Gay marriage loses In Maine

time to get rid of a few passages...

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

in fact, i'd say just rip out leviticus altogether.

There was a huge coalition of religious leaders who were in support of Gay Marriage here in Maine, and they helped us make the margin as close as it was.

zphoneixdownz - What about the part in Deuteronomy that allows a man to take a woman as a sex slave in times of war?

Your vote still counts, you got your voice out and it was heard. Just because you where in the minority side of the vote does not mean that your vote was useless.

actually the total count on yes was around 300,000, which is about 1/3 of the registered voters in the state.

You want laws to be passed by legislators? No vote by stupid people? I'll pass on that, thanks. Strange as it might seem, I kind of like the idea that the people in this country have a say.

I had no idea this issue had come up for a popular vote 31 time, and failed 31 times. My best guess would be the time isn't yet. Only thing to do is to keep on plugging at it. Older generations die off.

Hopefully that law suit will make it to the US Supreme court soon enough, so that Gay Marriage can be legalized across all 50 states!

Yup

I agree.

(but still, i demand that the prudes allow me the right to become another prude with the person i love.)

That's like saying, "sorry gay people, you're only kinda equal to us heteros."

gay marriage is wrong

How so?

"gay marriage is wrong"

What kind of argument is that?!?
I'm not sure expending the effort to counter it would be worth more than a fleck of ass lint.

no points for schadenfreude.

gay marriage isn't wrong, it's just not legal everywhere yet.

also, what rap do you listen to that's excited about conservative values? just curious.

being gay is wrong period

You should explain why. You have no credibility if you just spout hateful opinions.

and i half-wrong for being bi? :)

This is not a matter of two plus two equals four, you said that gay marriage is wrong, explain the justification behind that. If you really believe that because you are a smart person, you should be able to back that up. If you are just an idiot regurgitating hate against homosexual relationships then you'll have little more substance to your argument than, "being gay is wrong."

back your shit up, otherwise your comments are the conversational equivalent of shouting "fire" in a theater.

homesexuality is obviously unnatural because you need to be heterosexual in order to reproduce and keep the earth populated

"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion". -Romans 1:24-27

ibrake4rappers: Homosexuality isn't wrong....

Being black is.

Speaking of being black, the Bible condones slavery. Should I quote a verse for you?

correction: I looked at your myspace, and it appears that you're Mexican.

I guess it's all the same, right? I mean c'mon, MAJORITY RULES!!

L O L

Wow Mr. Ibrake4rappers, that was some thought provoking stuff. Let's look at what you wrote.

"homesexuality is obviously unnatural because you need to be heterosexual in order to reproduce and keep the earth populated"

Yes, homosexuality is obviously unnatural. That's why as scientists study it, they seem to be gradually finding more animals that partake in homosexual behavior. Since animals were not blessed/cursed by eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge, they should just be acting upon the natural instincts and designs that God made for them. And if that is so, then homosexual activities in animals are natural. Therefor homosexuality is not only not a choice, but is is also natural. Granted, it is not for everyone, but it is not unnatural.

As for the bible quote, whoop de shit. The idea was for you to give us your own example of why it is wrong. If you are going to put the quote there, then explain why it proves homosexuality is wrong. Hell, the first part of the quote doesn't even hint at homosexuality, it is talking about people worshiping pagan gods whom the likes were technically worshipped long before the concept of Christianity or even Judaism came to fruition.

Here, if you want to do something that is actually impressive for your side of the argument, then find a biblical reference that fits this description. Find a scripture or quote of Jesus saying something about homosexuals to support your position. Heck, find a scripture or quote of Jesus saying anything at all about homosexuals.

If the man wants to believe that gay marriage is wrong thats his right. Sorry people but just because most of the current faithful do not believe in God doesnt mean that you are in the majority in the real world. I have never before seen so many people in my life that do not believe in God. Some.....not all but SOME of you even seem to hate God which is strange in and of itself because you seem to hate something you dont believe in. A true Christian believes homosexuality is wrong. A true Christian would also see the same in Gay marriage.

