Prop. 8 to ban same sex marriage leading so far

this is what totally gets my goat on this: this is a secular country that holds it to be a self evident truth that all are created equal and yet people that are "offended" by anothers PEACEFUL lifestyle are refusing to recognize the relationships between these people as equal. this is not for the public to decide on a moral level because in this country you are supposed to live according to your own moral code, not a government mandated one. you are completly free to completly offend someone without harming them. if you believe that being gay is wrong or a sin, take a moment and try to "love thy neighbor as you love yourself" and try not to "judge lest ye be judged" and allow this person the dignity to live as they see fit and you live your own life. you can disagree with it, as is your right, and they can disagree with you as is their right. in this country, you can live your way. it is expected that we have the maturity and the patriotism to uphold our constitution and tip our hat to those we are morally opposed to in order to support the freedoms you both share. that this is even an issue, is a threat to the constitution which is the only source of pride we have left. dont you dare even think that a violation of civil lberties and a refusal of equal recognition of "alternitave" lifestyles is a victory for America. this is deplorable.

One thing we need to understand is that some people completely believe that homosexuality is sinfull, immoral and wrong.

Following this, it makes sense that they want to help save these people and help society be clean and virtuous.

The problem with this are that in passing a law that they voted on based on their religious beliefs that restricts people's rights is going against one of the main principles this country is based on which is separation of church and state. They are forcing their beliefs on others and that is wrong.

Along with this, if making the community a cleaner and more moral place are important to these people why don't they work harder to control people who are actually causing harm to the community? The gay community is non violent and generally not very disruptive to society.
Why don't you work harder to control gang activity or create better ways of decreasing teenage pregnancy?

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

this is horrible. for a country that touts itself as "the land of the free", It sure doesn't do a good job at really representing those interests. America learned its lesson once already, and you would think that's enough. prop 8 is unfair and wrong. If someone decided to take away your rights, you would definitely be up in arms over the issue. Why should people be allowed to vote on something so unconstitutional, let alone why is it even on the ballot?

I say put aside religious beliefs for one moment, and see how absolutely abhorrent this proposition really is.

Discrimination is wrong...
Prop 8 is wrong
I voted No because the government should not be regulating how people want to live their lives when it comes to this kind of Right.

I really thought that California had less prejudice and descrimination than that.

elect an African-American president
keep the gays from marrying
and living anything close to a normal life
without persecution and discrimination

a step forward
a step back

NO on Prop 8!!!

I believe this is a crime. We are denying people their civil rights. I don't know how on the day we elect our first minority president does something like this happen. Yes yesterday showed us how far we have come but it also shows us how much further we have to go.

Bwire, your church fearing hatred will touch non of our ears. even if Prop 8 passes gays won't start dropping off the face of the planet. The war on drugs doesn't affect my choice to smoke marijuana. So why should some stupid bill tell people they can't be together?

so sad this passed. while the majority of voters might have approved, I hope the supreme court can do something as this is a violation of rights. since when did America make it a point to take away rights?

Also, anyone that says "it's a democracy, we can do what we want simply because there are more of us" -

You have no right to vote on what civil rights another law-abiding American citizen gets.
You have an opinion about it?
Big fuckin deal. It doesn't even concern you.
If we went by your foolish logic, segregation would still be legal.

This is yet another area in which the founding fathers can help us out -

"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him."
~Thomas Jefferson

"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."
~Thomas Jefferson (thanks SDLN)

“That the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of the history of the whole world”
~John Adams

Again, much more where that came from - look it up.

Better yet, read the Constitution.
You can't just decide people are second-class citizens because you want to keep your tree house exclusive.

I am constantly in awe of how many so-called "patriots" have no idea what it means to be American.

Voting to strip law-abiding citizens of their civil rights may be "democratic," but it is FAR from American.

"Majority is always right" = "The strong are always right" = the Law of the Jungle.
I suppose every lynch mob had every right to hang innocent black people, because they outnumbered the black people.

You people are not thinking.

A sad day, and devastating news for California's gay citizens!

