Locked up for life at 13

Sorry Monk, but I've been in the system, I was guilty, just about everyone that was in there was guilty, no matter what people say, although 57% of the prison populations are black, I assume that they are doing that much more crime. I'm sure there are some that are railroaded, or mistaken identity or whatnot, but the great, great majority are guilty. As for Quotas, I doubt it. Judges and prosecutors and lawyers are mostly buddies is their off time, golfing, doing lunch, poker, whatever, it is an old boys network, but most of us dumbshits were in there for dumbshit we did. Luckily I had the money for a good lawyer and just got short time. You can buy justice, or a reduced sentence, but my shit was for a minor drug related offense.

But I don't feel for rapists, murderers, child molesters and the like. Let them rot, I don't care how old they are, the lady that the kid raped with his friend was 72 years old. As I mentioned, if that was my mother, I'd want him dead. And it isn't really hate, I've just known or had contact with lots of criminals, most don't give a shit about anyone or any thing.

And I don't believe for a minute the one about the New Jersey judges being on the payroll of a privately operated prison.

MotherforTruth said: "I also stand by my opinion to do whatever it takes to discourage false accusations."
I commend your overt continuing efforts in this spirit, M. You post about this a bit, and I see a lot of folks responding to (validating) this as an important issue.
If you have ever been falsely accused you may not only know how horrible a feeling it is, you may also know the fright and upset that can accompany that. Its not a small thing.

ankab, I'm still trying to figure out what you wrote here and what it means...

"On top os it all you are Newsweek. Ouch"

Make some sense...

@Bra1nk ..I generally agree..
When we begin to recognize that actions rooted in fear, instruments of society built out of our clinging in fear (including feelings of hate, and prejudice), ...do not work... then we may begin to dismantle our old thinking and build new instruments, rooted in what we seek to honor, that supports all elements of our society, and the land we live on.
I think rehab could be a baby step in that direction, ...it might could help us open our minds let loose of some of our fear(?).

We are in so deep, so many entrenched in old putrid thinking... you gotta wonder what it would take ...to change our minds.

Monkey_Films, So true "when there is profit there is motive. Motive to wrongfully incarcerate and to wrongfully increase sentences is the reason why America beats all other countries in incarcerating its people. Greed has ruined this country and bash me all you want but there are many countries who are better to their own people and kill less foreigners"

we also make money off of sick people (aka health care)

@Monkey_Films speaking to ...to imprison oneself "...in the bondage of hatred..."
...a powerful insight, indeed. Seems this is a difficult thing for many to grasp the value of. And its not just about forgiveness (however huge, and cornerstone, that is).. its about our choices of how we value or devalue life.
I am not a pacifist, but I would never wish to absolutely invalidate a life in an act against perceived evil. That is a horrible place to live.

An excellent point. teenagers don't sleep till noon because of attitude or from staying up late. It's a massive hormonal adjustment that is underway at that time of life when the body is going through changes and they have to do so.
It's not the same for everyone, like anything else.

It's not about being clueless, it's about the fact that there wasn't enough education in their lives. Who has said they were clueless? Education is needed for anyone to succeed in this country right? well, we need to educate our youth more!

Why sit here and bash them? Why not find a way to help them and let them live a better life? In the ghetto (where I grew up and came from) not everyone has a choice. People on TV might tell you they do, but they don't. Not when their parents are not around and the only people around are gangsters and drug dealers. I had those around me, but I saw them as weak minded individuals.. until I learned they only knew that life because they decided to "follow" the crowd and not stand up for themselves.

Again, this is an article about why our youths are locked up for LIFE for something they did when they were kids... not adults, but kids! If you don't want to give them a second chance, fine, that's your opinion... but why are we still allowing people like William Kennedy Smith, who was accused by 5 different women of sexual assault another chance after chance.

violin: Were you there? Are you a psychologist? IS the kid the perp? Was he wrongly convicted? You are quick to judge. I wouldn't want someone like you sitting in judgment of me.

hahaha yeahhh i dont think ill be the first one who says this but i think our country needs some updating and maybe a little help. sad to say but its true

Really? and when is that conversation brought up? when the kid is playing online? or maybe at dinner time? or when you see a movie maybe ?? I learned about life because my parents were around, sometimes... and I was always surrounded by positive figures... well sometimes... But not once, did rape ever come up in any conversation.

So it's not that anyone here wants to tell a kid, go rape someone and you'll be out by 18... NO... it's about the fact that even if the sex is consensual and the parents find out what you did, they can call the cops and have you arrested for rape because she's a minor.

So again, we need to TEACH before we PREACH here... Lets find a way to help kids like this one and future kids in every community, not do this again. Lets educate our youth!!

