Woman slams baby's head into ground

jubal , this man has committed a horrible crime and must pay the consequences. The treatment for his mental illness must also be provided to him.
Although we heard a lot in the media about another case about a little girl who was abducted and raped. What was not publicized is that his wife has actively participated in the abduction of the little girl. In fact who knows she may have even participated in rapes. But much of that is not publicized and no public outrage for this woman's actions which are as hideous as her husband's.

Jubal, you are simply comparing apples to oranges in your example the only thing that these two would have in common is that they grow on trees. Yes both crimes are unforgivable, but while one was committed out of compulsion the other was committed out of honest insanity. Guaranteed this woman is heavily medicated just to undergo trial.

It's amazing how naive the american public is, in most countries everyone has at least 1 crazy relative on permanent meds, and that's if they're lucky enough to afford such luxuries as sanity on psychotropics.

As a society the solution would be to NOT create more stress out of the situation. We should accept human minds for what they are, imperfect and in some cases irreparably damaged.

BTW yes I'm one for just executing compulsatory criminals since these are the kind that are fully aware of what they are doing but neurologically lack the will to stop themselves from doing it or becoming repeat offenders. Until a means of repairing this condition exists society can not afford to allow said humans to be a part of our lives, however we must blindly and without prejudice determine whether or not each criminal is reparable and worthy of treatment.

Ask yourself this...Are you capable of committing suicide?

Chemical imbalance can be cased by hormonal fluctuation and even food allergies or chemical allergies.
Men and women must equally be responsible for violent actions regardless of the cause. Majority of violence is due to some sort of mental illness and it's not treated in the prison yet men sent to prison and women sent back home with the excuses. BOTH mend AND women must have enforced treatment for mental illness and violent actions punished.

If a woman should be given probation for murdering of her child because she has pms or ppp then men should also get the same for the hormonal imbalance they suffer. In reality man's health issues often are not publicized as much as women's health issues. For example, men can suffer breast cancer but no one addressing that and many never even heard of it. Young men suffer hormonal imbalance during puberty casing anger outbursts but no excuses for that behavior.
These too are facts of life.

Jubal, I am not a psychiatrist and have no magic pill to cure violence, I am not attorney and can not offer legal advice, and I am not in a position to propose a law changes.
BUT
I stand for the truth, fairness for innocent and human decency and equality. I write and call to congressmen/women and representatives. I voice my disapproval of one-sided media and disapproval of two judicial standards one for men and the other for women. I express my outrage of the corrupt judicial system to those that I believe are in position to make changes, I make my findings available to others and voice my views even when unpopular. I reach out and learn of ways I can help correct the wrongs. My current focus is on men’s issues as our society has changed drastically casing great injustice toward men and boys who are even prosecuted and imprisoned when they reach out for help or report the abuse. I search for ways to provide assistance to falsely prosecuted simply because they are the “wrong” gender (men), and to a growing number of domestic abuse victims who do not have access to federally funded support system because they are “wrong” gender (men).
As a woman I am not negatively affected by misandry but I refuse to be ignorant and pretend these issues do not affect me. It’s time to address the wrong perception that women are innocent victims and men are violent perpetrators.

So this violent and highly manipulative woman will go on and continue destroy innocent lives. No justice for her just a lot of excuses.

MFT isn't that just terrible? She cannot be held accountable for her actions by us, we tried and we were denied by the judge. So on that level, I completely understand where you are coming from. The system needs to be reformed and frankly I am glad that you are speaking about these injustices. For my friend and my own sanity, we had to move on. Which literally meant moving my friend from her low income apartment into a more expensive place. We don't have a system with which to fight back when someone gets away with these types of behaviors.

My pet peeve is the Family Courts and the way they are completely lopsided and should be reviewed with a magnifying glass. You and I have discussed that topic before and found much agreement.

I hope you don't consider me an ass for my earlier comments. I have a slightly different position than you on PPD, but in general I agree that there is an imbalance in the system that needs to be corrected. Gender should not be the basis of making someone's punishment less.

Thank you jubal. No hard feelings. I always enjoy intelligent discussion without personal attacks. In such discussions we can discover the truth and find solutions.

All very tragic. So MFT. What exactly are you proposing for each of those cases you used as examples? How would you handle them?

I have never stated that there should be no repercussions for her actions. She should be dealt with by professionals and she needs to be held accountable for her actions; prevented from doing what she did to another child.

MFT, I always enjoy your posts and agree with your perspective much of the time. I'm not quite as ready to always throw the woman under the bus, though. :-)

I, too, would like to see a truly equal justice system for men and women. That said, I'm not inclined to always side with the men, although I do feel that they are treated unfairly in many cases, but not in all cases. Equal to me is weighing each instance, checking the facts and making an objective opinion, with no regard to the gender of the person.

