There are 5 million children who could be potentially orphaned by ICE deportations

No one is disagreeing with that---last part.

Is blaming all you can do?

Sometimes things need to play out by themselves without constant interference.

Firing the police officers was just stupid. Never fire the people that go on strike they love their job they just don't love it at that moment. They love it enough to go without pay and fight for something. That's worth keeping....not getting rid of.

Not to state that strikers are the most reasonable people, but that's just some not all.

I agree with you 1000%

It's nice to know you care for something other than yourself. But you're way out of place on this subject!

Just because you know the most talked about dance that we Latinos have (salsa) and know the most talked about countries that are known in America (Brazil, Puerto Rico, Cuba and Mexico) it still makes you sound out of place here.

Again, stay out of this subject and when you know how hard it is for someone from Latin American, not just Central America, to come here with a Visa, maybe than you can talk about why and how we have enriched your society and culture. You either have to be rich in Latin America to get a Visa or know someone in Power to do so. So no, you don't know anything about Latinos...

AND

Every group of ethnicity in this country, has murdered, has brought gangs to this country ( Crips and bloods/Black people and Hell's Angels/White people) has stolen from others, has kidnapped and raped kids, has lie to the people in the US, (George Bush, Bill Clinton (even though i would vote for him any day of the week) Rush Limbaugh... i see a pattern of Caucasian liars with power... don't come here and single out illegals.

EVERYONE in this country has made a mistake in their lives, I know I have, but I don't have a criminal record, I don't have warrants or owe taxes.... but yet you want to single out every single illegal as the reason why US of A has issues... ha!

I crossed the Mexican border and made a great life living here. In one year alone working for a bank as a VP, i made over 500k.... i'm only 33 and almost ready to retire... what are you doing for yourself? are you helping or complaining for the rest of the slackers in this country?

I'm not pretending to understand a people that stretches over two continents and contains hundreds of millions of people just that I can share an appreciation for the accomplishments therein.

Actually I do know what its like to get visas to come here. I've worked with representatives from the Spanish conulate in Indianapolis and have met the consular general twice. I've seen everything from religious visas, visas for students, and the art center where I worked gave out teaching visas so that people from the region could come and teach about their native cultures especially those with a history of qualifications involving low income communities and at risk youth. It took six months on our end six months on theirs just to spend one month in America to teach! It was ridiculous. Especially from Brazil whose immigration laws seem in many ways as equally restrictive as ours.

Indianapolis latin community is very vibrant. One of our guest speakers was Marianno Pozo the grandson of Chano Pozo the famous Cuban musician. Our art exhibition showcased two Smithsonian fellows of Latin heritedge and we brought together in concert everything from folkloric dancers to a latin Super Group whose members have more than 14 grammys between them, Groupo YaYa. I do know what the best has to offer and what it is that we have gained as a result and I want to see a loosening of immigration laws because they are needlessly restrictive and promote illegal immigration.

By the way, Marianno arived in America illegally fleeing Cuba for the most innocent of reasons, to pursue his dream of playing baseball in the major leagues he was a member of the Cuban national team and on a trip to Mexico stayed and fled to America seeking political asylum. He relayed his entire story to us and to the children in the program. And in the last year our president who is the son of an immigrant himself has his own sister denied political asylum and designated an illegal alien. The laws for asylum seekers also need to be overhauled nearly completely and I think that this is the perfect white house to accomplish it.

But I still can not support the illegal immigration and the system it supports! With coyotes, depressed wages, so much fear and human suffering and the disproportionate economic impact it has on making Latin America reliant on remittences rather than domestic industry. It can not be allowed to continue and there must be stiff consequences for those who violate the law.

word up ocanada. nothing good comes from illegal immigration.

We keep going around in circles with no solution here. If anyone decides to attack illegals and make unjust statements, I will continue to attack them and question their sources.

Unless you have a solution to the problem, making clueless statements of " depressed wages, so much fear and human suffering and the disproportionate economic" I will continue to think you're uninformed and ignorant.

