Gay Soccer Players Soccer Against Homophobia

And explaining that would have been far better than just kicking them out.

Reasonableness before rash.

I think you should consider that more often.

No. Intolerance is when you don't understand someone for what they believe and then you slam them for it unforgivingly.

They did not do that. Looks like we have an example by what you posted, though. But I could be wrong.....you should clear the air.

As usual, your thought doesn't make any sense.

I guess the next time I post a reply to you I should use kindergarten words?

What are you having difficulty with?

The fact that you're showing intolerance or that I said they weren't being intollerent?

Usually I can follow along Jammer...but honestly I don't understand your response to Doug either. So, yeah, go ahead and use kindergarden words for my sake.

You cannot claim someone is intolerant while being intolerant to their beliefs.

Their beliefs have been along far longer than your existence and you think just by calling them intolerant they're going to think they are wrong and you are right?

That's not only stupid that's so ignorant.

They have had those beliefs for hundreds of years and you're going to call them a single name that is tossed around so much it's as worthless as a promise made by a politician black or white and expect them to flip a leaf?

I AM SO ANGRY THAT EVERYONE DOESN'T THINK LIKE ME...is what his post says. It's not about understanding. It's not about fixing the problem. It's about shutting down people that don't accept what he deems ok.

Not only condescending and self righteous but totally naive and self centered.

Their are more Muslim in this world than any other religion and you're going to call all of them intolerant?

Good call on that one social King, good call.

Not that you failing to listen to or understand anything is a remotely new thing, but what part of "they have every right to that opinion" did you not understand?

Refusing to play with people who don't conform to your beliefs IS intolerance, but that's entirely beside the point. If you won't play against a team with gay players, then you can't play in a league with gay players. That should be a pretty simple concept even for you Jammer.

Stop projecting. Your thinking is rigid, one-sided and simplistic. The more you display it, the uglier it seems.

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You said that, but then you said BUT.

When you say a comment and then there's a BUT it negates everything before it.

So you pretend to be tolerant and then go back to being what you are. BUT shouldn't be there if you mean to say they can believe what they want.

I rarely report anyone. So if your comment gets reported it's because someone else did it.

Where did you learn English? "But" is a pretty simple thing to be that wrong about. "But" never negates what was said before it. Rather, it introduces exceptions or, in this case, contrasting concepts.

They were not kicked out for their beliefs. They were kicked out because their beliefs prevented them from fulfilling the requirements of the league. Is that too complicated for you guy?

It is hilarious and pathetic that you consider yourself a "writer".

"You're so smart, but right now you're an idiot."

See how it works?

Do you feel complimented or insulted if someone said that to you?

And you're mocking people about writing English and you can't even grasp what BUT really means.

Condescension must be your best quality.

Everyone isn't on the same playing field when it comes to their morals. You cannot state that they were being discriminatory when they were doing as their religion teaches. If you want to understand someone you have to at least try.

Every little infraction isn't racist or discriminatory.

Oh, well let's try to understand it...

The religion tells them so.

That's not an excuse. I WILL say they were being discriminatory when they were doing as their religion teaches. I have been in that kind of religious climate and I know first-hand that it IS discrimination, and it is hate. It is not just someone's "beliefs." It has real-world consequences.

Ask: What did the game have to do with the team being gay (or pro-gay)? Absolutely nothing. They brought their beliefs into it. The gay team didn't refuse to play them because they thought of the Muslim religion as oppressive. The Muslim team made the choice to try to alienate the gay team, and for that they deserved to be ejected themselves.

Being born that way isn't an excuse.

An excuse for what? A gay friendly team in a soccer league?

Discrimination like this is the excuse.

If there can be a Muslim team, there can be a gay-friendly team. They weren't ejected because they were Muslim or because they're anti-gay. They were ejected because regardless of why, they refused to play against another team on the basis of sexual orientation, which is discrimination. Again, it doesn't matter why. Discrimination is discrimination.

But let's stop skirting around the real issue here.

Do you believe it's justifiable to discriminate against homosexuals?

Which is more important to you, personal beliefs which have nothing to do with the game, or treating opponent teams with dignity and respect despite differences?