Immorality does not grant equality..........This has nothing at all to do with hate or bigotry, but rather of personal convictions. I will always vote for what I believe is true and right, because I believe that that is what is best for our society as a whole. Those who are committing the indecency may be opposed to our point of view, but I'm sure people who commit crimes are against laws that would give them harsher sentences as well. Although the 2 are not completely related, they are related by the concept of morality, and I can only hope that that morality that Californians displayed today will continue to persist through time.

Marriage encourages men to share the burdens of child rearing and binds fathers to their children.

· Marriage provides the optimal setting in which mothers and fathers can raise their own boys and girls to enter a world that consists exclusively of men and women.

· A procreative marriage, one where children are the offspring of the husband and wife, is more stable and long lasting—the husband and wife have the added incentive of keeping the relationship healthy and alive since leaving it involves leaving their natural children.

· As the societal building block, the family has also developed as the best gauge—the canary in the mine—that protects culture from harmful change. Since change can harm men, women, and children (and the family as a whole), the most effective harbinger of detrimental societal change is the traditional family.

· Marriage between one man and one woman is perfectly integrated by sex. An identical number of men and women get married each year, side-by-side, hand-in-hand. The mechanism of marriage is perfectly balanced. No man may become a husband unless a woman becomes a wife at the same moment.

· Marriage has been the societal building block for millennia; it has developed as the method by which cultures pass on, from generation to generation, who and what they are. Since cultures are made up of men, women and children, to effectively pass on cultural values the family should reflect the cultural makeup of one man, one woman (an equal number), and their natural children where possible

Answer this: How did Calif​ornia​ vote Obama​ as the first​ black​ presi​dent and at the same time pass 8 that discr​imina​tes again​st gays? Did they feel bad about voting yes on 8, so they voted for Obama? How can discrimination live on at a time like this?

It good prop 8 went ahead at least some ppl have common sense in this day and age !

State isnt telling us what marriage is ... PPL think that both your Parents were of the same sex do you think you would be messed up or do u prefer the logic of having a mother and a father under the pretext of marriage .....

To anyone bringing "God" into the equation, much less stating that the United States is somehow a "Christian nation" -

Please look up the Treaty of Tripoli.

"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
~ Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams.

And then there's this...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
~First Amendment of the US Constitution

If that's not enough, here are just a few of MANY quotes made by our founding fathers regarding religion in government/ Christianity.
The last thing they wanted was a government playing the role of priests or religious scholars.
The last thing they wanted was religion in government.
Read for yourself.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
~Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
~Thomas Jefferson

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
~Benjamin Franklin

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think his System of Morals, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity..."
~Benjamin Franklin

“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”
~ John Adams

If you voted for Prop 8, or a similar law, or would have if given the chance - all in order to deny law-abiding American citizens equal civil rights, with the reasoning that "the bible says so..."

...then you are about as un-American as one can be.
You're just too ignorant to realize it.

Even if we lose this one, we still have a chance to contest it at nation's Supreme Court. And even if that doesn't work, we can still contest it at the midterm elections by adding onto the ballot, a constitutional amendment to allow same-sex marriage.

This is ridiculous. Religion and hatred should play no part in our constitution and the lives of others. Californians, you have disappointed me greatly so.

Good. You see, our anatomy works kind of like a pencil sharpener.

Yes to Prop 8 .

I can only think of one word: Discrimination.

My parents lived in an era where a black person could not marry a white person, and segregationists and Christian identity groups back then claimed that several verses in the Bible, for example the story of Phinehas and the so-called "curse of Ham", should be understood as referring to miscegenation and that these verses expressly forbid it. In 1958, Christian fundamentalist preacher Jerry Falwell in a sermon railed against integration, warning that it would lead to miscegenation, which would "destroy our [white] race eventually." But, in 1967, the United States Supreme Court ruled in Loving v. Virginia that miscegenation laws were unconstitutional. With such ruling, the laws were no longer in effect in the remaining 16 states that still had them.

One day soon, I hope, we shall also see these laws now passed (gays can't marry, gays cannot adopt, etc.) as what they really are: Civil Rights infringements.

Praise the Lord; there's a very bright light on this somewhat grim occasion!!

