Senate passes $838 billion stimulus bill

Defining inflation is an academic discussion in in's own right. Although popular, there are problems with the definition you've set out.

This is worth a read: http://mises.org/story/908

brother between you and I economics is one of the only sciences that doesn't follow a natural law. Its a science based on the made up factors man created. There is no "science" to it whatsoever

In the end economics is bs...

Likely cost of Iraq war exceeds 3 trillion.

So spending more of taxpayers money but not stimulating anything is the solution? Sounds like your Democratic president is just as bad as the last Republican president. Only difference is that he is going to cost us trillions but do so in the PUBLIC EYE! In front of our faces instead of behind our back, still get screwed either way.

And you need to open your eyes to the obvious difference between REPUBLICAN and CONSERVATIVE. The Conservatives voted down this bill, its doesn't necessarily make them stout Republicans- example : Rep. Ron Paul- very conservative, voted in as Republican but obviously Libertarian.

Its ignorance that Republicans raped the nation, thats gonna leave you screwed just like everybody else. Again open your eyes and realize that its politics- there is no good or bad. Just politicians, and no matter what party they ALL screwed this nation. Get off your liberal horse, and ground your thoughts for a minute.

Raven6:

Although you never come out and say it, you make it sound like the republican party deserves 100% of the blame for the current US economic crisis. If you believe that the democrats and republicans are equal "fuckups", as you say, then you probably already know what I'm going to say. Else, this post is just for you...

1. "Lying us into a war that has cost us over 1 TRILLION Dollars."

I agree with almost nothing cybexg says, but like he said, after considering hidden costs like interest on the borrowed money and health care for veterans, the cost is projected to be more than 3 trillion. That's good enough to come in at the #2 most expensive war for the US. If you're interested, #1 is WWII, led by the great democrat, Franklin D. Roosevelt. This is worth a read as well: http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/chamberl.html (it's a good excerpt on how FDR lied America into WWII).

Now, I agree that most republicans were (wrongfully) supportive of H.J.Res. 114 (authorizing the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq), but the democrat's voting record isn't anything to brag about. Of the house democrats who voted, 39% voted for the resolution (82 Ayes / 126 Nays). In the senate however, 58% of democrats voted for the resolution (29 Ayes / 21 Nays). Neither of those figures show democrats very unsupportive of the war.

2. "Complete failure of energy policy that has our economy tied to oil."

Was our economy not dependent on oil in the pre-Bush years?

Maybe you can point out a president in the 20th century that has shifted our economy from being dependent on oil...

3. "Failure to acknowledge we had an economic crisis until the election."

Austrian economists have warned of this exact crisis for years, and very few republicans, or democrats listened. In fact, both parties laughed at the ideas of the Austrian School of Economics. Peter Schiff was laughed at on an almost a weekly basis.

4. "Increase the size of government by ORDERS of Magnatude!"

If you think Bush increased government, and believe me, he did, then the next four years are going to be shocking to you.

Rich Lowry recently wrote the following:

"Republicans from Ronald Reagan to Newt Gingrich intent on limiting government during the past 25 years have succeeded in a limited way: From 1983 to 2000, the size of the federal government relative to GDP declined from 23.5 percent to 18.4 percent. Federal spending didn’t shrink, but it grew at a slower rate than the economy, providing more breathing room for the private sector.

It had bounced back to 20.9 percent last year, and could conceivably go as high as 28 percent this year. According to Newsweek (latest cover: “We Are All Socialists Now”), in 2010 total U.S. government spending will be 39.9 percent of GDP, only about eight percentage points below the average in the socialistic eurozone countries."

Here's the full article: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDk5NzExYWQxYjZhMjJlMzY0MzlmYWM5NzY3OGJmMGU

FDR did the same thing with the New Deal -- he just waited for for the perfect time to push all these spending programs through that have been lingering in the background for years.

5. "Hired his friends into places of authority (complete morons) that either had no clue what was happening or new it perfectly but fit their actual plan to rob the nation."

Yes, I agree, most people in government (including just about every democrat) are Keynesians who don't have a clue.

keep it up- your right!

Might want to start hoarding gold. The dollar is going to be worthless.

