Are We Born to Believe in God?
source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6823229.ece
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- DeliaTheArtist
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The idea has emerged from studies of the way children’s brains develop and of the workings of the brain during religious experiences. They suggest that during evolution groups of humans with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs, perhaps because they tended to work together better and so stood a greater chance of survival.
The findings challenge campaigners against organised religion, such as Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion. He has long argued that religious beliefs result from poor education and childhood “indoctrination”.
Bruce Hood, professor of developmental psychology at Bristol University, believes the picture is more complex. “Our research shows children have a natural, intuitive way of reasoning that leads them to all kinds of supernatural beliefs about how the world works,” he said.
“As they grow up they overlay these beliefs with more rational approaches but the tendency to illogical supernatural beliefs remains as religion.”
"“It is a small step from this to conceptualising spirits, dead ancestors and gods, who are neither visible nor tangible.” Boyer holds out little hope for atheism. “Religious thinking seems to be the path of least resistance for our cognitive systems,” he said. “By contrast, disbelief is generally the work of deliberate, effortful work against our natural cognitive dispositions — hardly the easiest ideology to propagate.”
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Are we hardwired for the belief in god, or is it taught?
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slarabee [removed]
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slarabee [removed]
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hammywill
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slarabee:
I suppose I could agree with the idea that Religion is dangerous, if we have a common definition of the term Religion. I do not think that a belief in a "god" is dangerous. Instead it is when we attach Dogma to that belief. I like Thomas Payne's concept "Religion is MAN'S interpretation of the word of 'god.' but the word of god itself is the living universe."
- 2 years ago
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hammywill
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hammywill
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slarabee:
You're welcome. It is nice to see that rational discourse can actually be obtained. :)
- 2 years ago
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hammywill
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Kylsport
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slarabee:
I agree with his reply as well.
- 2 years ago
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Kylsport
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Drach
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I still don't believe.
- 2 years ago
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Drach
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unimatrix0
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Magical thinking (belief in god) is an intellectual stage of development that all childrn go through.
Many people get stuck in that stage out of fear, or ignorance, or apathy.
Others continue to develop and leave behind immature and childish superstition, to face the world with a clear mind.
Thus, the atheist is intellectually superior to the religious, to those with a stunted intellect, to those who cling to magical thinking.
- 2 years ago
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unimatrix0
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ahappymintleaf
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unimatrix0:
As much as it sounds quite condescending, there are some anthropological studies that argue that in the steps of human intellectual growth, religion is a level that most people plateau at without going beyond regimented rules of hierarchy and the like.
But then again, studies of intellectual evolution are some of the most subjective things out there, so perhaps it is all incorrect.
Regardless, I agree with Reeseismyname completely. The study is a far cry from changing the organized religion/atheism debate, which the article really should have noted. It seems like common sense that children, when left to their own devices, would perhaps create metaphysical explanations for the world around them. I still do.
- 2 years ago
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ahappymintleaf
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unclecharlie
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unimatrix0:
The atheist is an intellectual moron. I can think of many more Catholic intellectuals than I can of atheist ones. Uni betrays her closedmindedness yet again.
- 2 years ago
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unclecharlie
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J_Jammer [removed]
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unimatrix0:
You three are terrible.
Stop sharing such asinine thinking as if it's fact. Talk about prejudicial....
- 2 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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ahappymintleaf
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unimatrix0:
J_Jammer, I never said atheists were intellectually superior. I was simply commenting on the existence of several peer-reviewed papers, with enough merit to be taught in college-level Paraprofessional Counseling courses, that suggested that religious beliefs are in the mid-ground of intellectual complexity. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, and even the professor of the course was incredibly careful to not offend anyone who was religious, but what unimatrix0 stated was not total BS, just not the best way to put it. If I had brought that textbook back with me to college, I would gladly quote it.
- 2 years ago
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ahappymintleaf
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2helenahandbasket
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unimatrix0:
LOL! Un, you never cease to amaze me.
Man has always sought God. Why would he do that, always?
- 2 years ago
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2helenahandbasket
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J_Jammer [removed]
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unimatrix0:
You can quote whatever you wan to....it won't make it any more right.
No atheist is smarter just because they are an atheist just like no Christian is saved just because they said OMG I believe in Jesus.
- 2 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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unimatrix0
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unimatrix0:
Helen
Man is violent, and always has been. But some men overcome their violence.
The same with religion.
Religion is primitive. It is something to be overcome.
- 2 years ago
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unimatrix0
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J_Jammer [removed]
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unimatrix0:
You should just use the word you're dancing around every single time you post about religion.
"I HATE religion and people who practice."
Because that's what every single post you make SCREAMS.
Or you could just do a better job of explaining yourself. Because right now you're doing as good a job of that as Obama is with Health Care reform...and for your information he sucks at explaining.
- 2 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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artemis6
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unimatrix0:
My son is seven . He does not appear to need to believe in god at all . He does talk to bugs and plants and living things though . For instance all pill bugs (rollie pollies) are called "Mister Friggins" . We talk about his dreams . He has enough magical thinking of his very own . God just hasn't come up .
