Israel Shoots, Kills Two girls, aged 2 and 7 waving white flag: Many witnesses-Probe called

why, for god sakes! WHY?

Continued from above...........................................................

ANJALI KAMAT: That was Iman al-Najjar from the village of Khuza’a in Gaza, where—describing the shooting and killing of Rawhiya al-Najjar. I want to turn to another clip from another story that’s also in the Human Rights Watch report. This is the story of Khaled Abed Rabbo, whose two daughters, age two and seven, were killed in front of their home in Ezbat Abed Rabbo in Jabalya. Khaled Abed Rabbo took me to the spot where his daughters were killed, when I visited Gaza in March of this year.

KHALED ABED RABBO: [translated] January 7th, it was a Wednesday, the Israeli army ordered us over a megaphone to leave our houses. We came out holding white flags—my wife, my mother and my three daughters and I holding white flags. We exited our house from there and came to this very spot. We stood at the spot for seven minutes, waving flags, waiting to see if they would let us enter our house or go somewhere else.

There was a tank there with two soldiers sitting on top of it. One was eating chips, and the other, chocolate. For seven minutes, we stood there without talking. Then, suddenly, one emerged from the tank and fired at the children. My daughter Amal, she was two years old, her intestines fell out. My daughter Suad, age seven, was also shot. My daughter Samar, age four, was shot in the back, chest and stomach; her spine was destroyed.

ANJALI KAMAT: Suad died almost instantly, and Amal died of her wounds a few hours later, because no ambulances were allowed into the area. Samar is paralyzed from the waist down. Khaled Abed Rabbo’s mother was also seriously injured. When the family returned home towards the end of Operation Cast Lead, their home was a pile of rubble. I asked Khaled Abed Rabbo whether Hamas had a presence in the area.

KHALED ABED RABBO: [translated] This is a border area. There’s no resistance here at all. The soldiers were eating chips and chocolate. How ironic that as my child were shot dead, the Israeli soldiers were eating chocolate. They were sitting on top of the tank, not even inside the tank. I mean, there’s no resistance here.

ANJALI KAMAT: Khaled Abed Rabbo from Jabalya describing what happened to his two daughters.

Fred Abrahams, talk about—these are two of the seven incidents you investigated. Were these war crimes? What are you calling for?

FRED ABRAHAMS: They’re highly suggestive of war crimes. Both cases are really strong. I mean, in the first, the soldiers ordered this group of women to leave the area. And they did, with Rawhiya al-Najjar waving a white flag. And as they approached the house, they came under fire, and she was killed. The second case is even, maybe, stronger because the family was standing outside their home, ordered outside by Israeli soldiers, and they came under fire.

But the key thing is there must be an investigation. And the point I want to make: the Israeli government claims—and in their big report that the ambassador was talking about, they claim they’re investigating also these two cases. One week ago, we called these two families and asked them a simple question: has anyone from the Israeli military or government contacted you to ask the basics of what happened to your family? The answer from both families was “no.” So, I want to place serious doubt onto the claim that this is an investigation. How much can they really be looking at it if they don’t ask the victims themselves?

AMY GOODMAN: Fred Abrahams, we want to thank you very much for being with us, senior researcher in the Emergencies Program at Human Rights Watch; the name of the report, “White Flag Deaths: The Killings of Palestinian Civilians During Operation Cast Lead.”

continued..........from above

AMY GOODMAN: Anjali, you were in Gaza.

ANJALI KAMAT: That’s right. I visited Gaza a month—two months after Israel’s Operation Cast Lead. And I was there in March. And I want to go to the story, one of the stories, that’s in your report. And it’s the story of forty-seven-year-old Rawhiya al-Najjar. She was shot and killed by a bullet to her head while she was waving a white flag.

ANJALI KAMAT: I visited the village of Khuza’a in March of this year, nearly two months after the killing of Rawhiya al-Najjar. I met twenty-three-year-old Yasmine al-Najjar, who was walking right next to Rawhiya and was shot in the arm and the leg. On the morning of January 13th, Rawhiya had led a group of women out of their heavily shelled neighborhood. Yasmine described what happened as they walked toward the village center waving white flags.

YASMINE AL-NAJJAR: [translated] Do you see that red door over there with the opening above the door? Rawhiya and I, and many other women and girls behind us, were walking this way, and we were waving flags. Suddenly, we saw one of the Israeli Special Forces come down the stairs from Faris’s house. And as we reached this point, it seemed by the way he was standing that he was aiming his gun at us. I took one step forward and saw a bullet hit Rawhiya right near her ear. Rawhiya fell down. Here, this is where she fell. I was here. Look, you can still see Rawhiya’s blood stains. I was here, and Rawhiya was over here.