With a Fed rate at 0.25%, it may already be worthless.

bad idea

those who make little should pay no tax - those who make a great deal should pay +50% tax.

No... just no. No one should be exempt and everyone contributes the same amount (percentage) regardless of your income. I pay around 35% of my income in taxes right now and I would welcome the ability to pay a measly 10%... and I'm sure most other people would as well compared to what we pay now...

The fact of the matter is right now the middle class and the poor are paying the majority of our countries taxes while the rich and the corporations have all sorts of workarounds and pay little to no tax each year. I've met people who make millions and pay less in taxes than I do... how does that make sense???

Equalizing the percentages paid and allowing no exceptions would certainly solve our financial crisis due to the fact that our government would suddenly be graced with a huge influx of money they were never getting previously.

unimatrix your last statement was as communist as it comes. I had no idea you were that insane. Everyone should chip in, and no one should have to pay more than whats fair. My father who makes alot of money shouldnt work 60 hours a week so that his check can get split in half so that he can support a bunch of lazy people on welfare.

Dont come back with some weak they cant work bullshit. I work at least 60 hours a week, so can they.

I've always believed a flat tax rate across the board is fair for all cases. If you're poor and you pay 5% you can still survive, if you're rich and you pay 5% you pay a lot more BUT you also get to keep a lot more too.

Flat tax could really really help us all out right now.

The Dow dropped 280 points in just 10 minutes after the Senate passed the "stimulus".

can't we have both?

If a welfare state means that there will be no more homeless people, that everyone will have health care and food to eat and a safe place to sleep than sign me up.

Everything that is not moderated will turn bad. That's the lesson we just need to keep in mind. A little welfare to give folks a hand-up when they need it and a little regulated capitalism to keep people competing internally and externally to the country. I think the Obama administration knows this so I'm hopeful.

To take it one step further, this will actually hurt the poor. Cantillon distribution explains how inflation "hits" different parts of the economy with different force. Those who get the money first, have the advantage. That includes the government, bankers, companies with government contracts, etc... Who gets the money last? It is the poor, working class. Their wages are the last to rise to compensate for the inflated prices. Therefore, they struggle the most.

Your conservative idealology put the nation into the ditch.
Now all you have to say is blame Obama!
Pathetic!

Really Janet Reno was a conservative? She was the one that forced the mortgage industry to accept all of these bad loans. Now Bush and his bunch are also to blame because they did nothing to stop it, but the blame goes all around. This is the problem with America we spend to much time fixing the blame instead of the problem.

Get off your high horse, pal. If you think calling people names and yelling about how much they "fucked up" will change anything, you don't deserve to vote. There were congressmen who stood up and spoke against involvement in hundreds of crises over the years, and by chance some have been dragged through the ringer, and others celebrated for it.

These Republicans represented the voting population who elected them, like their Democrat counter-parts. You speak as if these Liberals are saints who can do no wrong, remember that President who was nearly removed from office for sexual misconduct? I guess he was a screw up, aye? Remember when Congress grossly supported war with Iraq? I guess they were all screw ups too. And, my favorite, that time the current President of these United States voted to perpetuate funding of that war?

To suggest execution of elected officials for carrying out historically largely acceptable political protocol (which was in fact approved by Congress) is treason. I dearly hope that "most of us" only includes the loons that you live with, because we're in pretty poor shape if you represent the mindset of our entire population.

There are so many ignorant statements in your comment it's making my head spin. If you'd care to evaluate any beyond "like, the homeless and welfare, man," be my guest, but you're standing on coward's legs.

LMAO. Raven, you are right on track. Keep the fire burning. The asshats are picking through the smouldering ashes of their failed ideology, and twisting and spining for reconciliation. And yes, you sure as shit deserve to vote.

You people have no clue, as most liberals don't. I'm neither, libertarian if anything, but it's just as much the Dem fault as Republican fault.

What caused this? THE BREAK DOWN OF FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC BY PRES. BILL CLINTON. This was the beginning of people getting loans that they couldn't afford to keep you damn liberals happy.

