TALKING DIRECT WITH JERUSALEM ON CURRENT.Com

MoonLoon, this Irish woman was exposed, she ran away from this discussion since she can't deal with any of our arguments, let alone facts,
so even if she miraculously replies again to one of our posts, it would be a cluster of excuses why she can't answer us or a copy-paste youtube propaganda clip.

This articulate supposedly educated pacifist from Ireland is one of many Jew haters who hide under an umbrella of Human-rights campaign so their anti-semite origins would be blurred,
i encountered many of those "Palestine" fans across the web so i know how to deal with them and expose them for who they really are, ugly anti-semite hate spreaders.

And one advice for Anna, your religious dogma about the peace loving palestinians has blown in your face, so in sake of your honor, stop your ridiculous hate campaign against Israelis and Jews just like the fanatic late ex-pro-palestinian writer Oriana Fallaci did.

They were told to stay out of the area. Are they this ignorant? Or looking for headlines in the Sun, approving their bravery? Give me a break, we know their agenda. Why not donate the yacht and all of the supplies to a reputable charity organization that is approved to deliver to Gaza. A bunch of showboating hot dogs looking for publicity!

Why can't you reply to the solid argument i brought?
Is it the same reason why you haven't reply to my question whether you have a proof to "Palestine" existence as an independent and separate Arab nation/people/entity prior to the establishment of Zionism and the same reason why you haven't replied to me from what the name "Palestine" derives from?
If you are incapable of answering my hard question and arguments, why people should take your words seriously?
why do you call yourself a middle-east expert?
It seems to me that the only thing you are capable of doing is just recycling slogans and old messages by copy-paste and not conduct any sort of real conversation which any question and argument, no matters how hard it is, is being answered and not ignored.

@Highr0ller said:
"They rammed the ship DIGNITY and tried to sink it during their effort to take medicine and a little food to the Palestinian people"

This ship "DIGNITY" was solely meant to cause a provocation, if those so called "peace activists" would have really wanted to donate aid to the Palestinians in Gaza, they could have done it via Egypt or UN/Humanitarian organization based in Jerusalem.
Everything the members of Dignity said is biased, they are convinced that Israel is a criminal country and the Gazans are pure angels so why should anyone, let alone me, take their words seriously?
Some people define their opinions upon facts, and others, like the member of "Dignity" and you define facts on the basis of their opinions.
The facts are that almost any incident in the world has two versions, and you are in no position to judge any of those sides as wrong or right.

@Highr0ller posted a photo of Israeli soldier supposedly aiming his M16 toward a Palestinian infant.

Anna, this is one of propaganda items that used by the Palestinian spokesmen and partners all over the world to bash Israel, but didn't you stop for a minute to think about this photo? do you know under which circumstances this photo was taken? do you know if the soldier really aims his weapon at this little kid? have you been in the same spot at same time that the photo was taken?
It's very easy to take photos without their context and post them under a certain title, it doesn't mean that your interpretation of this image is the right one.

@Highr0ller wrote:
"Why would they be interested in Palestinians?" regarding the Iranian exporting of weapons to the Gaza strip.

The Iranian public,in general, doesn't care at all about the Palestinians, and i know it since i've been talking to some Iranians during my visit to Armenia and Azerbaijan.
The Iranian regime however does help the Palestinians, not by economically developing the West-Bank and Gaza but by smuggling huge amount of weapons and fueling the Palestinian military organizations, since a big portion of the Iranian oil revenues are being allocated to fuel terror outside Iran, the Iranian public who suffers from poverty as a result of its government's behavior doesn't like the Palestinians and the Palestinian cause.

If I grasp the intent of all posters; we cannot trust anyone from the "Middle East". However, all the dialogue, smoke and mirrors, has failed to answer one question. Why have Muslim extremists conducted terrorist attacks against innocent men, women, and children all over the world? When has Israel last hijacked a plane or ship, or sent suicide bombers in to murder, yes murder, innocent people. When the Muslim apologists can answer this question I will respect their point of view. And do not bring up Gaza to support the weak position held by Muslim criminals intent on murder. The Muslim agenda was in motion long before Gaza was a problem. Tom Jones once sang a song about picking up a frozen snake and then being bitten by the same thawed out snake, because after all that is what snakes do. Muslims are the snake in our pocket! All of the propaganda generated by their Western mouthpieces will not change the fact that they are devoid of honor, except toward the Muslim brethern!

The Saudis are very wealthy and PAY for their weapons. America gives no donations to Saudi.

Egypt, a poor country, is a beneficiary of American largess on condition they do not attack Israel. This is so ever since the Peace Accord and the Peace Treaty that President Anwar Sadat signed in 1979.

