Fatwa issued by Indonesia's Muslim clerics on some yoga

if the shoe fits wear it.

Why do the so called moderate muslims allow their voice and their religion to be hijacked by the lunatic fringe? Is it fear, tacit agreement, or apathy? As it is, it is hard to have much sympathy for the religion.

Well, for your information I practice Yoga and Islam. I do not want your sympathy. Do I have control over what others do? No. They will give acount for themselves.

Its really hard to know what true Islam is when there are nut jobs running around protesting cartoons and yoga.

Islam was not corrupted by nutjobs that want to control their people. First, there was this nutjob named Mohamed who wanted to control his people. He disappeared for a while and came back, sword in hand< with this Islam prison thingy called the Kora

Holyshiite I would suggest you look up Ad Hom arguments before you speak... You prove nothing with your remarks...

Sexirobot- I think you can see it two ways. Either religion is crazy, and lacking any deeper meaning or wisdom, or the massages were right but people messed it up... And considering how much other stuff people have messed up, and how easily our thinking is influenced to believe what is true or not, I am sticking with the "people messed it up" theory.

MoMoney writes,

"..Either religion is crazy, and lacking any deeper meaning or wisdom, or the massages were right but people messed it up... And considering how much other stuff people have messed up, and how easily our thinking is influenced to believe what is true or not, I am sticking with the "people messed it up" theory."

Agreed. A tight coherent argument, dealing with specifics, and which thankfully ignores the usual tirades from oilyshiite..

Let's add one more parameter which we've seen too much of lately.

Background: A Buddhist once reduced all religions to two basic elements -

1/ Do Good. The necessity.

2/ Speculation, Interpretation, and divisive warfare over why the two words - "Do Good" - do not apply to religious leaders, or affect their desire to "Do Bad" to others.

Principle 1 is what holds religions, as self-supporting communities, together.

Princliple 2 is what turns religions against themselves and each other.

Principle 2 has underlying it an entrepreneurial motivation and function.

Let's face it, if the world actually was Religious in the Principle 1 sense - we wouldn't need religion we'd BE Religion.

Principle 2 largely ignores Principle 1 in order to assert complete control.

Principle 2 doesn't merely suggest strict conformity to a Holy Book, but instead demands obedience to an 'interpretation' of what "Do Good" really means to an ambitious leader. Other ethical dimensions can be ignored. Especially when they conflict with the thought control most useful in turning religious alms into mansions, TV networks, company jets, expensive limos, and world tours to drum up more money.

None of this is the fault of religion, per se. But when religion becomes a business venture - that's when "Do Good" turns into - CASH IN.

I think you should stop intellectualizing this debate too much. All of this clever stuff you're saying it just too much for me to take in.

Also, can I book you to come speak at a party I'm having this week?

I love me some mullah cider.

Oh my! And what have YOU done with regard to the hungry and starving in this world? If you are sincere, how come you are wasting your precious time on current instead of feeding the hungry?

jyotti,
I understand where you're coming from, but what does this have to do with the original post?

Oh my! And what have YOU done with regard to the hungry and starving in this world Vierotchka? If you are sincere, how come you are wasting your precious time on current instead of feeding the hungry?

I have done more than my share, and worked in the field in third-world countries. Life does not consist uniquely of feeding the hungry. Throwing my words back at me is quite silly, actually, especially when it is done by people who know absolutely nothing about me or my life.

Throwing your words back at you simply show how full of yourself you are Vierotchka.

jyotti...

It has been my experience with this website that nothing said here accomplishes anything... It's like a bunch of drunks sitting around in a bar arguing religion and politics...

What bullsit. Christian have never wasted a breath on Yoga except while practicing it on Wednesday night. Why do you try to intellectualize(vainly) everything that expose Muslim crap. Some Jew. Ni Klasnaya

* holyshiite - apparently you are not a yoga practitioner yourself then...

