GOP Health Plan - Don't Get Sick, but if you do, Die Quickly!

which came first the chicken or the egg??

Women need sperm to even get a baby.

So toss your hate of men and try love.

Psalms139:16
Your eyes foresaw my actions; in your book all are written down; my days were shaped, before one came to be.

I don't know where he got embryo, from what version, so many to choose from.

This Psalm is about God's omniscience not about abortion or the life status of the fetus.

Ain't love grand?

Pithy...but accurate! ; )

now the man representing our country inca[able of a complete sentance without a teleprompter, is incapable of uttering a complete senence without... well.... uttering and is a congenial liar.
but hey the Olympics will be in Chi town NOT
Saturn will still make great cars NOT
Improved oujr relations with poland and other "friends by living up to out promise to protect them NOT
hired the most upstanding tax paying individuals for his cabinet NOT
Upheld his campaign promise that afgan is the "good " war and will do what needs to be done for success NOT

wait he has done a very good thing...contributitions to the Special Olympiad bowling team has increased due to his intellect.

cztheday, thanks for your comment. I was trying to formulate an answer earlier and decided against it.

When one talks about how wrong the Bush administration was, it appears as though one is 'picking' on them. Republicans haven't hesitated to tell us to 'get over it', 'move along'. We are supposed to let history be the judge. How convenient. I think they should do the same thing for President Obama, shut the heck up and let history be the judge. That's what we have had to do.

At least he is a pleasant liar. %)

Incredulous,

I am usually not one to pick nit, but if you look at the page to which our esteemed former leader has turned in the picture you so graciously provided, I believe you will see his true purpose. The man STARTED at the end of the book! Admittedly that shortened up his task considerably...

cmdinc,

After reading your response, I heaved a heavy sigh. I mean, half of those allegations are just nonsense. President Obama didn't promise anyone that the Olympics would be in Chicago. He advocated that they be held there. So did I. So did 50 million other Americans. On behalf of all of us I hereby apologize to you and the entire Republican Party that we didn't pull for the non-U.S. locations. How terribly unpatriotic of us...

The decision to pull the missile defense plans for Poland and Czechoslovakia was the correct decision. It was necessitated because Bush et al. had made the incorrect decision in planning to put them there in the first place. Did the Obama team communicate the decision as well as they could have. Perhaps not. Big deal. So long as the proper apologies were made, the important thing is that they got the policy right.

Saturn? Gimme a break. After watching GM disintgrate for the past two decades Republican efforts to lay that bs at Obama's doorstep is nauseatingly hypocritical. His CABINET?! Wow, you guys really DO have short memories, ha ha. Bush's cabinet was a JOKE! One failure after another. Good Lord, how many Treasury Secretaries did that man have? Please tell me you remember the time he tried to appoint Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court. I wouldn't hire Harriet Miers to be my PARALEGAL...and Bush was going to put her on the Supreme Court...

Lastly, President Obama never said anything about the War in Afghanistan being the "good" war. Are you kidding? He said it was the war on which we should have been focused. It was the war Bush should have won five years ago. Instead, he screwed it up so badly that Obama is faced with the decision whether to sacrifice more American lives to clean up yet another byproduct of Republican incompetence. Is there ANYTHING Republicans can do correctly? You know, BESIDES diddling the teenage boys who go to DC to serve as Congressional pages or picking up strange men in the men's room of the Minneapolis Airport?...

You didn't answer the question about change.

You just compared him to the President before and that's not answering jack.

Comparisons are nothing but a waste of time...since they don't do much at all. Though it looks like someone is using reason when they do it...it's just a facade.

OK CZ i accept your apology.
I really don't know if the missle defense was the right decision or not neither do you. I will say if the decisioln was made to not proceed we could have done it in such a way to improve our leverage with Iran. Just like his statement about closing Gitmo there was no plan just a comment to please his freak left. So he made you happy and.............gitmo will not be closed as his word.
If Oblunder would have let the market sort out the GM bullshit pieces would have been sold off. Penske would have bought it back and right now be making a great american product. Instead the WH car Czar ruined the deal by telling the possible purchaser how that purchaser was going to run his company.
Afgan........"the good war" is word speak chain of events that gave title to such. I don't have time to educate you on this, but take my word for it. Oblunder has been in office long enough to make progress as only the gods can do and what has improved NOTHING. Things on the ground are Don't give me crap about Bush mistakes, that time is up. Our heros deaths are on Oblunder now so lets look at his "policy". Since his take over the average deaths per month of our heros have tripled. So lets come up with a plan, i suppose we should talk to the generals to get their input....NOT

I give you credit CZ you have learned the talking points of the freak left very well. Keep up the spin..most here will love you for it.