You say:
" Furthermore, Iran funds the Palestinian terrorist organizations by exporting a huge amount of weapons and ammunition, why don't you criticize it? ''

That is a load of XXX because nothing has been getting in to Palestine for some years now....the borders have been tightly sealed by Israel and even there are problems with foreign aid getting through.

I lived in Iran in the reign of the Shah and I know that Iranians are not Arabs and have poor relationships with the Arab countries. Iranians are a different race of people to Arabs and when their country was occupied by Muslims they changed to Muslim religion....but they adapted it and hence Iranian Shia religion is different to other Muslim religions.
Why would they be interested in Palestinians? They are not, but like the rest of us they can see what Israel is doing in the region. In fact the whole world sees, and has seen. Israel will not allow cement into Gaza to reconstruct their country as Israel wants to push the Palestinainas off that land and settle there.

Now don't waste any more of my time trying to call me a liar. Read the book I have put up on the next link and stop trying to sell your propaganda.
Adieu.

Anna, i don't know why do you ignore my questions, if you call yourself a "middle east expert", why can't you at-least answer the questions i posed you before and stop eluding from it, please answer this question which was asked by me and still waiting to be replied by you:

"Among American taxpayers, there are approximately 6 million Jews and 180 million devoted Christians who strongly support Israel and want their tax to be allocated to this cause,
your argument is even more empty when you look at the fact that American tax payers fund the Egyptian and the Saudi armies which are equipped with best American military weapons, why should the American taxpayers fund them?"

Furthermore, Iran funds the Palestinian terrorist organizations by exporting a huge amount of weapons and ammunition, why don't you criticize it?
Those weapons and guidance are being used by the Palestinian to plot and commit mass murders against Israelis but also against themselves in their own domestic civil war with the gangs of Fatah.

Do i smell double-standards?

US Aid: The Facts

Israel and the US have a long-established special relationship. The US was the first country to recognise the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948.
Israel is considered America's closest non-NATO ally in the Middle East, a region that is geopolitically crucial to the US.
The close relationship between the two states is reflected in the volume of aid Israel receives from the US. Since World War II Israel has been the largest overall recipient of US aid: from 1949-2006 Israel received more than $156 billion of direct US aid.
Until 2003, Israel received approximately one-third of the annual US foreign aid budget. In 2005, the US gave Israel more than $2.6 billion in aid, a budget exceeded only by US aid to Iraq. By comparison, Jordan received $683.6 million, Rwanda received $77 million, and the Occupied Palestinian Territories received $348.2 million.
In the past, a majority of the direct US aid to Israel was via US Economic Support Funds (ESF). The US publicly states that ESF are given in order to support stability in areas strategic to the US. However, the recipient government completely controls how it spends these funds.
The US also lends money to Israel, but these loans are frequently waived before any repayments are made. The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs has estimated that from 1974-2003 Israel benefited from more than $45 billion in waived loans from the US.
Direct US aid to Israel has significantly diminished since 1996 in order to reduce Israeli financial dependence on the US. Speaking to the US Congress in July 1996, Former Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu declared, "We will begin the long-term process of gradually reducing the level of your generous economic assistance to Israel--

quotation by Lawrence Clark Powell - "Write to be understood, speak to be heard, read to grow.".

War sucks!

why do you have to rely on youtube propaganda clips to make your point?
please answer me verbally, and not videoly or linkly!

Anna, i'm sorry to tell you, but you are incapable of convincing unconvinced people like me,
first of all, you selectively answer what you want, and even then, you need high-ranked left wing journalists to provide you with an answer.
Please refer to everything i wrote and not only to what is easy for you to tackle with, and if you can't, you will be exposed as an empty statement Durasel's rabbit that recycle its and other people's propaganda.

This should be a real conversation and not a presentation of propaganda items that you randomly found in some internet landfill.

"Palestinians don't have an army."

Maybe not officially, but Hamas is well-equipped military organization with Iranian long-range missiles that target 1,000,000 Israelis (including 80,000 Bedouin Arabs in the Negev),
explosives, suicide bombers, guns, mortar bombs and etc... actually Hamas is much stronger than the Lebanese army for instance.

"Israel keeping out all journalists from covering the horror"

so you can blame Israel for "murdering" journalist who are caught in the cross-fire?

"Today Israeli army generals can't enter Britain"

So is George Galloway in Canada for inciting hatred and violence!

Palestinians don't have an army.

It was the army of Israel killing civilians. It was Israel keeping out all journalists from covering the horror. It was Israel

Today Israeli army generals can't enter Britain as they will be tried and sentenced for war crimes.

