Police prematurely link school bus attack on high school student to racism

The "double standard media" you talk about is very interesting.
Of course you realize that this is the same media which will never tell you the truth about what is really going on in this world. They will NEVER DARE report to you about the horrors which occur EVERY DAY.
For example, how many of these have you heard or read or saw in the last few days on NBC or CBS or ABC or CNN?
So you think the media only wants to report hate??
Are you kidding? Why did they NOT report these??? Do you know how many interviews with Mr. Obama and his staff, these "news" stations would lose, if they dared to report about the constant, daily murders and rapes done by Islamic terrorists??!!!

2009.09.16 (Bagur, Egypt) - A 63-year-old Christian is stabbed to death by a rampaging Muslim crowd.

2009.09.16 (Tungawan, Philippines) - Moro Islamists murder three people by throwing a grenade into a village.

2009.09.17 (Peshawar, Pakistan) - Two members of a family are kidnapped and tortured to death by Sunni hardliners.
2009.09.17 (Pattani, Thailand) - A Buddhist laborer is among three civilians shot to death by Islamic terrorists in separate attacks.

2009.09.17 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - A dozen African peacekeepers including three Christians and other civilians, are killed in a devastating suicide truck bomb attack by angry fundamentalists.

2009.09.17 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - Civilians and soldiers are among the dead as a Shahid suicide bomber detonates along a city street.

2009.09.19 (Mosul, Iraq) - An 11-year-old boy dies from injuries following a Jihad bombing.

2009.09.19 (Herat, Afghanistan) - Two children, ages 7 and 10, are blasted to death by a female suicide bomber.

2009.09.19 (Zubair, Iraq) - Two members of a religious minority are murdered by Muslim gunmen.

2009.09.19 (Helmand, Afghanistan) - A Danish soldier is killed by a sniper while on patrol.

2009.09.19 (Malakand, Pakistan) - Five people are riddled with bullets when Talibanis open point blank on a passenger vehicle.

2009.09.20 (Gazi-Yurt, Ingushetia) - Two local police are gunned down by Islamic militants.

You have just now read about murders done by people who live to hate and spill blood. These fools actually think that god is putting them into a sex heaven to pay them back for the murders they committed. Intelligent people, right?
Where is your outrage about the slaughtered victims???!!!! You are tooooo hung up on the school bus report to see what is really happening in this world.

Of course these incidents will not be reported by the liberal Muslim loving press! A boy beaten on the school bus is more important to their mission of misinformation!

So your mind is made up despite the facts or lack there of? This was an unprovoked racist attack even though you question whether it was or not yourself in your own comment. Given your stance in light of the actual facts, where do you thing the "deep-seated racism" truly resides?

"Hand a man a crutch and he will limp forever"! Hand him an opportunity and he will run like the wind. That is my personal quote, but feel free to use it!

I think some orthopedic experts might quibble with your comment about crutches, but your general point is a good one. Where we might disagree is what we consider "crutches" and what we consider an "opportunity".

Millions of people are looking for gov't. crutches, while ignoring the opportunities offered by America. You know exactly what I mean! A whole society revolving around victimisation and gov't. support! It is no different than slavery, just packaged with a different colored ribbon!

All your examples are individuals (highest paid actor, woman and most powerful man). These are exceptions to a very sad rule that still exists today. Take a trip to a predominantly African American school and tell me the playing field is level? Take a look at average income levels or higher education statistics. Not all African Americans are Oprah and Will Smith. So maybe when things are a little more equitable then you can suggest "moving on". As for your examples of black leaders who have brutalized people...what's your point? Of course some blacks can be hateful and violent...who has ever suggested otherwise? But you can't compare all African Americans to Amin or Mugabe any more than you can compare all whites to Hitler or Stalin.

Able to make HUGE logic leap, or illogic leaps - in a single bound. How did you get from a fight on a school bus between students to Democratic policy and where in the world do you live that the crime stats are so skewed, assuming it isn't in your own mind?

What is your ultimate solution, what would you have if you could have it all your way?

More rhetoric, no facts, from the grandstands. Am I here to solve a problem for someone else? Stand up and solve the problem on your own, which has clearly been a failure. Shall I be forced to mollycoddle criminals to meet a feeble liberal idea of justice. I have no guilt and I am perfectly willing to analyze facts and come to a conclusion without the interference of some notion of retroactive guilt. You have yet to address any issues, while tossing out comments with no basis in fact. You tell me? What is the solution for the problem plaguing the World and the U.S. regarding race relations. Why are black American juveniles and adult males committing crimes at rates much higher than other races in America? Please spare me the worn out concept of them being arrested more often. They are arrested more often because they are committing the crimes more often, Duh!