I also think some of you are pissed because you are starting to figure out that the country is not as liberal as you all had hoped. After obamas 4 years. I would expect it to be even less. The past elections a couple days ago are only a sign of times to come for the liberals. The country is rejecting the liberal social policies that are sure to end the country as we know it and they are saying NO to the out of control spending by the liberal administration.

ihatethemall: we just want him to back up his position... that's all.

of course it's his right to think homosexuality is wrong. JUST LIKE I THINK IT'S WRONG FOR HIM TO BE NON-WHITE. too bad he's inferior to me because of his skin color!!!

let's take a vote....

ihatethemall

Wrong.

From NBC's Harry Enten-April 30, 2009
For the first time in a nationwide survey, more Americans say they support gay marriage (49%) than oppose it (46%), according to the latest Washington Post/ABC poll.
That 49% supporting gay marriage, in fact, is a significant jump from 2004, when the Post/ABC poll found just 32% in favor.
This surge within the past month suggests that any backlash against the recent moves across the country to legalize gay marriage has yet to emerge.
Also in the new survey, a majority of Americans (53%) believe that their state should recognize gay marriages from other states.
Other recent polls have shown a similar increase in support for gay unions nationwide. The New York Times/CBS News poll released this week showed 42% of Americans supporting gay marriage -- the highest number ever recorded in that poll. This week's Quinnipiac poll, which found a majority (55%) against gay marriage, also showed 57% of Americans support civil unions.

Guess the nation is more liberal than you thought.

Ihatethemall, why would a true Christian think that homosexuality is wrong? Jesus never said anything bad about homosexuals. Jesus never said anything about homosexuals. For something to be so important and note worthy, one would think that he would at least mention it in passing in the new testament. Anyways, isn't the new testament, particularly the parts that have to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ, supposed to be what the Christians/Catholics get most of their beliefs from anyways?

" No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:8-10

"For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching that comes from the glorious Good News entrusted to me by our blessed God." 1 Timothy 1:9-11

"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16
You just got PWND!

ibrake, i have a news flash for you:

quoting bible verses doesn't back up your point in THE REAL WORLD. this is not church. do your teachers at school accept bible quotes in your research papers?

you have no argument without using the bible.

"For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one to whom we are accountable." -Hebrews 4:12-13

BAM! I could do this all day.

what real world are we talking about here? because i can apply the bible to everything

"It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible."

-George Washington

I think ive proved my point here.

Good day to you all

Well gee Ibrake4rappers13, those bible quotes are pretty and all, and they sure are convincing. But, well... I'll just post the website then the conclusion.

http://www.inherit-the-kingdom.org/bible/arsenokoites.html

Conclusion from the website.
"If 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 could be translated as "... homosexuals ... will not inherit the Kingdom of God", or anything like that, then this debate would be over, for the Christadelphians at least. But arsenokoites and malakos can't be translated in that way. We have to conclude that 1 Corinthians 6:1-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 have nothing to say about same-sex relationships."

Oh, and the quote from George Washington, here's another fun link.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/badquotes.htm

To the biblical quote Hebrews 4:12-13, I must point out that a double edged sword cuts both ways. If one looses focus for even a second, they can easily cut themselves. Also I have to ask, does this quote mean that God watches when I go to the bathroom too? If that's the case God might have voyeurism issues.

Oh, I forgot... in response to your, "You just got PNWD!"

Denied.

Totally. Marriage is religious. At the same time there are religions that marry gays. Therefore the truly accurate choice would be to call EVERY union a civil union and be done with it.

Good point, as soon as we take away everyone's Medicare with a new single payer system (i.e. Medicare for all) they'll all die off for lack of health care and the thinking generation will take over this country, and Fox News will be considered the contrived reality TV show that it is.

i second that, creditfiargo.