Read the press in Europe.

Those that KILL...yes...it includes ALL murderers......but the innocent women, children and many innocent fathers in Palestine are not included.

94% of the Israeli population is included. All Israelis are in the army.

There is a wonderful movie produced by Juliano. It's called Arna's Children. Watch it.....it will explain why children grow up to be suicide bombers. Juliano is a wonderful man whom I have had the honor of meeting.

"I live in a FREE world and am not obliged to shake hands with murderers.....or those that support murder."

does your statement includes the hands of Hizbollah and Hamas members?

"I NEVER shake hands with Israelis....you have to accept that"

So why did you complain about me stereotyping Arabs and Muslims while you are proudly do the same?
And by the way, what about Israeli-Arabs? Are their hands kosher?

"What a dire pity that such an opportunity is not available to the inhabitants of Palestine /Gaza Strip who have no electricity or any opportunity to go online"

First of all, Israel supplies electricity to Gaza, and what is more ironic about it is that the same power plant in Ashkelon that produce the electricity that goes to Gaza is being bombarded with rockets supplied by Iran,
It's like Britain supplying Nazi-Germany electricity during WW2 from a power plant that constantly bombed by the German air-force.

"Rwanda and Gaza are two Genocides"

Yeh right, 1,000,000 unarmed Tutsis and moderate Hutus who were murdered in systematical mass-genocide is equal to a war between two armed sides, which one of them is a terrorist group that operates from a densely populated urban area.
1,200 Palestinians (among them 800 armed men) =1,000,000 Rwandans=6,000,000 Jews
Do you expect sane people to really buy your propaganda?

"Even now when the Israeli Air Force is practicing murder in broad daylight of hundreds of civilians"

NOW? can you please stop lying please, you're making a joke of yourself, ceasefire is practically exists since January 17th.

-------
I'm very disappointed of you, i bothered so much to write you an extensive answer and all you are capable of doing is repeating your regular and boring statements of how Israelis are criminals instead of tackle any of the solid points and the hard questions i asked you, are you even capable of answering me seriously?

I live in a FREE world and am not obliged to shake hands with murderers.....or those that support murder.

talk to yourself a lot do you? ;)

From a second reading i found an incredible double standards statement:
@Highr0ller wrote:
"but not all Arabs are criminals, and I do not stereotype people. As 94% of Israelis supported the war in Gaza and some picnicked on the hills overlooking the Gaza Strip to enjoy their suffering during the war"

You are accusing me of stereotyping people while you do the same and even worse, not to mention your remark of not shaking hands with Israelis solely due to the fact that they are Israelis,
And what more surreal about the all thing is that you as a left wing pacifist and a human rights activist who condemn prejudices and oppose racism is the most racist of all since even the Palestinian officials shake hands with Israelis.
You are being more Palestinian than the Palestinians themselves.

P.S:
according to many surveys and polls, over 85% of the Palestinians support suicide bombings,
P.S no.2:
I'm sure that you will find enough excuses for them to justify the brutal massacre of Israeli women and children.

ladies and gentlemen,
your fanatic left-wing anarchist-che-guevara style humanistic views are nothing but a cocktail of fables, anti-semetic tales and cheap arab propaganda under an umbrella of human rights campaign,

@Highr0ller wrote:
"We now end up with a huge Jewish population in Israel whom will have to be relocated again one day if peace is to reign."

Thank you very much for you suggestions, but after my grandfathers and grandmothers who were holocaust survivors and fled Europe after being attacked by an Anti-semtic Romanian mob, have no intention of going anywhere else. And if you have a problem with my presence here so let it be!

@Highr0ller wrote:
"Personally I don't think anyone has a right to take Palestinian land and give it away"

Anna, tell me something, if you consider yourself an expert of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,
can you give me a solid proof to the existence of "Palestine" as an independent Arab state/entity/nation prior to the establishment of the Zionist Movement?
After all, you defined the holy land as a "Palestinian land" and i as a skeptical zionist Jew need to see proof for this.
Another thing, do you even know where the word "Palestine" derives from?

please look at this very interesting reference:http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=1297324
PLO member admits that "Palestine" is a fable that made it possible to bash Israel and try to isolate it.

@Highr0ller wrote:
".they have thrown all the inhabitants out of the area,"

Well, again, this sentence is 100% Arab propaganda, you somehow mysteriously forgot to mention that 5 Arab Armies accompanied by a Palestinian mob waged a war on the pre-independent state of Israel which at that time was barely half a million Jews, Arab forces goal was publicly to throw the Jews into the Mediterranean sea,
So what the Jews were supposed to do?!, to be slaughtered in a holocaust style war?, i know, anna, that you would like it to have happened that way, but unfortunately for you, it didn't...
Furthermore, Arab armies called their fellow Arabs in Israel to move out of the country so it would be easier for them to ethnically cleanse "Palestine" from Jews,
if you don't believe me, you can look for recorded texts by yourself, they are all over the web.

