Community | June 01, 2009 | 48 comments

OBAMA fascist regime a 'Reluctant' Holder in Restructured GM ?

source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124385428627671889.html

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akamaial
~ Monday, U.S. President Barack Obama defended government intervention in GM as the auto maker enters Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Under the plan, the government would own 60% of the new GM, but Mr. Obama said auto executives "will call the shots and make the decisions about turning this company around."
(He said the government would refrain from playing a management role in all but the most critical areas.)
Meanwhile, GM Chairman Kent Kresa said he will keep five current members of the board of directors, and said that (the Obama administration has final say on who will fill out the new board.)

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~ So the the GOVERNMENT HAS THE FINAL SAY ?...democracy, socialism, fascism or what?
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48 comments // OBAMA fascist regime a 'Reluctant' Holder in Restructured GM ?

  • McCainiac
    • 0
      McCainiac  

    • @neocongo. Do you make up your own definintions? Just like the government, say something and it's so. Fascism is strong autocratic control from a militaristic, sometimes racist, central government. It may be the fact that economic times have forced the government to act in a way that is a ideoligical move towards fascism, but other ways could have been used. Bush and Paulson started it with the 700 billion bail out. They should have let businesses fail and if the credit markets froze, so be it. Now the new administration is pressing the limits and it's not clear whether they plan to keep moving towards fascism or get back to a free society.

    • 2 years ago
  • Abraham99
    • 0
      Abraham99  

    • This ciountry used to have friends. Now, with Mr. Obama's encouragement, our friends are being told to shut up and allow our enemies to spread out and arm themselves. For example, Israel was threatened with destruction by Iran, so it wanted to destroy its enemy's capabilities before Iran builds up even more. So, Mr. Obama told Israel to keep their hands off Iran at least uintil December 31st.
      Another example, South Kor3ea wants to defend itself agianst North Korea's nuclear threats and against them pointing missiles at South Korean cities. Mr. Obama told them to shut up and wait and give North Korea more time to think this over.
      All this without even one ISM, all this without even mentioning the nationalization of financing and manufacturing. Meanwhile, after throwing a trillion dollars at various industries, Mr. Obama is allowing and encouraging them to go bankrupt, thus assuring a total loss of that one trillion dollars.
      The Democrats wanted "change" and they have it. He also has not even done what the Democrats elected him for. Meanwhile, health care is going down the drain and people all over are sick and have no insurance. Of course, we all already know, they also have no jobs.

    • 2 years ago
  • Saladin
  • iloveravi
    • 0
      iloveravi  

    • America id definitely becoming fascist. If you do not notice that you need to sit down and look at the facts.

      Obama should be ashamed of maintaining so many of the Republican's unforgivably un-American policies.

      As a side bar, ALL republicans should stop complaining about Obama being a fascist or socialist as it makes them appear to be the stupidest, most hypocritical morons in the whole world. (unless they were ALSO critical of the same policies under Bush.)

    • 2 years ago
  • librelover
    • 0
      librelover  
    • iloveravi:

      It's actually most stupid not stupidest. Sorry to correct you. However, Ron Paul ran under the Republican party and he definitely did not support the Republican parties current path.

    • 2 years ago
  • iloveravi
    • 0
      iloveravi  
    • iloveravi:

      If RP didn't support the BUSHES than he has the right to speak up. As I said in my post.

      But for the rest of the GOP that called it non-american to not support Bush's policy of removing liberty and privacy and then call it fascism under Obama....it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

      [Oh and for the record "stupidest" is an acceptable superlative form of stupid. "Most stupid" is more common but not more correct. Language is fluid and correcting grammar and spelling on the internets makes you look like a jerk.]

    • 2 years ago
  • librelover
    • 0
      librelover  
    • iloveravi:

      Hey, it was constructive criticism. I'll take yours as the same.

      The people that supported the Bush Administration should have to reconcile their position with the Republican platform before they can continue to call themselves Republican. Then again, perhaps they old Republican platform of limited government truly has passed. Then again, many limited government supporters are the same people railing against partisan politics in the first place.

    • 2 years ago
  • Robroy1
  • akamaial
  • Ragan
    • 0
      Ragan  

    • I wonder how many share holders there were? Now all of those share holders have lost their investments. One lady had invested $70,000 6 years ago and now from that $70,000 she is left holding $200.00. Some body must have benefited from this but who? But perhaps those who had held preferred stock had sold and collected the monney's that disappeared.

