Community | June 05, 2009 | 43 comments

Obama Tours Buchenwald Concentration Camp

source: http://www.wcbs880.com/Obama-Tours-Buchenwald-Concentration-Camp/4542470

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President Barack Obama toured a World War II concentration camp Friday after prodding the international community to redouble efforts toward separate Israeli and Palestinian states in hopes of resolving a conflict fueled by the Jewish nation's post-Holocaust creation.
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43 comments // Obama Tours Buchenwald Concentration Camp

  • igordy
    • 0
      igordy [removed]  

    • Urban, you have some neutral logic to your thinking - and that's good, because unlike other posters here, you don't exhibit any signs of outright hate. So possibly, you will be responsive to an application of reason and more logic. I won't bore you with the details of the birth of Israel, of her struggle to survive from day-1 of her existence, of the violent nature of the region, of her open door policy for any person of Jewish faith - as well as other faiths. Of her bright and intellectual minds, contributing to all areas of science, medicine, arts, etc. Of her willingness to help victims of earthquakes and other natural disasters around the world (being trained to deal with extreme situations), of her constant struggle to exist in face of threats and hate. Of her preservation of history, freedom of religion, democratically elected government, opnenness and tolerance for all - religions, sexes, races, sexual preferences, etc. Of the smiles of her children, of the basic nature of judaic upbringing - values such as family, children, care of the elderly, education - all positive human and humane principles.
      But there is a dark spot - a constant threat of hate, attacks on innocents, bombings of temples, coffee shops, discotheques, busses, etc. Secondary explosions targeted at emergency crews, etc. Calls to extermination, kidnapping of soldiers, teaching of children to hate from birth, paying families of murderers for the "noble deeds" of their misguided fanatical children. Using civilians as live shields, exposing the collateral damage in multiple filming takes, creating a world-wide hate campaign with falsified footage, etc, etc, etc.
      It's hard for Israel to have a measured and adequate response every time. A government is responsible to protect its citizens - and time and time again, Israel shows restraint, when her children fall victim to senseless violence. Once in a while, she has to sprain into action and fight back - and that's when Pallywood comes in with full force and painst a picture of genocide, of deliberate targeting of civillians, of children's blood spilled, etc. But we must know the truth.
      The truth is that IDF has strict rules of engagement. The principle of engaging only when fired upon takes away lives of its soldiers - but it exists to protect the civillians. But they are placed in danger by their own kind, with Hamas setting firing positions in mosques, schools, UN offices, etc. You can't not return fire when fired upon - else you will be killed. And so the innocents die - which helps Hamas propagate the hate and violence, and gives Pallywood its much necessary footage. So you see, they need the civilian blood, it's quite effective for them.
      Urban - unfortunately one MUST pick sides, because by remaining on the sidelines, you invariably contribute to the acceptance of the situation.
      Israel is loosing the propaganda war. They wisely do not allow press in the areas of conflict - you can't protect these people in a firefight. Palestinians, on the other hand, film and doctor their own version of events, sell the footage to Al Jazeera and Al Arabbia - who in turn sell it to the left-wing media all over the world. So this world gets to see the "torture" committed by the IDF against the poor Palestinian civilians.
      Ask yourself this question - if Israel was truly targeting the palestinian civilians - how long would it take them to level Gaza? An educated estimate is under 2 hours. Fact is, they show immense restraint - but war is not an exact science - and innocents will die. But if Arabs wouldn't attack - there'd be no need for Israeli troops in Gaza or elsewhere - so it is brough on by the palestinians themselves.

    • 2 years ago
  • jiminycricket
  • UrbanGypsy
    • 0
      UrbanGypsy  
    • jiminycricket:

      I am pretty neutral on this, but in IR circles it is always repeated that there is no such thing as a country's right to exist.

      What does that mean? If you ever told that to Niccolo Machiavelli (a Realist) he would laugh.

      There is no such thing as a country that has an inherent right to exist. They exist solely as long as they can perpetuate their own existence. This is not to say that I am against Israel.

      I just thought it was important to point out that its actually a fallacy to think that a country has a right to exist, especially if you subscribe to the Realist school of IR...

    • 2 years ago
  • UrbanGypsy
    • 0
      UrbanGypsy  
    • jiminycricket:

      I do not downplay the delegimitisation of Israel by Muslims. I think it would be wrong to suddenly expel all the Jews.

