Actually, as a non practicing "Catholic", not only are you clueless, you by virtue of the fact that you do not go to Mass, lose all right to comment. (That is like someone who says "I can't stand that president! Look at all the taxpayer money he is spending! " When asked "Who did you vote for?" Invariably, the answer is "I didn't vote! I don't believe in it! They're all crooks anyhow!") But the truth hurts sometimes, doesn't it?

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Any of it.

"A mean spirited closeted gay." You, obviously, can't stand this Pope, and I assume you liked JPII even less. That being said, I would also assume your relationship with Christ is almost non-existent. St. Paul tells us, if we "forsake the assembly" of the faithful, we become lukewarm, often cold in our faith. Most gay priests are pedophiles- at least, the ones who get found out and arrested. The ones that aren't pedophiles you'll find cruising the gay bars. Every pervert priest is a homosexual- they have caused intolerable pain for their victims, and must be weeded out and dismissed from the clerical state. It is painful for all involved, but it is in the best interests of everyone involved that they be laicised- victims, priests, parishoners.

As a non practicing Catholic I have to say that I believe this Pope is a mean spirited closeted gay. One of the first things he did after becoming pope is start beating the bushes looking for gay priests. There are many gay priests in the church, few are pedophiles. Leave them alone.

Roman Catholic's beware!!!! Church is only a building and a Priest is just a man! God is everywhere! And Priest's are part of the political corruption of the Vatican!

who is not gay that's a priest - that's my question :) who cares...so did they find all those "homo's" they were looking for. i thought that god loved all his children.

Yeah, Jedi. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here. I'm not just an atheist, but also a never-been-Catholic atheist. Any observations I might make necessarily come from the outside.

Of course I do have Catholic friends, colleagues, and acquaintances. Priestly and non-priestly. Both cloistered and "secular." (Non-Catholics, this "secular" thing might not mean what you think it does.)

Some of my RC friends or acquaintances, lay or priest, are gay; but none is sexually abusive. All are intelligent and very well educated.

But none of my gay friends or acquaintances would be admitted to a Red-Shoes Ratzo seminary. Faith? Love? Honor? Integrity? Compassion? Intelligence? Talent? Education? Training? LOVE? Fogettaboutit!

If God gave you the "gay" gene, then God destined you to be evil. God predetermined that you would be scorned, rejected, villified, and absolutely denied the opportunity to help others. Makes no sense to me that God would be so cruel, but then I'm an atheist.

I think gods, if such … things? … existed, would certainly want their creations to be loved rather than hated, respected rather than treated with contempt, helped rather than hurt, etc. Granted, I could be wrong. "God" might actually be cruel, hateful, intolerant, hard-hearted, and eager to hurt rather than help.

OK. Forget the teasing and chain-yanking. Quite practically, the Church loses here. The people do not. Not directly, anyhow. My RC friends and acquaintances are most definitely not the kinds of persons who are just trying to advance through a bureaucracy. They are persons whose lives are based on love and compassion. They're not about getting rich, famous, or powerful. They're about making people's lives better.

Piddle on such persons? Then you piddle on what's right.

very tough subject. the church has such a bad record on this in the past that almost any change would be seen as an improvement.

I don't understand the issue. The first pope was a Peter and Jesus said that he was like a rock. So it was from the beginning!

How to test for a gay priest? I guess one could place a penis under the applicants tongue, if the swelling goes down then he is not gay. If, on the other hand, the swelling does NOT go down, then he qualifies for the priesthood!

More bullshit from the richest liars in the world.

This will drive people away from the church and make them question it , I hope . If they keep this up , in 50 years , they won't matter . I say cheer 'em on !

I hate the intolerance of the Vatican and a lot of the catholic church.

This is so fucking stupid! (Yeah. I just realized the unintended irony of the participial modifier "fucking," but I'll leave it.) Gay men are no more likely to be pedophiles than are straight men. The only difference between them is the object of perversion.

Likewise, non-pedophile straight priests can slip the collar (sic -- couldn't resist the metaphor) just as easily as gay priests. I can't help thinking of Peter Abelard and Heloise.

As a scholar and debater, Peter Abelard was the champion of at least the Western world. But he fell in love with a student named Heloise. They were punished and spent the remainder of their lives under, effectively, house arrest. (BTW, the love letters they purportedly wrote to each other are truly wonderful, authentic or not.)

The Church denied itself the services of perhaps its best teacher and most successful intellectual champion.