2helenahandbasket, thank you for your honesty. Let me clarify my position I do not automatically take man's side. I follow “do not do to others what you do not want done to you” and put myself in that state of mind as honestly as I possibly can. “Gender equality” is not equality for women only and it’s not equality for men only, is it would not be equality. Over the past years I have been witnessing great injustice and consistent un-equal treatment of men and boys in our society but see no public outrage quite contrary the inequality became a promotion for prosecution of innocent citizens, judicial corruption. This greatly corrupt and misandrist practice has promoted very profitable federally funded industry and the beneficiates are exclusively women. I choose not support such corruption and will speak, write and call politicians in hopes for change. I will not stop for my sons and daughters, brothers and sisters sake.

I, too have witnessed injustice and unequal treatment of men and boys in our society. I don't know how old you are, but I also remember the days when women could not get a break no matter what they did. When the women's libbers came along they did what both sides do when they try to right a wrong--they went completely to the other extreme. Thus we've had years now when folks give ALL the benefit of the doubt to the women instead of the men. I hope and wish for the time that judgements will truly be equal, weighing each infraction according to its own merits, regardless of gender. We all know that both women AND men are capable of some of the most unbelievable atrocities.....

I am asking for clarification. Are you mother, too? Am I being tag teamed here?

now jubal this isnt that type of site ;)

What aren't you gonna talk sweet to me, i'm disappointed. Don't be surprised. Whose to say that some people don't have multiple alter egos on this site?

And still not clarification about the feminist reference.

Yea, can we please try to separate our emotions from the issue of mental illness?

People don't intentionally lose the grip on sanity. Sure, in court people fake it sometimes, but mental illness is real and Satan and 'evil' and 'bad' has nothing to do with catastrophic chemical imbalance.

All Im saying is that there should be no absolute innocence for these actions.... illness or not

You wish! I have very rarely seen you show the first iota of common sense. Your self-diagnosis is right, but your classification of it is totally wrong.

Is an epileptic responsible for what his body does when he is having a seizure? No. And, by the same token, a woman in the throes of acute post-partum psychosis is NOT responsible for her actions over which she has absolutely no control.

again V, i have read this before, but it still does not make an excuse for these actions. keep attacking me, it brings credability to your position quite well

You may have read them before, but you have obviously not understood the first thing about them. Keep to subjects of which you have some command, because your comments here are ludicrous and only demonstrate your ignorance, and they hint at your having no humanity.

There is no possible self-control in cases of post-partum psychosis. Your post is inexcusable and ignorant.

You didn't have to be so mean.

I'm not trying to be some bitch saying she deserves to die or anything like that. I think she deserves to be put away where she can get help but I don't think she should be set free because she tried to kill her child.

That's just my opinion...

Its OK ever, resorting to personal attacks is just a way to justify oneself dont take it to heart, V is mostly a good commentor unless it comes to situations like this......

The only mean post is your original post. I hope you never have post-partum psychosis, and that none of your daughters (if you have any) will have it - but if they do and have the same uncontrollable reaction to something of which they are absolutely not responsible and cannot control, you will understand rather than deem that they should be put in prison and punished for something that is not their fault.

I'm not trying to take it personally. It just stings to have my comment blasted or to accuse me of ignorance when you don't even know me. I was trying to write a comment that was some what neutral and not taking a side, but it probably doesn't seem that way.

I'm a parent so when I hear of things like this it hurts me. I feel for the baby more than I do the mother because that is my instinct...

Yes I do I have a daughter (which was the first line in my original post)

I agree with you V! I don't disbelieve in postpartum psychosis. Okay... but my heart goes to the child who almost died or who might still die.

I feel for the mom too because if and when she comes back to normality the realization of what she done will be devastating.

The fact that you didn't even realize that this is a typical case of acute post-partum psychosis only demonstrates your ignorance. You didn't even try reading the informed comments here before shooting your mouth off.

That's better, EverChanging. I wasn't attacking you personally, I was attacking what you wrote. I am totally outraged by what most people here have posted - they tend to confirm the fact that over half the population of the USA has gone stark raving mad and lost all humanity.

I did actually read most of the comments on here first before "shooting my mouth" and the majority of the people were also saying "ignorant" things.

I do understand PPP exists. I have been told about by my doctors during my pregnancies.

I was just responding out of emotion... it DOES NOT mean I am ignorant, it just means I'm human.

So was everyone's comments on here were emotional... a child was hurt. To be NOT be emotional about that is to not be human.

I'm not mad at you, but it's easy to call me ignorant on the internet but you are forgetting that there I'm a real life person with feelings that you are saying that to. I know and understand your frustrations but you don't have to be so overly critical of people you don't know. A simple I don't agree with what you said, lets debate this would have been better. I strive to stay as neutral as I can be on here, because I don't want to appear as a bitch or better than anyone. I hate conflict.