Sorry guys, I don't feel anyone has the right to legislate your lifestyle but wording on the ballot is everything. This is exactly what happened in Michigan a few years back. If memory serves me correctly there was a proposal for gay marriage (could've been affirmative action though) and it was also phrased in a double negative fashion. The wording confused voters and the proposal failed. I'm still not convinced it would have passed Michigan is very red everywhere except the SE.

i agree all unions under the law should be considered "civil unions". And I think it should have nothing to do with your sexual preference or even if you are romantically/sexually involved. Why is it that the only people you are allowed to share rights and responsibilities must be sexual and the "opposite" gender.
There are all types of "alternative" families - not just gay ones. For example, two elderly widows cohabitate and care for one another - they have no other family - shouldn't they have hospital visiting rights? Inheritance? This and other "rights and responsibilities" should be something you mutually decide to share with other people regardless if they are your friend or lover. You would just go to a government office and register your "partner" in civil union.

This way the government would not be legislating what types of relationships we have. They would not be in the quasi-religious role of deciding what marriages are valid and which are invalid. Everyone can go their own church and point as many fingers as they want at gay people, but they can't deprive anyone rights.

The question was phrased as a double negative? That reminds me of a vote on gay marriage in Oregon that occurred some years ago when there was a trend and all states were voting on the issue. I actually took my time to read the little descriptions of what would happen if you voted yes and what would happen if you voted no. I shit you not, both of the explanations were word for word the exact same thing and in their most simple form said, "this will not make gay marriage legal". This was not a typo, or an error on my specific ballot. I looked, with permission, at the ballots of some friends and family and it was exactly the same thing.

exactly, love is love, and if your lucky enough to feel it then people's ignorance and bigotry should not factor into it.

...absolutely, my friend...I'm with you...Eden...

in many circumstances i would agree that states should be able to make their own laws, but not this one.

"A law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) issued in 342 CE prohibited same-sex marriage, but the exact intent of the law and its relation to social practice is unclear, as only a few documented examples of same-sex marriage in ancient Rome exist." ~ wikipedia entry on marriage

you know what that means? bigots have been perpetuating this issue for more than 16 centuries of documented history. christians, mormons, etc. are laying claim to the word marriage like they invented it. they didn't... marriage was around long before any of our contemporary religions were even founded. it's high time we help them keep their opinions to themselves on a national level.

if this were an episode of the twilight zone where homosexuals ran everything and they wanted to ban heterosexual marriage it would be just as wrong.

Yey! Americans had their rights taken away by ignorant people!

I'll make sure to celebrate when the reverse happens to you.

Show me where marriage is a "right" even between a man and a woman. I just can not find it.

Treating a sacred religious bond and turning it into an entitlement just doesn't pass the smell test.

Now if youwant to talk allowing same sex "benefits" outside of marriage I definitely believe some arguments are valid.

That's the whole fucking point.

If marriage is not a right and cannot be applied equally to all unions between people then it is unfair, unconstitutional and should be outlawed at least in terms of it's use in government matters and legislation. So any laws that give special treatment to married people should be repealed.

My_America, take the government benefits away from people who get married and you will have a valid argument. However, marriage was given tax benefits during the what, 1950's? That was a huge fucking break on the separation between church and state. So unless people are willing to give up the benefits, tax and otherwise, for being married, then they should shut the hell up and allow people who wish to have a homosexual marriage be married. If people don't want homosexuals to be able to marry, then take away all of the government benefits that couples get when being married.

I do not believe marriage as laid out in the Bible is for anyone except for between a man and a woman.

I know this is going to very unpopular statement but I believe being gay/lesbian is a choice.

Again I do believe as far as making Medical decisions and visitations for a loved one in same sex partnerships needs to be expanded. To me this is a basic Civil Right (not marriage). There are other basic Civil Rights need to be explored and expanded to the Gay/Lesbian community (not marriage – that is not a Civil Right).

I believe your community in fighting for these Civil Rights vs. going after same sex marriage. You will have more American’s on your side with these arguments.

RE TAX CODE: Because of expanded Government taxes there is a minimal tax advantage if any for a married couple (http://marriage.about.com/od/finances/a/marriagepenalty.htm).

Ohhhh boy. A marriage between a breadwinner and a homemaker results in a HUGE tax benefit... you aren't an accountant, are you?