Gay priests and lesbian nuns can be just as spiritual, just as committed to faith, just as devoted to service as straight priests or straight nuns. And susceptibility to temptation is there for everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, forced to try to sublimate the frustration of denying a fundamental human drive.

What matters is *doing* what's right and *not doing* what's wrong. Instead of trying to develop tests to identify genetic programming, the Church surely should be focusing on helping priests/nuns do what's right, regardless of sexual orientation.

If either straight or gay priests/nuns mess up, then the problem should be recognized, acknowledged, and dealt with honestly. You want to talk morality? Lying is wrong, even lying by omission, let alone deliberate cover-up. Giving offenders an opportunity to hurt still more children, male or female, is beyond wrong. What kind of person, let alone what kind of God, would countenance that?

*****

Celibacy was not always demanded of Roman Catholic priests. Why did that change? (Rhetorical question. Historians know the answer.)

Why is celibacy demanded now? After all, conditions have changed significantly. The more the Church insists on celibacy, the more it discourages straight men from becoming priests. Leaving ...?

What's most amusing for a non-believer like me is that the Church now is simultaneously insisting on policies which discourage straight men and encourage gay men of similarly genuine faith to aspire to the priesthood) ... but which seek simultaneously to deny those faith-inspired gay men the opportunity to serve.

Can be no question that a whole lot of intelligent and aware Church leaders recognize this and are regretting more and more that they've been saddled with combination CEO and Chairman of the Board "Foot in Mouth," "Red Shoes" Ratzy, who enjoys lifetime tenure.

*****

BTW, does anyone know what sort of test or checklist the Church is using to decide who's gay, who's bi-, and who's straight? Or who's a potential pedophile? Oh, wait. They're not screening for the latter. Sorry.

Seriously, though. I bet it's secret, because if it were known deeply religious and committed gay men might be tempted by the devil to tailor behavior and speech to game the test.

*****

Need I add the disclaimer that I'm not a Roman Catholic and really don't care what anyone believes, as long as that belief provides comfort to the believer, encourages helping others, and discourages hurting others – regardless of whether they share the same faith.

It makes about as much sense as "Don't ask, don't tell". Seriously though, why would anyone want to belong to an organization that discriminates against them or anyone else? It's always flabbergasted me how christian organizations are judgemental about everyone except themselves.

Man I would really like to know what 'test' they are using.

Question 8.
Complete this sentence to the best of your ability.
I am...
a) gay
b) not gay
c) lying about not being gay

Choose carefully.

They're all clowns. You can't look at religion in a serious matter anymore. They keep flip flopping on things and then they "come up" with all these new procedures. It's ridiculous.

The Catholic Church: bringing you discriminatory polices and stupid statements since 40 C.E.

I agree. I remember the Popes visit in NY. He was in Saint Patrick Cathedral giving a mass. He apologized to all the victims and prayed for healing. Marriage for Catholic priests? Interesting, should but not sure that will fly anytime soon. They are still working on the Condom issue.

It's called damage control. The Pope himself made it an issue and publicly appologized to all the victims of sexual abuse by a priest. I said this before, let the Catholic priests have a relationship with somebody other then God and they may stop abusing juveniles. Many religions allow marriage and you don't hear the same stories of sexual abuse coming from them.

The ONLY reason that priests are being tested for being GAY is because of the attacks on Catholic Priests for molesting alter boys.

So if you want to say they are not tolerant. Whateva.
It's the public that drove the church to this extreme.

BTW less than 1% of all the Catholic Priests in all the world ever molested any alterboys.

If you think about it...
1. Catholic church doesn't allow birth control.
2. Catholic church doesn't want the wealth of the church to be passed down to sons and daughters of priests, bishops, etc. This is the reasoning for the celibacy

It comes down to property rights. This is also why they are not aloud to marry..

But, with all a priest has to do, they really don't have time to take care of a family of their own. The church is very demanding of their time and work.

BullPapa. Yes, I just invented a new word for the 'stuff' that seems to come from the Vatican.

But on the more basic level, since none of the basic criterion of the Catholic church (Belief in bible as 'word' of God, belief in 'Jesus' as God, etc, etc) resonates with me, what difference does it make if the Catholics have ANY internal criterion for the things they do?

As far as I'm concerned it's just bullpapa. I respect it as their problem, and as long as we have separation of church and state, I'm glad to keep it that way.

This just shows the continued intolerance of the church. Why they think celibacy is the path to cleanliness and holiness is beyond me. After all it was the words "Upon this rock I will build my church" spoken to the "married" St. Peter.