It's just a lame justification.

And showing things like "OMG they are worse because of this" does not in any way make what he did ok. Nice fake try.

OHNOSE the Right is complaining about Obama giving a speech to the schools. They are so over reacting. This is us forgetting that the left got upset about Bush doing the same thing. Not only did we get upset about it we made it a congressional problem...spent tax payer's money to whine and complain about it...

Double standard.

If it was Bush that was speaking and someone said LIAR you'd back them up no matter when they said it.

Save your falseness for your private time with the mirror in the morning.

Oh sure. Show me the health care that Clinton got passed with a Dem majority. Or how about the health care that Carter got passed with a Dem Majority? Or LBJ? or Kennedy? Or Truman? Your party had its chances and failed to do anything about it. Now you seek to blame the opposition for your party's own failures.

We haven't had a true Democart in the White House since FDR, JFK, and Carter. Clinton was not a true Dem or he wouldn't have bowed to pressure from the Republicans to strip social welfare and make turn it into a practically worhtless assistance to low income single mothers.

I am! I was working on some pretty good insults, but the world will be better served if I keep them to myself, or save them for road rage.

I'm in "WOT" (Waste of Time) and move on from personal attacks. (Can I still be a little sarcastic?)
;-)

Of course, We don't want to be boring. But the hurtful crap has got to stop. That's when the WOT gets used and that person gets ignored until they can add something civilized again. I still intend to convince CZ that I'm an astronaut. He's dumber than a post, he will believe me. ;D

Holy crap! How did I get pulled into this one? And I'll have you know some of the smartest Republicans I know are posts...

So...what does it REALLY feel like to be outside the Earth's gravity, MM?...

Speaking of posts . . . cz's last one put a huge smile on my face!

thank you to all for making me LMAO

and I'm with you Chique...we simply cannot banish sarcasm...it is pure delight at times.

"I'm in", no matter what the ante. I need decent health care insurance at an affordable cost. As the English say: "In for a penny, in for a pound" @ incredulous, if you like the comedy it takes to make witty sarcasm, read my words written all over the article listed as Dennis Miller: "I'm a Palin fan because she irritates just the right people for me" and you'll even read some phrases straight out of the 1950s zeitgeist original enough to be copyrighted. I've certainly never heard them before I orignated them.

It is refreshing to me to see some Democrats grow some cahones. As for me, I stopped giving money to the Party, now if I do donate I donate directly to the individuals who are actually speaking for me and what I want to see happen.

The party as a whole is not yet completely speaking for the people. As far as Obama, I am reserving judgment. I would like to believe in the change he has offered, I understand that their are political complexities at work that he cannot change, unless he had support of at least half of both houses to completely reform campaign financing. (Corporate personhood and unlimited donations should be banned with regard to campaigns. They should not be allowed a voice that supercedes or is even on the same par as a flesh and blood human being. If that were changed, that would do a lot to level the political playing field.)

@ Jubal. See the Current.com article listed recently regarding the "Personhood" of Corporations, specificaly how they got it. Your key to understanding exactly how they acquired it is indicated in White Noise' commentary expanding on the Historical legal origin of this term. As I understood what happened from reading between the lines, the Corporation embroiled in a court case had one of their agerts bribe the court reporter to commit Felony Forgery and alter the wording of the court ruling to claim that a Corporation is defined a person whom under the 14th Amendment is entitled to equal Justice and equal protection of the laws of the State as every person is a citizen of the United States and of the State in which they reside. The true Historical context of the 14th Amendment which was enacted after the civil war was to level the playing field for AfricanAmerican citizens who were recently liberated
from Slavery. Since the Corporations' evil attitude is that they can dominate their markets to maximize and control their profits, then every citizen & small business is someone/something they can own as their property. Property can't own property as they ruled in the Dred Scott case before the civil war. Obviously the laws are something the corporations think are written on their toilet paper. They realized that Courts
predicate future rulings based on past ones relating to the legal issue at hand. One of the factors that make law predictable. (I'm a 4.0 law student grad of the Paralegal Institute, so I study this stuff) After the
original court never caught the crooked entry, every other court began to follow it, as the Corporations began to cite it in future cases until even the State of New York was conned into enacting that fraudulent forged misrepresentation into our legal code. In this way, the Corporations were able to twist the legal basis to outlaw Discrimination into promoting it. As we used to say in the days of VietNam when B52s would
carpet bomb Cambodia, another cluster fuck.