    • 2 years ago
  • neocongo
    • 0
      neocongo  

    • I can't believe I have to do this over and over and over for you ism slinging rinky dinks.

      Communism - Government controls the economy.

      Fascism - Industry controls the government.

      While it is wild hyperbole to label any action by a Democrat either Communist or Fascist, it is utterly wrong and exhibits ignorance to describe government intervention in industry as "Fascist." This kind of thing just shows you really are ignorant, and will say anything because you hate Obama and Democrats.

      You are a hater.

    • 2 years ago
  • FrankyZemo
    • 0
      FrankyZemo  
    • neocongo:

      oh quiet, stoner. I hate Obama, because hes a liar like all politicians, he gave away billions of our tax dollars for what? Because "bankruptcy is not an option" ... bullshit.

      Oh wait, no, scratch that...not our tax dollars, but money they can just print out of thin air!

    • 2 years ago
  • Eliyahoo
  • kiltedandfree
    • 0
      kiltedandfree  
    • neocongo:

      Yeah, just like the dems and Bush, you loved to hate. Also, dems and Obama are so damn easy to hate, you know. Over the past 8 years of Bush I tried to speak reason and against hatred, but liberals are of such ilk that hatred is so easy and just because you are there it demands hatred, ya know. lol

    • 2 years ago
  • librelover
    • 0
      librelover  
    • neocongo:

      Straight from wikipedia neocongo... I love how you ignore my retorts and continue along trying to spread your misinformation.

      [In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state communism.[10][11] This was to be achieved by a form of government control over business and labor (called "the corporate state" by Mussolini)]
      -Fascism
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    • 2 years ago
  • JohnA
  • Saladin
    • 0
      Saladin  

    • Apparently the "socialist" bullshit propaganda label didn't work, so now conservative fucktards are trying for a stronger label.

      Too bad you guys are the ones with close ties with fascism historically and ideologically.

      Fail harder, PLEASE. This helps us SO much.

    • 2 years ago
  • petervan
    • 0
      petervan  
    • Saladin:

      Socialism and Fascism are and have always been just two sides of the same centralized planning coin.

      Under socialism both ownership AND control of the means of production are relinquished to the state (the abolition of private property).

      Under Fascism, at least as it was practiced by Mussolini and Hitler, control of productive means is given to the state while a sham of ownership is left in private hands.

      If the distinction seems subtle and irrelevant... IT IS! Fascism was a political invention to make socialism more palatable to wealthier Western Europeans. It found a home in nations where asking the citizens to give up property was.. asking too much.

      Fascism is a slogan (a very very evil one): "All the benefits of a centrally planned economy, AND you can keep the title to your property!"

      Trouble is... ownership means nothing without control. Volkswagen remained "Private" but you can bet they had no choice whether or not to machines for the Nazi war effort.

      In this light, Obama's political line from the article: "(He said the government would refrain from playing a management role in all but the most critical areas.)" sounds nice... but can we trust it?

      And furthermore... if we cannot trust it, how would our government's relationship to GM be any different than Mussolini's to Alfa Romeo or Hitler's to Volkswagon?

      You can say that Obama isn't the monster that either of those men were (and, of course, I'd agree, he isn't) but... the amount of power he wields (in this regard) is shockingly close.

    • 2 years ago
  • montesooma
    • 0
      montesooma  
    • Saladin:

      so your saying it's just conservative fucktards, that's interesting because i just read an article in which the russians are warning america that we are going down the fascist road -- the article also mentions that some americans accept this because they are the product of a substandard education (dumbed down), that is the part the mentions you.

    • 2 years ago
  • petervan
    • 0
      petervan  
    • Saladin:

      Name calling is a real great way to prove your point. Wow! I don't know what to say now!

      Look. I voted for Obama. McCain scared the shit out of me. Trouble is Obama did too, on some issues...

      The way I see it, we're faced, on all sides, with dangerous paths.

      Bush actually put in place more regulation (in dollar/cost terms) than any president in history: http://www.reason.com/news/show/130328.html
      All of it (I suspect) to favor certain industries over others. And, worse, he set the bailout precedent with the banks.. sending us all further down the road to fascism than any democrat ever has.