Those are not clueless statements and until you work with the middle and working class of this country and understand their interests you will never get reform. What you are asking for isn't reform its a wet foot dry foot policy that will keep people pouring over the border and magically be granted legal status thats not reform. The solution is increased border security and a reform of both Asylum seekers and Visa seekers in this nation with a path to citizenship for those that are here but there still needs to be some deportations and perhaps many more than have occurred to date. Also green cards need to be issued quicker and I would even go so far as to say that naturalized U.S. citizens that have spent 35 years or more in America (the legal age to be president) should be allowed to run for president or vice president. But these are reforms that must protect and help those who did not violate U.S. laws and that is something that with your condescending attitude you will never convince enough Americans to support such proposals. Tone matters as well and the argument can not seem to be rewarding those who have violated the law.

and until i work with the middle and working class of this country? what do you think got me to the jobs I got in the past? my pretty looks? no, let me guess, my Latino looks, or maybe the accent i have when i speakit to tha white man! lol...

Again, you start good and then end up wrong. I've been down the path of the middle and working class. Just because I made it further in life, doesn't mean I magically got there. I worked my ass off just like everyone else. I was promoted from the bottom of the pole to the highest a Latino, with my age, can make it to, at that time. I was a VP for a company at the age of 28 with 99% of the management group being white.

Now, if you want tighter borders, sure! if you want tighter security, sure! want to deport more people because of the laws they broke? DO IT!! but to call them criminals because they are doing the same thing (again) your ancestors did? NO! you do so, or anyone else... i appear. =)

I'm not talking about you as a person but in the approach you are projecting about reform. Which is more important the means to an end or the ends themselves? Because you will never achieve your goal of reform by telling working class Americans that the jobs being taken by illegals are jobs they wouldn't take or denying that wages have been depressed and working conditions made less safe because of unscrupulous businesses manipulating illegal workers. The working class and middle class will never side with reform and will not only be insulted but be antagonistic as I am being here in this forum and reform will not occur. Just swallow the bitter pill by admonition about the shared injustice of this system or expect nearly wholesale opposition. By doing this the other side swallows a bitter pill as well admitting the conditions that these workers come from and the danger they face getting here.

As for doing the same thing my ancestors did? My ancestors include Native Americans and slaves just as many latin families do. Your condescension betrays your position and has you grasping at loose soil for a foundation. This countries history is as complex historically and racially as any in the Americas and it could be argued more so and again your tone hurts your argument because it derides the nation you are now a part of.

Middle class jobs? you're here crying how the illegals that pick grapes for a living and don't speak a lick of english, are taking Middle class jobs?

Go back into the hole you record your videos and talk about yourself more. You have to no CLUE in what you're saying and since your profile talks about how you keep writing about yourself, you should stay off topics that are beyond your intellect.

When you know what illegals go through, know what they have suffered to get here, what they endure on a regular basis to get by, they don't stand in the corner asking for a dollar (like your homeless people do) , but for a job and the shit white people make them do, then you can come here and talk about this, until then, stay of this subject with your clueless comments.

It is unsafe conditions. Its a hell they shouldn't be encouraged to go through for financial reasons. We need immigration reform, to make it easier for people to make it into America yes, but not doing anything about those who have come here and are continuing to come here is unacceptable because more will be killed by narco traffickers and disgusting coyotes and many more will work in unsafe conditions created by unscrupulous factory owners. When you defend illegal immigration you support the whole damned system.

The type of jobs that go to Illegals in Indianapolis aren't all unskilled labor positions. Illegals are often normal people with skills and even college educations whose circumstances forced them to this country for whatever reason whether political, financial, or due to conflict come here illegally because either they lack the time or resources for the proper channels or simply fear refusal after all that effort. Its a legitimate fear. 1,000 miles from Mexico people here aren't working in agricultural jobs they are working for construction companies, as sanitation engineers, working in factories, working in warehousing, working in landscaping, in many diverse sectors and they aren't all bad jobs. You don't get 1,000 miles without wits or connections or at least an organized network of those willing to violate the law.