Instead of getting into that, let's talk about your moral argument.

You said:

(1)"I do not believe marriage as laid out in the Bible is for anyone except for between a man and a woman.

(2)I know this is going to very unpopular statement but I believe being gay/lesbian is a choice.

(3)Again I do believe as far as making Medical decisions and visitations for a loved one in same sex partnerships needs to be expanded. To me this is a basic Civil Right (not marriage). There are other basic Civil Rights need to be explored and expanded to the Gay/Lesbian community (not marriage – that is not a Civil Right)."

1) How is that relevant, exactly?

Just to entertain you I'll ask: Can you show me where Jesus said that?

He didn't say that at all, in fact the notion that there is a problem with homosexuality doesn't come from Jesus. The evangelical position directly contradicts the notion of what Jesus preached (acceptance, equality, etc.) and in a contradicting situation aren't Jesus words the authoritative literature over his apostles and whomever else?

2) It depends on how you define gay/lesbian, but ultimately, it doesn't matter. If we are given the right of the pursuit of happiness and one deems that their happiness comes from a homosexual relationship, so be it. It certainly doesn't violate the life and liberty of anyone else.

3) This is the whole point of the movement, and the semantics are what, I believe, are causing the problem for everyone. We are talking legal rights, here. No one is telling your church that it has to marry anyone it doesn't want to. Each religion has a right to define its moral code, it's called freedom of religion. There are religions that marry gay people. Why shouldn't the federal government recognize such a union just because there happens to be another religion, which had nothing to do with the union, that doesn't recognize it.

Religion does not apply in a country with a separation of church and state. Besides, you are only talking about the Christian religion. There are many others and many openly accept and endorse gay marriage, even Christian sects.

The bible means nothing to me and millions of others, other than as an also-ran in the bargain bin of second-rate science-fiction novels, most of which are actually based on real science, unlike the 'good book'.

No worries Sleepirt. Christians pray for believers and nonbelievers. Hopefully one day you experience his good and grace and pick up the Bible.

"Christians pray for believers and nonbelievers."
I've heard all about those 'precatory prayers'. Don't bother, thanks.

" Hopefully one day you experience his good and grace and pick up the Bible."
That won't happen because 'he' or 'they', whichever it is this week (is it theism or polytheism?) does not now, has never, and will not ever exist.
As for the bible itself, I have read of it extensively which is why I am so acutely aware and informed with respect to its fraudulent content.

Represented by Olympia (brrrrr) Snowe.

My town went 64% no. My County went 68% no.

48% of the population of Maine kicks ass.

No worries. Maine is not to blame. Its the dark forces of the Republican and their unholy money and regressive ideology

You're right, and a bunch of people voted for chickens' rights the same day prop 8 passed in California. No one said they were conservative either, you said that.

But they're still douche bags for ignoring the plight of their fellow citizens, many of whom they actually agree with, because some Mormon commercials scared them into thinking it would be taught in schools.

Most people who vote against gay marriage either hate gays or have been terrified by people who hate gays into thinking that this would destroy something essential in American life like religious freedom.

"A bunch of pot heads voted this down as well."

Yeah, I see the connection. Er....

Marriage is a civil institution in this country, the word is no more "yours" than anyone else's.

It belongs to the people, and its importance is civil. How would you feel if, all of a sudden, civil marriage was banned for Christians? Do you honestly think they'd be content to just say they were married and go on with their day?

Fuck no they wouldn't, no one would.

This is about being a citizen of this country and destroying the hegemony perpetrated by others.

If you feel marriage is being "bastardized" by this, tough shit. There is no moral authority in a free country, people think you're just as immoral as you think they are and their arguments are just as valid.

You know what this is about clay, the real fucking argument here...

It's about gays period and whether they should be accepted in this society, pretending like gay marriage is about anything else is totally disingenuous.

Marriage is not being "bastardized," that notion is absurd, anyone can marry anything. The question is whether the state should recognize it.

