Israel An Apartheid State

Again, this is old history. Everyone knows the "story" as it is told but that does not make what is happening today right.

There is no civilization in any record found (or made up) that can not point to a time when they did and said things that were not for the good of all peoples in their cities and towns and I am sure that even Jews have things in their history that they would rather not discuss. This is the 21st century and we need 21st thinking.

Hebrews are not the most oppressed peole on earth there have been oppressed peoples everywhere there have been civilizations built.

Please refrain from personal attacks, this is a discussion and we all have our point of view that deserves to be heard.

I will not attack you but I feel by your heated response that you are ready and willing to attack or defame anyone that has a different opinion. This is why we get nothing on this problem because this ancient battle of words between brothers keeps being repopulated.

When a child I thought as a child, when I began a "man" (or woman) I must think as a "man". Grow up, hate begats hate my friend. Or as the ancients say "what goes around comes around."

Thanks Highroller!

Forgive me, but what CLEAR 08 said in response to jimmycricket is so GREAT that I have to repost it (it is collapsed) and especially strong is the second sentence:
I don't think people hate Jews they hate what is being done in the name of Jews

And they have been doing it a looooong time.

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Remember the old proverb, "don't hate the man, hate what the man does?" I don't think people hate Jews they hate what is being done in the name of Jews.

I get tired of this argument that if anyone speaks against Israeli policies it is anti semetic. Not so. Everyone deserves a home of safety and security, everyone. No one is more special than another when it comes to basic rights of humanity and justice or for access to the love and protection of "God", if you believe in such.

No one condones bombers or war machines both are wrong yet, it shows how both have become interdependent/symbiotic as the cause and there must be an open discussion about how to end the suffering on both sides. One people can not control the discussion with idle charges of racism leveled on the discussion based on historic or religious events in the distant past.

Something has to be done because hate will continue to grow into the future with the situation as it stands today. People around the world know there is a better way of life, we are no longer in the "dark ages", people know when they are being subjected to abusive acts and policies, it can not be hidden.

Let's get busy and help all these people move to peace.

So you had to read my post before it was posted? I guess this is not an open forum after all.

Peace.

What is to be done with Palreal?

such a pitiful world we live in . Highroller the pic of the man carrying the child is just heart breaking, But the world needs to see the truth. Thank you

I've gone home with Palestinians on buses with Israeli soldiers walking onto the buses to check passports. Guess what? Ain't a whole lot of difference between them and our Military. Can you disagree with the war in Iraq and still respect our men and women over there? That's one thing the Democrats and Republicans can agree on. Both militaries are trying to be an example of democracy is areas that cherish death more than life. Don't judge a situation that is impossible to apply logic and reason too. You just have to make a choice based on the most facts and historical evidence. If your next door neighbor has 10 kids and 9 of them want you dead, when the one comes to your door and wants in, what are you going to do? You don't know what one doesn't want to blow you up. So what's it going to be? Your family or are you going to want that one kid off your property? Or would you risk your family b/c you don't want to prevent the kid from moving around wherever they feel like moving around and you certainly don't want to hurt their feelings?

The Palestinians have to go through checkpoints b/c they blow up innocent people otherwise. Until that stops and is no longer "the norm", this is how it has to be.

2nd time I posted this today. I have done what I can to post articles on here that give correct information but I can't help it that no one reads it.

Muslim to American Humanitarian:

"My Holy Book says this is MY land because I want to make it MINE! I can force all the people on this land to worship my God! Allah says I can! I don't have to explain (b/c I can't)! And if you don't let me make this land mine I'm going to keep screaming! For thousands of years! I will just keep screaming and blowing you up until I get MY way! I am a righteous child of God! You ARE the devil! I teach my children this too! Almighty Allah says I can go ahead and kill you along with myself, since YOU ARE in ALLAH'S way! THIS IS NOT WAR IT IS HOLINESS!"