As for my profile. Its about me. Thats the whole point of a profile. I also admit its rather dated and needs to be updated with a less self centered focus, those articles are three years old at this point as well. Current used to be much more of a social networking site than it currently is in terms of the focus being about producers and those interested in creating items for television and made for some unique storytelling that transcended just news.

Very nice... now i have some respect for you... but still, when you know how hard it is for an illegal to get here, than share your views. Complaining doesn't help and what a group of bad apples does for a living, doesn't translate to all of them, doing the same.

Also, I'm not supporting illegal immigration, please understand that. I'm supporting a better way for illegals to become legal and to stop the hate, the BS and crying that people put on these boards because they can't find a real job.

Every person in my family that crossed the bordered have become citizens, gone to school, have great jobs and have no criminal record. I can't speak for my cousins that were born here though... lol... but I can speak for myself and say that i don't need to be a citizen to make a change. I'm not one and won't probably one until I see a reason to be one. I've made the money only a few could make and have a great life! Why? because I worked for it...

So, great comment but don't think treating all illegals the same is a good argument for the lack of jobs, safety issues that others don't have.

But you are. By suborning criticism of illegal immigrants and simply resorting to insults or personal accusations of those opposed to illegal immigration you are helping that evil system. It isn't just black and white but staying with the status quo assures more human suffering than being willing to make concessions about border controls and doing something about those who have arrived here illegally or who have committed or abided crimes while here.

Your comment "But you are. By suborning criticism of illegal immigrants and simply resorting to insults or personal accusations of those opposed to illegal immigration you are helping that evil system."

The evil system you speak of is the same system that keeps illegals out of the US. The evil system you speak of has killed millions of families because they think they are God in those borders.

I continue to question and insult people that make unfounded statements about a group of people seeking the same thing your ancestors were looking for when they came here.

If this does not please you, well, next time bring up a solution to the problem. Talking about MS13 or the lack of jobs middle class is loosing has nothing to do with illegals. Last time I checked, I never lost a job to an illegal and people in NY or NJ don't have issues with illegals because we work our asses off to get the best jobs!! WE don't settle for the $10 or $15 per hour jobs, we strive for the best!

If your town or city or state can't do the same, go teach and preach down there.

Denying that illegal immigration has something to do with those issues doens't help your cause rather it is one of the unfounded statements you are speaking of.

ocanada, so you're telling me we need to focus on the issues you speak about because illegals are the ones to blame for it. OK!

So who do i blame for the Hells Angels? illegals?

how about Bloods and Crips? let me guess, illegals?

how about the lack of jobs for the middle class in NJ/NY? illegals?

or how about the corrupt political system in NJ/NY? illegals right? because they have people running the state and the police stations.

makes a lot of sense... i don't know why i didn't see it before...

The solution isn't to take either no blame or all of the blame. The idea is to make reform a partnership for the reduction of poverty in the Americas. It is senseless to deny any impact on Americas working environment for the negative. The best way to achieve reform is to make it the panacea that improves working conditions and wages so that this issue is never brought about again and you aren't going to get that with this adversarial approach.

You hit the spot! now you're making sense!!! Great Comment!

What are they going to do? Give the land back to the people that did not OWN the land to begin with?

If you don't change with the times, you get left behind.

I'm proud of the first nation movement and have played my small part in promoting it and had the great pleasure of speaking to Native American advocates and actors like Tantoo Cardinal.

