Brutal gay bashing caught on tape

By their dress the attackers don't look like Limbaugh fans, more like hip hoppers.

"nonsensical"? I'm sorry, and you have a right to your opinion, but I must disagree. Attacking someone because of thier race, gender, or orientation is different from attacking them at random, or because you hate them personally. While the outcome of a beating is most often the same (injuries, mental bruises), though to varying degrees, the motivation BEHIND said beating is what matters, and is as important as the fact that they attacked the person in the first place. These guys are intolerant sickos, and deserve a harsher punishment than regular thugs.

Why does the motivation matter? Will there be greed crimes in the future? or jealousy crimes? hunger crimes? or "it seemed like the right thing to do at the time" crimes? Also taking hate crimes to the logical next step ends in absurdity, Why did these people hate gays? I am going to take a leap and say it was out of ignorance. So should we not have ignorance crimes? After all, I think you would agree that ignorance breeds hate. Also, do you agree that is ridiculous to punish people for something they were ignorant about? These men were ignorant in their views about gays, but they were not ignorant in the fact that beating someone up was a crime. So I think it is only fair to punish them for the crime they intentionally committed.

All crimes are "ignorance crimes" because the person committing the crime must be ignorant to some extent.
Just as you are ignorant to the situation that hate crimes ARE different from petty crimes, simply because a hate crime is prejudicially or racially driven for the mere pleasure of showing hate towards someone. Petty crimes like theft and muggings, or in your case a high school beatdown, are not hate crimes those are random acts of violence.
Imagine yourself getting beat up over the fact that someone saw your wallet, so they just kicked your ass to take the money. Now imagine yourself getting beat up just because you are gay, or black, or fat and they don't even bother to take your wallet just spit on you while you lay unconscious bleeding. Thats a hate crime.

FishaHouse777,

"All crimes are "ignorance crimes" because the person committing the crime must be ignorant to some extent."

That is my point. Why not throw in a ignorant charge along with a hate charge, and then charge them for the actual crime. These guys, as ignorant or hateful as they might be, are going to get two different charges for the same crime. That is unjust. I don't mind the judge deferring some of there time if they take diversity training, but to throw on another charge is ABSURD.

You differentiated against random acts of violence and "hate crimes," and the concepts are not something I am ignorant of. To use your last examples, the crime in both situation is assault (save the first one had theft). In order for their to be a hate crime, you have to make the choice that something the attacker merely thinks or believes is a crime. In that case they are being punished for their thoughts. Do you not see any problems with persecuting a person because of what they believe or think?

The law does not recognize ignorance as an excuse. The law is the law, and if you violate it, you are going to be prosecuted.

Also, a medically induced coma is done to reduce pressure on the brain to prevent brain damage due to increased pressure, which can quickly kill or permanently damage the brain. It is a treatment done in serious cases where other treatments have failed.

Just because other attacks occur is no excuse for these guys to get off the hook. That's kind of like the time I tried to get off being punished by telling my dad, "But everybody's doing it". He responded that "you're not everybody" and whipped my butt anyway. Same principle here, a crime is a crime, and the number of other similar crimes does not excuse it being repeated.

If you've been the victim of a beating you should know the results can be horrific, and can often be permanent, scarring or affecting the victim for life.

That's why assault is a felony which can be punished in some states by as much as ten years in prison.

Well deserved, I'd say. If they tack on the "hate crimes" addition, I'd hate to be these guys once they get in, they'll be targets for sure!

rwahrens,

"Also, a medically induced coma is done to reduce pressure on the brain to prevent brain damage due to increased pressure, which can quickly kill or permanently damage the brain. It is a treatment done in serious cases where other treatments have failed."

Just wanted to say you were right. Also I read on fox (of all places) about the seriousness of his wounds. Just being fair on that front.

I agree that the law is the law. I just don't agree that it is constitutional to make a law that turns thoughts into crimes.

After I was jumped, all I could think about was revenge, I wanted to kill the people who jumped me. Reflecting on it now, I forgive them, and understand what may have drove them to commit such a crime. These are young kids, only 21. I can understand the pressures they must be under and the misgivings they have about masculinity. They are confused. They deserve to tried for their crime, but the more we punish them and the longer we keep them locked up, the more they will harbor hate and contempt, and the harder it will be for them to turn into productive adults.