      McCain would have continued a long-standing trend of further inflating the military industrial complex... more bombers to kill more babies with our tax dollars (a great speech from Eisenhower on the subject: http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html)

      Trouble is, Obama has admitted that we're going to be running trillion dollar deficits, he's expanding the war in Afganistan, he's nationalizing American companies, and he's doing it all with American tax dollars.

      From one young man to another (I'm assuming from your picture that we're both twenty-somethings) can't you drop the profanity for a moment and agree with me that your sick of the government spending your money (or your future) to kill people... to build shitty cars... to pay executive salaries?!
      Or are you too blinded by partisanism to be a true patriot?

    • 2 years ago
  • librelover
    • 0
      librelover  
    • Saladin:

      Saladin, your use of conservative is extremely confusing. What do you mean by conservative? Isn't conservative supposed to be limited government? Republican has taken on a new meaning since their loss during the civil liberties movement. At that time, they were not pro-discrimination but against the use of government enforced discrimination in the name of equality. Since then, they have tried to rebrand as an activist "moral majority" party. Their increased use of government intervention in moral issues has expanded into a more liberal version of the once conservative party.

      In the end, my point is that I do not see your association of conservative and fascist. Please explain.

    • 2 years ago
  • Saladin
    • 0
      Saladin  
    • Saladin:

      @ libre

      You can substitute conservative for neo-con if you feel I've painted too broad a stroke.

      In reality of course, all the labels are meaningless. I just use them to refer to common trends.

      But the bottom line is that even if "real" conservatives feel like the Republican party has gone too far, that vast, VAST majority of people who call themselves conservative identify with them. And your vision of conservatism hasn't existed arguably since the 1920's.

      So when I say conservatives, I do mean neo-cons. But I don't bother to make a distinction for the odd 1% of people who hold the values that conservatives are supposed to hold. There's just not really a point.

    • 2 years ago
  • librelover
    • 0
      librelover  
    • Saladin:

      The point is to maintain the conservative values that have been hijacked by neo-cons. To be ambiguous about it is to discredit the actual conservatives that attempt to maintain those values.

    • 2 years ago
  • kiltedandfree
    • 0
      kiltedandfree  

    • Scarabus, how can you be loving this, you act as though this is the status quo and business as usual. Well, never in the history of the United States has a president taken over an auto industry without Congress approval, given so much to banks, and so many other industries on his whim, again, without the approval from the Congress. He has avioded our fallen in Germany so as to not upset the Germans. bowed to a Muslim King, and on the same trip visited a mosque, apologized for Americans, announced this no longer a Christian nation, and he is NOT A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES. We have a president that went to school as Barry Soetreo, his step dad's name up until he converted to Muslim and changed his name. Never have we elected a Muslim President. He never changed his name back so he must still be Muslim. I doubt Muslims would take him. Yes, leftist idiotology has saved this country. Leftist guilt for slavery. Now I suppose they can sleep at night right after they take all the guns away from law abiding people and keep the criminals armed. I'm sure they feel real guilty for all the poor blacks in prison. So let em out, that will fix things. We have a president that was born in Kenya. I cannot wait for this to come out and for Obama to deal with the aftermath. That will be so good.

    • 2 years ago
  • jh64487
    • 0
      jh64487  
    • kiltedandfree:

      my god, you've uncovered his secret that all the people in charge from all sides are withholding from the public . how have you managed to not be silenced by this fascist regime!? you must be an amazing hacker or something!!

      kiltedand...dumb

    • 2 years ago
  • petervan
    • 0
      petervan  
    • kiltedandfree:

      As a libertarian and some one weary and wary of Politics, Obama, Bush, congress, and the courts I'd like to say that this comment from kiltedand does NOT represent my views (or I think the views of many earnest libertarians out there)

      If Obama would do ANY one of the following:
      1)cut defense spending
      2)touch the third rail of social security
      3)end the fed
      4)get rid of the FCC or the FTC or the SEC or the.....
      I wouldn't mind if he was actually born in North Korea!

      Hell, if he actually closes Guantanamo and puts a stop to "enhanced interrogation techniques" he's got a small bit of my support... too bad everything else is going to hell.

      To both you kiltedand and Saladin in the next comment all I'd like to do is plead with you (as I do with every partisan) to give up support of every candidate... of every party and try and see issue to issue the complexities of our world, our nation, and it's problems.

      I can't pretend to understand it all, but it does make petty bickering and name-calling seem worse than grotesque.