ANJALI KAMAT: I also spoke to Rawhiya’s fifteen-year-old daughter, Heba al-Najjar, who watched as her mother was shot and killed.

HEBA AL-NAJJAR: [translated] The Israelis told us to leave and come towards the center of the village. So we left for the village center, and as we were walking, Special Forces who were in Faris al-Najjar’s house shot my mother in the head. I wanted to bring her back from there, but our neighbors and friends were nervous for my safety. I think her body lay there from about 8:00 in the morning until 8:00 at night.

ANJALI KAMAT: People in the Najjar neighborhood were outraged that a group of unarmed women and children carrying white flags were targeted by the Israeli army.

YASMINE AL-NAJJAR: [translated] They fired at us, even though we were holding white flags. What can that possibly mean? They meant to kill us. Their shots were intentional, as if they wanted to take revenge on us. We had children, we were waving white flags, but it was useless.

ANJALI KAMAT: Another neighbor, an eyewitness, thirty-one-year-old Iman al-Najjar, echoed Yasmin’s sentiments as she spoke to me from the remains of her relatives’ home, burned out by white phosphorus the day before Rawhiya was killed.

IMAN AL-NAJJAR: [translated] When they killed our neighbor, Rawhiya, she was holding a white flag. It was a white flag. She didn’t have any kind of weapon on her. Even so, they considered her a criminal, a part of the resistance, and they killed her in cold blood.

ANJALI KAMAT: Iman then showed me the house from where the shots had been fired. She pointed out a hole in the wall with a direct view of the spot where Rawhiya and Yasmine had been shot.

IMAN AL-NAJJAR: [translated] Rawhiya was coming from there waving a white flag. One soldier was looking out from here, and another one down, and fired a bullet that directly hit Rawhiya. She fell to the ground, but we couldn’t get to her. We tried several times to rescue her, but we couldn’t, because there was still heavy fire coming down on us.

continued..........

ANJALI KAMAT: Now, the press release from Human Rights Watch and the gist of the report says that the internal military investigations have been inadequate, and they’re urging more investigations into these specific cases. So, my question is, is the IDF going to look at these specific cases? Have they looked at them already, and will they look at them again?

AMBASSADOR DANIEL CARMON: I can tell you that there is an ongoing investigation by the IDF, including on these allegations. And please, do yourself a favor and go into this 150-page report that we have put out. You will see a new, very professional look at what this operation in Gaza was all about, including—including those various allegations that the IDF is investigating internally.

ANJALI KAMAT: Israel’s Deputy Permanent Representative to the United Nations, Ambassador Daniel Carmon. I reached him yesterday on the telephone. We invited him on the show, but he declined to come on with someone from Human Rights Watch and spoke to me over the telephone yesterday.

Fred Abrahams, what is your response? And can you respond specifically to two points that he made: one, that the Palestinian witnesses that you spoke to, somehow, that their testimony is suspect; and secondly, this internal investigation that he talked about, this 150-page report?

FRED ABRAHAMS: Right. Well, the main criticism from the Israeli government of our report is attacking the methodology. And, you know, this is the same methodology we use all around the world, not just in Israel and Palestine. And it works. It relies on on-site visits and looking at ballistics evidence. We saw shell casings and ammunition boxes, tank tracks—excuse me.

And the key issue is the witnesses. They claim that you can’t trust a Palestinian witness. Now, you know, these are not one-off, quick interviews. These are almost deposition-like interviews that go on for many hours, sometimes revisited, at least three individuals separately for each attack.

And I really want to debunk the notion that these Palestinians won’t talk about Hamas. They will, and I know it, because I personally researched and wrote a report about Hamas violations against other Gazans. This is kneecappings, executions, disappearances against mostly Fatah members and supporters, but not exclusively. And what was the main source of our information for that report? It was Palestinian witnesses, and they spoke about it. They talked about how their relatives were taken away and are missing.

And so, it’s just untrue that Gaza is a homogenous terrorist den. There is a wide spectrum of views. As the incidents last week show, there was a battle between Hamas and a more extreme Islamist element that’s in Gaza. So you have a variety of views, and people will talk about Hamas.

continued....