Everybody does terrible things for terrible reasons, that does not make them any less human. It is disturbing how fast people turn into the same hateful monsters they are condemning. Just look at the comments for this story.

"I just don't agree that it is constitutional to make a law that turns thoughts into crimes. "

It doesn't. Once that thought of hate is translated into ACTION, it becomes illegal. Motive is plenty of reason to add charges to prosecution, as it can be proven.

The suspects made anti-gay statements. THAT proves the motive. They picked up his wallet off the street, walked back to him and gave it back - that DISproves robbery as a motive.

Certain crimes are treated as "hate crimes" because the nature of the crime implies that an individual is a greater threat to society than a person committing a random act of violence. Harsher punishments are imposed because if an individual attacks a person, as in this case, for their sexual orientation one can assume that if the same individual is placed around other homosexuals they will attack them as well. No one is prosecuting a "thought crime" as the individuals in the video were free to hate the guy they were beating. When one attacks someone, that changes things. Hate crime laws are far from absurd as they are designed to protect society from individuals who are willing to attack certain populations despite being unprovoked. A crime is a crime...but properly addressing the motive prevents the repeating of the crime.

I believe I had already addressed all of your concerns but to recap my argument:

Motives are thought processes.

Hate can be a motive.

Therefore, when hate is a motive, hate is also a thought process.

Therefore, to make the motive of hate a crime, you are making a thought process a crime.

The only other thing I want to do is bring humanity to these two guys. Again, they are young and have a lot of learning ahead. It was most likely a random act of violence to profess their masculinity and a gay guy seemed like an easy target. I know they are adults, but if you are older like me, then you too know that you do a lot of growing and wising up after 21. So please don't show them the same hate they showed that poor fellow. Who are we to say they deserve this, or they deserve that?

"Therefore, to make the motive of hate a crime, you are making a thought process a crime."

No, because of that were true, you'd have to have a way to prove a thought, so you could prosecute PRIOR to any action.

Instead, prosecution cannot take place until that thought has been translated into ACTION. It is the egregiousness of the motivation of hate that makes the punishment greater, as the crime is worse than the same action motivated by mere greed, as in robbery. But still, prosecution CANNOT take place until action has been taken as a result of the thought.

Same thing with murder. Premeditated murder is first degree, punishable by greater sentences. It can be proven by actions taken that show that the intention was there prior to the action being initiated.

A hate crime can by proven by statements made by the suspect either prior to the action, or during the action, showing a motivation of hate vs. one of greed, as in robbery. But, as with murder, prosecution cannot take place until the action is taken to carry out the thought.

See the difference?

It isn't the thought that is illegal, it is the action motivated by the thought. You are free to hate all you wish, you just cannot translate that hate into illegal action.

It is terrible that it happens here, yes, but I am sure it also takes place everywhere else. Intolerance is pretty widespread.

nice???

A crime is a crime. They should be punished for assault and battery. A hate crime is a thought crime, which I believe is absurd. A person should be able to think and believe what they want, in fact some might say it is a constitutional right. Hate may be a motive in most violent crimes, but I don't think it should be labeled a crime. Should I be punished with a hate crime when I hate my neighbor of the same sex and ethnicity for having a better garden than me, when I trespass into his yard and uproot and destroy his garden? What if I yell anti-botanist slogans while I am doing it and loudly declare my hate for his gardening skills? Should it be a hate crime when a young man beats up another man because he hates the sports team that is on his shirt? Is it a hate crime when I jaywalk, because I hate the jaywalking law, and frankly I don't like the officer who gave me a ticket for it last week? The whole notion of a hate crime is absurd! To make matters worse if I were to assault a gay person for something unrelated to his gender, (he stole from me, i didn't like the team on his shirt, he was spreading lies about me, etc...) but in anger called him a fag as we were fighting, it would be considered a hate crime. Hate crime laws need to be abolished!

They were yelling anti-gay slurs at him, says the victim. An investigation and trial will tell.