Wow, i'm sorry to hear that Keith! But I hope your story and many others come out and educate people who have never faced racism or a police officer stopping them for no reason and for only their color.

I had that happen when I was younger way to many times and it's not as simple as some people would want to believe. I'm older now and know better if the same situation happens again.

But I hope you and your family get a fair trial!!

I am very sorry to hear your story as well. It is not hard to believe. I hope things work out for your son. Try to get the best legal help you can.

Wow, that's terrible. Hope you folks pull thru it okay, and without him having to face time.

Yeah, keithponder my sympathies and well wishes, too.
Some people don't appreciate how good they have it by virtue of the circumstances they were born into. I sincerely hope it somehow works out for the best.

Clay, are you serious? at the age of 13, you're still playing video games and if your parents are working all the time and cant be there to help your or guide you, how is someone supposed to know these things??

I don't remember going to school and having a class on " Rape 101" and the reasons we shouldn't do it. That's why we need to inform and teach instead of PREACH here!!

It's easy to say he/she should know, but you don't know the circumstances or if the sex was consensual... and even if it is, they would still lock him up for rape.

Don't preach if you're not going to give a solution to the problem!

clayj- in that case should you be allowed to vote at 13? Should you be legally allowed to marry? To have sex? This isn’t an issue of someone making a clear decision all the time! I mean if you are sooo clear headed that you couldn’t possibly do something like… look up to an older kid who tells you it would be cool if you came with him to do something and then ended up robbing a gas station and things get out of control and someone gets shot then… you’re in jail and you didn’t even have time to blink. Life at 13 moves in a very different way. Your brain at that age, especially with boys, is not fully developed and full of hormones and feelings that you will one day grow out of. Also, if bad things are happening all around you that is exactly when you are more likely to make a bad decision because you have not yet realized the full scope of what that means. There are THOUSANDS of intricate reasons why a 13 year old is not an adult and some to say that it is hard to tell when you really become one- but in this country we say 18 but then don’t stick to it. So again, if a child of 13 cannot vote because we think he cannot understand enough of the world then the strange things that happen that sometimes land these kids in jail should be looked at differently as well.

And you can do five years for possession in some states, where you then socialise with career criminals and, as an impressionable young person, chances are you will become one yourself if you survive jail.
You had a youthful indiscretion and you're lucky it didn't destroy you. See the point?
BTW, I do not frown on pot. I am simply making a point.

Very smart, I don't think no one knew that here!

markle thank you for bringing up the important point of re-adjusting to the outside world. even if someone at this age does get out they have missed a crucial time of their life and will have a horrible time re-adjusting if they even try to. this is why so many who go in, go back in.

@Monkey_Films: "...saying he can't be fixed.... ...overprosecution..."
I feel those notions carry a bitter truth about ourselves... our 'collective' is so fear-driven that many of its individuals cannot see past what nurtured 'penalization' as a viable instrument in our society..the notion that deprivation (of life) is an answer to "stopping evil".
Yeah, I would agree that sometimes you gotta stop evil, however, I see the problem with this thinking "alone" is it is not balanced with a basis in nurturing society and its individuals (and life in general).
Deprivation is an act from fear alone... 'cause we have been too lazy to care about our people and 'figure it out' (and keep working on it) from the standpoint of what we might otherwise call our higher values, from which come tenants such as "no one left behind", "living in peace" (or "peaceful society"), "for the people", etc.

Why do I use the word deprivation? I referenced this in another post...
see it here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrections

It is a sad state that our system cannot support a "right thing to do" either for the perps or for the victims, because the system inflicts chaos, from chaotic foundation, a basis in fear.
I am gonna keep saying it... we need to change our minds. Deprivation is an empty philosophy... will lead to no wholesome solutions for us.

(how do I instruct current not to place a link at teh top of my reply post ?)

You're right... I should have checked what Newsweek wrote and should have added their ages properly before posting, but you should check your grammar, next time you decide on correcting someone.

Not adding and subtracting the correct information on someone other then your original content is bad, but bad grammar and spelling is worst, when you're the original commentator. Spell check before you comment next time bud!

S3th, one of the kids was 13... NOT 40 OR 35 OR 55, HE WAS 13...

At that age, he should have been given a second chance. No one here, I hope, is trying to diminish the fact, that he raped someone. But HE WAS 13 when he did it and the debate here is, why didn't he get another chance??

It was a crime, yes! but for a young boy who didn't know any better, how do you lock him up for life!!???? Or are you not looking at the whole picture here and think it's ok to lock up kids at that age for LIFE?? THINK before you post and stop acting like you're a saint and we are making excuses on why he shouldn't be there. We are trying to understand why, at such a young age is he still there.

