Priest says being gay is a gift from God

"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34)

"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)

"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back ." (Titus 2:9)

Do you keep quiet in church and where a scarf when praying?

Do you think it's ok for people to own slaves, that people should have their hand cut off if they get caught stealing, and that illegitimate children shouldn't bother to go to church because they're not getting into heaven anyways?

If you believe these things then you're a nut case, and if you don't, your opinion on gay marriage wont be taken serious because you're a hypocrite.

If you say the whole bible is the word of God and pick and choose what to believe is right, you're a hypocrite.

Bigot may have been too strong a word. I take it back. I mean it only to say that you think homosexuality is a sin. It isn't. There are no sins. There is no god. Just let people be as they are, and no that doesn't mean crapping your pants wherever you are or killing someone when you are mad at them, or anything like that. Obviously I do not advocate following every whim. Homosexuality is not a whim.

I did understand what I read. If I reword it "Why would a God create man with desires just to call them sinners for ACTING on those desires", it doesn't change my meaning at all. If you don't think desires come from God then fine, neither do I. I don't believe in God.

What did you read in what I wrote that would lead you to even suggest the possibility that I am not compassionate for those who suffer? Right now I am sticking up for gays even though I'm not gay. I'm trying to point out to you that you thinking gayness is a sin is actually an insult to gays. You tell me why god cares what people do with their genitals? Give me one good reason an all-poweful being would care about that at all. Could the negativity associated with homosexuality be all just BS made up by people? That's exactly what it is.

"... that people die by the thousands and millions of natural disasters, diseases, famine, etc. Innocent children die of cancer." Yes it is natural (and a good argument against the existence of a benevolent, omnipotent god I might add). Do you think it is supernatural? I assume you don't think it comes from god. Why would you suggest that I don't have compassion for people who suffer these things? I care very deeply for my fellow human beings. This is why I even bother to try to open peoples' minds at all.

You are already half-way there. You think that god loves homosexuals just as much as everyone else, so that's good. But if I am reading your original post, you don't fully accept homosexual relationships as equal to heterosexual relationships. That, even if you lighten it up by saying god loves them anyway, is discrimination.

However, I obviously don't know you, but you don't seem to be nearly as bad as some of the religious fundamentalists, so that's good. I just think it is wrong to use religion to discriminate, even just a little. I do not think you are a bad person based on what you said, and I take 'bigot' back, for that is too strong a word. Peace.

Actually I do think bigotry is natural - group mentality. I mean the religious argument against homosexuality was made up by humans. I would like an example of a species other than humans who discriminate against homosexuals though because I don't believe that happens outside of the human species. I know homosexuality is found in other animals besides humans too.

Why do you wonder what I think humans are? Of course we are the products of nature just like everything else.

I am a heterosexual male. I am married and a father of 3. Please forgive me for being blunt, but I love me some p*ssy. It is an instict and I'm very happy to be in a loving relationship with my wife. Homosexuals have the same feelings but for their own gender.

I hope you can follow this analogy. Telling gays that they have to choose someone from the opposite sex is like telling me to be gay. I like what I like. Gays like what they like. If they are expected to go against their nature, or to feel guilty for not doing so, it really isn't fair to them. What is a gay person to do if their nature is to love someone from their own gender. Perhaps they are just as turned off by the opposite sex as I am to members of my own gender? It isn't right to say that homosexuality is a sin. It isn't fair to expect gay people to not persue their own happiness in the one life they have to live.

I don't know about you, but I don't have sex just to have babies. It is an expression of love. The same is true for homosexuals. Love is a survival instinct. Being connected that deeply with other human beings is beneficial.

I do believe that nature is all there is. I do believe in right and wrong. Human emotions exist. They are natural. That is where our idea of right and wrong come from. There is no eternal source for it.

I'll turn this question back on you: How can you see a child dying of cancer and still believe in God? We know the cause of cancer and it is natural. I'm not quite sure what you mean about something wrong with the world? But I do not think that cancer is caused by some evil force if that's what you mean.

I agree that not everything natural is good. That does not logically lead to the conclusion that homosexuality is bad.

WHAT IS GOOD: understanding that in human nature, there is homosexuality and that the simple trait of being a homosexual harms nobody. Understanding that humans need love. Understanding that there is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexual love.

