'Human catastrophe' grips Congo

Right SAN. x^ P

"They just need to get their act together....?!?" There is alot of trouble there, yes, and the media loves to show the most poverty-stricken areas, overtaken by wars, famine and disease, but don't get it twisted. There are plenty of examples of prosperity and rapidly developing economies in some of these African nations like Ghana and Chad. Botswana has been praised for its stable and transparent and profitable business practices. There was a time Africa and its many nations ruled, just like Rome once, just like China's great dynasties, just like we are now the the super power, we'll all take our turns at prosperity.

Where there is hunger, there is war, especially when other countries furnish these hungry people with guns and watch them kill themselves. If more people thought like you, this planet would be a disgusting place to be.

You use Chad as an examples of prosperity and rapidly developing economy? Here's some fact for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/country_profiles/1068700.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/country_profiles/1068674.stm

You can google more facts on your own if needed. And while Ghana and Botswana are doing "relatively" well by African standard, its hardly comparable to other parts of the world.

Am I wrong to say that the african people need to learn to become self-reliant and focus on becoming productive instead of "reproductive"? Africa can't blame the whole world for it's misery. It's all about taking responsibility of your own life. Have you ever wondered why you see so many starving african kids when they shouldn't be born in the first place?

Ethiopia is experiencing another famine, but contrary to popular belief, the land is in fact fertile. If you really need a link, I'll find that for you as well. I'm not sure how you can compare African civilazation to Rome and China when nothing of historical values were left to confirm it. And before you use Egypt as an example, they were actually closely linked to contemporary persians more than they were africans

If people think like me, the problems in africa will be solved by itself, believe it or not. Ever heard of Darwin's theory of Evolution - Natural Selection/ Survival of the fittest?

x^ P back at you...

Yes African "nations", (because Africa is not just one country, there are many countries that make up the continent, which is what annoys me about your argument to begin with) needs to be self reliant, I'm not disputing that . I'm disputing your 'screw them' mentality. We can go back and forth on facts to support what we believe, but just as there is hunger and war, there is promise as well. And please re-read what I said about Africa being once a great nation. It was once quite self sustaining, and rich on its own gold and it's own kingdoms, so yes, I dare compare. My, the audacity to compare Africa, the land of grass wearing, barefoot savages to the likes of China right?

Where in my response did I say that Africa was one nation, I'm not as stupid as your president... But do I really need to list ALL of the countries that either suffer from poverty, wars, famine or/and disease instead of just writing Africa? That's gonna be a looong list then...

You said media loves to show the most poverty-stricken areas, overtaken by wars, famine and disease, but when they don't, then you will say Western countries don't care about Africa. So how do you want it and what have you yourself done to help Africa?

You are welcome to show me more of your "facts" and I'll be more than welcome to analyse it.

"screw them" mentality and self-reliance kinda go together. You can't become self-reliant and expect help from other countries. Africa has been recieving aides for many decades already and what has changed? I wish Africa well and hope people in the continent overcome all the conflicts and sufferings, but they really have to take part in doing something about it instead of just complaining...

And I don't really care who you compare Africa to as I'm not that Afrocentric, but I will just let the continent speak for itself

Your well wishes I'm sure are appreciated.
What have I done for Africa? I was in Bulawayo Zimbabwe for a month back in 98 with my classmates, and helped build a school there. You've given up hope for them. How much have you actually done?

The notion that they're sitting around "complaining" as you put it astounds me. I didn't meet one person there who was begging or crying for help. I brought up what the media shows and Africas good part to bring up the fact that they're not all a complete loss. Despite what you think I'm one of those people who always says alot of these African nations need to become self reliant. I say that about my parents home country Haiti all the time. Haiti has never gotten off the ground since they kicked the french out. There's no excuse for that. It's pathetic. But their problems run deep and honestly, throwing money at the problem hasn't necessarily worked as corruption and greed always seems to be the ruling power. However, despite this point, your solution to let them drown is crass. Do you think the people themselves are sitting around waiting for someone to save them? You don't think they want to be able to feed themselves, work, and live without fear? Their plight is alot more complicated than a sink or swim solution. Perhaps if you visited the country yourself, you'd have less of a bigoted view on things.