When I voted against Prop 8 this was my general thinking.
The state shouldn't be telling anyone what marriage is. The state should be keeping religion away from the subject and only issuing civil unions.
If the state does define what marriage is it has a responsibility to the people to make sure that everyone is included under that definition.

Prop 8 is discriminatory and I'm appalled at its existence, let alone its probability of passing.

Were do you draw the line, Civil Union work just as well. Let the definition of marriage be between a man & a women.....Its not just Mormons all religions in the world would say Yes to Prop 8 Marriage is a scared institution which should stay that way. That brings you to the question there has to be some common sense moral Laws .........I feel a touch of Roman & Greek history should be studied

It will be a sad day for many Californians, including myself, to see Prop 8 pass.

What I don't understand is why people keep trying to put their religious belief in State issues? Do they not realize that not everyone has the same religious beliefs as them? Do people not realize that not everyone is the same but we are still entitled to every right under law?

If they want to start segregating people, by all means, let's do it. I want to start by segregating the many Christians who attack abortion clinics. I want to start by segregating those Christians (or Individuals) who molest children. I want to start by segregating those Christians (or Individuals) who support the "God Hates Fags" movement. I want to start segregating those individuals who get divorced after marriage. I want to start segregating those individuals who abuse their children and their spouses.

How ironic that Mormon's are behind a movement to trample the constitution on Marriage...the Mormons...Polygamy!!!

WOW!

If this Prop exposed anything it was the self-righteousness and hypocrisy of many "Christians" who had their kids working the corners, cursing at those opposed, physically attacking people...all Christian qualities used to spread the word of God.

WOW!

I can't believe I live in a State that would vote to actually take away rights. Shock!

I am glad they are doing this state by state. We are so used to federal laws on everything. State laws seem almost trivial.

I'm so disappointed that prop 8 looks like its going to pass. Honestly how can people justify passing something like this that won't affect them and will affect countless others that they've never even met?

If Prop 8 passes it will be a stain on an otherwise glorious election. Nevertheless, the tide has changed. The forces of darkness and ignorance will be defeated.

It's not about bigotry or civil rights, it's about living in a democracy, the people voted, it's done. New President, New Laws; Win Some, Lose Some

Obama wins the state but those who support him and the idea of Hope & Change don't know what that actually entails or there would be a no to this.

Guess some who stated those who are for Obama are smarter did not take into account California.

Current results according to the LA Times website http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-result...

With 92.3% precincts reporting it's 51.9% for and 48.1% against. This really isn't looking good. I'm still holding out hope though.

okay. I live in FL so its prop 2 here, but I feel the same about this as I always have. Im not gay, but some family members and friends of mine are. They are all upstanding people who work very hard to try to do the best they can, just like anyone else. If they were to get married and enjoy the same tax breaks as anyone else, I just dont understand how this hurts anyone. Not to even mention the emotional end of it, because if someone told me I couldnt marry my boyfriend based simply on my gender, Id be pissed. Passing this amendment is a slap in the face of gay people everywhere, who deserve all the same rights as anyone else. Maybe these issues wouldnt be so hard for the people who wanted this to pass if theyd just mind thier own damn business.
dont hate-Ashley

This is deeply saddening. This should not cause uneasiness from any one group in particular, but for all of us. This was indeed a good day for the U.S. however, this is certainly a sad note. Let us not sit idly by while our rights are taken away. . .

Admittedly, I'm not a huge supporter of gay rights. As a hetero, the whole gay thing seems completely foreign to me. But my political views have been greatly influenced by the writings of our founding fathers. The following quote of Thomas Jefferson is perhaps most influential of what I've read:

"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."

I don't have any "gay" friends. Of all the gay people married in Cali in the previous months, not a one has had the least bit of influence on my life. Consequently, their liberty to marry has not violated my equal rights in any manner whatsoever. And "rightful liberty" would certainly support such a right to marry.

Related story here at current:

Myspace's hateful message

http://current.com/items/89490282_myspace_s_hateful_message

I'm freaking out... this is too much pressure!

Is anyone really surprised? I donated 25.00 to no on 8. If I wanted to get a no on 8 sign I had to pay 8.00 for the sign and 7.00 for shipping and wait 2 weeks. If I wanted a yes on 8 all I would have had to do was go to church where they handed them out. The no on 8 campaign was unorganized and very last minute. We need to gather signatures and do something about it. The votes cast for 8 are far from a mandate.

