  
    • bishopobispo:

      @ nikkitah101 and zeith2000

      That would be a bad wager because its impossible to prove that something that does not exist does not exist. The onus is on religious people to prove that God does exist.

      You say that God exists and all we say is "Prove it". So far no one has done it. The same goes for unicorns and dragons. Just because I can't prove that dragons don't exist doesn't mean that its more likely that they do. The onus is on the one making the claim, not on the skeptic....

    • 3 years ago
  • JanaPokana
  • isnamthere
  • nkeg87
  • yonie
  • des10
    • 0
      des10  
    • JanaPokana:

      it's fossil proof he's taking his bets on. why should it be much trouble for people who believe in evolution? supposing the theory of evolution is real, with millions of fossils around the world, why should there be any problem at all? that's the real issue he's proposing.

    • 3 years ago
  • fountaingoats
    • 0
      fountaingoats  
    • JanaPokana:

      des10, you miss the point. There already IS a large body of fossil evidence supporting evolution, but no "proof." That doesn't mean it isn't fact - proof is a tricky thing in the world of science. For example, there's no "proof" of gravity, yet we all know it exists because we feel its force every day. There are lots of demonstrable examples of gravity, but no way to "prove" it exists. The same is true for evolution.

    • 3 years ago
  • rainbowryan420
  • abbym0308
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