@Plusaf, thank you for reminding us of the law of the jungle. The strong survive and the weak get their asses kicked. But let me remind you of another interesting phenomena. Many great civilizations have come and gone. Sumeria, Persia, Egypt, Rome, Greek, Ghengis Khan, Maya, Inca, Aztec, the list goes on and on. They all had their 15 minutes so to speak. And the current civilization will also fall one day, too. It is the way of things. The current empire may be all about extreme power and might through their weapons of mass destruction, their mind control and their bilogical agents with which they can unleash a catastrophe upon the human race in their pusuit of ultimate control and domination. But one day, those who are in control now will be in the minority, and I am not talking about Obama or his administration or the last administration. The United States, The United Nations, United Europe and even China, Japan, and Russia will all come to an end some day and what will be left is perhaps peopel who will have learned from the rollercoaster of empires that what people on this thread say is a Utopian dream, is the best and only way for the world to continue. Until that time, I am not going to sit by and just take it up the ass. No Thank You.

I am going to speak out and share my ideas. Many people are on the First Nation's train, it already left the station. It has the potential to be big.

It will eventually fail as well, will it not?

If history is as true as you state---no government sticks around no matter how big or small its heart is.

Plusaf, I look at my grandparents who are all now dead. My grandmother from Ecuador, lived to 101, while her husband, my grandfather who died in Ecuador, was left there by my father and the rest of the family to die. He was a violent alcoholic. But he had made a big name for himself. He made it all the way to become a Supreme Court Justice. He was also a government minister prior to that and a lawyer. And yet, with all of his accomplishments, being a violent alcoholic caused his entire family of 10 children to leave Ecuador and come to America to make lives for themselves over 50 years ago.

On the other hand, my grandparents on my mother's side. They didn't live past their 70's. They died from exposure to dozens of harmful chemicals that they were exposed to making bombs for the United States during the second world war. My grandfather worked on the Manhattan project and got injured in an explosion in a lab. He had to have steel rods grafted to both his legs because his bones were not capable of supporting his body weight. He walked with crutches. He taught me many things and told me stuff that he said was top secret. He had lost his faith in the United States because of the corruption he saw taking over the nation at all levels. He was angry at the VA because they had given him so many blood transfusions with mismatched blood that they couldn't match him correctly anymore. Both my grandparents on my mother's side gave their lives for this country and died horrible deaths.

The Beautiful United States that you are remembering and thinking fondly of is gone.The American Dream has turned into a nightmare and all of us, at least the people I know and support locally and some here on this venue, just want the nightmare to end and for us to wake up and find oursleves in a safe place to exsist.

What I do know is that in America 50 years ago, there was hope and brotherly love. In the America of today there is hate and fear and terror....and its not all caused by Muslims from the desert of Arabia. There is real terror in Washington and on Wall Street.

All of us, the immigrants who came here 50 years ago and the immigrants who came here 100 years ago who at one time or another were hated for their ethnicity have allowed ourselves to be manipulated and beaten down so that we dont' stand up for what is right. We just ask to be left alone to live in peace in our homes. But even that is being threatened.

This country may have started out as the Shimmering City of Hope, but it has become the Godzilla of the world. Personally I thing its too late to rescue her from those who have raped and pillaged her. That is why I have decided to support the First Nations and their movement. Once Godzilla has run out of steam, they will be there to pick up the pieces and reintroduce the survivors to the old ways of living with the land and nature in harmony.

Plusaf, I look at my grandparents who are all now dead. My grandmother from Ecuador, lived to 101, while her husband, my grandfather who died in Ecuador, was left there by my father and the rest of the family to die. He was a violent alcoholic. But he had made a big name for himself. He made it all the way to become a Supreme Court Justice. He was also a government minister prior to that and a lawyer. And yet, with all of his accomplishments, being a violent alcoholic caused his entire family of 10 children to leave Ecuador and come to America to make lives for themselves over 50 years ago.

On the other hand, my grandparents on my mother's side. They didn't live past their 70's. They died from exposure to dozens of harmful chemicals that they were exposed to making bombs for the United States during the second world war. My grandfather worked on the Manhattan project and got injured in an explosion in a lab. He had to have steel rods grafted to both his legs because his bones were not capable of supporting his body weight. He walked with crutches. He taught me many things and told me stuff that he said was top secret. He had lost his faith in the United States because of the corruption he saw taking over the nation at all levels. He was angry at the VA because they had given him so many blood transfusions with mismatched blood that they couldn't match him correctly anymore. Both my grandparents on my mother's side gave their lives for this country and died horrible deaths.