      But back to what I was discussing.

      Any country can claim right to exist. The Confederate States of America claimed its right to exist, and so did the Mormons and their state of Deseret in Utah, but they were unable to perpetuate it.

      "Or more than likely you tacitly approve of that"

      Don't pigeonhole me into a group. I never said anything abut that, that is just your assumption.

      What is the criteria for a country's "right to exist"? I made my argument, now make yours.

    • 2 years ago
  • UrbanGypsy
    • 0
      UrbanGypsy  
    • jiminycricket:

      Well, I'll certainly look up on those and read some reviews. But I know a bit about Jewish history myself.

      I am an International Relations Major specializing in the Middle East. Info on Israel has been pouded into my psyche hehe...

      Thanks for the links.

      I wanted to add, highroller mentioned in one fo the posts above in a response about the size of the Jewish population in Palestine during the British Mandate. He is right about that, the Jewish population was tiny compared to the Palestinian one.

      Just don't get caught up in provocative descriptions of the Jews as thieves and murderers. Did they take the land? In many cases yes, in others, they bought it.

      Are they murderers and thieves for taking the lands that they did? I would not call them that, just as I would not call the American settlers that went West and took land from the Indians that either.

      But they did take it in many cases and that is also documented. The problem lies in the fact that there were also cases where Arabs where told to leave by other Arabs themselves.

      Both sides have their elements of truth, but each one refuses to recognize each little bit of what happened.

    • 2 years ago
  • igordy
  • UrbanGypsy
  • igordy
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      igordy [removed]  
    • igordy:

      Not you, Urban. Highroller - who are you? How did you come to hate the jews so much? when have they drank the blood of your children (if you've got any)? When did you accept islam? How is it going for you? Or are you a skinhead, nazi, KKK - which one? "Cause you always jump on the hate-the-israel-kill-the-jew bandwagon with your repeated, fabricated multiple posts - spamming the entire topic. Tell us - what are you?

    • 2 years ago
  • current89
    • 0
      current89  

    • I find it sick that the anti-Zionists (ok we all know it's more than that) and the crazy conservatives are making this thread into a political battle. Honor the dead and STFU.

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
  • Highr0ller
  • UrbanGypsy
  • Highr0ller
    • 0
      Highr0ller [removed]  
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    • January 25, 2007: Pappe, an Israeli historian and a senior lecturer at Haifa University, has written a superb account of the Israeli expulsion of the Palestinians from their land in 1948. He quotes David Ben Gurion, leader of the Zionist movement from the mid-1920 until the 1960s, who wrote in his diary in 1938, ?I am for compulsory transfer I do not see anything immoral in it.? This contradicts the Zionists? public claim that they were seizing a land without a people. Pappe writes of the Israelis? March 1948 plan for evicting the Palestinians, ?The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be employed to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centres setting fire to homes, properties and goods expulsion demolition and, finally, planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled inhabitants from returning.? Between 30 March and 15 May 1948, i.e. before any Arab government intervened, Israeli forces seized 200 villages and expelled 250,000 Palestinians. The Israeli leadership stated, ?The principal objective of the operation is the destruction of Arab villages ? the eviction of the villagers.? On 9 April, Israeli forces massacred 93 people, including 30 babies, at Deir Yassin. In Haifa, the Israeli commander ordered, ?Kill any Arab you encounter.? This all happened under British rule in Palestine, where Britain had 75,000 troops: Britain?s Mandate did not end until 14 May. The Labour government connived at the Israeli onslaught, although the British state was legally obliged as the occupier (and also by UN resolution 181) to uphold law and order. Yet the Labour government announced that it would no longer be responsible for law and order and it withdrew all the British policemen. It also forbade the presence of any UN bodies, again breaching the terms of the UN resolution. The government ordered British forces to disarm the few Palestinians who had weapons, promising to protect them from Israeli attacks, then immediately reneged on this promise. On 24 May 1948, Ben Gurion wrote, ?We will establish a Christian state in Lebanon, the southern border of which will be the Litani River. We will break Transjordan, bomb Amman and destroy its army, and then Syria falls, and if Egypt will still continue to fight ? we will bombard Port Said, Alexandria and Cairo. This will be in revenge for what they (the Egyptians, the Aramis and Assyrians) did to our forefathers during Biblical times.? These ravings of an insane warmonger hardly betrayed any genuine fear of a `second holocaust?. The Palestinians were suffering massive expulsion, not trying to destroy the Jewish community. Pappe summarises, ?When it created its nation-state, the Zionist movement did not wage a war that `tragically but inevitably? led to the expulsion of `parts of? the indigenous population, but the other way round: the main goal was the ethnic cleansing of all of Palestine, which the movement coveted for its new state. A few weeks after the ethnic cleansing operations began, the neighbouring Arab states sent a small army ? small in comparison to their overall military might ? to try, in vain, to prevent the ethnic cleansing. The war with the regular Arab armies did not bring the ethnic cleansing operations to a halt until their successful completion in the autumn of 1948.? Overall, the Zionist forces uprooted more than half Palestine?s p