What continued this? THE LACK OF EFFORT TO STOP THE ACTION UNFOLDING BY PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH. Though in the defense of Rep. THEY DID WARN THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING and GOING TO HAPPEN over 5 years ago- they just did NOTHING about it.

And now the economy is going to collapse worse than ever- thanks to the obviouse idiocy of Pres. Barack Obama and the Legislative Liberal/Dem. We'll see how you feel in a year when the Government has no money to BAIL OUT THE GOVERNMENT.

Do you not realize this is a SPENDING BILL not a STIMULUS BILL? If you want to set the future of the country in motion, do not try to disguise your efforts in tax cuts and spending and call it a stimulus. Propose programs and let the people decide.

So it's all Bill Clinton's fault. Aha.

Yet more dimwit sssppiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

At this point, only a retard would fail to see how badly the Bush Administration screwed us. Oh, right, that's the Republican base.

Raven6:

I agree that most republican are traitors to the very idea of what it means to be republican, but how exactly do you think the Bush administration screwed America? Was it by spending? So my question to you is this: how is the Bush administration responsible for the current economic state? (I agree, the last administration had a major role in what's happening now, but I just want to get your view before I respond to anything you've said so far.)

Sorry, everyone that just endorsed that kind of stupidity can go ahead and put on their dunce hats. That kind of talk is about as constructive as the Republican administration it tries to debase.

I guess if your just ranting and not really concerned with intelligence, then by all means congrats. You can hoot and hollar with the best of 'them good ol' boys' you think you hate. It is hilarious to me how similar the two extremes are to each other and yet can't see past their blind rage to observe it themselves.

raven - Is that what you do? Pick and choose out of a comment what you wish to respond to? Sounds suspiciously like Sarah Palin politicking. Did you just see a reference to Bill Clinton and stop? Are you that stupid?

The Bush administration was, in many aspects, a big disappointment, but don't forget about those other two branches of the federal government, twat.

I guess Raven if you want to be specific it was Janet Reno that started the fall of Fannie and Freddie. She is the one that forced them to accept the bad loans. Of course she did this at the direction of the man you seem to idolize, Bill Clinton. Clinton also made China our favored trading partner which almost tripled our trade deficit, pushed NAFTA through which made it very easy for US companies to relocate to Mexico costing millions of jobs. Now before you think I am just bashing Dems, the GOP is just as guilty because they did nothing to fix the problems. Bush took the crumbling damn handed to him by Clinton and took a huge sledge hammer to it. I really hope Obama can make a difference, but I sincerely doubt it.

Really? really? so it's Clinton's fault? What about Bush senior? Reagan? Nixon? They came before Clinton. I'm not supporting either, but it just seems that now-a-days the dems are the good guys and the reps are the bad guys. it's like what jesse ventura said, "it's like wrestling, they put on a good show but, at the end of the day they're all friends."

In these desparate times, the way that we'll all fail is if we're separated, divided. I don't believe in the 2012 prophecies, what i do believe is that humans will cause they're own distruction, because of the hysteria of 2012. It's the new Y2K, but the problem is everyone's divided. We as Americans, as human beings, need to realize that there are power in numbers. we can get through this. we need to start terrafirming other planets, because with 7 billion on earth, we don't stand a chance.

Maybe, what we're going through is the rich people's way of preserving their future. Because let's face it, if it gets the point where the earth can't handle all these people, who do you think will survive? It's like the titanic, the majority of the rich survived, the majority of the poor died so the rich could survive. What makes them better people? The fact that they don't have a conscience about screwing someone over?

I guess what I'm saying is that, there are rich people republicians and democrats who have too much money while there are people dying because they can't afford bread and water, so let's share the wealth, forcably and peacfully. And stop bickering, it's just makes it worse.

Right on!

So what do you do Snuff when the world will sell your country nothing and your dollar is worth nothing? They would not need to sanction the country - it just would not be able to buy anything as it's money would be worth nothing on the world stage.

I know that we owe China something around $250,000,000,000,000. If they ever call in that debt every American would be on the hook for over $800,000.

Then we'll all be communist. Yea, communism. We'll all be glorified slaves.

And the next...and the next....
Well...you know where this is going.