AMBASSADOR DANIEL CARMON: Those kinds of reports—and we’ve seen a few in the last two months—tend to mislead in a conception that takes it into a generalized world. And I think that what we are confronted with is—we have a bigger picture. The bigger picture is a new phenomenon that the world is confronted with. And I can tell you firsthand, at the United Nations also, this new world of new kind of warfare, you know, people don’t know exactly how to confront this. On the one hand, a democracy, like Israel, with a free society, free press, everything is transparent, using and exerting its right to self-defense against terrorism. On the other side, a terrorist organization that has been occupying the territory of the Gaza Strip for a while now.

Human Rights Watch coming and investigating—and I think that we have a problem in the methodology of this investigation. They ask questions from people who cannot really say what they think, people who saw the systems and the way Hamas was fighting from within populated areas. And they were—they’re not only living in a territory occupied by terrorism, they are also under terror from their so-called leaders in the stronghold, terrorist stronghold, called Gaza.

ANJALI KAMAT: But Ambassador Carmon, if I can interrupt for a second, I mean, reading and looking at Human Rights Watch’s methodology, and they’ve also put out a report, a statement, last week saying that, you know, it wasn’t just—first of all, they spoke to three eyewitnesses in each of the eleven incidents—seven incidents they looked at, eleven civilians being killed. They looked at ballistic evidence, medical records, interviewing multiple eyewitnesses, each person separately, not, you know, in a group. What is your problem with their methodology?

AMBASSADOR DANIEL CARMON: Well, I understand that, and we appreciate any serious, credible investigation, but I would refer you, if I may, to a bigger, larger picture. Unfortunately, organizations like Human Rights Watch, I’m afraid to say, did not take the big picture into account.

ANJALI KAMAT: But Ambassador Carmon, you’re speaking in very general terms. They speak quite specifically about seven incidents, eleven civilians—five women, four children—who were killed while there were waving white flags.

AMBASSADOR DANIEL CARMON: I understand that, and I can tell you that I’m very proud to represent the country whose army, the IDF, is investigating, as a matter of regular procedure, any incident, any allegations that is submitted to it. It is doing so in a very clear—and under legal scrutiny. I can—I’d like to refer you—and if you’re really interested to know, we have put up on our website, and I encourage you to see this, a very comprehensive research, a 150-page report, that specifically talks about the larger picture, but also about the charges against Israel on various issues, including these particular charges against Israel on the issue of white flags, but also other incidents that were thoroughly investigated by the IDF.

Maybe they don't teach you about the internet in Iran, but once you post something, everyone can read it, and if you delete it, there is still a record. In fact, that's how the Iranian government jails dissidents. And I quote MAO, "I'd rather nurse an Iranian than an .... (Israeli)."
Racism is soooo 87'. Merce for proving yourself to be who you are always.

You are wrong I have treated anybody I don't ive a rats ass who i treat. Religion is not a issue to me so I don't know where you got that I don't treat Jews. that is crap. I don't care what they are. i just don't go into Israel. that is all I have too many countrys to serve. Iran is my favorite because I talk Farsi fluently. So don't try to say that i distinguish beteen religions. That is just dead wrong.

Really MAO, in one of your last posts you so much as said you wouldn't treat an Israeli. BS detector alert.

I hardly thinking increasing the population threefold can even compare with extermination. And I hardly think that is an honest way to debate some seriously honest information I gave you about the Tru conditions in the WB or Gaza. Apparently, Palestinians are special enough to throw rockets at kids on purpose but Jews can't throw any in return according to you.
It''s ok, you're not the first set of Jew haters that made me who I am by sticking up to the blood libel and bullshit.
Like I said, some of them even married inter racially and had great lives after I kicked their ass in debate.

I see now mymicz, you are so important that you are allowed to shoot anyone's children you like. You can now continue to try and create a "Greater Israel" with the rest of the Zionists. Exterminate away.

By the way it's spelled through. A lot easier of a word than the fake oath you took you will not stand by.

Hmm, you tell someone Palestine is not Burma and someone who says they can't read well says you just advocated sending Palestinians to Burma. Wow, it's like telephone but worse. It's like mentally disabled telephone.
If you ever open your eyes and go there, and please go there in a bikini MAO, and tell them you're a lesbian, you'll see the large amount of wealth and comfortable housing outside of the green line areas.
Not to mention, NOT one of you ever critiques the behavior of the neighbors at the border like Jordan who restricts Palestinian movement regularly.