    • 2 years ago
  • jh64487
    • 0
      jh64487  

    • that would be socialism not fascism, and it's still not socialism.

      honestly, do you still not know what fascism is after all this time akamial?

    • 2 years ago
  • montesooma
    • 0
      montesooma  
    • jh64487:

      actually we are taking on both fascism and socialism --
      Socialism is the govnment run health care that is coming to a poor doctor near you.
      Socialism is the leveling of the achievement field and taking from those who have made it and giving to those who have not - this is being instituted in so many different ways it is hard to keep up with --translation
      Life, Liberty and Pursuit of happiness are just old bumper stickers.

    • 2 years ago
  • petervan
    • 0
      petervan  
    • jh64487:

      Socialism and Fascism are and have always been just two sides of the same centralized planning coin.

      Under socialism both ownership AND control of the means of production are relinquished to the state (the abolition of private property).

      Under Fascism, at least as it was practiced by Mussolini and Hitler, control of productive means is given to the state while a sham of ownership is left in private hands.

      If the distinction seems subtle and irrelevant... IT IS! Fascism was a political invention to make socialism more palatable to wealthier Western Europeans. It found a home in nations where asking the citizens to give up property was.. asking too much.

      Fascism is a slogan (a very very evil one): "All the benefits of a centrally planned economy, AND you can keep the title to your property!"

      Trouble is... ownership means nothing without control. Volkswagen remained "Private" but you can bet they had no choice whether or not to machines for the Nazi war effort.

      In this light, Obama's political line from the article: "(He said the government would refrain from playing a management role in all but the most critical areas.)" sounds nice... but can we trust it?

      And furthermore... if we cannot trust it, how would our government's relationship to GM be any different than Mussolini's to Alfa Romeo or Hitler's to Volkswagon?

      You can say that Obama isn't the monster that either of those men were (and, of course, I'd agree, he isn't) but... the amount of power he wields (in this regard) is shockingly close.

    • 2 years ago
  • montesooma
    • 0
      montesooma  

    • reluctant my ass, this is the plan.
      To take car companies and force them to make little green cars that nobody wants.
      This will fail, and will get very ugly.

    • 2 years ago
  • Kylsport
    • 0
      Kylsport  

    • Good luck with the turn-around for GM (government motors) Mr. O. I hope Obama can convince people to buy the obamobiles, even though gas prices rise, I won't be buying any of those go-carts.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ihatethemall
  • Scarabus
    • 0
      Scarabus  

    • Come on, guys! I know "Nazi" means "National Socialist," but Hitler worked hand-in-hand with private companies like Krupp. He didn't insist on public ownership of the means of production. You can't have it both ways, Nazi and the Nazi's bitter enemy, socialism.

      You don't like Obama, which is cool. But, assuming you're genuinely interested in matters of policy and governance rather than just having fun, you ought to try for consistency.

      For example, in your comment, ihatethemall, whom exactly are you referring to when adopting the pronoun "you"?

      This GM agreement was worked out by workers, management, private investors, and federal negotiators. Everyone agreed to make sacrifices to promote the mutual good. Who are "they" and who are "we" in such agreement among labor, management, investors, and the American public as represented by those they elected?

      BTW, ironically, I left my glasses at home and had trouble determining whether it was "mall" or "mail" that you hate. Regardless, if the U.S. health care system worked as well as the U.S. Postal Service (a private/public hybrid), then every citizen of our nation, regardless of wealth or anything else, would be receiving safe, dependable care at the same reasonable price.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ihatethemall
    • 0
      Ihatethemall  
    • Scarabus:

      I don't really like when the wife drags me to the MALL but I wouldn't go as far as to say I hate it.

      I think the post office does an O.K. job. I certainly don't hate the MAIL

      I do however despise all politicians, regardless of what party they belong to, so I guess when it comes to politicians I would go as far as to say...I HATE THEM ALL

    • 2 years ago
  • Ihatethemall
    • 0
      Ihatethemall  
    • Scarabus:

      And as far as the medical issues: The GOV already has control of medicare and medicaid and it is full of corruption and waste. If that's any indicator of how they will run the entire nations health care system we are all screwed.

    • 2 years ago
  • petervan
    • 0
      petervan  
    • Scarabus:

      Socialism and Fascism are and have always been just two sides of the same centralized planning coin.

      Under socialism both ownership AND control of the means of production are relinquished to the state (the abolition of private property).