    • 2 years ago
  • Highr0ller
    • 0
      Highr0ller [removed]  
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    • Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
      by Ilan Pappe

      ISBN: 1851685553
      ISBN-13: 9781851685554
      Format: Paperback, 320pp
      Publisher: National Book Network
      Pub. Date: September 2007

      Synopsis
      In this controversial new book, a prominent Israeli historian at Haifa University revisits the formative period of the State of Israel. Decisively debunking the myth that the Palestinian population left of their own accord during the War of Independence, he offers archival evidence to demonstrate that a central plank in Israel's founding ideology was the forcible removal of the indigenous population. This book is a passionate plea to acknowledge the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 as the root cause of the ongoing Palestine-Israel conflict.
      Publishers Weekly
      In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity, beginning in the 1948 war for independence and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units organized by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948 and 1949, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and U.N. definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important insights into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation. Without question, Pappe's account will provoke ire from many readers; importantly, it will spark discussion as well. (Jan.)

    • 2 years ago
  • dreamsenvoy
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  

    • That's some top notch revision of history there Jiminycricket.

      You forgot to add the bombing of the King David Hotel and all the other terror acts by the Stern Gang and the Irgun that were used to drive away the British.

    • 2 years ago
  • jiminycricket
  • FallenMorgan
  • unclecharlie
    • unclecharlie  
    • This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
  • Ihatethemall
    • 0
      Ihatethemall  
    • unclecharlie:

      WOW that's pretty ballsy. I mean, I don't have a problem with you saying it, we do have freedom of speech but I am sure that there are some that will. You may even get a knock at your door, and that's if they are kind enough to knock. Good Luck.

    • 2 years ago
  • UrbanGypsy
    • 0
      UrbanGypsy  
    • unclecharlie:

      That is how Republicans respond when they lose elections, they turn to violence. Thank You for coming out of the closet and letting everyone know what you really think.

      There's a name for people like you: Sore losers. Obama was elected by the majority of Americans. Deal with it, just like we had to put up with Bush (Who as far as I can remember lost the popular vote in 2000).

      And let me guess, you are also a Christian... how typical.

      The only thing missing from your stupid statement was to have called Obama a "nigger." You would have achieved idiotic perfection if you just threw that word somewhere in there.

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
  • igordy
    • 0
      igordy [removed]  
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    • "palestine handed to the hebrews" - hahaha - couldn't have found a more ignorant statement! There was no palestine - no country, no government. Jews and Arabs have lived there for a loooooong time, way before the Brits ever came. Judaism - the oldest of the three predominant religions, had come from there - as well as Christianity. Koran, funny enough, doesn't even mention Jerusalem - so that claim is largely BS. Now onto Hussein tour - lies and posturing to avoid loosing the dwindeling support from the American Jews - that's what that was. Why don't he tell Britain, who under the pressure from the overrunning muslims have yanked Holocaust from its public schools, so not to insult the muslims - that he doesn't approve of anyone who denies history.
      As to palestinian genocide - you people really don't know what the fuck you are talking about - unless you're an Arab with an Israeli-hating agenda. Genocide is a systematic extermination of people - pre-planned, cold-blooded, etc. What muslims are doing in Sudan is genocide. In Israel, arabs work, attend schools, are treated in hospitals (even enemy combattants), participate in politics (yes - there are Arab members in Knesset), publish press and literature, etc, etc, etc. Druise (an Arab branch of non-fundamentalist moslems) even serve in the Israeli Army!!! Like I said before - Pallywood (palestinian film doctoring and propaganda machine) is churning out some ugly lies about Israel's treatment of palestinians - but only one truth exists - take it to heart - as it is 100% fact: If the Arabs would put down their weapons - there would be peace in the middle east - if the Israel puts down her weapons - there will be no more Israel!!!
      In conclusion - if the last statement is just fine by you - then you are either a muslim extremist and should be put down or an avid antisemite - in which case - your miserable failure of a life is already ugly and filled with bile and shit.
      If on the other hand, you are an open-minded, partiotic American, like I am - these statements are adequate to describe the real state of affairs in the region - FACT!