Not in every society. I can't remember the name of the tribe, but in the Amazon there's a people that permit the marriage of a woman and a masculine woman who then adopt a child from another couple. It's seen as perfectly normal and acceptable.

If by accepted you mean not lynched or beat up regularly by police maybe, but certainly not as equal citizens.

Keep in mind that you're the one who claimed dominion over the word marriage. Even if it wasn't for religious purposes, and I fail to understand why you would care on that basis, I still debunked that you had any ownership or claim to it period. Replace the word "Christian" with whatever you want, the logic is -exactly- the same.

And "for thousands of years?" Whose history, where? Certainly not for thousands of years, Native Americans had lesbian marriages and Europeans married for property from the dark ages to Victorian times. The Mongols took their wives by force, the Greeks were too busy fucking little boys to care about their marriages. Besides, an argument from tradition is invalid by definition.

The point being is that marriage is whatever we choose it to be and in the modern context it's done to solidify a union of love between two people.

Some good points here. If marriage favors only certain unions then it is unfair and thereby unconstitutional and should be illegal. Abolish all marriage. I think you'll find a lot of married people to support that.

sure thing, jonraymond. :)

"You obviously dont turn on the television to see televison shows having same sex couples. The thousand man marches in dc or the fucking parade at walt disnely land every year for homosexuals."

And that translates into acceptance how?

People are fighting for their acceptance and the tide is turning, but they're clearly not considered normal or even moral by possibly even a majority of the population.

"How is this different from interracial marriages?"

Well for starters, "gay marriages" are not a union between one man and one women. They are generally unions involving either two men or two women.

I hope this helps.

clay
"Why cant you just call it something different, and give them a tax break is that going to make them happy?"

You understand the concept of 'principles, I'm sure. Why don't you give up the term and find something else? Oh, right....principles

'It not about gays being together its about the bastardization of a word that so many hold dear. Just as its not fair for gays to get "married". It wouldnt be fair to those who dont think they should.'

Bastardization?
Mirriam Webster dictionary definition(s):

1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3 : an intimate or close union

Free Online Dictionary:
a. The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife, and in some jurisdictions, between two persons of the same sex, usually entailing legal obligations of each person to the other.
b. A similar union of more than two people; a polygamous marriage.
c. A union between persons that is recognized by custom or religious tradition as a marriage.
d. A common-law marriage.
e. The state or relationship of two adults who are married: Their marriage has been a happy one.
2. A wedding.
3. A close union: "the most successful marriage of beauty and blood in mainstream comics" (Lloyd Rose).
4. Games The combination of the king and queen of the same suit, as in pinochle.

Dictionary.com:
1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.
4. a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage; homosexual marriage.
5. any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song.
6. a formal agreement between two companies or enterprises to combine operations, resources, etc., for mutual benefit; merger.
7. a blending or matching of different elements or components: The new lipstick is a beautiful marriage of fragrance and texture.
8. Cards. a meld of the king and queen of a suit, as in pinochle. Compare royal marriage.
9. a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces.
10. Obsolete. the formal declaration or contract by which act a man and a woman join in wedlock.

What bastardization?

'It wouldnt be fair to those who dont think they should.''

It otherwise wouldn't be fair to those who do? Do they count? Are they citizens/taxpayers/humans/families?

'Its an un-winnable war of words.'
No, it's not. Look it up. In the dictionary.

It is our duty to fight.
It is our duty to win.
We must love and protect one another.
We have nothing to lose but our fear.

agreed.
It makes no sense to me for people to feel they can impose their beliefs on others, preventing them from marriage. everyone should have the right to wed whom ever they love.
boo Maine.

Whether or not any individual agrees with the concept of civil marriage itself is irrelevant to the fact that homosexual people deserve equal treatment under the law, period. The fact that this does not exist hinders our societal growth and is blatantly un-American.

"Someday people will look back on this time in history and be as appalled by the intolerance as I am."

No, not someday, today. Decent people across this country are already appalled by this intolerance.

To live in a nation that allows itself to be ruled by the fears and prejudices of the ignorant is not something new to the US, but it is still appalling.