Community | August 02, 2009 | 101 comments

'Birthers' must be stopped

source: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-maher31-2009jul31,0,622151.story?vote48...

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Nettle
Never underestimate the ability of a tiny fringe group of losers to ruin everything.

For the last couple of weeks, we've all been laughing heartily at the wacky antics of the "birthers" -- the far-right goofballs who claim Barack Obama wasn't really born in Hawaii and therefore the job of president goes to the runner-up, former Miss California Carrie Prejean.

Also, when Obama was sworn in as president, he forgot to give his answer in the form of a question.

And yet, every week, the chorus of conservatives demanding to see his birth certificate grows. It's like they're the Cambridge police, Obama's in his house -- the White House -- and they need to see some ID.

And there's nothing anyone can do to convince these folks. You could hand them, in person, the original birth certificate and have a video of Obama emerging from the womb with Don Ho singing in the background ... and they still wouldn't believe it.

Which raises the question: Why, in this country, is it always the religious right that won't take anything on faith?

So far, the reaction from Democrats is to laugh this off, and I understand why. If you seriously believe that President Obama is an African sleeper spy, get out of your chat room and have your house tested for lead.

But we live in America, and in America, if you don't immediately kill arrant nonsense, no matter how ridiculous, it can grow and thrive and eventually take over, like crab grass or reality shows about fat people.

This flap might be a deluded right-wing obsession that is a total waste of time, but so was Whitewater, and look where that ended up. A handful of Republican operatives, enraged at Bill Clinton's unprecedented economic growth and budget surpluses, found a woman named Paula Jones, which led to a woman named Monica Lewinsky, which gave me enough material to eventually be able to buy a big house in Bel-Air. Which I'm still conflicted about.

More recently we had the Swift Boat allegations against John Kerry, in which Kerry was accused of volunteering to serve in Vietnam so he could jump in front of a bullet so he could get a medal and then throw it away to satisfy his urge to insult real Americans. This was so stupid that Kerry refused to even discuss it.

And we all know how well that worked out.

And once these stories get out there, they're hard to stamp out because our media do such a lousy job of speaking truth to stupid. Vietnam, Iraq and the Spanish-American War were all sold on lies that were unchallenged or even abetted by the media. Clinton got impeached and Kerry got destroyed in large part because the media didn't have the guts to say, "This is nonsense."

Lou Dobbs has been saying recently that people are asking a lot of questions about the birth certificate. Yes, the same people who want to know where the sun goes at night.

And Lou, you're their new king.

That's why it's so important that we the few, the proud, the reality-based attack this stuff before it has a chance to fester and spread. This isn't a case of Democrats versus Republicans. It's sentient beings versus the lizard people, and it is to them I offer this deal: I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma.

---

Yes, yes, I know that birthers are allowed their opinion, but it's very saddening to think that NOTHING will change their minds. If they see a copy, they say it's a fake. If they were to see the original document they would say it's a forgery.

Seriously. What would change their minds? And if nothing would, why not? Is it just anger and resentment that has nowhere to go due to the inability to kick Obama out of office or is it fear lashing out?

Your thoughts?
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101 comments // 'Birthers' must be stopped

  • randallr01
    • 0
      randallr01  

    • Something else is interesting regarding this whole BIRTHER BS:

      The Constitution says: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

      Say what? The Constitution said that the President must have been born in the US and alive **at the time of the adoption** of the Constitution. We're making a big fuss over nothing. Looks like none of us is eligible to be President.

    • 2 years ago
  • akamaial
  • randallr01
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • randallr01:

      Clinton's statement was a deflection and a rationalization for what came out later.

      Just as the ones that have a problem with eligibility are rationalizing also since they don't apply the same standards to the "alleged" Kenyan birth certificate, John McCain's birth in Panama or the Constitution that they apply to Obama.

      If the difference between " certificate of live birth is NOT a birth certificate' is so important then apply that same standard also to "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

      Why the double standard in accepting proof of where McCain was born? Why wasn't there the same scrutiny applied to his records? Why does he get a pass for being born in Panama? If they don't accept evidence from Obama then why do they accept that McCain was born on a military base?

      The fact that they refuse to accept any other evidence that doesn't fit their agenda just shows that they aren't interested in eligibilty. It's just a distraction from their other motives.

