Day of Silence - Spurned

"I do not have such low and ignorant opinions of any U.S. Military Veterans, homosexual or not, that I should have to be "Dared" to honestly express myself to them."
That does not answer my question. Will you tell a homosexual veteran that he cannot marry his lover despite the fact he served and sacrificed for our country? Will you deny him that right?

"There is a separation between Church and State. The Government has no authority whatsoever to dictate to any Church or Religious Organization what marriage is or what or how to define or do anything."
The government is doing NONE of that. It is not telling the church to do anything. What the government IS doing is making sure people such as homosexuals are entitled to their rights as determined by the Constitution. The Church is twisting the reasoning around to the point where it does not make any sense. Marriage never belonged to the church in the first place.

"Your analogy between the Woman's Rights movement of the 1970's and this issue is, to be polite, very pathetic and inaccurate."
Really now? How was it inaccurate? You have people like Anita Bryant telling people on nationwide television saying that the feminist movement is destroying the institution of the family. She pioneered to have homosexuals banned from certain employment positions. You should do more research on that era. The arguments given back in the 70s and 80s are being regurgitated today.

"Churches and Religious groups do have the right to have their free speech, the GOvernment does not have the right to impose its will onto any Church or Religious Group. That is what is meant by "Separation of Church and State"."
First, no one doubts that the church and religious groups have the right to free speech. What they do not have the right to do is impose their religious viewpoints and try to have it passed as law.

Second, the government is not imposing ANYTHING on the church.

Third, do you even know what the phrase "Separation of Church and State" mean? Reread the entire first amendment and get back to me.

"I would just like to say that putting your videos of stupid and ignorant views up on this thread and claim that they are the views of all Christians is the same as me putting up this video and claiming that this video represents what all homosexuals are like."
Nobody here said that the videos portrays all Christians. As a matter of fact, it only portrays the fundamentalist Christians that are preaching and acting contrary to what Jesus taught.

"What gives you the right to impose your views onto religion? What gives you the authority to say that the Church and Christian faith has to change to accommodate your viewpoints?"
lol what? So, should the feminist movement be disregarded by the Church and Christians. During the late 70s to early 80s, they rallied against women's rights because they said that it "destroyed" the family and family values. If they got what they wanted, women would not be able to obtain jobs they want and would not be able to file sexual harassment. That's "imposing" a viewpoint on the Church and Christian faith. Should women's rights be taken away as well?

"but I would never want to force my views on anyone."
That's great. I applaud your comment that you will not force your view point on others. But, this is about human rights. Why should homosexuals be classified as second class citizens. There are homosexuals who work very hard toward their community, pay their taxes, and even serve their country. I DARE you to go up to a homosexual veteran and tell him, in his face, that he's not allowed to marry his lover, despite the fact that he served this country.

"Why should certain views be forced on children in schools?"
MARRIAGE IS NOT TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS!!! When did people become so retarded that they completely forgot what they learned and went through from kindergarten to 12th grade? Those lies are nothing but propaganda. It's the same stupid arguments they used to ban homosexual teachers from teaching in the late 70s. Those lies are based on nothing but fear, prejudice, and religious views. Remember, separation of church and state.

Someone flagged you? I guess that person didn't know who they were dealing with. You saying something flagable is laughable.

Keep fighting the good fight Delia.

I've been in a little bit of bitch mode lately.

Delia, that is such a great answer. I love you.

"I do not have to allow my children to be exposed to the free speech of others if I choose not to."

and you said in another post

"Christians, liberal to extreme, have every right to be upset about an organized demonstration designed to manipulate the behaviors of their children, especially at taxpayer expense."

Don't we give handouts and have special classes during Black History Month, Women's HIstory Month, etc? Don't we have parties and activities for schools on Earth Day? I'm having trouble seeing the difference between those things and this- there are certainly still racists, sexists and climate change deniers in the world, should they rally to stop the school districts from doing those things, or pull their kids from class during them?

