And your solution is....?

good jobs have been leaving america for 30 years, dont blame that on obama

Yes, and this is why we must hold his feet to the fire. At least the White House takes phone calls. Bush didn't.

....but Bush.

That is pretty much all Obama supporters have at this point. The thing they don't realize is that Obama has pretty much kept, and even expanded many Bush policies.

How exactly? You're still here posting your bullshit. Seems like you're pretty free to me.

name one instance where your freedoms have been taken away since obama took office.

What are you taking about?

No I haven't. Please point me to a reference.

Harvard did a study that found that 45,000 people die every year for lack of health care insurance. We know there are many more who die from denial of care even when they have insurance. There are over 50 million now in the U.S. who have no health care insurance. That is up from 48 million a few months ago and continues to rise.

Yes, this includes illeagal aliens, millions of them, working and living in the U.S. as productive members of society and paying millions in sales taxes. The problem there is that the immigration department doesn't work. It takes people 15 to 20 years to become citizens once they apply for it. So what would you do with them? Deport them all? Allow no one to immigrate to the U.S? How about we round them all up and shoot them like the Nazis did the Jews? Does that work for you?

You have all kinds of complaints but no solutions.

I wish the bloody media would say what you said. People are much more free to protest now. Republicans support the Republican regardless or policy just like good totalitarians.

I've heard the VA is considered the best health care in the world, and I heard this from people who use it and from doctors. But I've also heard people like you put it down. How can there be such polarization? People either love it or hate it. I conclude that the naysayers are just trying to give it a bad rep because it's a perfect example of what we need in this country and what we need is to eliminate the for-profit insurance industry.

But even if you accept your point that it's bad. It has to be better than nothing at all, and 50 million in this country have nothing at all.

Who the hell is threatening your freedom?

Obama has stated he will not sign a bill that adds one penny to the deficit and he will not sign a bill that adds any expense to average Americans. Of course, if you make over $250,000 you'll probably get a little tax increase, or if you're a CEO at CIGNA, you'll lose your job and have to live off your multi-hundred-million dollar golden parachute, or if you're an actuary you'll have to find a career that people actually need in this world instead of one that sadistically kills them for you to make a living.

Jon,

Please tell me you can't be this big of a kool aid drinker. Obama won't add to the deficit. Do you realize he has already spent far more than Bush could have ever thought of spending? Almost all of his economic projections have been off by billions.

Wow, people really do suck up every word that comes out of his mouth.

LLL i would say that YOU are the one drinking the kool aid. that is unless you like getting financially raped by multibillion dollar corporations, are working for them or are just plain stupid and obstinate.

There was a recent Harvard study that cited these stats. This is common knowledge among educated thinking people.

I'm sorry I made a correction. Thanks for proof reading. The correct stats are as follows:

Over 50,000 die every year for lack of health care and more for denial of care despite having health insurance. That's well over 100 deaths per day. 50 million in the U.S. have no health care at all.

Hey if I can piss off a few right wing nuts it makes my day.

so, 36,500 preventable deaths a year is now considered taking care of the people? Let us know when one of your family is one of that statistic, I'll send a condolence card.

tip of the iceberg

FoosMaster,

This is one of the craziest posts I've ever read. You can't be serious about only government can protect us from corporatism. This statement boggles my mind.

Government is the reason corporatism has expanded at the expense of the people. Why do you think corporations hand out millions in donations to politicians every year? It isn't because they feel generous and don't expect anything in return.

Universal health care will bankrupt this country. But politicians haven't practiced fiscal responsibility for awhile so why start now?

I never said that politicians were innocent, most Are owned by corporations. But I would Much rather have government heallthcare for ALL than to continue with the 'Greed Is Good" corporate insurance companies that only care about the bottom line. Health Insurance companies need to 'Die Quickly!"