Well said MJ!

That's more to the fault of outsourcing labor and manufacturing jobs overseas than the influx of illegal immigrants.

Immigrants usually do the jobs that Americans do not want to do themselves.

That is globalist, one world government, bullshit. There are no jobs Americans won't do to feed their families. My Grandfather was a migrant farmer during the Great Depression, people did whatever it took to keep their families safe and fed. Don't give me that "jobs Americans won't do" crap, it's a lie.

That is utter bullshit. They are jobs people want a living wage for not jobs they would not do. For illeagals the job provides a living wage back home through remitences while our families starve or go on the unemployment line. Illegals depress the wages across the spectrum and damage the economy as a result while sending more than 20 billion dollars in remittences back to Mexico. Do you know what else is about 20 billion back to Mexico? Drug trafficking.

You also don't hear serial killers that are black, asian or latino. Most are white. That is also true to who a serial killer kills. They mainly stay within their own race.

The point isn't to blame anyone one race for a problem. The point is that they cause a problem and they aren't even citizens making it worse---because they shouldn't be here to begin with...

Those that commit crimes that are citizens go to prison. fine. But those that are not citizens shouldn't get to go to prison. They should be deported and never allowed back if they committed something like rape or murder.

J, no one is arguing that point, that if an illegal commits a crime, they shouldn't be punish. No one here said and no one here thinks that ALL illegals are innocent. At the same time, you have stretched your comments to all illegals, that's the issue that You and I have.

Not all illegals are the same, as well as, no all whites and blacks and every other race is or ever will be the same in their actions.

Don't come here and say that all illegals are one thing and they all should be deported.

Agree or Disagree?

circle the word that reflects your best opinion!

But I didn't say they should be deported.

Pilgrims didn't speak the native language well, but we all see how that turned out.

Maybe Mexicans are still pissed we took Texas from then and are trying to reclaim it through massive immigration.

Immigrants aren't the problem, true. This country flourished because of immigration. However, people are selective of the people who immigrate and how they get here. I'm sure the Pilgrims were never processed or had passports. The Spanish and African slaves did not have passports to America. They got here anyway.

That, and human traffic wouldn't be an issue if the economy was in better shape. Mexicans and other South American residents have been immigrating here for decades, even centuries, but as soon as the economy dove south and jobs disappeared this became an issue. The immigrants did not steal jobs and do not cause a dramatic increase in crime. America has always had crime problems since the roaring 20's, but since the faces are colored it's become issues of race and immigration.

I made valid points and you just gave me talking points that didn't address anything I stated.

I am not a person that ignores anyone. So if you have something to address in my comments that's actually about my comments I'll read and reply. Right now you're just saying things a politicians says and that's not a rebuttal.

I didn't want to go as far as you just did, but people here don't like to talk about racism... like it doesn't exist.

You should have read someone's comment a week ago, when we were talking about racism... thinking happy thoughts would make racism go away! lol..

I do think there is a racial component since it is decidedly a case of discrimination. I wouldn't say it all comes down to it, though. That seems overly simplistic.

I'll go further and state those that come from Mexico hate Mexico so much that they have to go to America.

If they loved Mexico that's where they'd stay and change that country to the way they want.

But because America is hospitable (because if it was not they wouldn't eve be allowed to stay at all....there would be sweeps and they'd be removed) they are allowed to stay.

Good thing you ignore that factor.

Sorry Mariana, but i have to disagree with you on this one. Whenever immigrants and other races are being contested, you can usually find a racist person behind the "reasons" why immigrants or other races shouldn't be here.

I've met Asians, Blacks and even people from India, hating other races, but they keep that to themselves... they don't post it or comment on it.