In a word, yes. I for one don't let my kids go to school on MLK day. I didn't know there was a Women's History month and I still remember the "Ecology" movement of the early 70's in Michigan when the Detroit Free Press had continuous coverage of a projected glacier sliding down over us from Canada because we had so many unusual cold winters in a row. I thought they were enviro-Nazis from Brazil or something because of the green flags with symbols draped all over everything. I have had nightmares of you people ever since. That was inhumane to subject us kids to that bullshit. For 40 years now it's always a different term, like not glaciers but global warming, or not global warming but climate change. Every time you realize you are wrong you pick up some other evil term to rally around so you can continue to be a community of loons.Stay the fuck away from my kids.

Now, about gay kids. They should not be bullied or teased. They should not be ashamed of who they are. They should feel, an actually be, safe in every environment. Day of Silence is obviously just another way to divide us, like, oh, Black History month, Woman's Hystery month, etc. Keep that shit out of my school AND OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT. What are we? Fifth graders? We don't need, and must not have days to single out any one.

I will send you good vibes so you don't have nightmares, if that will help.

Pastors are the Protestant version of Catholic Priests. We all know about the molestations done by Catholic Priests.

Just get ready for the flood of scandals that are to come regarding Protestant Pastors. I know a few women in my community who were abused by pastors, they are so messed up, they live in fear and isolation; lacking trust in people in general. And they have another thing in common, they are severely over weight; obese.

It seems like a lot of obese people I know, who have been willing to talk about it, have sexual abuse from either a parent, pastor, or other relative in their past.

Already downloaded it using Real Player.

Congratulations, you have been successfully fooled by the dumbasses who made this video.

Although I'm sure the GLSEN would not discourage younger people to participate in the Day of Silence, their main focus is high school kids. And if you actually took the time to research this event, it's promoted as a completely voluntary action. It's not a forced action, nor is it directed to young children, like this video is trying to say. GLSEN provides information to encourage LGBT rights advocates to take part in this VOLUNTARY action, either individually or within groups at school. No one is trying to force someone else's kids to do shit, okay?

I participated in the Day of Silence years ago when I was in 8th grade. It was only my friend and I who did it and it was far from being a school organized event. Considering my school was Catholic, I'm sure it would have never been approved as a mass action. However, I can't see how you disagree with my or my friend's right to participate in this action on our own free will just because we were in junior high. Our actions weren't meant to force anyone to agree with us, it was meant to make a statement that we personally believed in. Sorry if you interpret that as "forcing" beliefs, but it's not.

Also, just to make another point, most gay kids experience bullying based on their sexual orientation during high school. Therefore, your idea of college kids participating in this event as the ideal doesn't make much sense because it goes against the entire point of the action. Or have you forgotten that there ARE gay kids in high school and, yes, even junior high who are experiencing verbal and physical violence for being queer?
I can't see how this action is so "unacceptable" for a high school setting when there are gay high school students.

You really think I haven't read the story and researched a little before writing? That means that YOU haven't. The site dayofsilence.org is where I read that MIDDLE school and SOMETIMES ELEMENTARY schools allow participation.

You say "it's promoted as a completely voluntary action. It's not a forced action,". Right . It IS promoted. There are materials, handouts, Breaking the Silence rallies afterward, etc. It is wrong to influence kids this way against their parents wishes. High School? Mmmmm, maybe, well....no. Middle School and lower? Fuck No.

Children have free speech rights, and no they aren't the property of their parents. You can't own children, that is against the law. They are merely entrusted to you by the gods. Love them and guide them, but remember, they have minds of their own.

I also participated years ago in high school when this was still a pretty new thing. It wasn't condoned by my high school. We didn't ask for the permission of our parents. We just wanted to make a statement. All we did ask for was a small table to sit at to pass out some literature. We had the table for a while then it was taken away so we sat on the ground. That was probably a blessing in disguise as it caused more of a stir than just giving us the table would have.

This is a social movement that you can't stop. This event is at NO expense to any taxpayer. No one is forced to participate. But see how effective it is? See the conversations we're having? These are the conversations they'll be having in schools and this is why the younger generations are more open than they ever were before. Freedom of speech (or freedom from speech in this case) is a wonderful thing.