If in fact that is remotely true the logical reason would be because decades of not being able to participate on a level field has come to roost. You can't subjugate a race and then expect them to "play nice" when the chains come off.

To answer your question, the answer is to get people to admit their cultural biases, their bigotry and hate and then help them find why it exist in the first place. In understanding why they hate there is a chance the hate will subside.

Now don't get it twisted, there are some hardcore haters that will refuse to take part and will most likely do whatever that can to derail the process. But, in the process their children, friends and family may see the futility of their actions and the tide will eventually turn, even if those that will not relent drowned in the process.

This is not just his opinion. This an agenda that is always his topic.

You need to link that....because from what I heard she was not beaten like you described. And if it's not here on this site post it in its own new thread and link it in here.

That deserves it's own discussion.

Guess her story isn't that important as you stated.

Good-day.

Where did I state that it had something to do with me being told I'm wrong?

Where are these facts you state you use?

And why are you talking about me?

I never said it was equal to or worse than. I stated that it's no better than.

Why do you find it offensive? I didn't mention anyone's name nor did I point the finger. If you feel as if I was speaking to you....well that would be because you saw something about yourself.

How many hours do you think it will take for the Mr. Obama spies to adjust or modify in order to eavesdrop. They know what we know and more. Therefore, I don't think the Bush administration left them with any great jurdlesd or obstacles that they can't handle.
BTW, Mr. Obama, what do you think of the way I totally disagree with so many of your policies and comments?
I hope you will only think I am rebel and an enemy of heavy proportion and not that I am a racist just because I greatly and strongly disagree with you.
Back to you, Carper Diem, luckily, I don't really write subversive or revolutionary material, so the worst they can do is "watch" me.

Your theme.

Accuse, blame but never discuss.

That's the point. You attack the same group of people. You're are a big part of the issue.

Try to stop being so judgmental Jammer. You have a lot to offer, but you shoot yourself in the foot a lot by thinking that you're right all of the time.

Nobody is right all of the time, not even me (LOL)

I know I am part of the problem. Everyone is...no one can escape that.

I put forth the effort to discuss with anyone, but if you want to get into an insulting match....prepared to be insulted, because it will happen.

Don't start what you don't want, because I can give as much as receive if not more so.

Everyone is not part of the problem. That the problem, trying to make any and everyone a target.

You just can't take a shot at whoever you choose, just because, in your mind, everyone is part of the problem.

That's really shallow.

More third grade taunts. Yawn.

Why do you view this a something to be won or lost? Grow up.

How is that a taunt?

No.

You show me a white on white or a black on black that did the following for no other reason but taking a seat.... the person hitting the other person over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again IN THE FACE

Thanks, E and K, for bringing in a couple of additional salient points and perspectives. I didn't think anything COULD be added to this discussion by this point.

I, too, am baffled by the degree to which one of the positions in this "debate" seems to feel that they have a personal stake in the dermination of whether this attack was racially motivated or not. But "bafflement" and I appear to be becoming close friends. I decided to participate on Current back in January in the hope that I would further "broaden my horizons" and learn a few interesting and useful things. One of the things I have learned that was completely unexpected was how deeply entrenched people can be in views that are completely unsupported by logic, reason or even just rational explanation. Those same people are therefore seldom open to persuasion by anyone using those same tools.

That has not been the most pleasant learning experience of my life -- but it HAS been useful. I now find myself reading through client lists or lists of prospective jurors and the like and recoginizing the "type."

I am afraid I have not come up with any brilliant insights on how to "deal" with them other than what I would refer to as "benign neglect." Basically, I ignore them unless I feel their words or actions constitute a danger to themselves or others -- in which case I try to take whatever action I can that is most likely to be effective while least likely to prolong my contact with that individual. That is the proverbial "time you never get back." I don't want to lie on my deathbed and wonder why in the heck I spent 200 hours of my life attempting to persuade people who I knew going in were incapable of following a reasoned argument to its logical (and sometimes inevitable) conclusions -- nor would they have any INTEREST in doing so even if they WERE capable.

I don't know if that observation is of any value to the two of you, but I find that it helps me to quickly disengage from interactions that I know going in would be time wasters.

Thanks again!

Good point cztheday.

I agree that there are many people on this site who are either incapable or unwilling to see any other point of view. As easy as it is to poke holes in their weak and often factually incorrect posts, it does become a time suck. For me, it's less about trying to convince them that they are wrong, their egos prevent that, but rather exposing their failed arguments to the other people reading the thread. That and frustrating them...I'll admit that watching these hacks get tied up in knots does have certain entertainment value.

