House health bill likely to include public option

John Goodman is an Anarcho-Capitalist employed by the insurance industry, should we be surprised he's against policy that will inevitably injure his employer and take power away from corrupt corporations?

First I have to be unsettled. You stating otherwise means nothing.

I know a lot of good people who turned bad. Does that mean that I should still like them even though they murdered their father-in-law?

Past good does not absolve the present badness.

And if you're so into Government being perfect enough to run health care let them deal with issues that unions deal with-with laws. Screw unions and their in ability to be useful any more.

It's time to reform them.

that is true.

As you see the numbers I did work with is as good as I really get with numbers. That would make the cost rise to probably more like $350 a month.

I wonder how many people just want to pay for mine. I don't feel like it. who'll pick up that tab?

haha....those who pay taxes do support those that don't.

It's actually 2,500 for each car no wonder we can't compete!

They do not "tack on" anything for healthcare. When the auto Union negotiates a contract...the company does not pay for the employees Health Benfits. It is a part of the WAGE package, and they put a large portion of that into their OWN Health Care. If the UAW reduced their total wages by 50% it would save the average car buyer $500 per car. The UAW is not the reason GM and Ford and the like could not compete.

they sure are one of the reasons hammy. Average salary for a UAW worker is $60,000. Average american worker is $36,000. How are they more skilled than the rest of us? I certainly do not blame the individual, they are getting everything they can. I balme unions in general, they are just another layer in corruption

Average salary for a GM Executive is how much? You think they "earned" their money while the guy on the Assembly line deserves 100-300 TIMES less money? It is not Unions that are corrupt, there would be no need for Unions if companies like Wal-Mart (which makes 3.5 billion in PROFITS a quarter) would pay their employees a decent wage.

You want to end Union Corruprtion...tell executives, and shareholders (Incidentally shareholders contribute NOTHING to a company) not be such greedy assholes.

Yes they are corrupt.

Honda and Toyota don't have unions, their employees are just fine and they have not gone under in America.

It might not be that they are the only problem, but they are part of the problem. Yes execs shouldn't be paid bundles upon bundles but they are the reason the company wins or fails as is union use. Unions, 95% of the time, serve no use just like Homeowners Associations. They just take money.

JJ why would they need unions at toyota or honda they have socialized medical as a country and on average Japanese CEO's only make 8 times as much as the lowest paid employee. If you can't understand that and why in this country we have had the need for unions just to secure medical benefits. Man sometimes I think you know nothing. this is such a blatant misunderstanding by you and anyone else that thinks the playing field is even as either stupid or just don't care!

IN AMERICA.

This has nothing to do with what they are doing in Japan.

JJ then why did you bring toyota and honda up, was that a slip on your part. If not then it should be obvious to everyone if we had a national health plan we would be able to compete in everything whats wrong with that the single biggest shot in the arm for our economy unless you truly want AMERICA to fail!

They have plants in America that have not failed for the reasons mentioned.

The assembly plants in the US by Toyota and Honda, those vehicles are actually ENDORSED by the UAW as vehicles one can safely buy them without screwing American auto workers.

The reason is that Toyota and Honda pay nearly the EXACT same wage scale as the UAW gets. So no, Toyota and Honda are not doing better because they are not Union...they are doing better because they produce a better, cheaper product while paying the SAME pay and benefits scale.

Do some research before you mouth off JJammer. If Unions are "bad" so are corporations. Because all a UNION is, is a "corporate" body of WORKERS. There is NO difference.

LABOR PRODUCES ALL WEALTH.

well said hammywill, and when you think about a UNION is as close to having a democracy in the work place, why wouldn't we all want a democracy in the work place and everyone would reap the rewards. JJ I am amazed you know nothing about the history of the american unions. Do you really hate America that much and union workers and the middle class!

History of them has nothing to do with what they are now. Don't BS me.

And Toyota and Honda have NOTHING to pass onto the costumers because of how much Unions cost.

Speaking of unions...do tell me if they are all good how does one fire a Teacher? Teachers that touch children or teachers who sleep with students...who gets rid of them? Why does it take so long?

Don't worry I have an answer to your all unions are good crap.

Like your weekends? UNION people DIED for you to have it.

Like your 8 hour day? UNION people DIED for YOU to have it.

Like your benefits? UNION people DIED for YOU to have them.

It does NOT take long to fire a teacher who has molested children. That is the stupidest, most ignorant thing I have EVER heard. Toyota and Honda plants in the US pay UNION SCALE WAGES! So it is not the UNION costs that drive GM out of business because the labor cost is the SAME. You have NO idea what you are talking about JJammer.

It does take long. Teacher Unions make it very difficult to fire a teacher no matter what they have done. They treat it as an accusation and they look into it.

For someone that knows everything about unions why don't you know the dark side?

As for infiltrating this conversation with past good...that doesn't make them good now. That makes them pats their usefulness.

Seriously? They have the same thing in the Criminal Justice System. It is called the presumption of innocence. Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. If a teacher is accused, or charges are brought..they are not kept in a TEACHING position, they are on leave pending the outcome. And IF they are convicted, they are fired. If they are NOT then a Civil investigation is done to determine whether the person should still teach.

If waiting to see if a person is ACTUALLY guilty before punishing them is a BAD thing, then I guess the Teachers Union is evil. Can you cite an instance in which a teacher was CONVICTED of molestation and the Teacher's Union defended the teacher, insisting they be allowed to continue teaching?

they could have blood on their hands and said they did it and the Union would still be slow to act.