Lady, it's bias, Archie Bunker was a biased old fart. And I am 33, when I find that comment, I'll flag the shit out of it, and tic toc. I am a historian and an International Studies major. I've read more about this subject than by your own admission you ever could. I have sat with students of Arafat's Lawyers and discussed the subject with heads of state. Whoever you think you are and whatever you think you know, you should still learn to read more than a paragraph first.
I've been over the top in reading comprehension my whole life. You admit yourself you are sub par in that category. God, it's like admitting you don't know diddly..

Umm, I thought you were for freeing Darfur, I worked on that for a major Aid organization on a professional level. Under a master of International Studies so that would make me like an international studies RN.

Wow, you nursed some Iranians for 8 whole years, BFD, my grandmother was a nurse for 60 years, she'd probably smoke you in the ER still today. She nursed WWII soldiers and never stopped. She's still a total bitch like a lot of nurses I know. And who's to say you weren't a nurse Jackie anyway by your commentary? You're biased, you say you don't read, you dissed Oprah like she isn't worth a million times more than you are and hasn't done ten million times the giving. LAME and boring. Yawn. How many more times do I have to school you?
Oprah is the shit when it comes to humanitarian aid. And I got on there by working on a campaign to save arts in America. Go smoke some of the pot I worked to get legal and try to forget your embarrassment. Do you even know who Jack Herer is?

How nice the Palestinians can go live in another country run by a murderess goverment it was called Burma.
How quaint.

So the emperor has new clothes. who cares and about your nurse grandma like you talk about, who has she helped other than her own people. Has she been to Africa, Honduas, Mexico, Iran and helped the Kurds that the US gave chemicals to kill them. I think not.

I just want to say, until the first Intifada, for about 30 years, there were really no checkpoints like the one's we have today except at the green line. And every Israeli is practically strip searched at the airport and has their civil rights violated at every Mall, Theater and Supermarket to protect from suicide bombers. There is no Apartheid, everyone loses because of terror. Israelis share the civil injustice with their enemy. And Israeli Arabs don't get searched any more than Israelis because most of the time you can't tell them apart.

trut, The West Bank is not Myanmar, Many, Many Palestinians live in Very Very Nice expensive villas. You're welcome to take a trip to Jerico to see. While you're there, make sure they don't think you're a Jew or Gay. The main problems in the West Bank are with the checkpoints, which are gradually being dismantled as the bombings slow, and the fence, which the Supreme Court has agreed should be re-routed to protect Palestinian farmers. Do I agree these things need to be done, absolutely. Do I blame Israel that the West Bank is a Banana Republic full of Arab Oligarchs who use the poor to build villas, no. That is their own fault entirely. By the way, Palestinians get paid more to work on settlements than they do to work for their own people who might be rich. And they do, despite their beliefs. And I have personally seen a lot of wealth in the West Bank. As for Gaza, if someone hands you 10,000 homes built nicer than most McHomes (with HUGE greenhouses) in California, and you destroy them to create a launching pad to fire rockets at kids in kindergartens, while killing people in the PLO who are the true heirs of Palestinian government are are just now getting better, you not only reap what you sew, you bring tragedy on your own people, and that is sick. Do I feel Palestinian need a better life, yeah, but so do I. So does everyone except the Oligarchs of our respective nations, and not by killing Jews.
A Palestinian is an average human being to me, unless he claims to be a militant. I wish everyone who hated Israel could see so is an Israeli.
I have never been for killing kids, and if you could actually prove an accusation with something other than testimony with a vested interest I would be all for prosecution.
If you heard a warning from an army, what would you do to save your kids, would you wave a flag or would you get them the hell out of there?

Hey mymicz, maybe you aren`t the most evil person in history. Don`t you think the Palestinians should have more space and security in the holy lands. Seems like they are forced to live in ghettos or internment camps getting smaller and smaller every day.

ohhh Oprah wow you are the bomb. your gift to man kind is great. I should honor you and what you have done for man kind .

Shall I go on, I keep remembering how awesome I am. I protested for an increase for the National Endowment for the Arts and got on Oprah, I protested both Iraq wars and managed to help organizations work with LA cops develop strategies to keep the protest non-violent and to keep their cops from violating rights, despite being harassed by people like you. I am a regular fucking girl scout of human rights and have been reading long posts full of bullshit for a long time to get both sides of the story. I don't care if you judge me.
You don't seem to have balanced scales anyway.

OHHH, and prop 215, Jack Herer gave me a personally signed copy of The Emperor Wears no Clothes for the work I did collecting signatures. He is very, very nice.