I enjoy reading your posts cztheday...keep up the good work.

Krag:

I'll admit that poking holes in other people's theories is fun, however it's gets to be extremely frustrating. I suppose I should get out of the mentality of convincing people to think differently, because some people just have it stuck in their mentality that they and only they are correct in everything.

I found it easier to ignore these people or limit discussion because I have better things to do than debate semantics and ethics with a person who doesn't have a logical leg to stand on.

I have sincere hopes that people with the aforementioned mentality find breeding difficult because "their partner isn't doing the correct position".

And you're different on that front how?

Don't condemn people for what you yourself do...sir.

I don't state that people shouldn't insult me, do I? I also don't tattle that someone has called me a troll. I did it one time to see if their post would be removed and I don't believe it was...so that was that on that one. But 99% of the time I don't bother reporting any insults to me because I do my fair share.

I don't state that people shouldn't argue with me or tell me I'm wrong.

I do state that people should understand what is going on with what someone else is stating because I DO put forth the effort to do that and I will not be told otherwise because that would be a lie.

As an example I will provide what I see as the argument for the opposite side in this thread:

Certain people want to know the conversation that transpired before the black boy punched the white boy repeatedly in the face. Maybe something was said to provoke the attack. And maybe what was said would clear up that this was not about race and some insult that would be about his clothing....or something that would not fall under race. Maybe the white boy was rude about sitting down in that seat calling him a derogatory name. Whatever it was the blame shifts the unwarranted attacker to what was said prior to the attack...seeing how the attack started a few seconds after he got on the bus what could be said that would provoke such anger would probably make the black boy more stupid than he is just for hitting the white boy over and over and over again in the face. But that is one argument.

The other one is that there is no clear evidence that suggest the attack was about race. According to many it's a boy fight, even though there was no fight it was just a beat down.

It is as if the roles have been reversed and those that use the race card for attacks on black children or the black community in general refuse to think that black people (even the children) can do the same.

The race tension is a problem because liberals have attached such attacks to any disagreement with Obama. They have no backing for that other than seeing it as an attack on a black man. So simple an accusation as YOU LIE has gave the floor to the biggest idiot of the week (Carter) to state that it was made because the Senator is racist. What backing does he have for that accusation? None. Just like liberals have none to state that about many disaggrements with Obama.

Then comes this incident and mainly conservatives are stating that it's a racist attack and it's now the liberals on the defensive against their own logic that they use against conservatives for Obama stating that it's not a racist attack. What is offered to back them?

We just feel that this isn't it, on top of not having adequate evidence to show it is.

And what evidence is needed?

Oh we just know it isn't a racist attack. It doesn't matter that the black boy punched the white boy in the face over and over again like he was some sort of punching bag and it doesn't matter that he bragged about it latter....what matters is I feel it's not racist.

Is that all you have to offer?

Yes.

That is what the other side has to offer. Feelings...the same feelings that they denounce others to have themselves.

I never said I was going to ignore you.

But I did say this:

"...I think it’s pretty clear that J_J isn’t reasonable. He’ll just make more false claims and then declare himself the winner."

You proved me right...as I'm sure you're about to do again.

ignoring people on this site who are simple, blind contrarians is sometimes the best thing to do.

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I was actually trying to make you smarter by stating you'd pick the best thing to do.

But if you'd like to look stupid, by all means....go ahead allow people to see the you everyone should know and not the facade you present in trite comments.

Apparently JJ had trouble grasping the "operative word" - CONSTRUCTIVE. That would tend to follow since most of his argument is usually destructive. The fun part is watching him break his back twisting his himself into a pretzel to oppose every cogent argument he comes across.

Just because you don't get a punch off doesn't mean you weren't in a fight my friend. It just means fighting isn't your forte, to put it kindly. Why take a superfluous aspect of the incident to base your argument on? More importantly why the need to point out "black boy" and "white boy"? That seems to be the key for those that foster the problem instead of supporting a solution.

I made an altruistic effort not to point out any one comment or commenter personally to foster a constructive debate on what can be done to eloquently settle the tensions. I must also admit a more sinister underlying reasoning as well. I knew some of the most egregious offenders (the bigger parts of the problem) couldn't resist finding a way to wax stupid and I wasn't disappointed in either case.

My favorite assertion was racism being caused by liberals defending the President. I'm pretty sure racism was caused by one race enslaving, oppressing &/or attempting to eliminate others. I think the irrational fear of the tables being turned (turnabout is fair play, karma) drives most of the hatred and illogical responses. In any case that is way too much to read in to a simple school boy fight.