Is it acceptable in a league for a team to not only make another team feel unwelcome, but so intolerable that a simple game can't be played with them?

You seem to be arguing for tolerance for intolerance, just because that intolerance is part of a belief system.

How are you treating someone who has religious beliefs better?

You're belittling their beliefs because they are not like yours. So you state they are stupid in a subtle and rude manner.

They handled their disagreement admirably. They were not like you and embittered. They were stating their problem.

Kicking them out was NOT the best way to handle it and was a rash decision that was only backed by people that dislike other view points.

Stop thinking that everyone has to like everyone else and if they don't that it's your duty (unless they are religious) to stand up for them to state that everyone should like them because you say so.

People can like or dislike whoever they want, but intolerance is intolerable. It's completely ridiculous to assert that intolerance should be tolerated because it is part of a belief system. If it had been a team that had done the same thing on the basis of simple homophobia, it should have been treated just the same.

It's not the Muslim team's league. The moment they rejected another team, they ejected themselves. This isn't about disliking others' viewpoints; this is about disliking intolerance.

EDIT** And by intolerance I mean more than a simple dislike; I mean a rejection.

And I'm going to go ahead and say it-- If a religion endorses intolerance or hate, then that religion is a problem. That's nothing to do with a stupid soccer league and everything to do with humanity.

You just go ahead try and twist this around to me being intolerant of their beliefs when their beliefs completely reject who I am--even endorse alienating me (or worse)--as if that's actually going to fly as an argument or convince me in any way.

Just like you are REJECTING them?

I'm not out to convince you. That's not worth my time.

I am going to state that they were born with these beliefs. Shame you hate people based on what they were born with.

People aren't born with beliefs, they're born into them. Unless you got some evidence...

Don't play these fucking games. I'm not rejecting religious people, I'm rejecting hate, and you know it. I'm not hating people for what they're born with. I'm not hating people at all. I'm hating hateful behavior. I don't care if that hate is part of their religion. Regardless of the why, it's unacceptable to act on that hate in the public sphere.

You're showing hate.

lol...Jammer you have spun yourself into a corner. Pawper has your number 'You seem to be arguing for tolerance for intolerance, just because that intolerance is part of a belief system.' That about sums it up.

No it does not. It only sums it up if you hate religion.

Which by your comments...that tends to be what you show.

Unless your mocking is done in complete and utter jest and not frustration?

Excuse me are you refering to me as the "Closet case" I actually play for 2 mixed sexuality teams both football & rugby, we have played teams in the past who have attempted to make jokes at our expense. We play them anyway & at the end of each game regardless of winning or losing we still shake hands with the opposite team.

dox get off your high horse. You have no inkling of who is a homophobe and who's not. Not of the comments were offensive. We're trying to have a damn discussion! The idea is to read other opinions and maybe, just maybe, glean something from them. Doesn't mean we all have to agree, but coming in and insulting people left and right doesn't seem to be a good course of action.

True.

And if they had a problem then the one team could have spoke with them to assure them that the game would be played like any other soccer game (or Football) and it would not be against their religious views because of this, that and whatever.....

If they took the time to understand why they would have a problem and then researched and created a response that respected their views the Muslim team could appreciate that and then this matter wouldn't have gotten as far as it has.

Jumping to the "OMG you don't like us...BANNED.." is crazy.

I have to agree. The Muslim team apologized and the match should have just been handled, with things explained like Jammer said. Way overboard on the reaction, less about the teams more about publicity.

With a real apology all should have been forgiven, but the captain apologized *for* Belgharbi (the president who wrote the letter), and Belgharbi didn't even show up to the hearing. Belgharbi also tried to defend the letter by saying that the Paris Gay Foot put sexual orientation before the sport, but he himself put a simple team name before the sport.

I feel pity for Creteil Bebel since their president got them into the mess. It looks like their captain had his head on straight, at least. I also think the media made things worse for everyone involved, including Belgharbi. At the same time, Paris Gay Foot reached out to Creteil Bebel in what seems like very good sportsmanship, but were turned away.

Pity?

That would be an insult coming from your arsenal of words.

Oh Jammer give it a break. You don't always need to rush to antagonize.

And people shouldn't be let off the hook because you side with them---especially when they are insulting for no reason other than dislike.