I have been on here for a year and have read your comments on here before and I have always agreed with you and thought you were a really nice person.

Don't let this site get you down, EverChanging. The people who post here are just people. Sometimes they think they are a little above some of their peers here but that's just their own haughty opinion and you know what they say about opinions. :-) Some folks bask in their own illusions of grandeur. Sometimes folks resort to name calling and rude, hateful and personal remarks, and some folks get reprimanded for it and some don't. Just grow thick skin, hang in there and take it all with a grain of salt.

formula is a better option than drugging a child because of mommy's condition......

Noone is saying that this problem doesnt exist, but even this proves that there are means to prevent it. Noone who has a child is ignorant to these problems and only when they ignore the warning signs does it become a problem. The choice is made well before it becomes this problematic and the aspect of there being such a choice gives the issue of personal responsability creedence......

Never have I heard or seen anyone defending people who refuse medication and/or make the decision to come off of it and then commit a crime. Why is this then an excuse for mothers only??

There is no way of preventing first onset post-partum psychosis, there are no warning signs. Your ignorance on the subject is lamentable.

V
Thanks for your thoughtful post.
It's too easy to leap to judgement driven by emotion.

Excuses, excuses, excuses....
If women are prone to such obvious violence maybe we need to screen women and perform hysterectomy to prevent child abuse and murder. If a man was acting violently due to a mental illness I am sure similar solution would be enforced. And let's not forget women want the gender equality so lets prosecute these women equally to men.

I agree whole-heartedly with you, MotherforTruth. It's a double standard for women, they want their hormones to excuse them for what horrors they commit.
I feel for the women that go throught this , their lives are pretty much effed up for ever. They can't have a normal life again, the drugs all have side effects which can cause patients not to take them correctly or not at all. This means they can have episodes again.
And if they have other Mental illness problems unmasked by this acute episode they may be psychotic chronically. They need more than councilling and drugs. Quit feeling sorry for these women by allowing them freedom to do it again. It's not your fault they did this, and letting them walk to make you feel good IS NOT THE ANSWER. When did good logic go out the window?

Thank you, nursediesel. Your medical experience and perception is very helpful in the search for the truth.

nursediesel has time and again demonstrated that she has no medical experience whatsoever.

My experience in medical situations is to prevent and fix the problem. Not to allow criminals to run free because of my 'feel good for myself attitude". There are too many good people suffering from the "feel good bull shit' it's about time some one stood up for those devoted and true people that are ignored and victimized by loud mouth billies fighting for people that should be put away.
There are people suffering with illnesses that cause no harm physically to any one but themselves... Helping these people live out their natural lives with dignity and the best care possible is my goal. Again I can't plug Hospice enough!

This is good info . A friend of mine had a mild bout of this , got it treated and has been a great mom for many years .

Sheesh, regjoeschmo, you really don't even begin to understand. Keep to subjects of which you are an expert and leave subjects such as this one to the informed, intelligent and humane.

Acute post-partum psychosis. Not the mother's fault.

Birdy

"There is Abortion ...Late turm Abortion ...and really really Late turm Abortion"

And which are you?

He's the "missed-opportunity-for-an" abortion.

Ha. Fell through the cracks. tragic.

GET REAL!!!!!

Under this ideology we should release all of the serial rapists/murderers and give a pat on the back to child molestors... Dont all of these situations come from uncontrolable urges/brain chemistry imbalances???

regjoeshmoe, your post is ludicrous and shows how little humanity and intelligence inhabits you.

Verochka, it appears that you can diagnose this woman without even ever specking with her. Well maybe her diagnosis is radical feminism. As famous radical feminists believe "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." (Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.) and this,
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males."(Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.)
Did't the article mention it was her baby boy?

Yes, Verotchka thinks it's ok if you have an excuse to torture, kill, and maim; and then you should be able to just walk away scot free and be able to do it again and again, no big loss to her. It would just be terrible to punish this lady, she's been punished enough already.
What about the poor child? Is his life worthless? How about the next kid she does this to? Worthless? She belongs in a mental health institution on meds for the rest of her life. She is still guilty for what she did, period.

Well, I thought you of all people would love Nurse Diesel's character, Verotchka. She emasculates men. Guess this means no fruit cup for you tonight!
But seriously, is her child's life worth nothing? This women must be held responsible for her acts, she did them, for whatever reason. If she did this to your chlid or grandchild you'd feel differently.And she must not be allowed to repeat this horror again.

Describing yourself and pretending that it is a description of me! LOL! nursediesel, the emasculator here is certainly not me - try looking in the mirror.

sarcasm escapes thee.....

Anyone that compares your and my posts over the last several months will know the true feminist .....