When I was a kid I also participated in See You at the Pole, a very similar religious demonstration. It's held on school grounds. Teachers actually participated, as it's held before school and off the clock. Where's the outcry there? There is none because you have the right just like the gay community has the right. The schools don't condone it. They don't pay for any of it. Freedom of speech rules again. The hypocrisy in the church is just vile sometimes.

I wholly agree with holyshiite on this one, Children's minds are sacred (and quite impressionable) ground. However i believe that maybe it should only be K-9 that are covered, high school is a perfect environment to develop ones views and become a proper adult.

Sorry Eat Disco, but I had to chuckle at your post, not in a bad way though.

@cindydupree
I understand what you are saying, but you have to understand that the only requirements to get into heaven is to believe in Jesus and repent of your sins. It's not our job as Christians to tell non-believers how to live, it's to share with them the truth of Jesus.

If they follow Jesus, the spirit will convict them of sins, but that's something between them and God if/when they believe.

I do agree with you on the choice of hell. The bible teaches that Hell is a place made for Satan and his angels and that man is not meant to go there, but some choose to.

Maybe you need to read your bible a few more times so you actually understand what it says.

@slarabee, I was going to say they irritate me as much as Islamic Terrorists waging Jihad against the infidels.

@ Delia, Anti Homosexuality is not a fringe issue, it is a mainstream Christian Issue. Unless you are Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, or MCC.

Well, I'm a Methodists, and I am so tired of hearing atheists tout that this is all "our" fault. Stop claiming how "common" it is for religious people to discriminate against gays. Talk about prejudices, how about you stop making gross generalizations about MY people.

@ ares
I think its really cool that you stick up for everyone. But how do we just look at the fact that they are simply homophobes, when they use religion as a weapon?
Its hard when you're gay and you acknowledge Jesus and believe in God, but people tell you that your Damned. Why would God hate the people he creates?

Zombelle - See, there you go with that all-too-popular language again. "They" are homophobes. "They" use religion as a weapon.

I just don't think it's fair for minorities to perceive discrimination and prejudice in an entire population, and to broadcast their own prejudice onto that entire group.

@ ares
No, stop being defensive I'm not attacking you.
when I say "they" I flat out mean homophobes. not they as in Christians or robots, cattle rustlers, clowns,or musicians. "They" can pretty much mean anyone, ya know?

Well then, right on.

"Well, I'm a Methodists, and I am so tired of hearing atheists tout that this is all "our" fault. Stop claiming how "common" it is for religious people to discriminate against gays. Talk about prejudices, how about you stop making gross generalizations about MY people."

First of all, this has nothing to do with the fact that I'm an atheist. Do a little research. Religious organizations contribute the most amount of money to anti- gay marriage campaigns and make the biggest social arguments against it using god as an excuse. It IS common for religious people to discriminate against gays, plain and simple. I'm not making any gross generalizations against "your people" (whoever that may be), in fact I said "it's true that not all Christians feel this way"- if you and "your people" are not part of a group who claims homosexuality is wrong for religious reasons, then I'm not addressing you in my comment, am I?

Delia, I quite sincerely think that you have one of the best minds on this site, despite the fact that I seem to be challenging you a lot lately. But I am afraid I am going to have to do so again. I simply think that your statement about "the majority of religious people" is way WAY over the top. I don't have statistics to back up my belief that the vast majority of this country's Christians feel that the souls of gays, lesbians and transgendered people are just as beautiful as the souls of any other group of humans and that we are all equally deserving of His grace. But I am certainly not prepared to accept your contrary view without such evidence.

@ cztheday
If what you say is true, can these folks start speaking up?
we need them.

@remarkableryan, you are so right.

great post..but i refuse to believe that there are only a "few" radicals out there like this i think the numbers are greater than that

It also justifies breaking little children's head open by dashing them against the rocks.

Children are being indoctrinated to hate by their bible thumping right wing bigot type of Christians.

Religion is not the main source of the world's problems. People are.

