Obama’s plan sweeps away Reagan ideas

what is a billion .. or a trillion?

let's get our feet on the gound here, people. i had a secret clearance for 30 years .. my yonger brother, is still working within that environment. and we .. were/are the grunts .. so to speak.

the last, of the Nimitz class carriers was lanuched a while back, originally funded at 4.5 billion .. launch cost was about 6.2 billion. last of nine boats. our b-1's cost 2.1 billion. each.
banks .. insurance companies .. hedge funds .. and ad nasuae .. have never "put parts on the floor."

if you over-spend .. 6.2 billion, as oppossed to 4.5, at least you have something to show for it. in seven years, you can't expect, that steel, will go up to 1,100 a ton. but it did.

my brother and I .. are both, vietnam veterans. we have both, worked nuclear "stuff". army and navy. as "boomers", having suffered through our own trials and tribulations in government service, i do hope and pray, that at the very least, the comparission to the cost, of our latest, and last Nimitz carrier, is not lost on the readers here.

a billion dollars, is a sh*tload of money. took 7 years for the "W". where, are the "parts on the floor"?

i hope obama is much smarter than me. all those billions .. going out to entities, that i had never even heard of before. in 62 years .. AIG never showed up on anything .. ever.

perhaps .. transparency .. should be his greatest goal. for an elected oficial in the highest office of all, i pray he is up to it.

Trickle down economic never worked in the first place! Godd riddance to bad policies!

kennymotown, I'm not blaming Obama but there is a nexus. No, it is NOT bigger than my imagination can fathom. However, I believe that neither your imagination nor the imagination to those who blindly signed on to Obamas destructive policies can begin to recognize how bad this country can get under der Fuhrer. Government got us into this mess. The concept that government can get us out by creating debt levels of this magnitude is foolish.

This recession will cure itself within a few years. The market will correct. Japan threw something like 9 stimulus packages at their economy between 1990 and 2000 yet are still in the doldrums (Obama lied about this in his press conference). Hoover created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation during the 30's to stave off the depression. It was done to stimulate the financial sector because it was deemed too important to fail. We see the results.

It's difficult to argue how much worse Japan or the Depression would have been without the injections. It was, and is, bad enough. What we are doing is the same as Japan did and the same as Hoover did.

The problems we have are the result of both parties over the past many years. Profligate spending and government control has been moving out of control for decades. What bothers me are two things. The first is the intellectual dishonesty of the left (Democrat Party) in portraying who is at fault in this. They say it is the Republicans, conservatism and the answer is more government control, more taxes, less individual freedom.

The second is the left itself. We face no greater danger than liberalism which is an acronym for control. Socialism is not the answer yet check to see how many legislators on the Hill are members of the Democratic Socialists of America. This is a social and political system that depends on collectivism, increased government control, loss of individual freedom and is responsible for killing some 100 million people in the last century. This is not the type of government I wish to live under.

We need to term limit each and every one in Congress and the Senate. Repeal the 16th Amendment and the tax code entirely. Pass a balanced budget, pay as you go amendment. Make our legislators adhere to Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.

Make Obama adhere to the Constitution. He is not qualified to hold the office nor is Hillary qualified to be Sec. of State. This administration has subverted the "rule of law" many times in the first month alone. He has made a mockery of the concept of the "rule of law". I would suggest that the assaults on the Constitution so far create impeachable offenses sufficient to remove him from office. However, with his compliant media and non-thinking, fawning millions of supporters this will not happen. Obama is a socialist liberal. As such he gets a pass on any transgressions. THIS is the dishonesty I detest. A Republican cannot tap his feet in the mens room yet liberals and Dems can violate virtually any law with impunity.

Barry is NOT my president. I don't vote for socialists who are unqualified to hold the position or make lying their standard. Now, of course, the latter disqualifies most on the Hill in my eyes regardless of party but Obama is a liar of dimensions exponentially greater than Clinton ever was.

He IS a danger to this country and we ignore this at our peril

A 6% shrinkage of a $13 Trillion economy is only $780 Billion. The Democrats just spent twice that in the past month. How can the the economic downturn be bigger than a liberal can fathom but the multiples of that in spending are written about so eloquently?