And something else, unlike what you think, i'm in favor of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, not because i like it but because i'm pragmatic unlike you who want to wipe out a country and throw millions of Jews into an exile that would be resulted in a second Auschwitz.

Please, i have only one thing to ask you and your fellow anti-globalization/zionism/America/Whatever smells Jewish persons, and this to take out your mask of left-wing caring to Human-beings, because according to you world peace is wiping out everything the Muslims and Arabs don't like and fueling worldwide anti-semitism under the cover of Anti-zionism.

Wish you a happy passover,

XXXX from Jerusalem, Israel.

I myself have heard Israelis who are opposed to the continuing crimes committed against the Palestinians say that they themselves cannot talk to rabid Zionists who are committed to dehumanizing, removing, and killing any native Palestinian in their way.
Rational dialog is not a two-way avenue of communication with twisted and irrational minds.
Psychosis can feed on itself and infect a family, or a population, as it can an individual. The core Zionist madness is today one the most demonstrably dangerous and destructive forces in the world today.
I pity the children of both sides.

i just think its sadly ironic that israel is committing the same atrocity (genocide) that was committed against the jewish people less than a hundred years ago.

people never learn.

Very touching.

It is very telling that certain people would turn around what is truly a hatred of war and its mechanisms into a hatred for the people. I too have defended the Palestinian people because it is fact that their water is being denied them which has led to a total destruction of their agriculture. How can anyone who is human who does not hold a prejudice not understand that it is a human rights abuse? I would speak up as loudly against that if it were the opposite way. I stand with the same viewpoint of Doctors Without Borders: HELP HUMANS without political, religious, or economic labels, especially in times of tragedy and war. It is the humanity that so many have lost that has led to their own hatred and the villifying of entire groups of people to assuage their own political or religious hatreds. And it is that hate that has poisoned the world, not those who see above it.

Excellent post HighRoller. No matter how much you tell some people you do not hate, it always comes back from them that we do hate, which is a total lie to make it look like what we say is null and void. Our documents and collaborating news stores back us up.

Most people are starting to see thru this Zionist curtain and finally calling a spade a spade. Israel is naked, now, people like us must continue to march her nakedness in front of the world and misguided people buried beneath a propaganda machine spouting lies in order to quench Israels greed and lust for money at any cost. Including babies and innocent people.

Israel would like to continue oppressing and segregating the Arabs, unintentionally creating an apartheid, and more wars.

What's to stop them from killing their way to more TERRITORY? The U.S. or Britain, or someone else MUST sanction them or it will get even uglier, if that's possible.

Remember that the PM Netanyahu (not democratically elected, mind you) JUST MADE threats to Iran...which is utter bullshit...the Iranian govn't is no threat.

I have a real problem with the people who will stop at nothing to whitewash what happened and is still happening in Gaza. Some examples of the excuses I have heard were

-most of the people killed were Hamas militants and not children

-the bombing of the UN building was a fabrication (it might have been so, but that hardly excuses anything)

People of all countries must know there are some of us out here that do not support war . we do not support blood shed and the murders of children . What Israel did in Gaza was nothing but murder Does not mean I hate the people of Israel , I just hate what the military did . As well as the country I am from America. I was davasted when I first found out that America was supplying Israel with weapons . I am against war, We all just want peace in this beautiful world we live in. No land should seperated. God gave this world to all of us to share . and to make peace with out neighbors and not war. Its just sad that so many can not see this.. God Bless all of you this Easter . and remember what he died for ..may Peace, Love & light guide your paths

IF ANYONE WANTS TO CHECK MY POSTS....ALL ARE THERE...........JUST TYPE

Highr0ller

into the search box on the top right hand corner of your screen, and use a zero for the O in my name.

Current.com is wonderful because I have had other private messages.................this from a very very nice man:...and I hope he and I have come to a good understanding. He is brave and openminded.

sent on Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:48:14 +0000
And yet,this has absolutely nothing to do with Zionism.I too hate what blind Zionism has brought on and in my opinion Zionism is jewish fundamentalism and even terrorism and is even fascistic.I know that is a terrible word,especially since the Jews have suffered so terribly by fascism and racism.But the way Israël is (mis)behaving lately leaves me no choice.And since I am a dutch jew myself and the greater part of my family was killed by the Germans in concentration-camps in Poland,Germany and Austria,this is a horrible thing to admit.And still this has nothing to do with the denial of the existance of gas chambers,used for killing people with ZyklonB or the killing of millions of jews in concentration camps.Let's not argue about that,have a nice day.