First Religion shunned interracial marriages.
As a society we were able to rise above.
Now their aim is to shun Homosexual marriages.
As a society we need to rise above.

"All You Need Is Love" John Lennon

WOW! this really sucks... why are people scared of other people who are different? normal things are boring... i hope it doesn't take 100 years..

If this is a civil rights issue than so is polygamy. Yet nobody on the left runs to their cause. Why? Just a thought.

If a man and a man should have the right to marry than why not a man a woman and a woman, or better yet a woman, a man, and a man? Why doesn't the left fight for them? If this is truly about civil rights where is the battle cry for polygamists. Is it because you don't like that it is mostly associated with religion? But then again Hefner is living it everyday, he just doesn't a have a license.

It's not over yet. They haven't counted all of California's votes yet. We'll have to see tomorrow about the results of the ballots.

As of 11:50PM, with 47% votes counted

PROPOSITION 1A-HIGH SPEED RAIL BOND
Total Reporting:47%
Name Votes Pct.
YES 2,763,045 52%
NO 2,594,198 48%

PROPOSITION 2-FARM ANIMAL TREATMENT
Total Reporting:47%
Name Votes Pct.
x YES 3,384,374 62%
NO 2,044,202 38%

PROPOSITION 3-CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL BOND
Total Reporting:47%
Name Votes Pct.
YES 2,760,926 52%
NO 2,568,882 48%

PROPOSITION 4-RESTRICT MINOR'S ABORTION
Total Reporting:47%
Name Votes Pct.
NO 2,841,080 52%
YES 2,579,572 48%

PROPOSITION 5-DRUG OFFENDER SENTENCING
Total Reporting:48%
Name Votes Pct.
x NO 3,348,461 61%
YES 2,166,039 39%

PROPOSITION 6-LAW ENFORCEMENT FUNDING
Total Reporting:48%
Name Votes Pct.
x NO 3,762,288 70%
YES 1,624,103 30%

PROPOSITION 7-RENEWABLE ENERGY
Total Reporting:48%
Name Votes Pct.
x NO 3,633,797 66%
YES 1,875,533 34%

PROPOSITION 8-SAME-SEX MARRIAGE BAN
Total Reporting:49%
Name Votes Pct.
YES 3,044,558 53%
NO 2,749,109 47%

PROPOSITION 9-VICTIMS' RIGHTS
Total Reporting:48%
Name Votes Pct.
YES 2,881,810 53%
NO 2,517,137 47%

PROPOSITION 10-ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES
Total Reporting:48%
Name Votes Pct.
x NO 3,370,603 62%
YES 2,094,917 38%

PROPOSITION 11-REDISTRICTING
Total Reporting:48%
Name Votes Pct.
YES 2,687,061 51%
NO 2,532,367 49%

PROPOSITION 12-VETERANS BOND ACT
Total Reporting:48%
Name Votes Pct.
x YES 3,351,703 62%
NO 2,017,261 38%

sigh...
civil rights take 1 step back.
So sick of this, it is the constitutional right of every same sex couple to have marriage rights equal to that of any heterosexual married couple. Who are you to deny any one their right; this is how institutionalized racism was allowed to exist.

It is much more significant (as Rachel Maddow pointed out) in that these are existing rights now being taken away. I am happy my vote helped to elect President Obama, but now I am looking forward hopefully to some presidential influence in the support of the GLBT community.

I don't think gay marriage should even be an issue, people are free to live their own lives and make their own decisions. Why the fuck would I care if two guys get married? That's their choice and I don't have to be part of it.

Gay marriage is being defeated all over the country tonight. Not just in California. And it's not just McCain supporters as California went big for Obama. The American people have spoken out for traditional marriage tonight.

Humans have a long way to go and just a bit of history repeating if it is indeed banned.

great news to hear.
let's keep the definition of marriage as it was intended to be.

seriously?

$78,000,000 was spent backing prop 8. Please take a moment and realize the good this money could have brought to many people who are in need. Instead it went to bigotry.