Yes. The root of the problem is that health care insurance has to be profitable for the health industry's bottom line. Remove the health insurance industry, replace it with government controlled insurance (just like Medicare), and the problem is solved.

libertyforall is once again discounting anything and everything the government does as wrong and bad. What are you an anarchist? Would you abolish government? What is your genius solution? Allow the health insurance industry to continue to raise rates, deny care, and even force people to buy insurance as they have included in the present bill (giving them an effective bailout)?

Something has to be done to get the health insurance industry under control. Only the government can do that. As bad as it is, and as corrupt as it is with its bank bailouts, we only have the government to protect us. If it isn't working it's up to us to pressure Congress, elect independents, and make the government work like it should. Your only other choice is to leave the country or maybe start a revolution. So what's your master plan?

JonRaymond,
No I am not a anarchist. I guess you could say I’m a minarchist like most of the Founding Fathers. I am someone who believes the Constitution is a pretty good document. One that maybe we should decide to follow. That’s so 200 years ago though.

And no, the root of the problem isn’t the free market. Insurance companies make on average a 3% profit. And you think that’s criminal? The laws established by government have allowed insurance companies to have free reign without actually allowing a free market health care system to emerge. It is simply a myth that we currently have a free market. The free market also offers incentives for good service. Government ran health care does not.

Only the government can protect us? Please tell me that is a joke because that is one of the saddest statements I have ever seen typed on this website. Although it does seem to be the American mentality these days.

Revolution of the minds is what this country needs right now. However, as long as there are Republican and Democrat sheeple who keep electing these people then nothing will ever change. As long as there are big government statists saying “only government can save us” then nothing will change.

I will refer to Adams with my response:

"What do We mean by the Revolution? The War? The War, that was no part of the Revolution, it was only an Effect and a Consequence of it. The Revolution was in the minds of the people."

sounds libertarian to me.

No DC. U.S. Senate office. The video is on Micheal Moore's YouTube channel and cites info coming from Capitol Police.

Thanks dude.. i live in CT so i figured its in DC.. there is so much NOTHING going on here it is appalling....We need to do this in CT, with the backing of hartford residents, but the apathy makes it impossible

That is not the true spirit of America, sure, the protest and free speech part is, but they are calling for unconstitutional measures that are against the law of economics. Instead of cutting of government's corporate protectionist measures, they simply call for more centralization that is against the 10th amendment while at the same time abusing the Commerce Clause. The issue is anti-American, it is pro-slavery. Peace

And I suppose you would abolish Medicare (a socialized medicine government program) just as Boehner would.

The only enemy that can do anything to a corporation is the Government!

Freer markets? Like the ones that brought down Wall Street and ended in eternal corporate welfare bailouts? What cool aid are you drinking?

JonRaymond,

I would have to ask what Kool Aid you are drinking. Those businesses (most banks) were enabled by awful laws passed by the government. How much oversight did Fannie and Freddie have? Wasn't old chubby lisp on the television telling us a couple months before Freddie and Fannie failed that they were financially fine?

By the way, businesses fail. That's why its called the free market. It's not called the never failing market.

Guess who bailed out those failed businesses for their bad business practices while giving the CEOs and leadership millions to line their pockets? Yea, that was the government.

Where did this delusional idea that government is the great good develop from? It almost makes me want to puke.

St. Ronald the Corporatist is the one who helped corporatism along to its present position, where all of us are held hostage. And he is the one who cut the balls off government, and demonized it, for the sole purpose to push corporatization.GW and Clinton just continued the privatization that ends up costing more for taxpayers and enriching the few. Look at Blackwater.And KBR. It is government VS. corporations, or was until the corrupt corporatists bought the corrupt legislatures.

Oh yes (sarcasm ) all we need is to get rid of the shreds of regulation left andthe markets will take care of all our problems. The bankers and Wall Street gang or parasites who earn hundreds of millions a year will develope a concern for all of America and do the right thing. lol A bimbo on Fox said that the economic crises was caused because there was too much regulation or corporations. Lots of wing nuts are still pushing that.line.
Halliburton is getting all our American tax dollars and they located in Dubai so they could avoid taxes, while WE are giving them millions and they have stolen millions.

