A bitter rift divides Atheists! We are all is the midst of a massive SCHISM!!! (apparently!)

Agree with every part except the last part.

Hate speech IS protected speech, by definition.

Some people, like fundies or Nazis, DESERVE hate and scorn.

And if you criminalize it, all you do is give an arbitrary state power (who could be a fundy) to prosecute people for saying things that could very well be true while other spout blatant hate speech and walk away without a care in the world.

There's no good definition to be set on and the only speech that should be prosecuted is speech that has literally, directly and unambiguously caused damage. I.E. telling an angry mob to kill people etc.

It's important too, because it becomes a slippery slope.

It's not really an impressive feat that you don't care, at best it's a shallow misappropriation of the rarity and value of your intellect and education and at worse it's just bitter misanthropy.

People of faith are human beings too and demeaning them for their stupid superstitions is like kicking a puppy for peeing on the carpet.

They just don't get it and they can be taught if you can show them the way. And the stubborn ones can just be ignored and ridiculed without making your philosophy look as obnoxious as their cult.

But shitting all over them doesn't accomplish anything. At the very least you have to get along with them to function in daily life.

And, really, in the end, is it their religiosity that bugs you or the fact their religion makes them dicks? If it wasn't that way and they thought rationally, like most of religious friends do, would it really be something that bugged you so much as to fuck with them because of it?

We all believe or have believed in dumb shit and replacing discourse with snark doesn't fix that.

While supporting their right to believe strongly in something you are also diminishing ours. This sort of talk is akin to inflicting a Don't Ask Don't Tell policy on ourselves. Their religion is wrong, dead wrong, and in the course of debate if we must offend them by simply pointing out how hateful and absurd it is then that is what we should do. You might have very liberal christian friends but moderates and fundamentalists consider you an obnoxious dick for even wanting the ability to vote in their country.

As for the art though I agree it doesn't make the most persuasive case but thats not what its for, its an artistic release for those of us surrounded by all sorts of religious works day in and day out, hell even apparently one of our supreme court justices thinks that the cross is a simple non-religious symbol for all americans and therefor not offensive to anyone. We live in their world, the art does what all art does, helps the artist and viewers to imagine an alternative world as a bit of relief. The pieces of art aren't specifically attacking christians, they're attacking christ, there's a big difference.

Think back to how terribly offensive those demonic atheist billboards were that stated "You don't need to believe in a god to be a moral or ethical person" "Being a good person doesn't require a god" and even the TERRIBLY degrading "Imagine no religions" billboard that was taken down by the local city because it was too inflammatory. Those terrible affronts to christians everywhere had people up in arms demanding that we not be given any sort of freedom of expression when we were simply trying to not hide anymore meanwhile they can get away with billboards such as "Why do Atheists Hate America?" (ingodwetrustusa.org).

Every cause needs at least a few willing to push the envelope.

I do agree to a certain extent. It amazes me that people vote atheists the most untrustworthy group in America. Hell papa Bush even went so far as to say that atheists shouldnt be considered citizens.

But coming from the most feared and distrusted group, it pays a little to be polite and friendly to religious folk, so long as they are deserving of that respect of course. If someone gives me a funny face after i claim to be an atheist i tend to get a little pissed off.

Honestly though its really depressing that the US is so full of believers. The fact that more than 1/2 of Americans don't "believe" in evolution is so shameful.

Another interesting thought: why is it acceptable in our culture to have sunday schools where they teach kids to ignore knowledge while a weekend school teaching our young children how to avoid and expose religious dogma would never get working permits.

Edit: I'd say I just realllly need to get outta the south but when someone votes according to the bible down here it effects all Americans.

You're right in a moral sense, but not in a practical sense.

You should be nice to people of faith (who aren't dicks) because from a pragmatic perspective you're never going to get their approval any other way.

Offending religious people further alienates you, so you should be open but not offensive about your beliefs. Say "I don't believe in god" instead of "I don't consider the primitive notion of your invisible sky-daddy even remotely plausible."

It doesn't take that much extra effort, and you're wasting your time with any other approach.

It's like calling a racist a racist when you're trying to change his mind about being racist, all you're gonna do is piss him off and make him more racist.

And if indoctrination was the only effective method of persuading people, why do so many atheists come from religious households?

Just keep up the fight without succumbing to bitter misanthropy.

All too often simply saying "none of the above" to the religious affiliation question marks you with a big I NEED TO BE SHOWN THE WAY sign on your forehead. I'm not saying you need to prevent the question in the first place by walking around ripping pages out of bibles but I don't think any atheist should lie about why they don't believe in a god. For some atheists it's less involved but for many of us we don't believe in the abrahamic god because if he was real, that would mean our creator is the most evil thing imaginable, hell he puts Hitler to shame all the time (and he made Hitler). This is offensive, but its also the harsh reality of their religion, and seeing as how we're theoretically talking to people of at least some mental maturity I think its time to take the kiddy gloves off.

Not everyone can be converted. If a hardcore racist is going around acting on their beliefs I'd call them out in a second and I'd do everything I could to get them out of any position of power over other's lives and well-being. That is what's happening in this country, we are surrounded by a mass that believes in very destructive ideas and they are acting on them everyday and further spreading the word to others. If a racist was in your community and he was actively recruiting your neighbors and children would you actively try and prevent this or simply just stay in your house assuming others would automatically follow your lead?

My question is this: Why should we as atheists need the approval of theists? Why should we not automatically be considered a human being with equal rights? Why do we need to appease them? We didn't legally have the right to hold office in this country as an Atheist until 1961, our children are still expected to pledge to a god in school and our currency proclaims a faith that explicitly states we should be stoned to death.

There are many people I have come across that never were provided the differing opinion (remember I'm in the south here). They've never had these view points openly expressed to them. You don't specifically have to call a person an idiot in order to show that the ideas themselves are idiotic. I don't ever debase someone as a whole for their beliefs but I will not lie to them about the beliefs themselves. We've all been there at one point or another in our lives and believed in something that we later realized was a bad idea in the first place even without considering religion.

You are right, most times we shouldn't attack these people but I stand firm in believing we should exercise our right to constantly attack harmful ideas and actions generated by anyone.

I will admit that my, normally while drunk, response to "So you're an atheist" of "I prefer the term 'literate'" might be somewhat simply for shock value.

Well right, you should be firm, but there's a pretty thick line between, say, calling bullshit on creationists and bringing a painting like the one above to a protest or something.

What I'm saying is, what was done here is clearly past that line. Not a good example to set if you're trying to make atheists not look like the boogeymen of American society.

No shit !

See, for every asshole atheist, one of these douches crawls out of the sewers.

Newsflash, atheists, gays and other heathens have been around forever.

Our country is going down the drain because you vote "with god" instead of with your head.

what's yahweh and yashua ?
was curious

Yahweh is the actual name of the Christian god. They say "god" both to avoid the appearance of worshiping a non-omnipotent being and to avoid violating one of the ten commandments ("thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.")

Although they've forgotten that over time, this is one of the better informed ones.

Yashua is the correctly translated name for Jesus, I believe. Jesus is a made-up word, a mistranslation.

It certainly is indeed, although there is no historical proof he ever really existed. And Yahweh is another form of the name of the Hebrew God. The German rendition is Jehovah.