- 2 years ago
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artemis6
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J_Jammer [removed]
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unimatrix0:
Sad he doesn't use logic like you.
He's lost until then.
Help him find his way.
- 2 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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acontradiction [removed]
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acontradiction [removed]
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DeliaTheArtist
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acontradiction:
"you are hardwired to be ignorant..always looking for answers"
That makes no sense. How is looking for answers ignorant?
- 2 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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spacemikey [removed]
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acontradiction:
Agrees with the artist, we are ignorant of many things... no one ever knows it all... The only dumb question is the one left unasked...
- 2 years ago
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spacemikey [removed]
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EtVoila
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acontradiction:
From that comment, I'm going to go ahead and assume that acontradiction is one who just sits around uselessly, not looking for answers, content to wallow in simplicity; one who is ignorant.
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EtVoila
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samthesixth
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It is a wonderful question for contemplation regardless of where you come down.
- 2 years ago
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samthesixth
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Tikbalang
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Religion began when primitive humans noticed a relationship between the Sun and life. They had no idea what the Sun was but they inferred it was responsible for life. The relationship is science fact now. What if for some reason on Earth there was light yet you could not actually see the Sun? I'm sure this is technically possible by some cosmic arrangement. What if there was simply light during the day and dark at night, no stars were ever visible. I think then religion would never have developed.
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Tikbalang
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maricaonesong
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Human Developmental research, via Ken Wilber, Don Beck, and Clare Graves, provides the answer. We all go through stages of development, and we all start at ground zero.
- 2 years ago
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maricaonesong
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Reeseismyname
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Well we may be hardwired to believe in something supernatural, but not necessarily god (nor a specific god). We can find the same belonging and sense of wonder and greatness in the science community, or in the art community, or in philosophy. Religion just happens to be the largest and it benefits us most as a species to belong to the biggest group to "survive."
- 2 years ago
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Reeseismyname
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Eri_Soulja
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i think we're hardwired and taught since God is mentioned so much in our lives.
i mean it just depends on your environment.. or you. - 2 years ago
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Eri_Soulja
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remanns
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Myth is NOT "a lie",.....it IS however a metaphor. The map is NOT the terrain.( Its all indecipherable data without the map you superimpose upon it.) ...And often, what you see is what you get,.....bear in mind you "had it" even before you "saw" it.
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remanns
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remanns
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.......................or not.
- 2 years ago
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remanns
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claybird121
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This is a pretty stupid claim. All this suggests is that humans are inherently seekers of the profound and the tremendous. I've had multiple "religious" or peak experiences, but it doesn't mean an invisible man doesn't want me to eat meat on sundays.
Humans want to experience the profound, and reality as it is is utterly profound and incredible.
- 2 years ago
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claybird121
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Sam_the_Wizer
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I think that a big draw of religion is a sense of social belonging as well. I grew up in a predominately Christian area (easily over 90%) and often felt like an outsider because my family didn't attend church. There were times when I felt the need to belong, but even if I had decided to attend church, I don't think I could have fooled myself into believing in the existence of god. When I was young I didn't even believe in Santa Claus even though my parents did nothing to dispel that myth. I did play along with that lie, because I sensed that was what was expected of me. Later in life when I was a proclaimed atheist I had people admit to me that although they were raised Christian, they did not believe in god and only went along with it because it was expected of them. There may be something hardwired to cause people to accept religion, but I think there is a pronounced social aspect to it as well.
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Sam_the_Wizer
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kstein
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when I was little church taught me to sing loud and proud,{and off key was ok}{tolerance} church taught me respect for others, and mega respect for our Elders, church taught me in this big world I am not alone, church taught me I am rich. there are people that have no food, church taught me to work hard and give only 10% back to him,{missions, food pantries,} and I would be blessed. Church taught me to Love purely, my "neighbor", settle our differences and not sue, Church taught me to look out for the widows and children and downtrodden{regardless of faith, color, attitude, or history} on and on and this is not taught in elementary schools because it is considers brainwashing. and when i left the building on Sundays I felt peaceful and loved and rich.
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kstein
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Sam_the_Wizer
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kstein:
All of which are wonderful things, but the belief in a god is not a necessary factor in a happy, charitable existence. Religion has historically also lead to oppression, violence, and bigotry on massive scales.
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Sam_the_Wizer
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2helenahandbasket
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kstein:
And today's society does everything it can to wipe out every good feeling one can possibly feel and learn from religion.
What a shame that those who do not believe try to wipe out all the good that can come from believing...
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2helenahandbasket
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spanky07 [removed]
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spanky07 [removed]
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wayseeker
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spanky07:
profound statement NumLock
- 2 years ago
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wayseeker
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TheDecemberists
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spanky07:
I agree with NumLock. Mankind created gods thousands and thousands of years ago when our knowledge was lacking a wee bit in the science and reasoning department o_O
Has no one read Gilgamesh?