Do I treat Israelis differently?

Yes I do. I never shake hands with Israelis.

I also made my excuses and left the day I was to meet Saddam in Baghdad when I visited with a government delegation.

I do not shake hands with murderers.

Jews? I count some among my friends, but none among my closest friends, with the exception of an Auschwiz survivor whom I loved as if she were my sister. Had she murdered someone I would not have been her friend.....................but she was a lady.

Israel was given by the British Empire to the Holocaust victims to have a home, but they have behaved like a cuckoo in the nest ever since going there............they have thrown all the inhabitants out of the area, and out of all the adjoining areas they have taken since then, and they have swelled their population by opening the country up to any Jew who wants to decamp and go and live there......................this was never supposed to happen. Because of this there are thousands and thousands of Russian Jews who sought sanctuary during the Soviet Regime, whom should now return to their homelands. There is a massive population with no right to be there at all. Jews have left from Golders Green in London ( a wealthy suburb) to live in Israel................Israel has been hollering that any Jew can come and live there.

We now end up with a huge Jewish population in Israel whom will have to be relocated again one day if peace is to reign.

Why do I ignore Arab criminality?

Not so...........but not all Arabs are criminals, and I do not stereotype people. As 94% of Israelis supported the war in Gaza and some picnicked on the hills overlooking the Gaza Strip to enjoy their suffering during the war................and the IDF wore tee shirts with pictures of dead Palestinian babies on them afterwards. ....

Sadly your WAR HEROES are my WAR CRIMINALS.

DIRECT FROM JERUSALEM VIA CURRENT.COM

Tonight I received this well drafted and polite message via current.com direct messaging:

FROMDATESELECT ALL

about your comment regarding to the so called "Israeli apartheid"

sent on Fri, 10 Apr 2009 23:24:28 +0000
My name is XXXX and i'm an Israeli living in Jerusalem,
your arguments about the middle-east conflict are completely biased, especially based on the fact that you blindly admire the Arab-Islamic world and totally ignoring the ongoing crimes committed by this huge and powerful 300 million people nation.
Some of your arguments are baseless, such as those ones:
"Taxpayers are spending over $1 billion to send refined fuel to the Israeli military -- at a time when Israel doesn't need it and America does."
Among American taxpayers, there are approximately 6 million Jews and 180 million devoted Christians who strongly support Israel and want their tax to be allocated to this cause,
your argument is even more empty when you look at the fact that American tax payers fund the Egyptian and the Saudi armies which are equipped with best American military weapons, why should the American taxpayers fund them?
"Jews think we are all second class citizens (the ''chosen'' race) and they have treated the Palestinians in a way that if dogs in my part of the world were treated like that there would be a HUGE outcry."
This an anti-semetic argument which has nothing to do with the current conflict in the middle east, it's even more ridiculous after being compared with other religious texts, such as the Quran which orders the elimination of non-Muslims, type the word "Dhimmi" in Google and find for yourself who Muslims think they are the superior religion in this world.
By the way, where were you when thousands of Native Africans are being massacred daily in Sudan by Arabs? When indigenous Copts, Assiryans and Marouns are persecuted by Muslim invaders? When 13 yrs old girl in Somalia who was forced to marry a man at this age is being stoned to death after being raped as it considered to be an adultery?
You somehow think that Arab-Islamic culture is decent and humanistic, and if you don't think so, why do you accuse Israel of being Apartheid nation when 22 Arab countries treat their own citizens much worse?
if you consider yourself a humanistic pacifist left wing activist, why do you ignore the criminality of the Arab society? why do you solely focus on Israel when so many crimes are being committed by fellow Arab friends?? are you an anti-semite?

this was the FULL MESSAGE:I replied to above.

A current member sent me this message:

right future generations will say it is thier land yet everyone else in the world reaches a point at wich they realize things change. the jews were in that land for three thousand years but when they were repeatedly kicked out the vast majority settled elsewhere(europe)and did so graciously. no jewish stone throwing at arabs to get thier homes back no martyrdom in the name of god they moved on recognizing the new world order. the palastinians have always had other options besides violence but refused to live in peace with the jews. the future generation has come back to say this is our land and the powers that be in the world recognize it. while i have you here im dying to know why do you hate us so much?i genuinly honestly dont understand it and desperately wish to.--
=========================

Facts are distorted or wrong. My many posts on here show that.