Religion is a beautiful thing when it's in the right context. But people distort religion to their own benefit. People kill each other over religion. People judge and hate other people in the name of religion. It's not religion that's the problem. It's people. This includes people such as the early church fathers who wrote what is now scripture and formulated the doctrines of their emerging traditions. Let's not forget that religion is a wholly human construct.

There are many, many religious people who are wonderful and genuine and loving. Please don't judge an entire phenomenon by the people who abuse it.

Intolerance and wilful ignorance are the source of most evil in the world.

@nickerbocker09, you are so right. Not all Christians are bigots. I know many who are very loving. They are Quakers and Methodists and Lutherans and Presbyterians.

@clipsfc, what do you mean Youtube took it down. Its still there.

Oh I meant in response to the article where he said .." Youtube has since taken it down" I misunderstood sorry :)

They remind me of the indoctrinated Hitler youth. If spurred on by their leaders, they would commit crimes in the name of Jesus like the Catholics did during the Inquisition.

Hitler was a Christian and he saw it as his mission to establish the 1000 year reign of Christ. He also believed that the Jews killed Jesus his lord and savior. So when he went after the Jews he was killing them for Christ.

Yes, how did we miss the connection!?!?! This new wave of Christian sons of bitches is OBVIOUSLY a new third reich! SWEET JESUS HOW DID WE MISS THE SIGNS?

i don't think jubal was saying what you think he was, he was pointing out that intolerance in the name of the lord is still just as horrible as it is in the name of whatever. Its never a good idea to separate a group of people, no matter how much you disagree with them, that's what debate and argument was made for. When you vilify people you send the message that this is an ok thing to do. I don't blame you we have been fed intolerance our whole lives. I cant even watch a movie or a tv show without at least some form of racism, sexism, or down right fear of a person sexuality is exploited. We where fed to fear anything that wasn't what you where, and forced into these roles that we all play, i personally think human sexuality is much more vast and complicated then what we make it out to be. These are people, even if they do things you disagree with, and we should treat all people with the same compassion and respect that we would want for ourselves. If there is a group of people you don't agree with then that's your right, and you should not sit quietly, but when you use propaganda such as this they ultimate end is always completely horrible.

the vast majority of schools do not sponsor any gay oriented events or information. A good percentage of schools do not even allow gay/straight alliance clubs, and the day of silence is student led- not school sponsored. absolutely nothing is shoved down the throats of christian students, unless you regard having to coexist with people difference from themselves as having something "shoved down their throats." bullying and violence are not "freedom of speech or freedom of religion." if it was the christian kids getting bullied and hurt in school, you wouldn't call it that. disagreement is fine. discrimination and violence is absolutely not, and that's all the day of silence is trying to raise awareness against.

if you discriminate (NOT if you simply disagree) you ARE a bigot, sorry.

Racheanne, I agree with you that there's no logic behind this video, and we can't be encouraging discrimination in any form, but I think it's important that we make a distinction here:

I think being gay is, well, pretty gross. I tolerate gay people because they're not going to change, and it really just doesn't effect me. They're not having sex on my front lawn every day (Louis CK), so what do I care? What I think a lot of people have a problem with is being told that they MUST accept, like, embrace gay people. As I said, I think it's just gross, pointless, and unnatural (save your animal examples for someone else). That said, I find no reason that they should be afforded lesser rights than anyone else. They're still people, and deserve to be treated as such.

All I'm saying is, there's a difference between tolerance and acceptance. I would never discriminate against a gay person, were I in a position to do so, but that doesn't mean I'm going to like them. The law doesn't say we have to like everyone.

Uncle, no one has ever taught that it is preferable and you well know that. You are fighting with a straw argument as usual.
As a married heterosexual, they pose no threat to my marriage. They do not threaten yours either.

Ive never heard of a school teaching that homosexual relations are better than heterosexual relations. At best schools will state that they are an acceptable lifestyle.

Why does teaching that others are equal equate encouraging that lifestyle?

You've never heard of schools teaching it is preferable to be homosexual because it doesn't happen. It's propaganda.

People don't realize how stupid they sound when they regurgitate all the bullshit they're fed.