Instead of straining for ways to show this was a horrible racist attack try looking for why it is so important for some to prove that was the case. What you seek isn't coming from a speech, police action or political movement. It will come from a mirror, if you are so inclined.

Well said eldamon.

Ever notice how many of your responses are about people, people being wrong or in your words "retarded"? People not seeing things your way(the right way). What "ideas" would you like to express? What about the idea the problem here is internal as in YOU as opposed to external or everyone else.

You're not following what Hillary says....

nor are you being constructive.

I also don't use that word as much as you wish me to. There are lots of words I use off line that I don't post. Would you like a list?

Exactly what is your point? Is your point to insult and have people laugh or help someone alter themselves?

Because if it's the last one I can assure you you're better off never, ever being a counselor for anything or anyone.

You actually made a pretty good point using Hillary's words. The only problem was you seem to think they apply to everyone but you. The beauty of the information age is it creates a record as you go. You chastised someone for being childish and calling names after using the word retarded in one of your retorts.

You aren't interested in being introspective so much as argumentative. It's more important for you to believe you're right or problems are caused by people that do not agree with you than to consider you might actually be adding to the problem instead of the solution. Instead of racking your brain for a snappy reply try, just try considering where you're coming from and why - or don't and complete the circle, again.

Actually, that quote was from Eleanor Roosevelt, not Hillary Clinton.

While many people are debating Ideas and Ideologies, there will always be those who only discuss and attack people.

It doesn't matter who said it, in reality, because they are still smart words and even though Clinton might not have said them first she decided to state them and was smart to do so.

-------------------------
While you sit there and ignore her words, I will tell you I never stated it did not include me.

But to clarify so you're not in the dark ages wasting your brain power talking about me, constantly, I found that because someone else mentioned it in another thread. I thought it was a great thing she said, because I think she's a smart woman even though I might not like her in totality denying how smart she is would be asinine. She is not only smart she is tough and she is willing to be in the political realm where she constantly gets beaten down and rarely gets the praise that everyone wishes to have...the appreciation for her hard work.

I agree with the quote for EVERYONE including myself. I do not exclude myself and it's rather obnoxious and rude of you to suggest otherwise.

Just because I agree with it doesn't mean I am going to drop my sarcasm or anything else...really. Instead I decided that it would be best to focus on the issues of the thread. And since I already do that it's not going to be difficult to put more effort into it.

It would be a smart move to start talking about someone else....or I might have to file a restraining order.

Yeah...I wonder what Eleanor Roosevelt or Hillary Clinton would have to say about someone who uses the slur "retarded".

Forgive me if I have a hard time taking your lecture on civility seriously.

It doesn't matter what I say you'll just find something wrong with it. I figured that out after you second post you addressed to me.

It's panned out that way.

Water off a duck's back.

The picture is quite clear where it shows that it's Roosevelt that said it. The only reason I attributed it to Clinton was because her face is there. She's never really said it. Which doesn't detract from me thinking she's smart.

The saying and photo were used to protest Keith O....on MSNBC for something he said about her during the campaign.

So I was totally wrong about her even using it. Sorry.

JJ, Perhaps you should have said words WE should all follow instead of "Wise words the both of you should follow". That would have jived better with what you claimed to have meant.

It's not like you're heeding it anyway.

Perhaps you should refer to my original response that started this particular thread and your ensuing response before casting dispersion.

Where is the eyes?

You cannot justify the attack any other way than it was because he was white.

If you do you have to explain the excessive force that was used.

Might as well state that Mr. King was not beaten because of race but because he did what the police told them not to.

Because that is in fact what happened. He was told not to sit there. He sat there and he got beat up. He was told by the bag being in the way.

It's a stretch...isn't it? It's offensive that one would take a single incident that a man endured via total brutality by cops and compare it to what this black boy did to the white boy?

It's far too similar in act than it is in results.

The act is someone didn't do what they wanted they beat him down because he was black.

the other is a boy sat where he was not allowed and he was beaten because of it...and the black boy was egged on by other members who were not white to continue the beating.

If Taylor Swift was (so happened to be not possible...but if it were) 50 Cent winning the award that he and Beyonce would be in the same category for...would Kayne West have done what he did? No. Because it's far easier to stomp on a white girl than it is anyone who is black and especially no because 50 Cent would pop him in the face.

You socially pick who you can get away with beating up. It was acceptable, on that bus, for him to beat the white boy because the white boy was in the minority via race and no one stopped him or told him to quit or call 911 or anything like that. They all watched because it was socially acceptable.

The problem will persist if you don't see it.