Are you a SAINT? IF not, don't act like it's ok for kids to be locked up for life, if he was 20 plus, then hell, maybe I would have agreed with you.

Yo! Chill! I didn't make any comment as to the plight of the 13 year old boy here my friend. I simply pointed out the fact that the cultural elements that provide the breeding ground which would make a 13 year old boy believe it's okay to rape is completely missing.

Where the hell is this saint crap coming from. I didn't make any claims of sainthood here.

And out of curiosity, why is a rapists age, especially a difference of 7 years considered relevant to whether you agree with me? I'm a bit confused. Especially since I didn't state my opinion on the sentence, or age of the offender.

You said he deserved it, or didn't you??

S3th,
It is very interesting that you refer to a well known radical feminist Andrea Dworkin.

Radical feminists are well known for beliefs that “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." and this "Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." , and also this "In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent".

Radical feminism is a misandry (hatred of males) here are samples of Andrea Dworkin opinions.

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice."
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig."
“Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman."
"Men love death. In everything they make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives."

@ KSirys

I was referring to rape apologist that try to claim that the WOMEN who are raped deserved it.

@Motherfortruth

While I don't agree with all of what radical feminists say, you must admit that the piece that I linked to makes a great deal of sense!

S3th,

Another misandrist propaganda that supports radical feminism believes,
"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." (Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.)
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males."(Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.)

I am sorry that you find men-hating "makes a great deal of sense".

Come on MFT,

"I am sorry that you find men-hating "makes a great deal of sense"."

Please don't put words in my mouth!

I hate what many men do. I hate what the patriarchy has done to our society and how women have to try and operate within it's inequality.

That's what I hate. Not men. There are many men of honor!

S3th,
Sorry if I misunderstood your position, but if you post articles of well known misandry promoter Andrea Dworkin who believes that men who are falsely accused of rape will benefit from false imprisonment or that women are NOT CAPABLE of giving a consent and ALL intercourse even between married couple is RAPE tells me you support these beliefs as well. These beliefs are really sick and nothing more then misandry.
In addition, I believe people like Andrea Dworking portray women as weak and incapable gender and I disagree with that. I belie women can be strong and compassionate, emotional and rational, capable for taking care of themselves and responsible for themselves at the same time be a lady.

Finally found where this thread is buried, keep seeing this feminist discussion in my email. I wish Current would FIX THIS so links in your email took you to the correct part of a thread, even if its collapsed... Anyway...

In a conversation about feminism I think it may do well to point a little something out...
Seems to me that in any fight, say a fight for equality, the so-called underdog may have to muster everything she's got in order to make a difference for her cause. This means that the weight for the cause being fought for is going to have to be overbearing to even begin to make a difference. This suggests a huge "counter-balance" at play. Once the difference is balanced, continued overbearing weight simply only serves to keep or push things back out of balance again.

I will continue with the stated example, but we could be talking about any racist or prejudicial issues we face...
The importance of recognizing and acknowledging the following statement is my point really..., )
What can, and often does, happen, is that during the fight, say, against the 'evil of inequality' (built into our institutions and our minds by a huge body of men) ...we can begin to identify the issue personally with the other party, in this case, men, and buy into a sensability that because the inequality we (mainly women) are fighting is evil, and it is carried on mostly by men, that men are evil. This ultimately leads then to misunderstandings about one's own self identity.

So a fight for equality may for a time naturally and necessarily become a fight against men, but only until such a time as things actually "equal out". But then comes a time thru which we must process discharging all of the overbearing weight (baggage) that was generated... and I mean on both sides... going all the way back to where inequality was initially presumed and held, and addressing imbalanced feelings (and notions) that were developed during the fighting in order to survive, and naturally continuing to be harbored by the underdogs beyond things balancing out.

continue next...

continued...
Although some progress has been made..., because women have not yet fully achieved "equal treatment", and the fight has been going on so long, the pendulum is still swung over in the weighted zone of "anti-men consciousness" for many. Oh, and by the way, its a result of feeling horrible from mistreatment, so lets not forget that, and lets not forget how horrible it can be to be carrying feelings inside of hate or disdain for someone else (the opposite sex in this case).
As we seek healing for women (and men) as 'equality consciousness' is gradually embraced... in no reasonable way can this contrived consciousness be seen to be healthy, or persevered in for personal well being, even if it has been seen as necessary, or those feelings validated at times.