WHAT IS BAD: needlessly causing other people distress by telling them that they can't have the love they desire even though it doesn't cause any other human being any harm.

I was once Christian, and I never had a problem with gay people. Fact is, there are many different sects of Christianity, and every individual person has their own unique take on their beliefs. There are absolutely gay Christians, and they believe they have the right to be both. I agree with them.

I do not think any gay people are gay because they are self-absorbed.

I am complaining because I already stated that not everything that is natural is good. In general causing happiness is good, and causing harm is bad. Gay people are causing you no harm, yet you do cause them harm by implying their way is wrong, which are doing no matter how you dance around it. You may not be as bad as others, but you are still on the wrong side in my opinion.

The desire to be religious may be a natural phenomenon but that doesn't mean that religion is true. Religions cause irrational hatred.

You are drawing the wrong conclusions from what I am saying. Not everything is BS. (every religion is though). We are human beings and we desire a good happy life. That is enough for me, even though there is no god to back it up, to want a good life for myself and for others. It is a good enough reason for me that people have feelings, to try to dispel ignorant thinking that leads to irrational judements on groups of people.

I have read the bible, and I reject it utterly as nonsensical babbling of an ancient culture, full of the worst definition of morality you could ever imagine. Reading the bible is precisely what started my journey to atheism. Even as a child, that book was well below my intelligence.

It was fun for a while arguing with you, but I must stop now because I have to leave, and I am getting frustrated by your non-sequiturs and misunderstanding where I'm coming from and what I'm saying.

For example: I already said that not everything is good, so for the second or third time I am not arguing from the perspective that all things natural are good.

I wish you peace and happiness even though we disagree. Have a good day.

And how does that say God doesn't make certain people gay? Of course, IF IF IF God exists. Some animals engage in homosexual acts - bonobos, for example.

Here again, you change subject. The point of my comment is that, Rev Bacon just selects what he wants form the bible.

I hope you do not consider yourself at the same level as animals.
They do many things that you would not want to do.

Humans are animals, just sentient ones.

Technically speaking you actually have that backwards.

He actually is being a hypocrite according to his scripture.

Doesn't make him not badass, but logically speaking he is a hypocrite.

the natural world has not fallen - the natural world is a beautiful place. Morality is not about denial of the body. Date rape is not a natural urge. Man that is all just twisted.

Rape is not sex. Sex is not sin. Repression is the religious dis-ease. I wish you health.

It's society that makes it hard for people. According to the New Testament, Jesus was crucified by humans. If God exists he/she/it doesn't have control over social structures.

And, what the pastor is saying is that all lives are a "gift from God," and that being gay is a gift from God simply because God supposedly makes someone that way.

supposedly, that the point . He did not create homosexual behavior. We did it through our free will.

Rev Bacon makes 3 arguments

1)In Genesis,God said that his creation was good

2)God told us to love Him and our fellow man

3)When Jesus was baptized God said to him that he was beloved. We are all beloved

Let me answers these 3 points

1)In Genesis 6:6 it also says after man fell 'Yahweh regretted having made man on earth'

2)Loving your fellow men does not mean lying to them
for the sake of false peace. It would be false love.

3)When Jesus was Bapized, he was not a fallen man.
He came to save us and even told us, we were doing the work of our Father (Satan).

That did not seem so loving but here again, truth is part of setting us free

Rev Bacon is cheery picking what is convenient and makes him popular. That is not True Love

The first thing he said to Oprah is that his church was full on the Sunday after the show.

Many fundamentalists pick and choose too. Watch "Jesus Camp."

Here again, why do you protect somebody 's actions by blaming someone else of doing something wrong.too.

That what small children do when they argue

A gay newspaper in Portland had demanded the mayor to resign. I give them credit for doing it.

what lunatics! People like them contributed a lot to the election of Obama. Once most Americans finally saw the republican base's true colors, they knew what they had to do in the voting booth.

and for the bigots, i'm sure it socks their rocks.

Thank you. Someone needed to say this.

your bigotry is a gift. don' t let anyone tell you different.

mkay. *rolls eyes*

It is unhealthy for people to believe that they are living in sin just be being their natural selves. Whether you realize it or not, believing that gays are living in sin makes you a bigot regardless if you think that god loves them despite their sins. Gays do not 'convert', and you are quite ignorant to believe so.