J, you know I love your comments and views! I also have you as a connection because i like what you put on the boards. And! because i'm part Japanese as well... but bro, how are you going to say that Mexicans hate Mexico so much that they move to this country because they hate it?? That makes no sense! I understand a few might not like the conditions of their country, but as a poor person, how do you expect them to change anything, when only the rich and the powerful are running the government?

oh wait... the rich and the powerful running the country, that sounds like the US of A....

Mexico is controlled by the drug cartels is it not? That's what it seems like.

America is ran by big business. All countries are ran by something that isn't the government in totality. It's nothing new.

I pay my taxes....I pay a lot of taxes.

How much do illegals pay other than sales tax? How is that fair? If they are so concerned about being part of America why do they not pay all the taxes even though they are not asked to because they really don't exist?

Respect isn't what they have. They want it before they give it and that's not fair when they barged in here. Case by case bases is fine, but the brute and honest truth is that they pushed their way in and demanded things without giving anything.

Again J, you're grouping all illegals as a whole, why? not all illegals are the same and I know many of them that pay their taxes to show the government one day that they did the right thing.

I worked at a bank as a VP and noticed many illegals that wanted to buy houses, had Tax Returns... now, they didn't claim everything and let's be honest, I would have done the same!! but they paid TAXES!! because they want a house and a new life. So don't group all illegals as a whole...

I paid 200k in taxes last year, not that my income was 200k and i paid a % of that, but $200,000 in taxes, who can say here right now, that if you were paying that much, wouldn't you find a way not to pay it all and save some???? any one?

and y'all group them all as good...only later stating that you know they all are not.

Let's just assume we both understand that what we state isn't for all.

Mexico is as much controlled by drug cartels, as the United States is controlled by drug cartels. Here they are called Pharmaceutical Companies.

So funny and true.

Well put! might not be the best idea, but well put!!

They were not slaughtered just by the Pilgrims---as if the pilgrims did all the slaughtering.

I didn't say the Native Americans DIDN'T deserve it. Because they didn't.

I suppose I should have mention the Spanish settlers that massacred the Natives of South America as well. How careless of me.

I suppose you supported the Americans treatment of the Asian citizens during WWII as well? At least they didn't massacre and/or genocide those people...

That's exactly what I did as a Japanese person I was fully thankful they stole and pillaged people because Pearl harbor was bombed.

You should get a MENSA request for that deduction.

Maybe I'll get one of those shiny "M" pins and a grant to do nothing...

I could milk the money from a bank account, sit around and comment on current.com all day...

You must have a MENSA membership too, since you're always here...

Very true, but one should also have a degree of compassion when judging any case. Balance is the most important part of a healthy justice system.

Then you best state that some are wrong for crossing the border illegally or where is your balance that you so state is necessary?

I don't buy you believe that.

You are stating things that sound witty and sweet but have not backed anything with any reason.

I await the reason.

I was refering to the balance between factual coldness and compassion, because these aren't rat labs you're dealing with, they're people. Said balance is what's necessary to be objective (at least as objective as one can be).

Again, I really wasn't suggesting what you should do with these immigrants, I was just offering advice so that people wouldn't come about the subject so heartlessly.

Yes they are human. There are 7 billion of them on this planet.

It's important to have a heart. It is also important to remember that that is what some people use to fake their problems and to make people do as they want by pulling on said strings.

Trusting the heart on these matters isn't always wise. It's what causes more problems than heals.

It's not our fault your father was a criminal. Blame him for your hard times, not us.

Your comment is ignorant.

You are pointing out the cost the family had to endure for a poor choice made by a criminal.

I'm sure your father put some thought into his decision to enter the US illegally. He must have thought this could have been one of several outcomes. Does a bad outcome trump the laws?

"No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it."

Teddy Roosevelt

Katherine_Miranda, don't listen to these numbskulls. They have had cushy lives and don't know what suffering is.

You have my compassion and the compassion of Millions upon Millions of the other oppressed people in this country.

Self made victims shouldn't be felt sorry for.