    • 2 years ago
  • akamaial
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • randallr01:

      That's the point is that they don't have any "wisdom from life experiences" since they shut out anything that even remotely resembles wisdom

      They just blindly refuse accept anything and make stuff up as they see fit like where did "Pepperdine U. education" come from when it is not relevant to anything

    • 2 years ago
  • akamaial
  • randallr01
  • randallr01
  • akamaial
    • 0
      akamaial [removed]  
    • randallr01:

      ~ Actually I was not attempting to "belittle" your education....congratulations on graduating from Pepperdine.
      ~ Just expressing a point that a sheepskin is not a substitute for life experiences or common sense (which increasingly is not common anymore)...
      ~ And why is it that in a dialog one must either win or lose?
      ~ What about progress in "communication" (btw, I'm working on that part, even to this day), hmmm?

    • 2 years ago
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • randallr01:

      That is also the point since communication requires both sides from transmitter to reciever to be working properly.

      The "birthers" only want one side since they repeatedly ignore all signals but their own and create only noise not any kind of communication.

      That is what the "SNAFU principle" is all about since "true communication is possible only between equals" because the "birthers" refuse to accept any other signals they form "disinformation systems" that just creates an "echo chamber" of noise that impedes any useful signals getting through.

      Gotta work on it a lot more to achieve the kind of communication that will allow any useful information flow since the way it has been going even statements like "The sky is blue, water is wet and sugar is sweet" can't be accepted by both sides.

    • 2 years ago
  • kennymotown
  • akamaial
  • akamaial
    • 0
      akamaial [removed]  

    • A certificate of live birth is NOT a birth certificate, it is not attested to by anyone. . it simply is a record of a "reported" birth...not the where, when and by who delivered (attending physician)...you know, those small minor details that legitimizes us all...therefore my point still stands, put up or shut up, leftist sheeple!

    • 2 years ago
  • randallr01
    • 0
      randallr01  
    • akamaial:

      hey akamaial:

      The Certificate of Live Birth, which has been provided, is the document necessary to obtain a **U.S. PASSPORT.** (That's right -- a passport. Yet that's not good enough??)

      I think that's proof enough. Not to mention the fact that the newspapers in his home state announced his birth.

      BTW: Hawaii doesn't give out copies of actual Birth Certificates, but it has been photographed.

      try again.

    • 2 years ago
  • akamaial
  • kennymotown
  • akamaial
    • 0
      akamaial [removed]  
    • akamaial:

      A certificate of live birth is NOT a birth certificate, it is not attested to by anyone. . it simply is a record of a "reported" birth...not the where, when and by who delivered (attending physician)...you know, those small minor details that legitimizes us all...therefore my point still stands, put up or shut up, leftist sheeple!

    • 2 years ago
  • hunzedog
  • Toughth
    • 0
      Toughth  

    • If Obamas parents were overseas in the service of the U.S. Government or military the rights and privliges afforded to the child are set as though he was born on U.S. soil. This is the way the regulation has been laid down.

    • 2 years ago
  • yesindeed
  • larrysnotes
  • larrysnotes
  • kennymotown
    • 0
      kennymotown  
    • larrysnotes:

      And this piece of shit has been proven to be just that toilet paper. Kenya wasn't even a republic when he was born phony birth certificate 101 at least have the country right when printing crap I mean toilet paper.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ihatethemall
  • larrysnotes
  • Ihatethemall
  • Ihatethemall
    • 0
      Ihatethemall  

    • @neo
      I get my point across, thats all that matters. I don't need your sympathy, go redistribute it elsewhere. I am sure there is a bleeding heart somewhere you can try to mend, donchaknow

    • 2 years ago
  • neocongo
  • kitteneater
  • kitteneater
  • kitteneater
  • larrysnotes
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • kitteneater:

      The point being that it was easy for everyone to accept the proof from McCain and he didn't have to go through half the kind of scrutiny that Obama did and refused to accept any of the same kind of evidence from Obama

      That is a clear double standard and shows that they have completely different motives.

    • 2 years ago
  • kitteneater
  • Ihatethemall
  • larrysnotes
  • onemalefla
  • akamaial
  • Ihatethemall
    • 0
      Ihatethemall  

    • These birthers are nuts, how dare they question the president. He is supreme lord and leader of this world, yes world not country.