Hmm, let's see, there was the aid work I did in Africa, with multiracial kids by the way and none of them Jewish, the work for the DFID in Sudan under the US State Department as well, I have helped several junkies try to kick, worked on some PSA type movies, oh that mean PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT, and I pretty much verbally kick the shit our of ignorant people all the time. I have converted a few skinheads in my time as well. One of them even married a black girl.

Pure ignorance. What have you done for your human man other than Israelies? I have done alot for alot of people. I am proud of myself I wonder if you are. go ahead and flag me again thats what you do best!

It's a song, it rhymes, I thought it might be easier for you to comprehend.
You said it yourself. Your posts are nothing compared to the truth.

Look at the post you put????? mine are nothing compared to the rambling you do . NO MORE!

In the middle of the road,
Is trying to find me.
I'm standing in the middle of life with my pains behind me.

But, I got a smile
For everyone I meet.
Long as you don't try dragging my bay,
Or dropping a bomb on MY street.

Come on baby,
Get in the road.
Come on now,
In the middle of the road, yeah.

In the middle of the road,
You see the darnest things.
Like fat cats driving around in jeeps through the city,
Wearing big diamond rings and silk suits.
Past corrugated tin shacks holed up with kids and
Man I don't mean a Hampstead nursery.
But when you own a big chunk of the bloody third world,
The babies just come with the scenery.

Come on baby,
Get in the road.
Come on now,
In the middle of the road, yeah.

One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six.

In the middle of the road,
Is my private cul de sac.
I can't get from the cab to the curb,
Without some little jerk on my back,
Don't harass me kid,
Can't you tell I'm going home, I'm tired as hell,
I'm not the cat I used to be,
I've got a kid, I'm thirty-three baby.
Get in the road.
Come on now,
In the middle of the road.

The Pretenders
My theme song.
My Theme: Read Both Sides of The Fucking Story!

Oh yeah, don't forget ignorance of actual history too.

It's not about fiction or non-fiction, it's about bias, which you so clearly and so often display.

it is all the same stuff all the time that is the only reason i don't read there shit anymore why would i read things that i don't belieive in, I read non fiction ,not fiction and one sided storys from people that probably are gitting their story form a one sided storyteller.

Well there you have it, a nurse who admits her oath was hypocritical not Hippocratic and she wouldn't do anything for a Jew lover. Too bad you are so quick to reveal your nature. My cousin delivers babies of all colors. I think I'll keep defending him over listening to you.

I'll keep this short for ya, I think they need some more RN's in Iran to clean up the wounded from their election. Good time to volunteer, especially with how they are treating three American hikers this month.

no, trut, I saw the future, where we made peace without your divisive ass commentary choosing sides for all of America (oh actually just 8% that are Jew haters according to the latest poll hahahaha), and we were all happy.

Some dogs just have a bad case of mange. Along with the inability to read which they will actually admit to you without shame. How do you know anything if you admit you only read a small part of the story, any story. Your words, not mine. I said Jew haters, are you finally admitting you are one. That's a relief, now everyone can see who you really are.

Oh, and I doubt VERY much that you want to get into a pissing match with me on "what I have done" that could possibly compare to your RN job, 4,000 square foot home, volunteering and travel. Just as an example? Despite being raised in poverty, I worked so hard that I was given the reins of my first multi-million dollar company (the first of six) when I was 23. The thing was teetering on the brink of banruptcy. I turned it around in two years and then sold it during the third for the benefit of the investors before going off to law school.

Oh. I see. I was simply trying to be nice. I won't make that mistake again, ma.

BTW: I write them long on purpose. I have learned that those who cannot pay attention for longer than 2 paragraphs are probably not worth my time or trouble anyway. Hey look! I was right again!

maof4brats,

I have not read a word of this thread since the first day, so if this comment seems out of context...that is because it IS out of context...

I saw your last post and recognized a certain fatigued frustration I think nearly all of us have felt at one time or another here. I have read many of your posts and have been pleased to see that you have become increasingly active on this site because you are obviously very bright and bring an interesting perspective to the mix.

But getting back to the frustration, I wonder if I could make a suggestion regarding an exercise that has helped me get past a few of those sticking points. Sometimes I am baffled by responses simply because I feel that I have stated the issue clearly, marshalled unassailable evidence, connected that evidence together with iron-clad logic and arrived at the only conclusion that could reasonably be derived from analysis of the available facts. Yet one or more of the responses continue to be diametrically opposed to my conclusion. How could that possibly be?