Uhhh for one thing, it has nothing to do with the fact that she is a woman. I never said "ooo that poor woman." I know even normal women can still easily be batshit crazy. But what this woman did was in no way rational. Naked, tons of witnesses, bashing her own baby's skull into the pavement. NO ONE in the right mind, would do that. You have to be either insane or flat out evil. But hey, that's my opinion. Since all I have is this article as reference, I can't know for sure. So neither can you. Why do people have to bash each other on these things? Why can't it just be an exchange of ideas rather than a I-Know-Better-Than-You boxing ring?

She didnt bash you, she was giving you another frame of reference.......You know beyond this story...... Think about why you dont have much more info to relate to..... things like this are found, but often never made a big deal of by the media.... So many instances of abuse are swept under the cracks to support a bias ideology

@Sam you need to understand that Motherfortruth has an agenda. This person wants us to believe that there is no such thing as mental illness that affects women, that men are treated far worse by virtue of their sex for their crimes than women are, and that we need to even the score.

There are some of the stories and opinions that Mother posts that I can agree with, like lighter sentences for women over men who commit the same crime. There certainly is judicial discrminiation against men in many parts of the country.

Im sorry Jubal, but when has she ever said this in which you have quoted???

The issue is not whether or not there is mental illness involved, but the aspect of how it is portrayed/ruled upon in the courts and media......

@Joe, I completely agree that the media are complicit in creating the imbalance in peoples perception of crime by the gender of the individual, by creating sympathy for the women in their reporting of a story - they somehow construct the perception that a woman must have a psychosis involved in her motive, while the man is acting with sober premeditation. This could perhaps be argued with some interesting analysis and examples. Perhaps men deserve to have their own criteria under which their psychosis could be used in their defence.

But now we have Nancy Grace as the media pitbull to go after mother child killers, don't we?

But, for a woman who has post-partum psychosis, it is not uncommon. She has as much control over her actions as does an epileptic over his fits.

one could also say that if this mother was fully punished for this crime, then other mothers would be less inclined to do this themselves..... I mean isnt that the reason for punishments??

regio - the mother is not responsible - she is as capable to control what she does when she has post-partum psychosis as an epileptic can control his fits. You are devoid of understanding.

please do not resort to name calling and personal attacks, you are better than that ;)

Within this comparison there are many ways an epileptic can avoid their "fits" and it comes with education and prevention.

Vierotchka, "the mother is not responsible - she is as capable to control" I would like to know under what conditions would you ever consider mother be responsible for her violence?

What dont you understand about not responsible for her actions? Is it possible that she was faking it? Yes of course its possible but not likely. It seems obvious that the women was not sane... noone just starts beating on their new born for no reason. She certainty doesn't deserve death for being temporarily insane.

I really dont understand what your point is... its too steeped in emotion for any logic to shine through. You want to kill this woman for harming her own child while she was in the throes of a well known mental disorder? Hey maybe we should just lynch her like they did to people in the olden days.

While mental disorder can be blamed for violent behavior, I stand for the rights of this baby violently treated by his mother. How many mothers shall be allowed to go free for killing their children? There are mothers who fed their children rat poisoning in revenge or killing her infant and eating parts of her baby’s brain. There are mothers who choose to kill her children to prevent the husband from getting the custody during the divorce. It appears that nearly every woman who is accused of child abuse, murder or rape of minor is excused and often goes unpunished.
Why is this allowed?
Statistics show that mothers are more likely then fathers to be violent towards their children. Why are these mothers excused?
There would be a public outrage if a mentally ill man slammed his baby's head into the sidewalk or killed his baby and ate the baby’s brain. A mentally ill man would never be excused because he was not in control due to chemical imbalance in his brain. Never!
I am a woman, and I am a mother and I stand for the truth and equality.

@MFT: " How many mothers shall be allowed to go free for killing their children? There are mothers who fed their children rat poisoning in revenge or killing her infant and eating parts of her baby’s brain. There are mothers who choose to kill her children to prevent the husband from getting the custody during the divorce. It appears that nearly every woman who is accused of child abuse, murder or rape of minor is excused and often goes unpunished........"

It's true that mothers choose to kill their children for many reasons, MFT, but you MUST see that a woman who kills her baby and eats its brain is NOT sane. The woman who feeds her child rat poison for revenge or kills her child so the dad doesn't get custody is another story and deserves serious jail time. There are many, many times that a woman DOES go to jail, for a very long time, for murdering her child. Women don't automatically go unpunished just because they're women.
I'm not saying there should not be some sort of punishment for what they've done, just as I'm sure you don't believe it's impossible for someone to be insane. If a woman is mentally ill she needs treatment and time in a mental hospital.

@ Vierotchka:

The mother IS responsible. She may be mentally ill but she is, indeed, responsible for what happened to her child. No one else did it but her. The question is, what to do about it.