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
  • Highr0ller
    • 0
      Highr0ller [removed]  
    • igordy:

      You tell Lies my friend.......only 10% of the population was Jewish in Palestine after the Jews were illegally placed there by the British Empire. They quickly set about ethnically cleansing the place of the Palestinian population, and they have invited Jews from all around the world to populate the place......spend $3Billion annually of American taxpayers money making wars and stealing land to settle (build settlements). A bunch of murderers and thiefs.

      Your lies are typical.

      You guys been running the mainstream media tooooo long.

      Things are changing. We are digging out the truth now. We see past the lies .....

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  

    • This really isn't about Obama and yes, you are correct Obama is just playing the role. This is about a VERY small group of VERY powerful, influential people holding the world hostage with the 60 + year old guilt of the Holocaust.

    • 2 years ago
  • jiminycricket
  • FallenMorgan
  • Ihatethemall
  • igordy
    • 0
      igordy [removed]  
    • jiminycricket:

      Fallen - yes they are. If you are told from early years of your miserable life that Jews are to blame for all your problems - then you grow up believing it. That's what they do in the Arab world. That's what they did in USSR - where I grew up. So I know all about institutional anti-semitism, buddy. Moslems feel more kinship with the moslems - than with the Jews - and thus the hate propagates. So your basic assumption is wrong - you're either an idealist, who would like to see only the good in people - in which case you're young and naive - and life will teach you otherwise - or you're dumb - but I don't want to insult anyone here - my apologies...

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  

    • Obama's denial of the Palestinian genocide is just as bad, if not worse than Ahmadinejad's Holocaust™ denial.

      It's also worth noting that Eli Weisel is credited with popularizing the term "holocaust" to denote Jewish suffering and some Jewish leaders want the term "Holocaust" to denote Jewish suffering only.

      It would be better for the world if we focus on current "holocausts" instead of revisiting this holocaust several times every year.

    • 2 years ago
  • RickDemocracy
    • 0
      RickDemocracy  
    • maasanova:

      racist filth??
      How?

      Fact is the massacre of Jews by Hitler is the only fact anyone remembers about the second world war. That, and maybe Pearl Harbor if you're asking an American.
      Other fact is that 2 to 3 million Jews died, not 6, as was built around the Russian lie of 4 million for one single camp (the Russians liberated Auschwitz & claimed 4 million had died there -- when the registers that they had claimed were destroyed by the Nazis reappeared in Russian hands in 1989 after the collapse of the USSR, the official figures dropped from 4 million to 1.1 million, thereby reducing by half the global figure on 1 camp alone!).

      Anyway, point is 2 to 3 million Jews died out of a total of 50 to 70 million worldwide. The Jewish holocaust was 5% of the war in terms of deaths. Yet it is 100% of WWII in the minds of virtually all the western world. Based on a lie and propaganda.
      Now why the hell don't we hear about the 10 to 20 million Chinese who died? Idem for the 10 to 20 million Russians ? And so on. Many other nations lost as much or more than there were Jews killed.
      And Palestine was totally unfairly and arbitrarily GIVEN THE F*CK AWAY to the Hebrews by......GREAT BRITAIN in 1917 (the Darfour Declaration). This was later given some vaguely legal perspective when adopted by the League of Nations and then later the UN.
      But what it was is a favour by the Bristish Establishment to, namely, the 'Zionist Federation' (again, this is a quote of Mr Balfour's writings in the Darfour Declaration of 1917 and plain historical fact).
      No surprise, then, that there are people slightly pissed off with the zionists, eh? Imagine Queen Elizabeth 2 giving away the USA or Canada to a foreign population and then the world letting that population transform that country into an open sky prison camp, all Americans or Canadians becoming prisoners in a military prison camp? Would you like that? Many people would die, with the new foreign dictatorship constantly evicting Americans/Canadians from their land & killing with God on their side. After all, that book forced upon the world by a Roman Emperor 1700 years ago does say that they are entitled to your land by God himself. Damn, i should write a book like that about my holy rights...