Anie, on the contrary. I am a very flexible cleric. Yoga is good for you. Praise Allah

holyshiite, you are totally wrong, as always:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-4857820.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/2005/marapr/14.40.html

http://www.allspiritfitness.com/library/features/aa041301a.shtml

http://www.publiceye.org/ifas/fw/9009/yoga.html

http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/23030/yoga/yoga_and_christianity_a_c...

http://www.macgregorministries.org/cult_groups/yoga.html

http://www.tldm.org/News11/PossessionThroughHoroscopesYogaReiki.htm

Etc., etc.

Oh, and everything I post is otchyn klasnaya.

Poor holyshiite,

Though you may be too busy raving about Muslims to think or see straight today, you may want to expand your view of contemporary history and mosey over to Beijing.

There you can observe what the CCP does to people who exercise under the guidance of the state-demonized Falun Gong. As stern punishment for an exercise routine their living organs are "harvested", then sold to needy westerners for lots of money. It's an amazingly brutal scam, among a miriad of others.

After that, consider the mass liquidation of the Kulaks, the Poles, the Cossaks and the Ukrainians, and God knows how many others under Stalin. Believe it sport, Religion had zip to do with it.

Then turn to Mao and the widespread slaughter and starvation of millions who may have been of doubtful loyalty, or not, but perished nonetheless. Religion never mattered.

Let's not forget Fascist Germany and Imperial Japan. Neither particularly religious, but instead adamantly militaristic and expansionist.

Remember too Europe's many previous wars, some lasting a century or more. Wars to enrich monarchs.

What all of these facts (and more) have in common is that in order to perpetuate a criminal imperial regime - any large minority, for incredibly trivial reasons, may be deemed the enemy, persistently defamed, and then targeted for near or complete extermination.

Once attacked, the targets' land and goods can be confiscated, meaning stolen, as prizes and compensating costs of the attack. The surviving population then can be enslaved. A perfect system.

Unfortunately for your beliefs, this practice did not begin in the Middle East with the Koran. It predates Greece and Rome, and any possible hint of Mohamed.

Closer to home, it once was known as the "White Man's Burden", so the idea that only the other guys ever indulge in stupid acts masquerading as the expansion of virtuous religion is ludicrous.

Were you not so apparently ignorant of history, perpetually one-dimensional, and obsessed with the absurd belief that somehow Muslim influence threatens us all - maybe you'd calm down. Consider a simple fact. There is no Muslim army that could capture and hold any US city. There is no Muslim army that could ever reach our shores. Yet you live in perpetual anxiety and fear that the bad guys are set to take over all of us?

That you dislike complicated 'intellectualizing', meaning elaboration of simple facts, is all too easily understood. Unwittingly, you're another proponent of the system - kill other people for their religious beliefs - that you claim you hate.

Vierotchka - your friendly cleric took some time off. Thanks for the links. What fools. I noticed some were very old stories but you were right in that "some" Christians have been sold a bill of goods on yoga. Look, any partially curious person has learned for himself that yoga is not a religion. Granted, it evolved as a method or means to a religion, a religion completely in tune with Christianity except for the acceptance of Christ as Saviour.

One link you sent was a story about a woman who clearly wanted nothing more than to sell her exercise book. She claims her out-of-body expriences led her to a dangerous place. OMG! It takes years of futile practice to reach that point and become a Buddha. Yoga is a tool to train the mind and body for the incredibly long sessions it takes to reach enlightenment. True Christians have no fear of this.Presumably Enlightenment will allow everyone to see Truth clearly. Faith should leave no room for fear.

Avery Moore, thanks for the post. It proves my point that my often brilliant wit and sense of humor conceals to the less fortunate such as yourself - Islam is more of a political structure for human existence than a religion. As such, it is as dangerous to the American way of life as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Barack Obama and Britney Spears. I fear no army of Muslims. There is something in everyone for me to love. I hate Islam. We all have to choose our battles, this one is mine.