Well, the first possibility is one that I am sure leapt right off the page at you. It is that I am a conceited, self-centered, self-involved schmuck who can't see all the flaws in his statement of the issue, analysis or conclusion because he is blind to his many imperfections. OK, I will give you that one. But that still leaves the 10% of the time when I really AM right...

The exercise is, while in the midst of participating here on some article, pause, take a blank piece of paper and write the following, leaving a fair amount of space between each numbered topic:

1. Generally

2. Current

3. Issue

The exercise is pretty quick: Next to "Generally" describe generally how you are feeling today. Happy? Sad? Energetic? Tired? Lonely? Stressed? whatever. But I am usually able to capture 90% of what I am feeling in a dozen or so descriptive words. Something like: Mostly content. Sort of hungry. Bored. A little lonely, killing time until my wife comes home.

Next to "Current" write down a similar group of words explaining why you decided to go to this site right now. Why not Huffpo? Why not the John Birch Society page? Why not the "Questionable Content" web comic (Better yet, why not Girl Genius?"). Are you in the mood to learn or to teach? Just want to dialog with someone? Friend or foe?

Lastly, next to issue, write a few words as to why you slected the particular issue on which you are commenting at that moment. Did you see a comment by someone else that outraged you? Is it simply an area that has long interested you? Did you hope there might be an opportunity to share your knowlege? Were you hoping for a confrontation so you could blow off steam? Were you hoping to meet someone sympathetic to your point-of-view for a reasoned and reasonable discussion?

O.K., now with all of that in front of me, I often find myself just a little embarrassed. I may have come to Current that day mostly because I wanted to have another friendly dialogue with a few of my "Current Friends" but gotten side-tracked when I responded to some nutbag who couldn't LEARN if I performed a total brain transplant on him. So if I have hit a dead end with somebody...1) it is never too late to fix that...just drop the nimrod toy and go pick up one with a brain, 2) this little exercise takes me 80 % of the way to a conversation I WILL enjoy...just by following my own signposts.

Not for everyone, of course, but it almost always worlks for me...

Mymicz smiled, must`ve just seen a school bus filled with non-zionists firebombed.

I think proper torture for someone who runs around calling women bitch would be to make him my bitch and have him clean the floor with his already dirty tongue.

Jubal, you made me smile:)

RFI you make me crack up! You're right, nobody hates Jews more than Jews, it's why we are cursed. No one scrutinizes their actions more than Jews, it is a part of our culture. We hold ourselves to a higher standard by law not genetics.

Habibi nour el ha ein, means my love the light of my eyes, incredible song. Arabic music is a testament that all cultures can shine despite restrictions. That is why I take no excuses from terrorists. They make their people suffer for their stupidity when they are capable of creating something great!

RFIDem, I know how you feel, dogs are much less political and much less biased. And they howl for any kid that dies, not just Palestinian ones.

Both Israelis and Palestinians employ terrorist tactics. One side is not more righteous than the other.
That is simply the way it is.
Any objective observer with minimal emotional investment in either side can see that.

Nobody hates jews more than jews. Get over yourselves.

No one here hates the jews, We only despise the evil actions of the israeli government. The killing of people who wave white flags and still get shot. The unarmed women and children who are murdered.

@mymzyk

LOL "I just emailed Homeland Security" you are such a comic you have me peeing in my pants.

Surely if not water boarding, perhaps you are talking about some CBT? or perhaps disemboweling?

What kind of torture are you talking about?

In Arabic: Cul Calb Bi Diomo Ya Naal Abook.
It means every dog has his day you shoe scraping of your father. ( a major insult in Arabic)
Not directed at anyone in particular, just at Jew haters.

Prijedor, don't talk to me like you talk to your mother! I am an American woman and I don't take that kind of shit from anyone, FLAG!

Mymicz1--You and bielski misread most of the people and comments on this site. People who oppose brutality do not automatically hate the Jewish people or side with Hamas and its policies.

Most Americans feel more affinity for the Jewish people than any other people on this planet. Most Americans support and admire Israel, and feel great empathy for your situation.

But there comes a time when we all have to admit that what we are doing is NOT working, and until we can admit that, we will not find a solution that does not include taking the lives of innocent children. Our government is not innocent, and we are guilty of great atrocities in our own wars.

It is time, it is way past the time to find a better way to deal with conflict.