I have spoken with a lot of women about this, feminists, balanced-minded activists, all kinds. From what I can gather, feminism seems to be generally interpreted as implying "against men" in order to establish equality. And even where it is not carryied as an "anti-men consciousness", at its root its means pro-women, not pro-women-and-men. So there necessarily is a conflict in that mindset... as long as it includes "against men", or does not holistically speak to the women and men, then it will never serve to fully balance ...our emotions, our sense or ourselves, or our community as a whole.

In communities I have served in I have been observing the slow transition of the hard-feminist mindset for many women ...into some feeling like they can begin to breathe and let go of their fear and hurt and hate, and not feel they have to 'effort' so out of balance with their own true femininity, or holistic sense of self. Still, they must deal with the sh-t, but I see some coming around to not feeling they have to absolutely discredit men in order to be dealing with the mass of men who continue in their prejudiced (racist?) mindsets.

From what I have learned being around women who are healing is that Feminism is a tool that is time-dependent. It is not a desireable state of mind or emotion. It sprang up out of necessity, and may continue to be needed by many for some time to come, ...but it has definitely begun a transition (the long road) toward dissolution (dissolving). I see many who are struggling as to how to off-load that weight.

----------------------------
In a balanced society there, obviously, would be no need for feminism because there would be no fight for equality afoot (i.e., no issue would exist to support it). I relate to some of the sentiments in the previous video, however, I am not a male-feminist --> for I seek to live in balance, and honor men for what and who we are while honoring women for what and who they are, and that's not feminism.

I seek to be supportive of women and acknowledge the effort by many to not only strike equal balance, but also not have to cling to self-undoing senseabilities while they are having to carry that weight (to its conclusion, which is off-loading it finally).

I think this may be the motivation for what MotherforTruth is continuing on about here. She comes across (to me) as someone come to grips with off-loading the ugly weight (for all I know you never carried it, dear, but yuo'd have to say. and to everyone else, I have permission to call her "dear", so get off it ;^). Someone feeling strong enough to be the woman she is and continue on in the good fight, but without (continuing in) compromising herself.

Sorry for another long post... its a delicate traversal to speak to this without causing more confusion. I hope this speaks meaningfully to the dialog taking place here.

twohawks,

I am glad you found this thread.

I interpret Feminism as a movement for equality, fairness, mutual respect of both genders, respect and preservation of differences without mutation or overpower in both directions.

Unfortunately Feminism mutated into Radical Feminism which is nothing more then misandry, revenge, lack of femininity, degradation of men, complete ignorance and disrespect of differences between sexes. Women are lost between "women are best at everything" and "all women are victims". Girls and women should be empowered by self-respect, personal growth and high integrity. Instead Radical Feminists teach to FEEL successful by making the opposite sex - men feel useless, incompetent and submissive aka "sensitive".

Many women translate feminism into unhealthy competition, resulting in overpowering gender - females. Over the past 20 years man became more sensitive, involved fathers, more involved in equal share of household duties, many are stay at home dads. And yet many women go to the extremes to create superiority, utilizing lobbyists, law enforcement, federal funding, media conditioning.

@MFT... Okay, thanks, that gives me a better sense of where you are at with that. I didn't really want to be presuming to put words in anyone's mouth, so please forgive me if I took a little liberty there in expressing how you strike me, and I hope I wasn't too far off-base, definitions (or feminism) notwithstanding.

In a couple communities I have been working/participating in where there are a lot of women, this has become a huge issue.
One of the tools we use is looking at a word and seeing how it is affecting programming in our minds, our bodies, etc. (which is what our use of words does).
Strictly technically, I see nothing wrong with the word feminism, no more than I would, say, machismo, i.e, there is nothing technically wrong with words that speak to (features of) our uniquenesses, granted.

So just speaking to how this strikes me... While I can accept the management and interpretation you lend to it (Feminism vs Radical Feminism), well, possibly one of the things that has influenced us to move away from the word in general is it is so close to another oftentimes used word born from this one, feminazi (and I am talking about the women using this word - a lot) ...that we just figured we could let it go and find better "replacement programming" to be working with ;^)

So when you, S3th, made the comment that it is not a four letter word, and I see this arguement going on, and I see this video you offered (thank you) ...while on the one hand I could agree, on the other hand I see the word seemingly continuing to cause confusion, creating partisan separaton, and getting in the way of facilitating plain understanding...
..so I am thinking, well, no, I do not agree... it has almost become a four letter word, and so lets speak to what that is about and get that (labelling-programming) out of the way.

Hope that makes some sense.

twohawks,

Thank you for your comments. Please elaborate on your position, please.
I would like to clarify a few things
1) I did not post the Video, and 2) I did not refer to Feminism as a 4 letter word.