JJ,

You've got a HUGE chip on your shoulder. I've never tried to defend or justify this brutal attack that these 2 worthless piece of shit boys made on that defenseless kid. Read all of my post on this thread. I said that I felt that it was racially motivated, but that doesn't matter to you, because you are obviously following around everybody that is Black on the thread, prejudging (prejudice) all of us, based on your personal beliefs, thinking that you know how we feel and how we think before you listen to us all individually. Other Black people on this site have viewed their differences with me on this topic and, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO. What you do not have a right to do is to think that all Blacks are the same and we always agree and we all think a like, because we don't. I do not defend ignorance and I don't take shit off of anyone, so shoo fly don't bother me.

You've got some real issues Jammer. You're addicted to this shit.

TAKE A BREAK!!!

I don't have a huge chip.

No one has time to read everything on this thread. But I got my answer anyway because you were smart enough to restate it instead of start off with prejudice you started off with where you stand.

Far better reply than what I normally get from people who can't seem to handle having their selves in a defensive position.

I could tell you all kinds of reason why I have no prejudice that you speak of. I do judge people on a lot of things...not just race. I am very judging person. It's what keeps me safe from the bad people and the users. It is not something I use publicly and share consistently. I keep many comments to myself. No one should share everything they're thinking.

Thank you for you restating what your position is. But you sort of ruined your where is the love moment by not showing any and clearly showing that you should understand exactly where the love is.

"Bielski", this is not just a U.S. problem. In Nigeria the politicians (gangsters) are raping the country and blaming British Colonization, 60 years ago, for the failure of Nigeria to implement a democratic system free of theft, thuggery, and monumental greed and stupidity! One of the biggest oil producers in the World still blames their problems on "white people"! Of course, if not for us, they would be forced to find another scapegoat to blame. When the U.K. or U.S. attempts to prosecute Nigerian politicians for "money laundering", their friends in gov't. immediately close ranks, claiming sovereignity, racism, and "rule of law". This mentality has been imported into America and has infected several generations of both black and white Americans. To the point that our Nation's ideals are compromised by criminals. This may seem off topic. But it directly addresses the apologist mentality of guilty whites and the institutionalised racism of the black politicians and liberal community in general.

I can't even bring myself to tell you how wrong you are.
The fact that you are using this incident and other incidents committed by a small handful of African-Americans as a representation of a whole race, then attempting to validate it based on the stereotypes of Black Culture is not only wrong, it's downright racist thinking itself.

And do you want to know what the REAL problem is?
You probably don't see anything wrong with that completely inaccurate assumption you just made.

No they don't lifestudent and that truly is the problem. but you will never convince them of that and that's why i stopped talking to people like them other than to remind them that we are here and we are not afraid of them and they will not stop progress that our forebears fought and died for. Period.

Robbing someone or asking for money via a gun or aggression is not an example of someone beating someone else up on a bus or any other public area without getting an monetary gain.

I'm waiting for an example of a white person attacking a black person without any gain what-so-ever other than the pleasure of beating someone down (like this instance) and it had NOTHING to do with race.

You don't have one. No one has one.

Which is going to be a fact if you can't give one after me asking this for a third time.

Rather than trying to drag some other incident into this discussion, can you simply show the racial motivation in THIS incident? Very simple question that doesn't require an apples and oranges comparison.

I watched an interesting program last night regarding white undercover policemen. One of the officers posed as a drunk casino patron exiting the casino. He was attacked over 75 times by black muggers, beaten, kicked in the face, and various other assaults, before his support could intervene. Of course these were not race crimes! It just happens that the black criminals chose a white victim, by chance??? Anyone commenting here, that cannot accept that there is a problem in America is in complete denial. That boy on the bus is headed down the same street to prison. Him and his homeboys sit around later that day laughing and joking about him kicking a white boys ass. You know it and I know it, so stop pretending that this is not happening.

There is no other incident, that's why the both of you clam up....you have no backing to show that it is possible to have an attack on another person of a different race for no reason and it be not motivated by race.

You have no proof that it's even REMOTELY possible.

Which leaves us with the black man's default....it's racism.

Moon:

Is it possible that they picked him because he was drunk, and therefore vunerable?

Again, what does that have to do with this particular situation? Absolutely nothing.

Until it is clear beyond a shadow of a doubt this was a racially motivated attack, you cannot prove it was. The lack of evidence supports it was NOT a racially motivated attack. Until there is more proof, alleging this attack was racist is simply opinion and has little to no factual basis.

No it wasn't. This looks like a young punk that decided to commit and aggravated assault and robbery on a public bus in broad daylight.

Don't try to confuse the two.

My home was broken into last year by a group of young Black males. Should that be classified as a racist attack ?

Criminals rob whoever they can.