      Anyone here old enough to remeber the term.....QUESTION AUTHORITY!!!!!!

      it still has meaning today.

    • 2 years ago
  • randallr01
    • 0
      randallr01  

    • The whole 'Birthers' thing is ridiculous and highlights that many in the GOP are nothing but whining, sore losers...... Can we please focus on moving forward as a country, please?!

    • 2 years ago
  • Cacaoatl
    • 0
      Cacaoatl  

    • I have the same opinion of these "birthers" that I have of other conspiracy theorists such as moon landing hoaxers, global warming deniers, Holocaust deniers, and UFO chasers. It is impossible to argue with them because any evidence you provide that refutes their position is part of the conspiracy. They'll dig up a million video clips by even more conspiracy kooks to support themselves.

    • 2 years ago
  • HardworkinJudy
  • isnamthere
  • HardworkinJudy
  • Ihatethemall
  • larrysnotes
  • Nettle
  • shanklinmike
    • 0
      shanklinmike  

    • The real question for me has little to do with his birth certificate which has never been seen (only his COLB Certificate of Live Birth and there is a difference). My question has more to do with his citizenship in Indonesia that was needed for him to get into school. At the time, Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship so by definition he is not a natural born citizen. Any clarification on this would be great. Thank you for your time. Peace

    • 2 years ago
  • larrysnotes
  • trut
  • metalcookiesxy70
  • QuietStormX
    • 0
      QuietStormX  

    • I think the only way they will stop is for the elected republicans who follow mindlessly to refute the call. That goes for the radio and TV people also. If only the reporters who hoast these programs inform them they are wrong. I don't want to say it's something else, but the way some seem to think they are true in this day of the internet makes me wonder if it's not? Do they have a problem with color?

    • 2 years ago
  • isnamthere
  • bombastinator
    • 0
      bombastinator  

    • my first thought is to patronize them unmercifully. They're not doing it because they believe it is true. They are doing it becuse they think it causes problems. If it can be shwon that they are doing the Obama administration more good than harm they will have no incentive to continue.

      points that maight be made are:

      A) Since they don't even believe what they are saying the use of birther theory brands them as so prejudiced that nothing they say in the future can be considered to be worth anything without excessive proof.

      B) the reliance on something everyone knows to be as silly as birther theory shows that they believe the administration is doing everything right since they have nothing real to complain about.

      I don;t know if this is actually a good idea or not, merely a thought.

    • 2 years ago
  • isnamthere
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • Metanoia:

      That wouldn't stop them since no other evidence has what makes you think that they would be satisfied even if it was provided?

      For that matter why is it that no other president presidential candidate had that requirement?

      Why wasn't so much scrutiny put on John McCain's birth in Panama? That had just as easy a way to explain it also but they didn't put so much pressure for him to produce his records to prove that.

      Admit it, since it is just a product of hysteria no facts will swerve them since they'll deny it and come up with a different demand.

      Go ahead and prove that Metanoia is not just a software routine that Current developed like the Twitterbot to generate controversy and discussion to make the site more popular.

    • 2 years ago
  • larrysnotes
  • isnamthere
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • Metanoia:

      I dare you to prove that you are not a piece of software like the Twitterbot and I won't let you get anything done until you show that evidence.

      I double dog dare you.

      I even triple dog dare you and you have to prove it beyond the shadow of the tiniest shred of doubt.

      See how distracting that is? It is going to help if you waste time trying to prove it to people that refuse any evidence that you provide?

      Since the point is creating a distraction from serious issues then it won't go away by showing even the most irrefutable evidence and proof.

    • 2 years ago
  • larrysnotes
  • Argon18
  • GodsnLiberals
    • 0
      GodsnLiberals  

    • I am sure that obama is a citizen and is a legitimate president of this country. however, to even entertain the idea of squashing the rights of people to express themselves..no matter how stupid no matter how minute (yes liberals..you guys are known for stupid conspiracy rantings) goes against every grain of what this country stands for.

    • 2 years ago
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • GodsnLiberals:

      Even when it comes to yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater, or even starting a rumor of a bomb threat in the theater?

      By continually distracting the people it does damage to anything getting accomplished the same way a bomb threat would do to showing of the movie.

