Community | May 08, 2009 | 53 comments

Private Christian School gone too far?

source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_re_us/us_school_dance_flap

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anglcazn
FINDLAY, Ohio – A student at a fundamentalist Baptist school that forbids dancing, rock music, hand-holding and kissing will be suspended if he takes his girlfriend to her public high school prom, his principal said.

Despite the warning, 17-year-old Tyler Frost, who has never been to a dance before, said he plans to attend Findlay High School's prom Saturday.

Frost, a senior at Heritage Christian School in northwest Ohio, agreed to the school's rules when he signed a statement of cooperation at the beginning of the year, principal Tim England said.

The teen, who is scheduled to receive his diploma May 24, would be suspended from classes and receive an "incomplete" on remaining assignments, England said. Frost also would not be permitted to attend graduation but would get a diploma once he completes final exams. If Frost is involved with alcohol or sex at the prom, he will be expelled, England said.

Frost's stepfather Stephan Johnson said the school's rules should not apply outside the classroom.

"He deserves to wear that cap and gown," Johnson said.

Frost said he thought he had handled the situation properly. Findlay requires students from other schools attending the prom to get a signature from their principal, which Frost did.

"I expected a short lecture about making the right decisions and not doing something stupid," Frost said. "I thought I would get his signature and that would be the end."

England acknowledged signing the form but warned Frost there would be consequences if he attended the dance. England then took the issue to a school committee made up of church members, who decided to threaten Frost with suspension.

"In life, we constantly make decisions whether we are going to please self or please God. (Frost) chose one path, and the school committee chose the other," England said.

The handbook for the 84-student Christian school says rock music "is part of the counterculture which seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds."

England said Frost's family should not be surprised by the school's position.

"For the parents to claim any injustice regarding this issue is at best forgetful and at worst disingenuous," he said. "It is our hope that the student and his parents will abide by the policies they have already agreed to."

The principal at Findlay High School, whose graduates include Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, said he respects, but does not agree with, Heritage Christian School's view of prom.

"I don't see (dancing and rock music) as immoral acts," Craig Kupferberg said.

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Does the school have the right to threaten suspension and expulsion for taking his girlfriend to her prom?
What are your thoughts?
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53 comments // Private Christian School gone too far?

  • gbboone
  • Stoneyroad
  • D_Legendary1
    • 0
      D_Legendary1  

    • Sorry but if you sign away your freedoms to a private institution you deserve to be kicked out for being a dumbass. The NFL, NBA, and MLB have rules for playing in their league and if you don't want to abide by the rules then don't bitch once you sign on the dotted line.The same applies for rinky-dink organizations that specialize in brainwashing as well.

    • 3 years ago
  • Scarabus
    • 0
      Scarabus  
    • Image

    • I've always been curious about why religious fundamentalists of so many faiths are so prudish and uptight about something as obviously natural as sex -- including Christians, Muslims, and Hindus.

    • 3 years ago
  • carligula
    • 0
      carligula  

    • If it were anyone else I would care but this kid belongs to an oppressive organization that discriminates against gays and lesbians.

      Over it. I hope he gets kicked out.

    • 3 years ago
  • GoodGodGuy
    • 0
      GoodGodGuy  

    • Is this school being partially funded by the US? Under faith based initiative. Check that out. Also if we want to use the "old testament", we have to comply with all of the book. This includes not touching a woman in her time and stoning for a lot of little offense like maybe give up your bacon in the morning etc. Oh yeah I love how the CR pick and choose which part of Leviticus they choose to respect.

    • 3 years ago
  • GoodGodGuy
  • Ricky84
    • 0
      Ricky84  

    • Oh come on even the pope was cool with a group of break dancers getting down in the Vatican! I say this kid should take his punishment and file this event as a lesson well learned. I know I would.

      Then again that's the thing about hindsight.I know that even though I was stopped from doing so many things as a christian nothing compared to the experience I had after moving. Yeah that's right, I'd trade every dance from now to infinity just for the memory of laughing uncontrollably in my moms face when asked if I was ever going to church again.

    • 3 years ago
  • malathion
  • malathion
  • fun_size
  • anglcazn
    • 0
      anglcazn  

    • Wow, I didn't think I'd get this many responses. Thanks for contributing everyone! :)

      At first, I was ambivalent towards the subject. I dislike the actions by the school, but then again, it is a private school.

      Mik661, along with others in the thread, brought up a very good point. The school has state accreditation, therefore it cannot strip Mr. Frost of his diploma based on a violation of religious beliefs and actions. Therefore, his diploma should be awarded to him as such.

      I have to agree. Give him his diploma or have their state accreditation stripped away and be categorized as a private home schooling program.