Paratus the economic downfall we are experiencing is bigger than your imagination can fathom. And too blame Obama at this point for the markets fall is just plain stupidity.

Two weeks after Reagan won election the Dow went over 1,000 for the first time since 1976 (Gee, wasn't Carter, another economic disaster president during that time). It dropped to about 900 in December 1980 but rallied to something like a 12% gain by April 1981. At Obamas election in November 2008 the Dow gained 305 to close at 9625. Since the election it has lost almost 2600. Every time this president has made a new economic pronouncement the Dow has dropped.
Say what you want about Reagan but the years since his presidency has seen huge economic growth. To minimize or dismiss this by saying that only a small percentage gained tells me that some are looking for excuses for their failure.
We have a president who has put this country in hock for years at a level that most still cannot fathom. When Bush was there the left called for his hide for the deficits he was running, the war, unconstitutional acts, truthfulness and the "criminal administration and criminal republicans".
Now we have Obama who has run the deficit higher at a faster rate, increased troop levels in Afghanistan, is himself not able, Constitutionally to be president not to mention have a Secretary of State who also cannot occupy the position, has broken virtually every promise made during the campaign and many post election, presides as the titular head of a party populated by tax evaders, principals to criminal cases and outright felons.
Even if we ignore the fact that Obama is an outright socialist who uses the "politics of fear" (remember that one leftists?), it is clear that we have a bigger problem with the current administration than we ever did with any other in recent history.
Those of you who would throw out Reagan with one hand while applauding Obama have your heads up your butts. Obama is a liar, a socialist and the biggest danger we face in this country today. Socialism does not work. The USSR is defunct and even when it was in action, people gave their lives to leave these countries to come to this evil capitalist country. Must be something. Don't blame Reagan for failure of the individual. Blame the individual. I would rather have my freedom than to live under socialism, a system that killed some 100 million during the last century.

And soon the clownpuncher will fall what a ditts.

Those bastards!!!

The recession is deeper than thought. Today the annualized reduction in GDP was increased to 6.2%. The revision to a worse number was almost entirely due to a reassesment of business inventories. Business inventories shrank BIG TIME! Guess what? The supply side isn't playing the Obama game and he didn't see it coming.

Good let's dig up Reagan's body and punch him in the nuts too. He won't feel it, but it'll make us feel better.

Obviously joking. But I strongly disagree with with Reagonomics.

I just hope everyone realizes the only thing that will keep a good balance of socialism and capitalism in check is political participation. One of the best things that came out of this election cycle was technology breeding with politics, giving more voices the opportunity and the creedence to express their opinions and be heard. The left will keep pushing us left and the right pulling us right unless we speak up and tell them we want to be in the middle, which i think all pragmatists can agree on. Presidential approval numbers are the grounds for doing much more than the american public realizes... so people of the US express your feelings loud and often, take back your government and everything will turn out fine

Haha, change is coming. Welcome to socialism. It isn't communism, I'll give them credit for that. This will be a grand experiment into socialism using capitalistic constructs to dictate the flow of goods and services rather than beaurcratic institutions like those found in traditional communism. But it is still socialism. Being a good empiricist, I'm not going to say whether it is a good or bad thing based on my own bias. I'll suspend judgment and simply say, 'We shall see."

Socialism isn't as black and white as many people think it is. We already have many shades of socialism that are totally accepted by our country. Things like medicaid, medicare, federal financial aid for students, social security, public schools... the list goes on and on!

What I think is important is that people realize that some aspects of socialism do have their place, even within a Capitalistic Republic like the US. The biggest issue is how those social systems work to balance the role of the upper, middle and lower classes.

Capitalism and Socialism can coexist within the same government and they already do in America, so you can stop pretending that socialistic ideals are so foreign and contrary to what we stand for.

What we need is responsible and ethical policy to regulate the overall system... even if that means accepting some more socialistic ideologies to help protect the general public. The system has been corrupted by the top ranks for too long now and the general public are the ones who are footing the bill and really need the help!