From your lips . . .

I am talking about what they are saying not who they are. I am talking about the democrat party and Congressman Grayson because that is what this topic the we, everybody here besides you, is talking about. You have not contributed one word towards this topic. Icredulous you have just come on to this thread to insult me and attack me personally. Why are you on this thread if you are not going to contribute anything at all to this conversation?

I actually have an interview with Fox news next week

sharpening my survival skills

I agree that it is perfectly fine to be scathing against policies, organizations and laws, but directing personal comments towards those expressing their support of the issues we dislike is crossing the line.

I will be watching you who decided to state that out loud here.

I don't believe any of you will stick to it....but I'll hold on to that thought until a month or so passes without a single comment that is an insult is used.

It's a noble goal, I just don't buy it.

and I will be watching you Jammer!

J_Jammer, just stick to the topic, whatever it is when you say something in here. You have no control over what other people do, except for to Flag a post and bring it to the attention of Current. I read your posts I think think you could do better for yourself by cutting the size of many of your posts by 1/3 to 1/2. I mean this with all sincerity. I am sometimes tempted to back you up because you do at times have some valid point, but you seem to add an insult or some sort of attack along with your point of view. I know it is hard not to respond in kind when you are personally insulted here. If you look at many of my posts, you will see the replies to many things I say about a topic are personal attacks against me. J_Jammer, just worry about YOU.

I know what I do.

I also know I don't pretend to be for something when my post surely don't back that up.

I am licensed to sell Health Insurance, and I have provided a few policies, but it is not my main source of income. I do in fact have to have insurance, Errors and Omissions, to cover any lawsuits against me in the act of selling health insurance. NO matter what Bill passes or does not pass, I will be fine as far as my career goes.

I'm glad for you.

@mjsmith11, I think you might misunderstand about the 2% thing.

They aren't saying that its 2% of the Doctors costs. Malpractice insurance is much higher well into the double digits. The malpractice insurance industry has been terrorizing doctors into paying the high premiums.

I know about this because recently my father was exploring suing a doctor who he felt had wronged him. The attorney gave us a document that stated statistics about medical malpractice lawsuits. in 2005 less than 10% of the cases actually made it to court and/or reached settlement. Most of the cases were either without merit or died for lack of funds to prosecute the suits. But the reality is that Insurance companies do not have the basis they claim to charge such exorbitant malpractice insurance premiums.

Malpractice payouts and jury awards amount to 2% of the total cost of healthcare when taking into consideration the whole nation. But the premiums that health care providers pay is a huge portion of their cost to practice in their field of medicine.

This is what needs reform along with TORT reform. There is enough case law and compensatory history to arrive at fair and equitable standards for valuing claims and the whole process could be streamlined. What people fear with government run insurance is that "You can't bring suit on the government." But if there were provisions in the reform to handle claims for negligence and malpractice that is fair to the consumers, I think that would remove much of the fear around that particular issue.

Very well put Jubal. Theoretically - If I have to have my left foot amputated and by accident or negligence my right foot is amputated instead. Now I will have no feet. What do I deserve? $1 Million? $100 Million? How much money in future income will I lose because of this mistake? $100,000 $40,000, or maybe nothing. How much money will my lawyer try to get the Doctor and Hospital to pay for cutting off the wrong foot? What if the foot was cut of under the Government run Health Care system, how much could I expect to receive in compensation? We do need Tort reform and we also need to make sure that victims that suffer due to negligence are fairly compensated. Getting rid of the small percentage of lousy Doctors that make up the largest malpractice risk might be an idea worth looking into also.

I am hope you flag some of your comments.

Especially some of the ones of those two that have recommended this comment.

You three have done more than your fair share of what you're claiming is so wrong.

Maybe I need to go screen shot a lot of things since there's a lot of people thinking they are untouched by their denouncing of certain conduct they have had their little typing fingers in.