      Where is the right of free speech then? Does that right surpass the rights of the people that paid to see the show?

      Unfortunately a lot of people forget that there are not just rights, there are responsibilities also. They had the right to bring up the question of birth, but after so much evidence has been shown to disprove it they also have the responsibility to not try and deny it without any cause.

      Continuing to refuse all evidence to the contrary without any evidence to refute it, is abusing the right of free speech and does the same damage that starting rumors of attacks in public places would do.

    • 2 years ago
  • Nettle
    • 0
      Nettle  
    • GodsnLiberals:

      Ok, like I said everyone is allowed their opinion, but what's the point of trying to make Obama look bad? Why won't they accept any proof and what do they get out of it? It's confuzzling.

    • 2 years ago
  • neocongo
    • 0
      neocongo  

    • Very funny article, Nettle, and there is definitely truth to it. This sort of nonsense can snowball into a never ending nightmare and completely distract from Obama getting his agenda accomplished. That's the point of it.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ihatethemall
  • RaceBannon
  • bluestranger
    • 0
      bluestranger  

    • Although highly entertaining, hardly an issue. It is all worth it to see anyone show up G. Gordon, the smug criminal. For all the horror fans, read "Will" Liddy's book. Much scarier than anything Stephen King could ever dream up.

    • 2 years ago
  • bombastinator
    • 0
      bombastinator  

    • They likely know it's crap they just don't care. It will continue as long as it seems to be advancing their agenda.

      In a way it's a complement to the Obama administration. It's happening because it's the only thing they've got. Lacking anything real to complain about they are forced to retreat to the ridiculous.

      [edit]
      Birther theory has a certain beauty to it in that much like the faking of the moon landing conspiracy it will probably never go away even though everyone knows it's BS.

      The whole thing reminds me of the evolution of the newspaper Pravda in Russia. After the collapse of the soviet union Pravda was left as an utterly discredited paper. Their name was actually slang for liar. So what did they do? They tossed their useless credibility out the window and started writing stories about space aliens and werewolves. The attitude was everyone thinks we're full of it we might as well use it to our advantage. People will read any story that is sufficiently lurid even i they know it isn't true. Pravda survived, morphing into Russia's major tabloid similar to the Weekly World News.

    • 2 years ago
  • thedirtman
    • 0
      thedirtman  
    • Image

    • When is proof enough? Could this be a fabrication that was anticipated years ago in the belief that one day Barack Obama would be President of the United States of America?

    • 2 years ago
  • shanklinmike
  • isnamthere
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • thedirtman:

      But when has that difference been made an issue in any other presidential campaign? Why have no other candidates been required to show that difference?

      I'm just saying it's quite the double standard

    • 2 years ago
  • Ihatethemall
  • Ihatethemall
  • Saladin
  • Found_Avenue
    • 0
      Found_Avenue  

    • Birthers make me want to put my fist through a wall.

      By making these claims that he is a Kenyan citizen, they are not only saying that Obama should be removed from the presidency, they are also implying that he should be arrested or deported, for being an illegal alien. They are saying that for all these years, he has been using a Social Security number illegally, working illegally, serving Illinois as a Senator illegally, and even paying US taxes illegally. They are implying that his whole life, his whole record of service, is essentially a lie, and that his parents planned this big coverup long ago...

      Watch Chris Matthews rip G. Gordon Liddy a new one for propagating this bullshit....

    • 2 years ago
  • soberwood
    • 0
      soberwood  

    • My only comment is that wack jobs like these make the less ridiculous claims of the right wing media seem more credible. Which is something that we all need to remember. What happened and is still happening has nothing to do with where our president drew in his first breath. "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"

    • 2 years ago
  • J_Jammer
    • 0
      J_Jammer [removed]  

    • It is pointless to complain about them. If their case is false then the best thing to do is IGNORE...

      don't waste words on a situation that doesn't matter let alone won't make a bit of difference to those that believe him to not be from here.

    • 2 years ago
  • unimatrix0
    • 0
      unimatrix0  

    • important post Nettle, thank you

      While the birthers may appear harmless and crazy, they represent a dangerous and troubling symptom. If they were to get hold of the right issue they may do a great deal of damage to our nation.