Free markets and deregulation is a pipe dream (this is my main disagreement with Ron Paul), they are idealistic notions that ignore the corrupt nature of men, especially men who have tasted the power that money can bring. A truly free market with no regulation would be a breeding ground for the unethical practices of greedy men... this is partly what we're seeing right now, while the neo-cons are trying to convince everyone that we need LESS regulation to fix the problem.

Really? Less regulation on a system that is so plagued with ethics violations and outright dishonest practices, and the Republican's think the answer is to just hand them our money and trust that they will do the right thing with LESS oversight than they had before?? I suppose that's what they tried to demonstrate with Bush's Bailout, someone remind me of how that went.... OH YA, the greedy bastards in the financial institutions basically STOLE IT! They had the audacity to steal the public's rescue package even when they knew that the public eye was on them. This is exactly why deregulation cannot work! Unregulated greed can most certainly destroy a nation, don't you agree?

Ethical, efficient, and effective regulation is what we need now. No more catering to the rich and powerful, that's exactly what Regan started and we've been going deeper and deeper into the hole ever since! It's just too bad we had to hit bottom to see the error in our ways.

#
BTW... I think that, just like our two party system, it is actually counter productive to get stuck on labels like "socialism" and "capitalism" because it prevents the true understanding by covering it with an all-inclusive label while the reality of our situation clearly doesn't fit the classical definition of any label.... it's already a mix if ideologies, don't reduce it to stereotypical labels.

Perhaps we can think of a new "label" for this mix of socialism and capitalism that we're talking about since it's really neither... or more like a hybrid of the two.

Capi-social-mocracy? =P LOL!!

"obama plan sweeps away reagan ideas."

bless his heart. that is the most beautiful headline sentence ever written.

I agree, depending on where you live, 250k is nothing, that's why every american should have their living expenses stipend based on zip code, if you live in NYC, DC, Chicago or other major cities, living expenses are so much higher and therefore you need that money to pay bills and rent

During the Clinton era 250K for a 2 person family may have been upper middle class or even on the upperclass status range. Now because of inflation 250k/2 income family is nothing. What they should really be taxing are people who make 300+k/yr. That is 50k more than those other families, who may need every penny of that 250k.

Granted that there are MANY under this level of income, and I'm not saying that they don't work hard, but simply, many just don't work. I agree that we need nationalized health care and better schools and lower tuition. But telling people that they not only have to pay for their kids' college AND now someone else's kids' college, is a hard thing to swallow.

If people who are toting race around like the Senator who criticized southern GOP govs. for not spending Obama money, they don't realize that not ALL "minorities" are at the bottom. There are SO many socialized reforms around to help these people it's unbelievable. Just by putting "other" under race on a college application can get you federal grants when you wouldn't if you identified as "white". While some of these reforms themselves need reformed again, lets not continue the cycle of racism by saying that "the white man is keeping me down", when your brothers and white people alike are paying for your welfare and food stamps.

Socialism is not a good idea, I agree that capitalists have taken it too far, and that the proper balance must be restored, but socialism when run by the government is never a good idea. Name me one area of government that is run efficiently? The problem with big government is not what it is trying to accomplish but how it does. Healthcare, good god, can you imagine taking a number and waiting like at the DMV? The more control the gov't has the more things it will screw up. Capitalism does one thing very well when regulated correctly, creating competition, and this is what needs to change. The US must become competitive again, in attitude first, we need to get off our high horse and get things done again.

and again the dow falls...what a twit.

What irks me is all the rich elite of America trying to act like the general public are in the same financial bracket, when reality is that there is MUCH that separates the top 10% from the other 90%.

Socialism is bad for corrupt capitalists because it threatens their domination and manipulation of the lower classes. In reality, there are many fundamentals of socialism that are extremely beneficial for the general public. The rich will still be rich, but perhaps not quite as rich. The benefit is that the poor and middle class don't have to struggle as much in this big wide world of corruption at the top.

Lets go back to the 70's Savings and Loan crises. The feds stepped in and guaranteed savings. Shortly thereafter, every American was able to borrow money to buy a house. Then the pricks of the banking world, package these sub prime loans and sell them to an unsuspecting world of small investors. And now we reap the consequences of the sowing of these idiotic decisions.
Both Dems and Reps were deeply involved in approving laws supporting actions that have now led to our current problems. They are pigs at the trough, one and all!