American Humanitarian to Muslim:

"Woah. Dude. Take a deep breath. I don't hate you. I did my thesis project on your architecture! Your people are up there with Romans and the Egyptians. I don't have any particular thing to say about God though because I’m a 'spiritual' person, not 'religious'. I meditate and do Yoga two times a week after work. I have a rug like you only it's a foam mat. So, I completely understand you, brother. You should also know that I have a really BIG humanitarian heart and I've done so many great things for the poor people in my neighborhood (and made sure I mentioned it in every college application essay). I'm handing out dollar bills left and right (especially in front of the ladies ;). I dig people just for being people. So, I do know I don't agree with suffering and killing and I don't know anything about myself as much as I know this fact. NO human should suffer! No way. And I make sure the world knows this by holding up these signs at democratic rallies. It makes me feel like I'm doing 'good' in the world when I support the people who appear to be suffering the most. Clearly this is the Palestinians. I know a few Jews. They certainly aren’t suffering. So what if we don’t all agree on religion. I personally don't believe in God so that point is null and void for me when I draw conclusions in regards to my personal politics. You don't have to know history or facts (correct ones anyway) to be political in America. I know you’re a good person deep down inside. I’m not going to buy into what 'Jesus' had to say more than what 'Muhammad' had to say b/c the two are one and the same to me. I doubt Jesus ever meditated or had even heard of yoga. How could he have been that in touch with his spirit? Who would believe a baby was born to a virgin? That is totally based on no scientific evidence what-so-ever; therefore, it’s false to me. He wasn't a scholar either. All he did was say stupid things like 'turn the other cheek and let someone hit you twice'. Why the hell would I do that? He hung out with cripples and prostitutes. Yeah, he was a real winner for sure. Don’t get me wrong, I don't believe in killing. Even when I see other people killing other people, I stay out of it. That’s how against killing I am. But I’m still seriously annoyed with the Jewish people. Why don't they just GIVE-IT-UP. Call it quits. There IS NO Messiah! Idiots! And what is up with those Orthodox weirdoes swaying back and forth at that stupid crumbling wall in that run down ancient city of Jerusalem?! Die Israel! DIE! Geez, man, I'm sorry. I totally have a headache now. Hey, can I buy you a Starbucks and finish up our ever-so-enlightening conversation over a cup of coffee? Then I can take a few pictures of us together, and upload it to my friendster page. I am going to look SO 'humanitarian' it'll be sick! Oh yeah. Current TV is going to put me on the air, baby! Woo hoo! Listen, Mr. Muslim, it comes down to this: Survival of the fittest. If you survive and the Jews don’t, then that was meant-to-be. Just like if I survive and my competition doesn’t, that too, was 'meant-to-be.'”

do you know something, a just wish everyone could get on

When you preach against the Muslim nutcases, murdering across the World, I will comment in support of the moderate Muslims, until then they do not deserve support.

On an early trip to Israel and the West Bank in June, one of my biggest surprises was the frank avowal by Israeli family members and friends that the governance of the West Bank is, in fact, apartheid. Whereas many Jews worldwide shield their eyes and avoid the reality of this oppressive state of affairs — we only want to see ourselves as a deeply moral people whose actions always meet the highest ethical standards — I believe that a sizable minority of Israelis have come to honestly admit and decry the apartheid state of the Occupied Territories.

David Ben-Gurion, probably Israel’s most important founding father, was right. It was the gravest of mistakes to occupy rather than return the Palestinian lands conquered in the Six-Day War of 1967. While he might not have foreseen the excessive measures required to administer the Occupied Territories — the state of apartheid is brutal and dehumanizing for Palestinians and Israelis alike — he would have realized as a tough and wise Zionist leader that occupation would be fully opposed by the local population, consequently decreasing rather than increasing Israel’s security in the long term.

Going against the heady nationalist tides of post-1967, he would have been even more strongly opposed to the full appropriation and settlement of the territories, dispossessing many thousands of Palestinians and defiantly breaking international laws and agreements.

In the final analysis, no society based on apartheid can last very long. The system is too damaging to all, too costly economically, politically and militarily; too loathsome in the eyes of the world. Just as international pressure and condemnation steadily increased on South Africa, Israel will inevitably suffer the same consequences, the angry cries of anti-Semitism by Israeli right-wingers and their supporters notwithstanding. Except for the extreme right, few Israelis really want to see their country become the next South Africa.

President Obama’s empathic, even-handed approach to the conflict, embodied in his recent speech in Cairo, offers realistic hope. The time to begin the breakdown of West Bank apartheid and the building up of a viable two- or one-state solution is now.