    • 3 years ago
  • Saladin
    • 0
      Saladin  

    • I have to agree with mik661. If the school is state accredited, which it is and would have to be to issue diplomas, then the school has no right to take away his diploma based on some arbitrary incident that conflicts with their religious beliefs OUTSIDE of their school grounds.

      If the school wants to do this, then its accreditation should be stripped.

      It's absurd. It wouldn't be acceptable in any other circumstance, why should it be allowed here?

    • 3 years ago
  • unimatrix0
    • 0
      unimatrix0  

    • great post anglcazn

      I come down on the side of the school. Frost was not forced to go to a religious school. He chose to go; he chose to accept the rules.

      Now he has another choice - go to prom and skip graduation - or skip prom and go to graduation. Life is like that. We make choices and we must live with those choices.

      Now featured on the Humanist channel:
      http://current.com/groups/humanism

    • 3 years ago
  • mik661
    • 0
      mik661  
    • unimatrix0:

      I disagree. relinquish your state accreditation and become a home school organization then. Requiring conformity to religious beliefs outside of school or denying the student his diploma is a step out of bounds.

    • 3 years ago
  • bluestranger
    • 0
      bluestranger  
    • unimatrix0:

      This is the point where the seperation issue gets sticky. Does the school receive any state or fed moneys? There are public schools that require parents to sign off on school rules and policy. At the same time there are no morality issues involved. This one deserves morestudy.

    • 3 years ago
  • spindian_shaw
    • 0
      spindian_shaw  
    • unimatrix0:

      you really think this kid made the choice for himself? most likely it was his parents that made the choice for him. sadly, its usually the parent that begin the lon road of brainwashing their own child into their own beliefs and hatreds.

    • 3 years ago
  • kyackr
    • 0
      kyackr  

    • well i hope this incident will send him down a path of
      thinking for himself and walk away from this religious nonsense

    • 3 years ago
  • NickerBocker09
  • idealist
    • 0
      idealist  

    • i wonder if in the scools bathroom, if they have a sighn that says, " remember, thats concentrated sin coming out of you! wash your hands!"
      i would want to rebel just from all those rules in general.
      if those rules werent in place i wouldent think about doing them as much..... maby

    • 3 years ago
  • mik661
    • 0
      mik661  

    • Private school or not as long as they are allowed the privilege to be accredited by the state to issue diplomas, it is wrong to deny this young mans based on something that occurs outside of school. Where to they have the right to dictate behavior outside of the school? Saying that they signed a contract is bullshit. The contract should be ruled enforceable or they should remove their accreditation.

    • 3 years ago
  • CiGuArAyA
  • spindian_shaw
  • UrbanGypsy
    • 0
      UrbanGypsy  

    • Thats what you get when you send your kids to a religious school... Serves as a lesson.

      Thats religious tolerance for ya! I hope they keep acting like this, it only gives more firepower to people who've been saying that religion in people's lives is stupid and makes no sense...

      After all the school is private and they get to do what they want. It just really shows how compassionate they are...

    • 3 years ago
  • Kwyjibo
    • 0
      Kwyjibo  

    • His parents should just let him switch schools, so he can have a normal life without risking his future. Seriously, what were they thinking?

    • 3 years ago
  • spindian_shaw
    • 0
      spindian_shaw  

    • WHAT? A YOUNGSTER STRAYING FROM THE FLOCK?! HE'S THINKING FOR HIMSELF? HE DISOBEYS THEY CHURCH???

      if this was yesteryear, he would be killed, in the name of their made up god.

      instead, he will be labeled and punished in front of the entire fellowship. and threatened with banishment if he disobeys further....

      what year are these freaks in?
      i would rather be a flip burgers than to stand in their judgement, cowards...

    • 3 years ago
  • JanforGore
  • uppityprogressive
    • 0
      uppityprogressive  

    • My 14 year old told me of this story before I saw it.

      Two thoughts: if you restrict your flock from dancing, the only place they will be able to get the high that comes with it will be in your hallelujah halls-your church, so keep it rockin' and keep them restricted.

      And-if you want more private schools, keep pushing to close those public schools which must serve everyone and must be somewhat accountable to the community.

      All over the country public schools are closing. Not because of the Great Republican Recession, but because those who want private schools because they profit from creating them, or profit from widening the gap between rich and poor in this country, want them closed.

      Nationally, the Business Round Table and Right Wing activists have been working on this for years. There is a process; make bogus reports commissioned by Regan to start with that say public schools are in crisis, promote charters and vouchers, eliminate taxes for the rich, call public schools down in every news outlet (mostly owned by rightwing imperialists), repeat the lie based on Regans commissioned reports that public schools suck, get control of the school boards and shut down those schools.