Jammer--as I said before, follow yourself around for a day...you are constantly fighting with other people on this site, degrading their comments and attacking them personally.

Go to Fox news blog. They will agree with you and you will be validated without uselessly expending all of the energy you do here.

Go green. Save the environment, plant a weed on Fox news blog.

What do you call what you're doing?

it's surely not uplifting.

it's called mirroring Jammer, and it actually is a mediating technique

Don't justify your anger with a weak excuse.

If a comment is removed from Current, it is because it violates our Community Guidelines, which you agree to when you sign up for the site. It has nothing to do with any political ideology or position. There are plenty of ways to express one’s views without resorting to name calling, personal attacks, or other behavior that will result in your comment being removed.

Steph
Online Community Team

clay.

There was never two-sides with Current staff, they are always fair balanced with their rules, if you believe so much that they are opposing you, just because you think they aren't abiding to your views, then you must have a problem being fair and balanced...

Nah Clay, I've been flagged and had comments removed and pretty much every time I deserved it. It has nothing to do with a party, only how you treat other users.

Yeah, I have been flagged three times, had all three removed, and deserved it every time (but that last one felt REALLY good as long as it was up....hee hee)...

Oh...you've recommended vicious comments, ma'am.

I think I should screen shot all of them and show you so you can have some crow.

IE. Something about a hemroid.

As far as I can see this article has nothing to do with that at all and yet that comment was made.

Then there's this angelic stance of heroic measure you post and it's amazing difference in words, but not tone.

I'd ask for an explanation, but that's like asking a serial killer why they do what they do....totally dismissing the possibility that they just love watching people suffer.

I'm reminded of do as they say not as they do comment...there's a lot of that going on around here.

It wasn't at all attention grabbing to make BIG boards for few words.

hahaha....sure.

yeah...and then they show up on current...go figure

Just because something is a law doesn't mean it's right nor does it mean it's looking out for the best interest of anyone.

i guess cause you proclaim it it is so jubal. A baby gets oxygen from its mother so it is Breathing

I understand that the baby gets oxygen from the mother through the umbilical cord.

My point is this, Since the majority of Anti Abortion advocates do so on religious grounds, I make this statement. Their sacred book, the bible, gives an account of the creation of man in it in the chapter of Genesis. In it the story states that Adam became a living sould when God breathed the breath of life into him. Up to that moment Adam was merely a lump of clay.

Based on that story, one could easily infer that God considered him to be a living soul once he had taken that breath of life that was breathed into him. The same could be extended to a fetus in the womb. It isn't a living soul until it has had the breath of life breathed into him/her.

But on an ethical level, I completely agree that the choice belongs to the mother. However, I strongly disagree and condemn those who use abortion as birth control. That is just plaing lazy and a rotten excuse. There are so many ways to control birth. Abortion should be used for those oops the condom broke, or the birth control pill didn't work, or the implant stopped working, or the IUD didn't work. It is a backup to a program of birth control (if you are not morally, psychologically, and financially capable of supporting that child).

Do you understand my position better? Does it make you think any different?

OK Jubal, i understand better your view. We actually have some common ground. I was a little taken back by the comment about "a piece of meat"but i think you were using it to stress a point.

Psalms 139:16 - Your eyes saw even the embryo of me,
And in your book all its parts were down in writing,
As regards the days when they were formed
And there was not yet one among them.

My bible reads this way, I don't know what version of the bible you got embryo.

Psalms 139:16
Your eyes foresaw my actions; in your book all are written down; my days were shaped, before one came to be.

Same difference.

God sees the unborn as living and breathing.

I didn't read anything there about breath.

Admitting you're wrong in this would be impossible, so I don't expect it ....EVER.

"Before one came to be" can't happen if one isn't anything to begin with.

Let alone the fact that there was a law that charged someone with a murder should they hit a pregnant woman and she ends up losing the baby.

So if God didn't think the baby was alive or breathing until out birth that wouldn't be a charge.

It's pretty sad when you suggest he would think otherwise.

First of all Jammer, I concede that perhaps that was the intent of the writer of that Psalm to suggest that God knows a person before they are born. You are the one interpreting the meaning to suggest that God hates abortion.

However that person who wrote that Psalm could not possibly speak for God. He was a man like you and me and was stating his beliefs, which in many cases, when referring to the bible, the writers and people who follow it swear that it is the word of God. But again they are beliefs, like my belief that a fetus is not a human being until it takes a breath. I clarified my beliefs in a response earlier to someone else.