      Go & live in Palestine for a while & when you come back, if you ever do, tell us who is racist.

      Meanwhile, here is a link to help you get the jist...
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUa6OyaxOjUvvv

      Yes, Israel IS behaving in a VERY racist and fascist manner, and they have been getting away with it for 60 years. And you're not even allowed to criticise them...!

    • 2 years ago
  • RickDemocracy
    • 0
      RickDemocracy  
    • maasanova:

      "Why don't you just clear off to a neo-Nazi site where you belong? You have no place here"

      How dare you? Who do you think you are?

      Use counter arguments if you have what it takes and keep your filthy innuendos & accusations to yourself.

      I have friends of virtually all origins and religions. If my place is on a neo-Nazi site, where is yours? All you can say is 'Jew hater' etc like the conformist robot or troll that you seem to be.

    • 2 years ago
  • WorldPeaceTV
    • 0
      WorldPeaceTV  
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    • I think this is a good thing that Obama is doing. He is showing by going there to one of the most horrific sites on the planet that he cares for ALL people and that there is a fair way to settle arguments that lead to violence and war....so....

      The illegal settlements have to stop-thats Obamas words. Obama shows respect to all people, and knows that there are two sides to a story...the Israeli side and the Palestinians side. Both sides need to make steps towards peace. There is a petition out that will help expedite Congress to make laws that will make Israel stop the illegal settlements. Please read the current post and if you want, please sign the petition to help Obama. Again, the link is:
      http://current.com/items/90160419_israel-stop-the-settlements-now-help-obama-mak...
      thanks

    • 2 years ago
  • Prijedor
  • Ares
    • 0
      Ares  

    • Is this some kind of requirement that must be met while one is president? Touring concentration camps? What difference will it make in his policy if he walks around there? It's not a nature walk, we know it happened. Move the fawk on.

    • 2 years ago
  • RickDemocracy
    • 0
      RickDemocracy  

    • It's important in this issue, i think to remember, or learn that Palestine was arbitrarily handed over to the 'Hebrews' by the British Royal family, pretty much.

      "The Balfour Declaration --
      Thanks in part to the efforts of the Russian-born British chemist Chaim Weizmann, later to become Israel’s first president, England promulgated the Balfour Declaration in 1917. (The letter was transmitted from Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour to the British nobleman, Lord Lionel Rothschild.) After they defeated the Ottoman Turks and captured Palestine in 1918, the British began to fulfill the promise to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The League of Nations ratified this promise in 1922 by giving Britain mandatory power over Palestine with the understanding that it would eventually become a Jewish homeland."

      The link between Queen Elizabeth 2, her family, and the Rothschilds and the descendants of the Hebrews are many. Well, the Rothschilds are the most powerful family in the world, with 50% of the world's wealth (?), historical control of the Bank of England, and idem for the US Federal Reserve.

      These guys control the British & American currencies. And they set up Israel. Arbitrarily, with no right to do so. They just stole the land by force and gave it away to others.

      Obama was elected with Rothschild money. They didn't pay him to mess up their efforts & achievements.

      This war, as all the others, serve a final purpose: to convince everyone we need a world government with a world army. Once that is in place no war will be possible. The war instead will be openly against dissent and the people. It already is, but not quite so obviously.
      The European Union, The North American Union that is on its way (collapse of the dollar will justify the creation of the Amero, for Canada+USA+Mexico), the UN, and further international unions will eventually all merge into a unique govt, that is the aim.

    • 2 years ago
  • RickDemocracy
    • 0
      RickDemocracy  
    • RickDemocracy:

      Explain how that is racist.

      The Balfour Declaration is plain historical fact.
      The ties between QE2 and the Rothschilds are plain fact for anyone to look up.
      And so on.