      Oh, and bonus, if you make text books, online education or charter schools, your in like flint!

    • 3 years ago
  • current89
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  
    • DeliaTheArtist:

      Amazing, no?

      Who knew that the supreme being actually wanted us to be kept in emotional and physical straitjackets until it was time to wed a perfect stranger and beget?

      Return Of The Repressed?

      Is it any wonder that so many fundamentalists and sex-segregated prep-school kids have sex-related problems? A senator needs to be diapered and spanked? Preachers can't keep away from meth, crack, and hookers but denounce them every Sunday?

      Kids kept isolated from others go "postal" or become Republicans?

      No one is ever going to convince me that teaching kids the importance of self-disciple and reciprocal respect is a bad idea. But all this insane behavioral censorship?

      For any of you familiar with Chinese and Russian history under Communism - this is exactly what it looked like.

    • 3 years ago
  • bluestranger
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  

    • If I give you a stock tip, "Go invest in such and such", or suggest a bet on a horse race, and either one (or both!) pay big money: I'm a great guy. I know stuff. I can see the future. Sort of.

      But if I suddenly turn around and say,

      "Now, you know already that I'm always right, so look here. That daughter of yours is a walking device of Temptation because Our Lord made wimmen inferior and evil. It wasn't on purpose but because other than Adam's Rib, He had a lack of spare parts.

      And that mother of hers, she don't look like a straight shooter. She's got some demon in her. I'll just bet she's taught your kid to seduce the first helpless boy to come along, to knock her up and get preggers!

      My advice - keep em both locked in the cellar before that nice young Tyler Frost is in a world of SIN."

      What would you say in response? What would you do? How far does any religious authority have to go to go too far?

      I'd agree with anglcazn, jahbini, neocongo, slarabee, and viciouspike.

      In the case of Tyler Frost, the mania about Potential Sin is precisely in the head of those who assume he's so stupid that he'll do the worst that can be expected of any kid.

      His behavior is fine and NORMAL.

      The school's demands are way over the top.

      If this school gets state or federal funds it's time to cut them off. If parents weren't aware how micromanaged (and abused by paranoid adults) these kids truly are, it's time now to pull the kids out and let this school close.

      At a huge cost in lives we blew the Third Reich to Hell. We don't need a Hitler Youth camp run by a religious Gestapo to start treating American kids like robots.

    • 3 years ago
  • Scarabus
    • 0
      Scarabus  

    • An old joke:

      Question: "Why do Baptists oppose couples' having sex while standing up?"

      Answer: "They're afraid it might lead to dancing."

      *****
      On the other hand, there are the lyrics to the song "Come Dance with Me," whose Diana Krall version I have:

      And while the rhythm swings, what lovely things Ill be sayin,

      For what is dancing but making love set to music, playin.

      (Applies only to slow dancing unless you're a Klingon.)

    • 3 years ago
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  
    • Scarabus:

      Too beautiful, that one!

      Anecdotes.

      On first seeing the Tango performed, the French Ambassador turns to the Argentinian Ambassador and says, "Very different. At home we do that on the horizontal plane!"

    • 3 years ago
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  
    • Scarabus:

      Heard shouted to the crowd by a vendor at a religious baseball game during their World Series..

      Peanuts! Popcorn! Corn dogs!
      Indulgences!
      Get your red hot indulgences!
      Three for a dollar!
      Indulgences!
      While they last!
      Indulgences!

    • 3 years ago
  • barbara3d
    • 0
      barbara3d  
    • Scarabus:

      nice Scarabus...
      Men and women have been "dancing since the beginning of time". Some cultures view it as celebration.
      I love the old movies with the women and their hoop skirts and men in tux doing the minuet,lol

      This is the religion of "Hell , Fire and Brimstone!" WAAY out on the fringes and dying a slow death. It is hard to believe that a young man be punished and embarrassed in front of his peers like this. And what about "If he drinks alcohol or has sex he will be expelled!" Will they put some kind of monitor on him to be sure?

      This is a way for religion/people to gain control and power. I believe our conscience is our guide.

      It was hard for me but with so many kids drinking, driving and getting pregnant....Our choice was for the Senior Prom, a gift of a condom, education about STDs, and being as sure as I could be that there was a 'designated driver'. We have to release them and let them find their own ways as hard as it is. This to me, makes the kids more bitter and angry.

      And this same Preacher would pat him on the back if he joined the military and went to war to kill. OK to kill, just don't dance:)

    • 3 years ago
  • Scarabus
    • 0
      Scarabus  
    • Scarabus:

      Ah, Ms. B! Your reference to "conscience" reminds me of Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn.

      As he and Jim are drifting downstream with the current, Huck is faced with a dilemma. He's sharing his raft with a runaway slave. A ... person? he has been reared to see as someone's property.