Typical bigoted rhetoric. It is true that many African nations are struggling, but there is no mention of the devastating effects of colonialism has had on her. It's easy to point a finger from a distance, but I would challenge you to actually do some reading on the causes of the current situation as opposed to a quick wiki search. The nations of Africa are the most exploited people on the face of the earth, due much in large part to the greed of foreign nations raping the resources of the world's richest continent from them. There is something to be said about personal responsibility of course, but there are very real external forces that work very hard to keep Africa in the state that it is in. And it is prejudiced, uneducated opinions such as yours San, that allow these people to be continuously abused. Please, take educate yourself before your bigoted views embarrass you any further. For your sake.

Neghie, I don't think my view is bigoted as you may think. In fact, I've been travelling to more than 29 countries spread across 5 continets, and although none of them lies in African continent, I do expect to go there within the near future. Perhaps my view about Africa might change once I'm there or perhaps not, but I'll keep an open mind about it.

However, I wished you could keep your afrocentric view aside and see the problems from a more balanced and objective way. The article I'm about to show you was written by a smart black american who holds a doctorate degree in Economics and he shares my view 100 %, so I hope it would be easier for afrocentric people like you to digest the truth as I really can't be bothered to keep arguing with you forever.
You need to read more and educate yourself!!!

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5120

Not convined? Here's a few more

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4311

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4312

The Trouble with Africa: Why Foreign Aid Isn't Working:
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?isbn=9781403971258

The False Promise of Aid to Africa:
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3979

Why Africa Is Still Starving:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901080818-1829841,00.html

There's a book called Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins. While the book is about South America, the exploitation mechanism applies to African continent as well, go read it, if your view hasn't changed, nothing will.

Areoh

I'm not embarrassed at all as I have done enough readings more than just wiki and now it's your turn. The links I've provided goes to you as well.

You said there are external forces that work very hard to keep Africa in the state that it is in. That's absolutely correct and sometimes it comes in the name of foreign aid, believe it or not. The aides are not completely "free" as there are some preconditions that african countries need to comply with before they get the aides. Read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins. While the book is about South America, the exploitation mechanism works exact same way in Africa.

I took a look at some of your links, San. Ha, you may think the color of the author validates your opinions, but after reading them, they are simply more of the conservative rhetoric that continues to blame the victim without offering any realistic or plausible solutions. Now, let's break this down. As I said before, there is something to be said about personal responsibility, but the assumption that the African simply sit around and do nothing is simply irresponsible, and a completely illogical premise. I will even submit that there is a problem with corruption in many African nation, an example being Mugabe and the situation in Zimbabwe. But again, this is nothing new, for we have our own problems with that here as well, and does not account for the extreme poverty. Let's take it a bit above your basic and ground level reasoning and talk about economic policy. Don't worry, I'll cite some things for you to read as well.

I would invite you to read about the policies instituted about the IMF and World Bank, which claim to support the development efforts in Africa, but in reality on introduced a culture of debt and economic servitude that tightens every year. One of the main reasons that poverty has been sustained is the undermining and blatantly unfair advantage of being able to set the market on needed goods, despite the hardships that many Africans face. And this is just one effect of their policies.

Another example of the European CAP system as it applies stiff taxes to imported goods. This completely undermines African progress as well, considering you are paying more in import/export taxes than the actual worth of your product. And this affects the whole of Africa in most brutal way. It is very difficult to maintain any sort of economic stability in the face of a blatantly unfair trade policy.

Admittedly San, your half baked premise does have some merit on a basic level. People should make an effort to improve their lives. However, I will say again, I think it is very arrogant and quite bigoted to assume that Africans are not familiar with this basic concept. Your views need to be massaged with a bit of truth concerning the many factors of Africa's situation, or, as your comments show you to be, you are just another ignorant conservative who simply has no idea what they are talking about. I hope you do take the opportunity to educate yourself so your conversations concerning Africa are relevant.

Info about CAP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy

Africa and the IMF & World Bank - READ THE ARTICLE AND REFERENCES
http://www.africaaction.org/action/sap0204.htm

And I've read the book you've cited. It surprises me your opinions are still so underdeveloped after reading such a thing. This only makes me question your reasoning even more...

AreOh,

I think my arguments are pretty relevant, otherwise you wouldn't spend time writing such a lengthy reply.

Personally, I really don't care about the skind color of the author, but I have the impression that if I use an article that were written by a non-black person, he would be considered a bigoted racist by black people. But when it came from an educated black person, it makes it a bit harder for you to pull the racist bigot card. A bit like when 2 black persons can call each other niggers witout any problems, but if other races are calling them niggers then damn, hell breaks loose.