ADL never did shit for me, they were too busy defending Muslims from discrimination after 9/11.
Did you know they work with Muslims?
I bet you didn't:)

The United States and probably most so called "Western" nations have been infiltrated and overrun with corporate cronies who are on a revolving door from the board room to cabinet posts and appointments to governing agencies. Essentially they are ruled by the corporations which include, International banking cartels, the World Trade Organization, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberger group, the Military Industrial Complex, Natural Resource corps such as OIL, GAS, POWER, WATER etc, etc. 90% of those senators and congress or parliamentarians in governments are in the pockets of these corporate controllers.

You are correct when you mention the terror that has been perpetrated by the list of countries that you mention and specifically the corporations who call them home or do major business in them. These corporations are the real Facists who have no concern for humanity. Their only concern is their profits; the more the better. They fuel both sides of the conflicts all over the world by pumping money and selling technology and commodities to both sides of most every conflict. They profit when there is no peace.

There is no huge profits in peace, like there are in war. War is a force that now gives people meaning in their lives. Especially to those in the United States. War is a drug like heroine or crack cocaine. Americans can't get enough. They buy violent video games, they go to violent movies, they have the most guns per capita, and they have the highest crime rates, they have probably the highest domestic violence rates going, too.

The best way that anyone who cares about human beings, regardless of their ethnic background, those who love peace and want to create peace should refrain from taking arrogant and unwavering positions defending ideologies and religious ideals. We need to seek our common humanity and to increase a dialogue of humility.

I understand why the "three additional commandments" were added but I believe that taking that posture only cements conflict and doesn't lead to solutions. Humility and truthful acknowledgment of facts can lead to dialogue, understanding and peace.

Is it possible to create a non-violent world, yes, but it will take a huge sacrifice. The biggest of which must come from Multinational corporations. They have to get out of the business of War.

Israel and Palestine are both pawns of these Multinational Corps. They have learned from religions how to manipulate people's minds to stand blindly behind ideas and to turn them into fearful sheep. They are bad shepherds.

We need to increase our sensitivity and compassion to the suffering of people all around us. We need to increase our awareness radius past our nose, our buttocks, our penis, our vaginas, our beauty, our youth, our vanity. It is my belief that most people have an awareness radius that does not exceed 5 feet around them. They are either self centered or ego centered, or even worse, nationalistic or ethnically centered. They are fans of money and style and class. They want to be admired and looked up to, but they mostly don't deserve any praise at all. This is how I see many Americans, and "westerners" in general.

People who really do care about human rights are usually labeled "liberal" or "lefties" or "suckers" or "koolaid drinkers" because they have a high level of human compassion. This is completely upside down and inside out. This is what needs to change.

Remember the Watchmen? What did it take to achieve peace? A LIE!! Dr. Manhattan accused of being a terrorist. That movie was a metaphor about our time now, even though it was set in the 80's. Humans became peaceful once they were unified by a common threat. Is that what its going to take here and now? The antichrist? Aliens? A China/Russia communist alliance? What?

I see a few of the names on these very long and rammbleing post and I just don't look. Why would you?

Wow, the ADL really is getting their money's worth today. You guys are the only people who even bother to read those forever posts.

Numerous Arab-Israeli conflicts followed, most notably the Six-Day War in June of 1967. It is important, in fact imperative, to understand that Jews only wished to live in peace from 1948 onwards when awarded three sections of Palestine by the UN the previous year (three other setions going to the Arabs). But the Arab Muslim world wanted no Jewish state and herein lies the real reason for the ongoing tragedy to this day. It is also important to grasp that terror against Jews long preceded the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967. The idea that if only the Jews would leave the occupied areas (occupied I might add out of the necessity of war) there would be peace is complete bullshit. So is the idea that Abraham, Jesus, et al. were really Muslims all along. This is Muslim fantasy, not reality. In any case, if even only one square mile of Israel remained it would still be too much for the bulk of the Arab Muslim world. No Israel is what the Arabs really want. Terror preceded occupation, not the other way around and anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or mendacious. And Muslim distortion of the past represents just one more egregious wrong by the Islamic world at large, a world which is dysfunctional in the extreme and a burden to all mankind.

The ancient Hebrews apparently originally came from lower Mesopotamia in the Sumeria region. It is possible that even before this they originated from somewhere in the Arabian peninsula but this is highly speculative. The next migration was to roughly what is now Israel and surrondings and after that a portion (not all) of the Jews, for whatever reason or reasons, migrated to Egypt (Goshen).