      It's so damn easy to call someone racist or anti-Semitic to 'get them outta here'...conveniently without examining the claims and without asking any questions or offering any counter-argumentation.
      Your 'racist' label is a red nose applied to the orator to discredit him/her without examining what he/she is saying. Same as other labels we have been accustomed to. Their are merely a convenience for denial in so many cases.

      I'm no more racist than you and if you knew anything about me you wouldn't even come near saying such unfounded nonsense.

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
  • fun_size
    • 0
      fun_size  
    • RickDemocracy:

      The Balfour declaration is real yes but im not so sure about the whole Rothschild thing. Obama made almost all his campaign money from the citizens rather than just lump sums from corporations or as you said the Rothschild family. Also, im still not entirely sure why everyone is so terrified of a single unified government. So long as they respect the rights of the people there is no real downside to a single worldwide government.

    • 2 years ago
  • RickDemocracy
    • 0
      RickDemocracy  
    • RickDemocracy:

      Check who financed Obama, Clinton, McCain, etc.
      The same big banks. The ones behind the Fed. And the Rothschilds etc are the ones who own these banks.
      They finance all candidates with the slightest chance of winning, and no one wins without their support. Check it out for yourself.

      The link between the Balfour Declaration & the Rothschilds is not even to be discussed, the Balfour Declaration was written by Sir Balfour to Sir Rothschild. That IS the Balfour Declaration. And it basically aimed to please, as it concludes itself, the Zionist Federation. That is all black on white History.

      Makes you wonder why the same families & banks financed Hitler's raise to power & rearmament through IG Farben...eh?
      Combine that with Albert Einstein's many quotes that anti-Semitism is actually good for Jewish subsistance, and the fact that the direct result of Rothschild & co's financing was an anti-Semite dictator & war that lead to the creation of Israel....and you have one serious string of questions all of a sudden.

      If you think one govt and one nation is a good thing and believe that so much concentrated power is not a problem then you need to see how the power is already being used. It's very very naive to think that ppl in power care about those who are not...when you have History to prove otherwise every single day of the year since the beginning of time.
      If you are American then you need to know that in your country anyone can be sent to prison and tortured, legally, without trial or even an accusation. Did you know that? Well, that's a dictatorship, sorry to tell you. Your kids, should you have any, can legally be tortured, because the US is one of the only countries that does not ban torture on children. Until the Bush govt came up with all his terrorist Acts against his own people torture on adults was illegal but not on children. Even third world countries have laws forbidding torture on children, even dictatorships do, but the American dictatorship, no.
      Nothing is needed to torture kids in the US, you even have private schools where parents sent their kids to get tortured to 'change' them. Usually 'good thinking' parents with very strong 'morals' and religious beliefs, by the way. They know the way, surely.

      Anyway, point is...you already are in a dictatorship when torture is legal and incarceration for life requires no trial or accusation or conviction. That's what you got out of 9/11.

      If you want other examples of govt abuse, look up 'Operation Northwoods', or 'Gladio'. Or you can just watch 'Terrorstorm'.

      Govts do not care for people, they spend their whole lives climbing up the steps of power, and they get there only when and if the ones above them get something out of it.
      Who, then, are above govts? Quite easy, really, when you look into it...do you want to? Cos the info is out there, and if you don't want to believe what is there to find, then just think for a minute. Who decides what an employee does? The employee or his employer? Who pays for the electoral campaigns? Who finances the govt? Who controls the currency controls the country. Even dictators like Lenine admitted that. Clinton too has said a few things about being a muppet himself...

      Here you will find various documentaries that might just open your eyes:
      http://www.kokomotion.com/TWH/docs/war.html

    • 2 years ago
  • jh64487
    • 0
      jh64487  

    • hmm, he's clearly just trying to get a first hand look at how these camps were set up so that he can better the FEMA camps! (sarcasm)

    • 2 years ago
  • Varex_Sythe
    • 0
      Varex_Sythe  

    • I think it possible, but I'm not sure how likely it is, that he might be biting of a little more than he can chew. However, it is an excellent goal and I think that in order to achieve a peace there is it going to be necessary to understand the history of how it happened. Not just the things you can read in the history books, but you much visit where it happened to help gain appreciation and a true feeling of how real this was.

    • 2 years ago
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