Pick any incident in the past and look it up and see how not right you are.

The other problem is that THEY ARE NOT ON THE GROUNDS. The principle is. They should have the ability to fire who they want and then the Union deals with it. But they can't. The union who isn't there and doesn't know what is going on decides if one should be fired.

Fair? ha.

They are not worth the money it cost to be in one. They decide when to go on strike and if you don't strike with them you're bad. They are not healthy for anyone when they are greedy. Wanting what's fair..psh.

The only unions that are still good are the acting union and writing guild.

How long did it take the Auto unions to compromise to make it where the business could function this year? Too long. Even though I still think the auto industry should have been allowed to FAIL big time. If unions are so good then failure shouldn't surround them now days.

The Auto Unions had no effect on whether the Auto Industry could make it. That assertion is not based on any facts.

So, since you made the assertion, you provide the evidence. Cite a source in which a Union Defended the job of a convicted killer or molester.

Bullshit Hammy,
I havn't had an 8 hour day since i started my own business, nor a weekend off. And guess what, if one of my employess fucks up and causes damage to a clients property, i fi...ng pay for it, but he gets his check every week.
Don't give me the bullshit about unions dying for the 8 hour day etc.
Labor produces all wealth my ass. My wealth came from my own ass aches, no one elses. Try being the one who takes the risk, risking EVERYTHING. you really have aggrevated me so just shut the hell up.

Right, your wealth came from your LABOR! I never said if you take a risk you should not be paid for it. Did !? When did I endorse that? I am saying executive pay that is on AVERAGE 500 times higher than the LABORER who produces all the wealth is ridiculous and THEFT.

You bring your "capital" and your "ideas" and "risk" I will bring Labor...let's see which one produces more...sound like a plan? THINK about what you are saying and try to use some logic. I NEVER once said executives don't deserve higher pay...I never ONCE said that YOU as a business owner who took all the risk should not enjoy compensation...did I? Try to be rational.

http://www.edutopia.org/poll-tenure

I'm not the only one that says it's difficult.

OHNOSE what did this Principal say?

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers3-2009may03,0,679507.story

Joseph Walker, former principal of Grant High School in Van Nuys, says that because of the uphill battles that administrators face in terminating teachers: "You'’re not going to fire someone who's not doing their job. And if you have someone who'’s done something really egregious, there's only a 50-50 chance that you can fire them"

Egregious: extraordinary in some bad way.

http://theamericanscene.com/2009/05/06/awful-teachers-awfully-hard-to-fire

Oh no more stating how hard it is to fire teachers. No way.

-------
....L.A. Unified officials were also unsuccessful in firing a male middle school teacher spotted lying on top of a female colleague in the metal shop, saying the district did not prove that the two were having sex.

The district fared no better in its case against elementary school special education teacher Gloria Hsi, despite allegations that included poor judgment, failing to report child abuse, yelling at and insulting children, planning lessons inadequately and failing to supervise her class.

Not a single charge was upheld. The commission found the school's evaluators were unqualified because they did not have special education training. Moreover, it said they went to the class at especially difficult periods and didn't stay long enough.
-------------
http://reason.com/blog/2009/05/04/the-difficulty-of-firing-teach

Now I given you proof. Funny that you ask for it but did not give it when you were saying all these things about unions. Don't ask for proof when you can't do it yourself.

And don't doubt me when I say i know what I'm taking about.

You're right JJammer....thank you for citing those examples. We should abolish all Unions and make them illegal.

i can only be rational w/ rational people.
"You bring your "capital" and your "ideas" and "risk" I will bring Labor...let's see which one produces more...sound like a plan? " wtf
no, i don't need your labor. I can sell my service without you. Could i sell more product? yes but not proportional. It should be if i double my woirkforce i double my sales, that is not the case, i only get about 80% for your labor. Why? mostly your labor comes with a hint of entitlement, and to put it point blank you don't give a shit.

You're right, I don't give a shit.

Yes we should because that's exactly what was suggested.

Don't have wounded pride too often, it ruins discourse.

Well done all the way around!

As will we.

kinda catch 22 if it does include on it's DOA

We can only hope. Time to hold the feet to the people's fire, not the corporation's fire.

That , is a no brainer , friend .

No one is expecting you to pay for it, unless you buy it.

Any public insurance plan will be funded solely from it's own premiums. Any many health care economists believe a public plan is one of the best ways to drive down costs for everyone.

That's why we need single payer. We get to chose what we want and we can make sure it will be covered. What we want is going to be the best.

Couldn't agree more!

agreed aswell.

Moore is not a good point to make.

Tell me who has a job not to make money. Doctors go to school for up to 12 YEARS. Tell me they don't deserve to earn six digits.

brit50, listen to the interview with Dr. Wallach posted below. There is a lot of waste in the present system. It is based on poisoned DRUGS. Bad and good in the system but a lot of waste and little compassion. It manages the symptoms but does not cure the disease.

Thanks for the blast from the past. Won't matter to these guys, both are senior citizens now.
Grace is selling her art work in the hills of California. She doesn't need the government help for her health care!
Besides a bunch of rich, druggies from the sixties don't care what the government does to or for us peons that bought their music.
But Grace is still one of the only female vocalist in rock/pop music that has a distinctive sound. You will always hear her vocals in any tract she's on.