Ares, I honestly think that the vast majority of Gay people are born Gay. There is a new study about the number of boys a woman has and the increase in Gay male births after. They think that some kind of antibody is formed, like the antibody to RH factor. I am not a scientists and can not fully explain what I read, but basically they are starting to find reasons for believing it is genetic.

"I don't want my kids to be taught the homosexual lifestyle is better than being heterosexual, and is preferable to it." Don't worry, no one teaches that.

"As I said, I think it's just gross, pointless, and unnatural (save your animal examples for someone else)." What's pointless about it? Love is pointless? "Save your animal examples for someone else" = "I don't care about actual evidence that it is in fact natural, I prefer to stew about in my ignorance instead." THAT'S what I find to be gross.

Same here Delia. Jesus said, my people perish for lack of knowledge.

Ignorance is what kills, not tolerance and love.

Wow... unclecharlie.....You put together a whole coherent paragraph made up of actual sentences rather than your usual gibberish. Good for you. Disagree with most of what you said but good for you anyways.

What's pointless about it? Love is pointless? "Save your animal examples for someone else" = "I don't care about actual evidence that it is in fact natural, I prefer to stew about in my ignorance instead." THAT'S what I find to be gross.

OK I'll tell you point blank what I find to be gross, two men having sex with each other. There is literally no biological purpose for that. None. You can't tell me with a straight face or a brain in that thick skull of yours that there is any natural benefit to two men or women having sex. The mechanics just aren't there. There's no justifiable end to those means. Unless of course you want to drag science into it, in which case I would say you are IMMEDIATELY making a distinction that sets us apart from the animals. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

As for your claim that I am stewing in my ignorance, wasn't it not too long ago that you folks were claiming how "great" it was that there were two gay penguins in a zoo? Let's compare the behavioral tendencies of a human to a penguin, shall we? Would you contend that a penguin can feel hunger and thirst? Indeed. How about lust? Hatred? Joy, jealousy, despondence? Would a penguin know the physics behind the solar system? Does a penguin know what the solar system is? No, because they're fucking stupid. Human beings are the most advanced, complex beings on the face of this Earth, and if you want to compare our behavioral capacity to that of a instinct-driven creature, be my guest, but it will fall on deaf ears. Comparing human sexual orientation to animal orientation is like saying "Well my dog likes to eat his own shit, so I guess that means it's normal for me to eat my shit too."

1) drag science into it...

wait...let me get this straight...you are saying that our capacity for science indicates that we are not oriented by genetically bound behaviors?

ah...multiple twin studies will dispute that....

anyways, sorry to use science against you here but...

"There is literally no biological purpose for that. None. You can't tell me with a straight face or a brain in that thick skull of yours that there is any natural benefit to two men or women having sex. The mechanics just aren't there."

In theory, it could be a genetically bound behavior that triggers when the epigenome (sp? - it's late) causes that behavior to be expressed. Not saying that this is why it happens in higher beings, but it clearly occurs in the animal kingdom and this is one of many valid explanations.

As such, it could be bound to any number (or interaction of) of environmental variables, intended to produce a benefit.

For example, the greedy gene theory has it occurring to prompt superior resources to go to the offspring of siblings (hence the greedy gene)

So, while I am NOT claiming that this is the cause of homosexuality. I am stating that it seems to serve a purpose (or, at least there are viable theories saying such) in the animal kingdom. Perhaps there is some sort of purpose that it serves in higher life forms.

In truth, I don't know. I only know that hate is wrong...that seems to be a lesson that you haven't learned yet.

It doesn't seem to me like you're alleging anything at all. You're simply stating that there are theories suggesting that homosexuality can be genetically explained in lesser beings. That doesn't mean that there is a purpose to it. Unless gay wolves start growing uteri, I'll stand by my logic.

Oh and yes, woe is me for not learning that hate is wrong. I'll tell you one thing for sure, there are people on this website that hate people like me, and that's OK, because I hate people like them too. Everyone hates somebody, if you think hate is wrong and mature people only experience benevolence then you're the one who has some growing up to do.