      The birthers represent a racist, conservative element that simply cannot accept the social change entailed with the election of a black president.

    • 2 years ago
  • remanns
    • 0
      remanns  

    • I think these are "flat-earther-birthers"; they think Obama's "true" birth certificate is stashed in the same super-secret film studio as the lunar lander set.

    • 2 years ago
  • unimatrix0
    • 0
      unimatrix0  
    • JanforGore:

      a myopic self righteousness helps no one, it only creates divisions.

      The story is valid, and indeed, if you cared to look you would find that many birthers are the same people who deny anthropogenic climate change.

    • 2 years ago
  • JanforGore
    • 0
      JanforGore  
    • JanforGore:

      I DON'T CARE about them. They are IRRELEVANT to me and I'm tired of seeing the same crap here that I could see on FOX NEWS AND CNN if I even watched their slop on tv. And your arrogance and intolerance is just as inclined to make divisions. So please don't tell me what is news or what is not news.

    • 2 years ago
  • unimatrix0
    • 0
      unimatrix0  
    • JanforGore:

      I am asking you to see the connections, the birthers are the same people who will fight you on climate change, hunger, etc.

      I support most of what you stand for, I just wish you could see and appreciate the larger, interconnected picture.

      (and yes, I know I am often arrogant and intolerant)

      peace

    • 2 years ago
  • Nettle
    • 0
      Nettle  
    • JanforGore:

      "Climate change needs to be stopped. Hunger needs to be stopped. Poverty needs to be stopped. Corporate destruction of our environment needs to be stopped. Care about that?"

      You're right. It does need to be stopped, but the majority of people in the world aren't like you. They care about other things. They have separate yet equal interests. It's a matter of opinion what you find important to you.

      I found it rather interesting that you started a group for sexy poetry (which is cool, btw) but then bitch when users make a post about something that you don't care about. You crucify other people for not paying attention to your causes more, but then have something that doesn't help climate change one bit. I'm not criticizing the group, just your motives. I personally don't care about marijuana issues, but I don't make multiple comments on those posts explaining my distaste for it.

      Thanks for commenting and bumping up my story! :hug:

    • 2 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • metalcookiesxy70
  • metalcookiesxy70
    • 0
      metalcookiesxy70  
    • JanforGore:

      @Meta,
      (Are you being sarcastic? If not)
      I will first state that everyone is indeed enitiled to their opinion, but please prepare yourself....

      The point is that everyone can get on whatever article they want, if you're just complaining about others not getting onto your articles or not being "concerned" with the issue/topic then that is being selfish and slightly ignorant...

    • 2 years ago
  • metalcookiesxy70
  • thedirtman
    • 0
      thedirtman  

    • Is it really necessary for Americans to produce everything on demand? In my humble opinion, I don't think so. People need the assurance that there will be limits to what is demanded by them.

      So I posed a question as a comment on Huffington Post. It was a little absurd, but I think it makes the point. If I questioned whether Lou Dobbs were a man or a woman should he oblige and pull off his trousers on national TV to produce the goods?

      Huffington Post pulled my comment. I don't see why anyone should be so offended, There has to be some logical end to forcing people to produce items to disprove absurd claims.

    • 2 years ago
  • unimatrix0
  • trut
  • jh64487
    • 0
      jh64487  

    • we still have a large percentage of american who believe the earth is 6000 years old and that god created everything exactly as it was now.

      oh and that jesus is coming back soon...after the apocalypse.

      yea...there's not much we can honestly do it except mock them relentlessly

    • 2 years ago
  • ras_menelik
    • 0
      ras_menelik  

    • It's like they're the Cambridge police, Obama's in his house -- the White House -- and they need to see some ID.

      assumptions and misunderestimations are the Mother of FUBARed!!

    • 2 years ago
  • kennymotown
    • 0
      kennymotown  

    • Nettle, congrats for your post. I love these birther people they are currently my reason for hating the right wing fringe. If it wasn't this it would be Obama's going to take your guns crowd. We have this idiot talk show guy from of all places Portland Oregon where I live, Lars Larson and from the gitgo he has been from this fringe. I drive for a living and can't wait for this guy to cross the street in front of me.

    • 2 years ago
  • GodsnLiberals
  • Nettle
  • jh64487
  • larrysnotes
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