BTW why would an all-powerful, benevolent god give a crap at all? Seems pretty lame to create people with desires, just so he can call them sinners for doing what comes natural to them. Anti-gayness of any sort, even your watered down version of it, is born completely of human ignorance.

feels good huh
woo hoo

I don't think most people on this site hate Christians or any other religious group; they just don't particularly enjoy religion in general and its overbearing, tell other people what to doisms. If most religious people were as tolerant as you seem to be then attitudes about religion in general would change in a heartbeat.

oh don't get me wrong- I don't think that most people on current hate christians. I just think that some athiests/agnostics have had some bad experiences with religious people being very forceful with their beliefs, and vice-versa for that matter. My experience with religion related subjects on this site reinforce that... some people are spiritual snobs. That's all I'm saying... Whatever :)

'some people are spiritual snobs'

Agreed

aside from the dick jokes, the wordng of the modern bible was decided at the council of nycea, by a bunch of males. add to that the fact that we've just taken our first baby steps away from chauvanism in the last century, and you have humanity worshiping a male god figure. not to say that the devine is female either though, i dont think an omniscient, omnipotent being would limit itself to one sex or another, including t/g. more than likely the divine has no sex or sexual preference, no matter how much we limited meatbags would like to think of it in human terms. regardless, religion is false in any form, as it is an attempted connection to the divine through a man colored filter. before all the atheists jump on my bandwagon however, ti'm not denying the existence of a God/divine presence/force/spaghetti monster/etc, as it is just as impossible to prove the nonexistence of such a being as it is to prove it's existence.

@aswift1 - As an Atheist, I for one am happy to have you up here. I have begun to learn to be more patient with those of any religious faith even when we have very different views on life as a whole. I am not completely there yet, but I feel I am on my way. It is still tough to hold certain conversations without letting those damn emotions creep in to muck it all up. I do believe the key to success for any person is to get themselves to a place where they can discuss the tough stuff without ruining the opportunity to communicate and learn by letting emotions take over the conversation.

@Nephwrack - "it is just as impossible to prove the nonexistence of such a being as it is to prove it's existence." Incredibly well said my friend! It seems to me that many people are beginning to come to this particular conclusion of which you have explained very well with your whole response. It essentially brings us to a fork in the road. And at this place, you have turned one way while I have turned the other. For me, It just seems too fanciful to believe there is any kind of conscious creator of all things out there at all. But where you are is not so far from where I am, and so I can appreciate your decision while still being satisfied with mine. And that right there is where everyone needs to be able to get to. To accept all others while being satisfied with themselves. Of course, that is not to say we should then stop trying to progress from where we.

Wow, I've never thought of it like that before, but that's a really great way to put it. If you don't mind I think I will use that on Biblical literalists in the future!

yeah, have at 'em.

Bi-curious at least

You are absolutely correct! In theory, that would be true.

also transgendered since god doesn't adhere to either one. i can't imagine god wielding a giant celestial cock.

lol @ celestial cock. thanks for the mental picture... wow!

aside from the dick jokes, the wordng of the modern bible was decided at the council of nycea, by a bunch of males. add to that the fact that we've just taken our first baby steps away from chauvanism in the last century, and you have humanity worshiping a male god figure. not to say that the devine is female either though, i dont think an omniscient, omnipotent being would limit itself to one sex or another, including t/g. more than likely the divine has no sex or sexual preference, no matter how much we limited meatbags would like to think of it in human terms. regardless, religion is false in any form, as it is an attempted connection to the divine through a man colored filter. before all the atheists jump on my bandwagon however, ti'm not denying the existence of a God/divine presence/force/spaghetti monster/etc, as it is just as impossible to prove the nonexistence of such a being as it is to prove it's existence.

That is what I think, If there were "a loving God" he would know damn well that a gay person has no choice in who they are.

I do understand how hard it is to break free from religion. However, the rewards for doing so are very liberating!

Amazing. Makes me feel hope for humanity again.

Man, he hit the nail on the head when he spoke about some Christians interpreting the bible in a condemning way. That's so sad and so true.

Thank you for posting this, Faux!

You're welcome :D There are not enough voices like his out there, I wish I was able to hear one when I was going through some very hard times in my life.