The archeological record shows that another portion of the Jews remained behind and did not go to Egypt sometime in the middle of the second millennium B.C. When Jews returned from Egypt, again for whatever reason or reasons, while the nineteeth dynasty was ruling over the Nile river valley, these Jews encountered a very fluid situation. Other Semitic peoples occupied the Promised Land and shorlty thereafter (c.1200 B.C.) Philistines arrived in the Gaza area, probably coming from Asia Minor, but this too is not known for a certainty. By 1000 B.C. or so the ancient Hebrews had established a unified kingdom and ruled an area more extensive than Israel and the West Bank today. The timing was fortuitous for such a polity because neither Egypt nor any power in Mesopotamia was predominant then (the Egyptians had slipped into the Post-Imperial period beginning with the twennty-first dynasty and Assyrian power was in a lull at the time). Thereafter (c. 900 B.C), the Jews split into two kingdoms, probably due to dynastic and tribal rivalries. Disunified as they were and with the rise of the Assyrian Empire and then Chaldean power, the northern kingdom of the Jews disappeared from history, as did its people (c. 720 B.C.), while the southern kingdom was done in by the Chaldeans around 586 B.C. Thereafter followed the brief but tragic Babylonian Captivity of the Jews, the return to Palestine under the auspices of Persians who were far more tolerant than those running Iran today and the beginning of the construction of the Second Temple, the First having been destroyed by the Chaldeans in the early sixth century B.C.

After about two hundred years of Persian rule, the Jews were briefly goverened by Alexander the Great, then the Ptolemies till about 200 B.C. and then the Seleucids until the Maccabaean Revolt in 167 B.C. This revolt was successful and the Jews had their last independent state until 1948 A.D. when the Romans took over Palestine under Pompey's generalship in 63 B.C. Thereafter followed a turbulent Roman rule, replete with two Jewish revolts, one in the first century A.D., when the the Second Temple was destroyed by Titus, the wailing wall being a remnant of this, and the other was in the second century A.D. led by Bar Kochba, and this too was put down by the Romans during the time of the Emperor Hadrian. Following this the real Diaspora began and only in the late nineteenth century did large number of Jews begin to filter back into the Holy Land, ruled unproductively for centuries by the Ottoman Turks and their Arab subjects. The Jews bought land from absentee Turkish and Arab landlords, often at exorbitant prices. THEY DIDN'T STEAL IT. Following Ottoman defeat in WWI the British Mandate was set up to run a goodly section of the former Ottoman Empire. In 1922 about 78% of the Mandate was sectioned off and Transjordan was born. Jews were forbidden to remain or settle in it. That left about 22% of the original British Mandate, approximately half of which became the state of Israel in 1948.

The Arab position even before Israel was created was outright hostility to any Jewish state and violence against the Jews began in the 1920s at the instigation of a truly malevolent man, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, a great admirer of Hitler it might be added. For self-defense purposes the Jews organized the Haganah (there were proto-groups even before this).

Jubal, #1, under the definitions here, the US, China, Russia, Germany, France, Italy and even Brittain qualify as terrorist nations for what they have done in Iraq and Afghanistan much less Africa and elsewhere with our corporations. Not to mention all the former soviet sattelites that are helping too. Does that make us all terrorists? I think not.
#2 No, I don't believe in an eye for an eye. I believe a suicide bombing differs from stray gunfire during a war in that one aims to kill civilians and one does not.

Oh and WPTV, did you notice that HRW admitted the Israeli Army was doing up to the minute changes to it's warning system as necessary? I wonder if any other army in the world has EVER done that?
You know what, end this argument here and now, find one.
ONE other country that uses a warning system for it's enemies that it strives to improve even in the heat of battle. That is, besides the US who uses Israeli technology.
I dare you to name one.
If you can't frankly, your argument that Israel is NOT the most moral army in the world is absolutely moot.

1 half decent looking child murderer. My friend Mike is from Israel, beautiful beaches, but most of the women were horse toothed trolls and the guys looked like gangsters. Everyone had dark hair and he said they had no culture to speak of. Orthodox Jewish people are shunned and beaten by the Zionists and Sephardics are being actively eliminated. Has a ethically pure state ever been created that has worked without a big old dose of genocide?
.

So...to say the IDF is a "Moral Army" is saying you would kill children holding a white flag, children NOT armed, NOT dangerous. Children staring you in the eye thru your scope on top of your rifle.

To pull that rigger on a child is an act that is evil, and act that I cannot fathom.

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! Anyone condoning the murder of a child is in my opinion as guilty as the one that pulled the trigger.