But you should know by now that I don't believe in the Bible as an authority in my life, I do refer to it, because other people do.

Its my fault for even quoting it in the first place, because it is a document that can be manipulated through translations to say anything a person wants it to say.

You are engaging in an age old philosophical debate about existence and free will. I took philosophy in college, we engaged in these debates about morality, free will, predestination, fate, and divinity. When I took those classes I was still clinging to some JudeoChristian beliefs, but thank god I have been purged of them now. I don't try to see the world through rose colored glasses anymore, and certainly I do not see the world and morality as black and white.

Also you are a male person, at least that is how you present yourself here on Current. What do you really care if a woman has an abortion or not? You, if you really are a man, are not going to be having a baby EVER. So by what right or authority do you claim to deny abortion to a woman? You cannot even claim to have walked in a woman's shoes for one day; and I am not talking about walking in their shoes in some transvestite manner, I am talking about walking in their shoes as to the experience of being a woman and having to make such a difficult and painful decision as to abort your fetus.

Men have no right to dictate what a woman should do with their bodies, unless there is a marriage contract, and then the woman should have consulted with her husband before aborting, because of the marriage contract, not because he has some authority to decide for her.

I would avoid arguing about the Bible too...especially when reminded of that defining law...that certainly backs what I stated.

I would also suggest that you don't use what you don't understand against people who do use it for their beliefs. At least use it right.

How could you state that God wouldn't mind abortions? How is that loving?

There are many people that could have been aborted but where not like George Carlin.

Such a trite and absurd argument to use "It's her body" well if it's her body then it's her fault she got pregnant. Not only that but child support shouldn't happen. She created him/her by herself she can raise him/her by herself. She also shouldn't cry when she does do it because it can't be an emotional thing since she's just pushing out cells.

Suck it up women....take it like a pro.

Jammer, what you fail to realize in your black and white world is that I do understand the bible. The Psalms are not laws, they are poetry written primarily by King David. Don't lecture me on the bible. I know it much better than you do. I have studied that document from the perspective of at least 5 Christian denominations; Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Evangelical, Jehovah's Witness and Gnostic. So spare me the platitudes.

In your response to me you fail to recognize pregnancy resulting from rape or incest or when the mother's life is in danger. Again here is your diametric reasoning. You argue extremes rather than recognizing that the real world is not that way, there are a million shades of gray.

The rest of the comment is not even worth addressing, it is so NOT LOVING.

WOT

It's not worth addressing because you cant' defend against it. Love has nothing to do with it. If love did abortions wouldn't exist.

No one say Psalms were laws. They are truth to what God sees. There is also a law, already stated, that you didn't address...yet again.

You are speaking about extremes and then you mention rape? haha...that, as well as woman endangerment, are rare.

Extremes.....

Two more cents here . . .

There are other reasons a woman may want to terminate a pregnancy other than rape, incest or pregnancy of a child.

Among others, there is a birth defect called Anencephaly. It is a cephalic disorder that results from a neural tube defect that occurs when the cephalic (head) end of the neural tube fails to close, usually between the 23rd and 26th day of pregnancy, resulting in the absence of a major portion of the brain, skull, and scalp. Infants with this disorder are born without a forebrain - the largest part of the brain consisting mainly of the cerebrum - which is responsible for thinking and coordination. The remaining brain tissue is often exposed - not covered by bone or skin.

Infants born with anencephaly are usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brainstem, which controls autonomic and regulatory function, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as respiration (breathing) and responses to sound or touch may occur. The disorder is one of the most common disorders of the fetal central nervous system.

There is no cure or standard treatment for anencephaly and the prognosis for affected individuals is poor. Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth and it can be detected early on in gestation. The family must make a decision when this is diagnosed. I know a couple that went through this with their first child. They had dated since high school, through college and were married a number of years before deciding to begin their family. In cases like this it is catastrophic for couples who must decide between early termination, or continuing the pregnancy and delivering a dead child, or delivering the child live and watching it die within hours or a few days.

The point to be made here is that termination is an extremely personal decision in many cases and no one, especially the government should dictate to any family. It was no different with Terry Schiavo.

Having said this, I believe that most people that are pro-choice find it deplorable and totally irresponsible as a birth control alternative. They just don't want the government making these choices.