      Problem? This man is also Huck's friend and in many ways his surrogate father.

      Gut-check, time!

      Huck's response?

      He chooses natural heart over socially-determined "conscience," and stays faithful to his friend. He's learning. That's obvious in the Phelps Farm episode where Tom Sawyer represents stunted growth and Huck represents the potential for honor and maturity that experience provides -- provided one's heart is recptive.

    • 3 years ago
  • Viciouspike
    • 0
      Viciouspike  

    • This is ridiculous... I am a christian and everything but how the hell are they going to throw the God card at this... They have to morals.. It sickens me... He is 18 has the right to do something like this without such far out consequences... My faith in the church has been dropped once again...

    • 3 years ago
  • slarabee
  • jahbini
    • 0
      jahbini  
    • slarabee:

      But do you deny Tyler's right to make such a choice? After all, this is not a case of 'in loco parentis' because the parents have already had their say.

      The church certainly has a right to withdraw their 'supposed holy blessings' from Tyler (and God knows what ever they may be worth).

      But to withhold the secular aspects of matriculation and a High School diploma? I would say NO, they do not have that right.

    • 3 years ago
  • neocongo
  • jahbini
    • 0
      jahbini  
    • neocongo:

      M*U*S*T
      s*T*a*Y
      i*n
      C*n*T*O*L.

      Evil body base thoughts devil drain me of G*D's blessing. Oh, no, hand full of wet sticky starch. My Purity of Essence is lost.

      Must wipe it off on those who deserve Hell's fury, Ahhhh. Now i can sleep until the furies take my mind again.

      (Courtesy of Dr. Strangelove)

    • 3 years ago
  • unclecharlie
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  

    • Ain't it rich when Southerners demand respect for religious integrity and diversity and then good old Red State Georgia, strikes another blow for religious freedom – if you happen to be Christian.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/us/07brfs-RESIGNATIONO_BRF.html?ref=todayspape...

      “A member of the board of the State Bar of Georgia has resigned after the organizers of a national mock trial competition refused to reschedule a team of Jewish students so they would not have to compete on Saturday.

      The board member, Elizabeth Price, said she was resigning because the board “was not dealing with the situation appropriately.”

      State high school champions are in Atlanta for the tournament. The team from Maimonides School, an Orthodox Jewish high school in Brookline, Mass., is forbidden for religious reasons to take part on Saturday. Its petition to compete instead on Thursday and Friday was rejected. “

      See? Hell's Bells, Louise! Now what the wrong with those Northern Yankees?

      Everyone knows where the true Sabbath came from - Israel, so what's the problem here?

      Saturday's not for prayin', that's the day everybody goes to the malls!

    • 3 years ago
  • jahbini
    • 0
      jahbini  

    • Tyler Frost has chosen to honor God by following the rules of the man-woman encounter.

      To reject the opportunities of positive intimacy is to reject the divine plan -- a plan that is essential in the continuation of life.

      There is an interchange of energies that our divine creator has put in place and all must surrender to. To reject God's plan is a sin, and I respect Tyler for not following those who would reject that divine plan.

      In more secular humanist terms, Mr and Mrs Church Member, While I respect your beliefs, maybe you should get your nose out of a dead book and find God by looking at life.

    • 3 years ago
  • AveryMoore
  • tootersmoocher
  • AveryMoore
  • spindian_shaw
    • 0
      spindian_shaw  
    • tootersmoocher:

      WHAT? A YOUNGSTER STRAYING FROM THE FLOCK?! HE'S THINKING FOR HIMSELF? HE DISOBEYS THEY CHURCH???

      if this was yesteryear, he would be killed, in the name of their made up god.

      instead, he will be labeled and punished in front of the entire fellowship. and threatened with banishment if he disobeys further....

      what year are these freaks in?
      i would rather be a flip burgers than to stand in their judgement, cowards...

    • 3 years ago
  • tootersmoocher
    • 0
      tootersmoocher  
    • tootersmoocher:

      I would never send my children to private school, so although this is a troubling article, it really overall means shit to me. I don't care what they do. I am almost intrigued at what they think they can get away with.

      Waterboarding?...that's a bit of a stretch, but I guess I get your drift. Again, I would simply never consider giving them money. Period. You feed a stray one night, and it will want even more in the future.

    • 3 years ago
  • UWAZell
    • 0
      UWAZell  
    • tootersmoocher:

      The original post says it all... 'emphasis on the "private" in private school. You pay to play...by their rules.' Personally, I plan on sending my kids to private school the entire way through if possible. If you want freedom to express yourself, etc. in a school atmosphere public school is free for everyone.

    • 3 years ago
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