I do stress the difference between Feminism and Radical Feminism but honestly believe Feminism no longer exists but mutated into Radical Feminism. It is misandry instead of desire for equality.

Clarity...
TwoHawks had written: "So when you, S3th, made the comment..."
...referring to the person who actually wrote those comments ;^)

...When you ask me to elaborate, I am uncertain what specifically you may be asking me to address. Please let me know what is unclear from my communication.

http://themasculinemystique.blogspot.com/2008/06/list-of-50-male-privileges.html

Those of us suffering from MALE PRIVELEGE will never fully understand feminism. And if we start, there are some real slicksters out there who will take the radical element, or the sex-pos element, or whatever it takes to keep them darn women in their damn place.

You are second class citizens womenfolk, so get used to it. Stop screaming you want equality, we gave you the goddamned vote for christs sakes. We even let a few of you into the legislative process. What the f@ck else do you want? We men can't have the babies, so you'll have to just keep letting us f@ck you! And if you don't want us to, don't wear those short skirts, and low-cut tops, cause then you are just asking for it now aren't you?

Misandry....Hmmm...How in the world could women ever even comtemplate hating men. We don't do anything to bring such hate on to us now do we?

Men don't abuse women. Don't rape them. Don't throw acid in their faces. Don't cut their clitoris's off in insane cultural rites. Don't rape them, then stone them when they go to the authorities to report the rape. Don't kill them! Don't leer at them and then tell each other how we'd like to HIT that. We men always look at women with respect of their individuality, intelligence, and unique desire to be an independant being with full authority over their bodies. We don't look at women as a place to put our peckers....NOT US.....

S3th,
Did you graduate with highest honors in Women Studies? Here is the anger and hatred.
Thank you for the conversation.

I graduated from delsions that women are treated equally. I woke up when I realized that the greatest fear a man has of women is that they may make fun of them, or reject them. And then realized womens greatest fears of men is that they may rape or kill them.

I guess male privelege is just lost on most men? It's difficult to question your priveleges when they benefit you so...

Everyone, man, woman and child should get angry at what is going on in the world. And everyone, expecially men should do anything and everything they can to protect their mothers, sisters, daughters, etc. from misogyny. As well as speak out/protest/unite, for an end to the inequality thrust upon women by the patriarchy. That we haven't done everything we can to end the horrors thrust upon women is a sad reflection on humanity as a whole!

Or, MFT, are you one of those who believe women have it just great in this world?

I am not naive to believe that one gender has all the glory and the other has all suffering. BOTH men and women suffer but differently, BOTH men and women are equally capable of violence, BOTH men and women can be victims of violence. Please open your eyes and see that anger and violence will not create more understanding or compassion between genders. Some people are capable of identifying the problems and look for solutions while others are only capable of looking for someone to blame for their painful experiences in life. You keep on bringing up rape and I am quite familiar with the statistics. I feel pain for the woman who was raped and I also feel pain for the man who was falsely accused of rape. There are many incidents of “rape” fall in the gray area. For example, a young woman comes over to a man’s home or a dorm room, and acts in a way that sends a very specific message and they have sex. The next morning she regrets it. Was she raped? Was he seduced? Or was this a consequence of their consensual actions? Our laws today will incarcerate this man based only on the feeling of the woman’s regret. In fact a woman can “decide” 2 years later that the sex they had was “rape”. Come on… If I was a man I probably would be afraid to come even close to any women for the fear of her CURRENT or FUTURE motives. They may simply breakup and OMG she feels dumped… All while women want commitment from men!!!???? Gender equality is not only for women it also applies to men.

Thank you for putting this up there Mario! I just wanted people to be informed on this subject because of kids being involved...

Thanks!

I always scratch my head over this, KSirys...

Thank you for posting up the 'philosophy and methodology' of post placements, Mario. Maybe should be linked in the FAQ (?).
Comment: Considering folks are always commenting on how, for instance, a post with lots of views and comments is not coming up high in the 'ranks'... wouldn't it be prudent for Current to work toward designing filters that users can apply so they can change the way they are sorting content? I mean, aside from the concern noted, or others like it, this would certainly lend a powerful tool for combing through information in the various zones in different useful ways.

For instance, I would love it if I could go to the News Page, and choose Sort By
First - the Number of Comments
Second - the Number of Views
Third - The number of Positive votes

...and variations on that, like...
First - the Number of Views
Second - the Number of Comments
Third - The number of Positive votes

...KINDS OF THINGS...

What do you think? What does the Current Staff think? And how about you other folks here?

Then why the fuck are so many people still immigrating here? I'm not a conservative, and you have a point, but the US still beats the hell out of most other countries.

Monkey_Films Right on.