Changing corporate laws of priviledge could solve problems and end this gov vs corp debate because the excesses could be stopped.

libertyforall
You are equating big business with the government. Wrong. These are two separate sectors that balance each other out (or should). With comprehensive effective health care reform that has a robust public option, we will have the government sector in competition with the private sector. That is the ideal balance. Instead of the health insurance industry acting as a monopoly and holding citizens hostage for their health the government will keep them honest by providing an option at reasonable cost. But we need amendments to the current bill for this to happen. Without those amendments then I would agree that the current bill should be shelved.

I agree about the banks and the government's continual bailout policy for Wall Street. But that is not the health care issue. Just because the government is in bed with Wall Street that doesn't mean everything they do will be more of the same (though we have to watch out they don't). In fact this very issue is what the debate is all about. You can't throw all politicians into one bucket and say they are all rotten to the core. They aren't, and they don't all agree on what to do here. You know that.

There are actually members of congress who are trying to pass effective health care legislation that will counter big business, cut off the health care insurance industry monopoly, and guarantee affordable health care for all Americans with no increase to the deficit. In fact these plans will reduce the deficit by reforming the industry and eliminating the private health insurance companies (their fraud, excessive rates, exemptions, and profits at all our expense) that are the root of the problem.

But to do absolutely nothing to reform the corrupt health care insurance industry is the worse possible scenario.

Congressmen Weiner and Kucinich have amendments (including HR626) that will remove the private criminal insurance industry from health care completely (or at least allow states that option). These are Congressmen that are not in bed with Wall Street or the health insurance industry. Their legislation would provide affordable health care to all Americans, not just a percentage, as the current bill does.

So your bumper sticker mentality that anything the government does will be bad is just that, bumper sticker mentality. There are people in Congress that can revive our democracy if we will just support them and help them, as these protesters are doing.

>"That's the problem, these people only see in terms of corporate versus government.....which is not the paradigm that exists. In all reality, it's the People and freedom Versus Government/Corporations....."<

A strange thing for you to say since the primary effect of Libertarian concepts is to remove protections from the rampages of corporations. Corporate America lovers Libertarians. It's the philosophy of freedom of predation.

Sorry for the confusion. It has become a standard practice in the past few weeks with these sit-ins to call the protesters by the name of the person they are protesting, such as the Pelosi 9 in San Francisco. So I am assuming anyone reading is either up on that or will figure this out after reading, as you did.

You can bet there will more such protests in the coming days and weeks, maybe months. Welcome to the new American revolution. Healthcare for All! By and for the people not the corporations!

But constituents are hardly random people, as if their existence is meaningless. This is the problem. It's the people that matter, not the staffers, not the pundits, not the freaking politicians; and people like you are what's wrong with this country.

both parties are the same, except Ron Paul that is, you won't find a lobbyist lined up at his door.....he even gives back his congressional bonus to the taxpayers.

Five have been released. But four others vow to remain until they get a meeting with Lieberman. Typically now with arrests like this around the country, they are released after a few hours of processing. But if they refuse to give their name or cooperate they stay in jail. Eventually though after a few days they have been released in these other cities, sometimes against their will.

The police have been very cooperative from what I've seen. They have even sympathized with protesters saying that they have the same concerns about health care for their families. it is the insurance companies and in this case Lieberman's staff who order the arrests in complaint of trespassing.\

However one insurance company in the south allowed protesters to stay as long as they like (which they did for 24 hours) and stated they too want to see reform.

How is Lieberman a democrat turncoat?

How did the Bush family steal the election?

We need more public outrage against any legislature who intentionally gets fat on corporate money and harms the people he is supposed to help.
I just wish we could get to the point that we were as organized in a grass roots manner, and a non-partisan manner like the French.
They get together and have general strikes when something harms the majority regardless of party.
But thousands of years of oppression by kings, and feudal lords have given them the tetosterone to fight for their lilberty and rights

Yeah remember WWII