Seems the concept of legal versus illegal is over your head.

No, not really but I see the concept of finding a solution instead of fueling the fire is beyond your intellect.

Native Americans are not the owners of this land. According to a well renown scholar Indians did not OWN land. They didn't OWN anything. So the land was never theirs to begin with because they didn't want to own it.

That sounds great J, so I guess he was around when the Europeans came to this country and took their land? or maybe he was around when Texas, California and New Mexico were taken from the Mexicans and now it's part of the US of A??

Mexico was owned by Spain before they gained their what? Independence? So what they owned was not theirs...it was Spain's.

If we are really going to do this....Mexico doesn't exist as their OWN country.

You really want to get into this? Because last time I checked, Mexico wasn't owned by anyone until it was invaded by the Spaniards... so YES, they did OWN Mexico and other parts of North America... again, do you want to start this?

If that were true they'd have their own language. Instead they speak Spanish which is derived from the word Spain. Speaking Mexican is more like a derogatory term or a funny term depending on your context and who your friends are.

Spain colonized Mexico therefore their people were placed there totally taking over. Just like Britain Colonized America. So Mexico was formed where natives lived and they were pushed out so the Spaniards could live.

J, sometimes you start right and then fuck it up along the way. Mexicans do speak spanish but their language was called Tetikilhati and many others but was taken away because the Spaniards and their guns, took it from them. They colonize the land and made spanish the main language Latinos speak today. That's the only reason why, we (as in Latinos) speak that language, not because it was given to us, by the holy grace of the spaniards!

Stop trying my brother! You're not even close on this one!!

I don't Mexico's history as well as you.

That was not the point. No one owns the land they are on and doing this backwards in time thing isn't proving ANYTHING.

Let the fact that Texas had their own Indians before the little river hoppers came on over? Yes or no?

They don't own land so what does it matter?

Shouldn't Mexico be one of the better countries since it's been around the longest? What happened there? Isn't it Mexico that totally shuts down it's souther border making it really difficult to pass through?

J_Jammer, you're right that Native Americans believe that no one should "own" the land; they believed it should be used fairly and equally amongst everyone without anyone having special rights to the land (correct me if I'm wrong)...

However, the Europeans had a different concept of the land, due to hundreds of years of much more intense conflict and fear of what anarchy could lead to, and when they started building their cities and establishing laws of the land, not to mention wiping them all out because they weren't loyal to their respective nation, the Natives believed that their right to the land was being taken away.

What happened to the native americans has been unfair since the first encounter, and with issues like this news story, it's now being unfair for people who want to come into a nation taken away from the original occupiers who want to, apparently, keep others out.

Absolute BS, IMO.

"If that were true they'd have their own language. Instead they speak Spanish which is derived from the word Spain."

We don't have our ORIGINAL languages in Latin America because Spaniards came, impaled our men, raped our women and erased all traces of original culture.

"So Mexico was formed where natives lived and they were pushed out so the Spaniards could live."

I understand you're trying to look at this emotionlessly, and that's generally a good thing when you study history, but now you're just separating the scientific facts from the social and cultural consequences, and there's the difference between being objective being robotically uncompasssionate. A good historian usually finds a balance, especially when they're not personally affected by the historical event and thus have no perspective (as is your case).

In any case, this isn't what the thread is about...

Rules change. Ownership of land change. You can't keep things the same.

If you can't respect the laws why should you get respect in return?

"Rules change. Ownership of land change. You can't keep things the same."

Don't you think that applies to the law as well?

"If you can't respect the laws why should you get respect in return?"

So African Americans in the early 20h century should've just rolled over and drooled?

Man, you walked right into that one...

Dammm J! she's breaking you down bro!

I know what I said and I knew you'd say something as predictable as that.

But your last comment there....doesn't even address what I asked.

Why should you get fair treatment when you can't respect the law?

Bringing up black people as if Mexicans share the same plight is not only disrespectful, it's wrong.

This time actually think before you post.