- 2 years ago
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TheDecemberists
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2helenahandbasket
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spanky07:
I think you're right, spanky....
- 2 years ago
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2helenahandbasket
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artemis6
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Mystics and shaman the world over , have one thing in common in the first step on their spiritual path . Be not afraid . Or as Frank Herbert wrote in "Dune" , "Fear is the mind killer " . Another thing these people have in common , is fasting . I have always thought it interesting that the kidneys are considered the seat of fear in chinese traditional medicine . Your health will surely have significant impact on your outlook on life . Perhaps if your body is struggling with toxins of one kind or another , there is a body fear , transmitted to the mind thus becoming a mental state . A feeling of being under attack , may be projected onto the outside from the inside . Consider what dreams you have when ill , or obsessions when suffering . The liver is the seat of anger . I would like to see some research in this direction . In my own life there seems to be a remarkable correlation . So , no , I do not believe people need to believe in god . I think it is a response to fear and is a way to cope and self comfort . Religion has it's place in helping people grow psychologically . Children are becoming conscious of aspects in themselves when they believe in santa clause . The beloved jolly abundant generosity that exists in most of us . Our love of children and wish to see them happy . If all goes well they will become like santa . Santa exists in all of us . That is what is real . So to , it is with god .
- 2 years ago
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artemis6
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remanns
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artemis6:
1) even at my most cynical, I think the "god/spiritual/paranormal/cosmic-energyabstraction" is MORE than JUST a fear response.
2) aside from that caveat, I enjoyed and endorse that entire bit of yours. - 2 years ago
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remanns
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artemis6
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artemis6:
It is . However , once one has the reigns of life , has individuated from parents and become confident of ones' persona; judgements , god fades in importance . There are no atheists in the trenches of war , because there is momentary reversion . The feeling of powerlessness can be paralyzing and deadly . It keeps fear from overwhelming the psyche to think there is another who at least witnesses your suffering . Thus in the myths , god takes care of us when we die . The divine miracle of existence is unknowable . No more can be truly said . We make it what we need it to be .
- 2 years ago
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artemis6
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2helenahandbasket
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Man has searched for god since the dawn of man. Why do you suppose that is? I think this article might have the answers....
- 2 years ago
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2helenahandbasket
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hammywill
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2helenahandbasket:
A stupid statement to say that a SURVIVAL method is to be stupid.
- 2 years ago
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hammywill
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wayseeker
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The "religious" tendencies they speak about include: fear of the unknown - including paranoia. Basically, our ancestors evolved to be afraid of anything they were unsure about; e.g. strange noises in the woods, the dark, what ever was causing the ground to tremble, etc. Fear - especially during our early evolution - served our survival. Superstition - including religion - is a by-product of that fear and paranoia. Just as our ancestors invented tools(weapons) to control what they feared in their environment, the fearful mind invented rituals and prayer in attempts to control the unknown; e.g. the "deities" making the ground rumble. These weapons acted as a comfort blanket - putting their mind at ease while living in a hostile environment.
Other tools were developed by those who selfishly wanted an easier life; e.g. wealth, power. Some of our ancestors realized they could manipulate the fearful by using untestable threats. These untestable threats came in the form of curses and later, eternal punishment. Of course, as with all untestable threats, they usually offer a way out/reward - do as I say, and no harm will come to you. This basic criminal behavior served the survival of those doing the manipulating and gave the victims of the threats peace of mind. Those brave enough to question wouldn't have been tolerated. As religion became a little more civilized - by not executing anyone who questioned its criminal threats - atheism flourished.
We are not hardwired to believe in God. We are hardwired to fear what we perceive as a threat to our existence. We are also hardwired to trust authority (adults) - whom indoctrinate children with erroneous religious and superstitious beliefs.
Atheism is not fighting against nature - it is just a lack of belief in a deity. Rationalism and reason are also part of our nature - this also serves our survival. The more we understand about our environment and the way things work, the less we rely on superstition.
By Times commenter, Sean Cruise.
- 2 years ago
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wayseeker
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kstein
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wayseeker:
I think I disagree with the fear factor, we grew up in an organized religion, which taught all of us to be strong, in our convictions and in the woods,"Fear not for I am always with you". this strength had lead us all a path to serve our country, My sister was one of the first women to serve close to combat in Desert Storm, and now serves for the Dept of Def. going onto bases in the red zone. It is her faith that keeps her strong. and my brother served and now is a Corrections Officer, it is his faith that keeps him safe and not afraid. I myself serve and am not afraid, We go out in storms, and when my spouse died at the fault of the Dr. my religion taught me to forgive, that is was Gods plan, and did not sue as I could of, as many people told me to do. So fear no.
- 2 years ago
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kstein
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Darevalo
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wayseeker:
i like this explination. its not super fitting for modern life, but it a good reasoning for where the whole deal-ie came from.
- 2 years ago
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Darevalo