      Under Fascism, at least as it was practiced by Mussolini and Hitler, control of productive means is given to the state while a sham of ownership is left in private hands.

      If the distinction seems subtle and irrelevant... IT IS! Fascism was a political invention to make socialism more palatable to wealthier Western Europeans. It found a home in nations where asking the citizens to give up property was.. asking too much.

      Fascism is a slogan (a very very evil one): "All the benefits of a centrally planned economy, AND you can keep the title to your property!"

      Trouble is... ownership means nothing without control. Volkswagen remained "Private" but you can bet they had no choice whether or not to machines for the Nazi war effort.

      In this light, Obama's political line from the article: "(He said the government would refrain from playing a management role in all but the most critical areas.)" sounds nice... but can we trust it?

      And furthermore... if we cannot trust it, how would our government's relationship to GM be any different than Mussolini's to Alfa Romeo or Hitler's to Volkswagon?

      You can say that Obama isn't the monster that either of those men were (and, of course, I'd agree, he isn't) but... the amount of power he wields (in this regard) is shockingly close.

    • 2 years ago
  • librelover
  • 2helenahandbasket
  • Ihatethemall
  • unimatrix0
  • Ihatethemall
  • titvol
  • Abraham99
    • 0
      Abraham99  

    • Obama can do whatever he feels like because NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES, his leftist robots will all say, "He just started. You can't blame him for anything." Of course, even if Obama is reelected and stays a total of eight years, they will still say that nothing is his fault.
      We no longer live in a capitalists country. Obama has indirectly nationalized the banks by throwing large amounts of money at them. So, the U.S. government now owns a part of every single bank in this country.
      By bailing out GM and Ford and Chrysler, the U.S. now owns parts of the auto companies. By throwing large amounts of money at many U.S. companies like AIG, the U.S. government now owns parts of those companies too.
      The Chinese government owns large partsof the U.S. Treasury Department because they bought almost a trillion dollars worth of bonds.
      Guess what my friends??
      Everything I just wrote, happened in the last four months (of course, Bush made him do it! yeah, right).
      Mr. Obama also has a special solution for politics. Smile and talk to Iran and North Korea even while they threaten the U.S.A. and our allies.
      Does anyone see?
      Mr. Obama has a special problem solver for all problems. He has a one-size-fits-all solution....
      If there is a problem, throw money at it and it will disappear.

    • 2 years ago
  • akamaial
  • 2helenahandbasket
  • Ihatethemall
    • 0
      Ihatethemall  

    • I doubt the obama socialists were "reluctant" in getting their grubby hands on a business this size. This is the beginning of the socialist government of obama.

      Wake up you fools. Soon your government will be seeling you cars, telling you when or what medical procedures will be allowed and controlling every aspect of your pathetic miserable lives.

    • 2 years ago
  • akamaial
    • 0
      akamaial [removed]  

    • ~Back in December, in an economy far, far away, then-CEO Rick Wagoner tossed out the scary cost to taxpayers of $100 billion if General Motors wasn't saved by the government. Well, GM was saved in December and again in March, and as early as today the feds will rescue it a third time in a prepackaged bankruptcy that is already costing at least $50 billion, and that's for starters. Welcome to OBAMA MOTORS, and what is likely to be a long, expensive and unhappy exercise in political car making.
      ~Taxpayers have so far put up nearly $20 billion, which was supposed to be a loan at market rates but under Treasury's forced restructuring will mostly be converted into equity in the new GM. The feds are also putting up $30.1 billion in "debtor in possession" financing and will effectively nationalize the once-mighty auto maker by taking roughly 60% ownership. (That's not counting $12.5 billion to save GMAC, the company's financing arm.) The Canadian government will go along for the ride for 12% of the new GM, the UAW will get about 17.5%, and the hapless bond holders have to settle for 10%.
      ~The Obama Treasury is portraying this as the best solution to the mess it inherited, leaving GM with much-reduced legacy costs for health care, a cleaned-up balance sheet, a humbler UAW that has forgone some performance pay, and a more efficient dealer network and product line. GM, we are told, will now be able to make a profit and some day even return money to taxpayers. If you close your eyes and imagine that GM's private managers would be able to make decisions based solely on business judgment, you can even start to believe.

      ~But then you snap out of it.....

      http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124381255295170405.html

    • 2 years ago
  • titvol
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