All I see is GREED on their faces. Greed for power. Greed for money. The current problems, caused by a democrat plan to make housing "fair", by requiring banks to loan to people that could not afford it is the cause of the current problem. The people who believe otherwise are being mis-lead. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank are more responsible than the policies of Ronald Regan, but no one who believes in the propaganda of the Democrat party will want to take the time to check the facts.

Thank you, Obama.

And how does taxing the rich destroy the 'American Dream' of becoming rich? It's not like they won't be rich anymore. It's not like they won't be able to afford a lavish lifestyle. He's not taxing them to the poorhouse, most of those with much higher taxes won't even have to make any significant financial adjustments. Since when did the American Dream become having enough money to buy several homes, a yacht, $30,000 birthday parties, and 6 cars? I was under the impression that the American Dream was a owning a house, having a family, and the ability to support them. Nobody making over $250,000 is going to lose that ability with increased taxes, despite what Hannity tells you.

And not to mention that the rich are supported by the poor, not the other way around. It's their employees, the consumers of their products, and the borrowers of their money that they rely on to live as they do. Bill Gates is rich because millions of 'poor' people bought his computers, and the economy is stimulated by that consumer demand.

Hell, we're in this crisis because the credit industry began to collapse. Prior to this (and even still after the credit problems) pretty much our entire economy was based off of credit. You know those 'rich' people? Most of them are in the banking and credit industry. Working and Middle class families are what make a capitalist economy work. It's called consumerism.

well .. is this true ... really .. talaga!

I, for one, absolutely know, that while i was in the US Army for a few years .. i was employed.

One of the things, that Reagan did, to skew the un-employment percentage, was to include, the people who were serving in the US Military on active duty.

I came back from nam .. worked in Permanent Party Records .. and every swinging d*ck .. was employed, trust me. All 6,000+ of them at Fort Ord.

afaik .. that skew is still in place. while not as profound as in the viet nam era .. still .. it is dishonest.

everyone in active military, is employed. duhhhh

well .. a true reagan sweep, would reinstate all revolving credit interest payments, as deductions. some of you may remember, getting a statement from sears or other revolving credit providers, in january or february, listing all interest charges for the previous year.

this does indeed speak to the current "crissis", in sofaras many people have opted to take out seconds, for example to buy a car, so that they could deduct the interest on their installment payments.

as i recall .. it was also during his watch, that the undoing of the usury law in california, was undone. it was 18% maximum per anum, simple interest.

currently .. this has spurned a new business industry in the last few years, for advancing payment for wages, and is equivalent to up to 360% per anum.

when i bought my first house, in 1973, i was held to meet some well defined criteria. basically .. your mortgage should be no greater, than 250% of your annual gross earnings.

if you think that is rediculous .. just look around you. trickle-down reaganomics never worked. we, as a nation, and as an inhabitant of this earth, have some serious issues to deal with.

i appreciate this forum, and the opportunnity to share my thoughts.

take care all

I'm actually going to have to admit that I support this. Obama, you have surprised me. Don't worry though, my hopes still aren't going up one bit. This nation will still crumble under you.

"there goes the American dream also..."

The American dream has been gone for a long time. We are no longer the 'new world', we are no longer a newly birthed nation desperately in need of workers and man-power, in fact we've got too many people in some respects.

There is no American dream anymore, and never will be again, it's a part of history. Those people who think there still is are just romanticizing.

there goes the American dream also...if we keep taxing the rich more and more..then we can only expect worse economic report cards in the future...its the people who have money that stimulate the economy..not the people who don't have money and just rack up credit

Swept away is where they belong. Under the rug, or out the door.

The result of Reagan's America is that at the moment, 1% of America controls 90% of the wealth. And oh those 1% are so good at creating jobs we are in a recession heading for depression the like of which have been unseen for decades. We have managed to create vis a vis supply side 'economics' conditions uncannily similar to those preceding the Great Depression.

And still, the foolish will fight for the right of the rich to piss on America.