I don't know why you keep attacking me when you seem to agree with the points that I've made. If you take a good read of the links that I've provided and YOURS. They can pretty much be summarized in one sentence that:

"the foreign aid and intervention are causing problems in Africa and should thus be avoided"

Can you agree with me on that one?

This leads to the conclusion that Africa needs to become self-reliant and self-sustainable because other parts of the world will always find a way to exploit them (sometimes, disguised as foreign aid). As you've pointed out, African agriculture industry can never compete with the European due to CAP, thus it's very important that african countries create their own market and thus become self-sustainable. Sorry to say this, but unless they find a way to protect themselves, many african countries will be doomed to fail 'cause no one can really help them out of troubles but themselves. People will always take advantage of each other, that's the harsh reality.

Seeing that you can agree with me in many points, I can only conclude that the reason you're attacking me is because you're afrocentric black and can't stand critisism about Africa. But I guess that's your problem...

That's two more times you have referenced color in an attempt to validate your thoughts. Ha, that's a point of discussion in and of itself. Hm, I see your assumption are a big part of the problem. I'll keep this short, because I see you have no desire to speak honestly. As I stated previously, there is merit in your basic premise of personal responsibility. That's cool. We should all strive to be better personally. But no, I don't agree with your overall sentiment. Quite simply your opinions lack any critical thinking and eschew any acknowledgement to the exploitation, detailed in articles submitted, to the very real factors that plague Africa. This is just ignorance. Your attempts to misconstrue my words is amusing, but still lack any real validity. Ha, and I don't attack people. I attack ideas. And your conclusion that my problem is that I am an 'afro centric black' is laughable at best. Ha, this only reveals the underlying prejudice in your thought process. If you don't care about color, ha, then stop using it as crutch. Seeing that you are incapable of having an honest discussion about the facts, I'll leave you be. I hope a day will come when your opinions will actually be relevant.

I have no desire to speak honestly??? What should I be dishonest about? and why should I lie?

Taking personal responsibily IS my overall sentiment. What else would it be? And what's your view on the real factors that plague Africa? I would very much like to hear it but so far you have come up with NONE!!!

You claim that you don't attack people and yet you call me an ignorant bigot while at the same time agree with the points I made...

WTF is your problem???

Update;

A) We already don't listen to anything the UN says

B) We USED to run the world, but not so much nowdays

C) We can supply guns and ammo to Africa very well from where we are, we don't need to go over there to do that.

D) Unless they discover some huge untapped natural resource, you will not see a American "Humanitarian" effort over there anytime soon.

Just the sad facts of our countries foreign policy... sorry

You can start by showing your true indentity. That would be a good start, and if this crisis in the congo truly outrages you then start to to organize, mobilize, take action by meeting with your representives. The issues in the congo are critical and it's going to take a whole lot more than a bunch of emotional spill-over to resolve the conflict. The congo is not just a black or white issue. The conflict is about greedy political stakeholders so high up that you could potentially drown in their spew.

Good luck! in you personally taking action!

Thats just the problem. The reality of this is that its Africa. The majority of the caucasian dominated world does not care about Africa therefore nobody demonstrates.

Furthermore, our own government in America has more interest in letting these governments be overthrown in order to side with the new leaders in hopes to gain more influence on African Oil.

AFRICOM its a reality....

How about the outreach from everyone. This shouldn't be categorized by who should help the most because of color. All of us need to pitch in and do something about this human disaster.

I agree. It can feel overwhelming, but one step at a time, and people can make a difference.

Ok,so what do you think we should do?Hears an Idea,pull our troops out of Iraq,send them home,then send in a small ocupational force,Army,Navy and Marines,take on a tactical front,find this mad man rebel leader,kill him,disarm ,or,if they dont wish to give up their arms,kill the rebels where they stand.THEN,hold their goverments feet to the fire ,to to alow humanitarian aid to enter the country,un incombered and watched over by U.S. troops,not the U.N.and not the goverment troops,and then hold free elections to put a man,or woman in office,who the people want.All the medica,educational,and humanitarian aid in the world isnt worth dip,if this mad rebel leader is burning ,killing,,rapeing the country side He has to be stopped,now,and the U.S. has the power to do so,if they wanted it,and thats the question,do they want it?