Community | November 09, 2009 | 65 comments

Secondary PTSD a likely Factor in Ft Hood Shooting

source: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/9/when_the_war_comes_homes_iraq

JonRaymond
Hasan likely suffered from secondary PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) in listening to the many troops' horrid stories of war as they came to him after returning from war. Fort Hood Private Michael Kern who knew of Hasan tells of his own problems dealing with his killing a child, and how stories like this had to effect Hasan.

Watch the video: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/9/when_the_war_comes_homes_iraq

Hasan had tried in vain to leave the military but there was no way once you are deployed as the private says.

Hasan's cousin tells Amy Goodman, "About a week before the incident, he hired a lawyer in order to leave the Army, get married, and live his life. But they rejected his request and asked him to go to Afghanistan. This was the biggest shock for him. So, there’s another reason why he did what he did, not just because of the harassment of the soldiers. There is another reason."

An independent journalist and author Dahr Jamail describes how the military pressures troops to "suck it up" and not admit to any PTSD, which indicates the problem is a "rampant problem." According to Jamail, "And even those that do get help and go get treatment, they find themselves being put back into action anyway. As of last year, more than 43,000 soldiers already listed as medically unfit to be deployed were deployed anyway. We have a situation right now in Iraq where 12 percent of combat troops in Iraq, and then over in Afghanistan 17 percent of combat troops in Afghanistan, are already on psychotropic meds to help them sleep at night and because they have PTSD and severe depression. And this is just that we know of. So, they’re encouraged not to talk about it, not to get help. And then when they do, they simply don’t tend to get the treatment that they need."

Private Kern went on to say that he didn't think anyone at Ft. Hood saw Hasan's religion as the problem, "And even those that do get help and go get treatment, they find themselves being put back into action anyway. As of last year, more than 43,000 soldiers already listed as medically unfit to be deployed were deployed anyway. We have a situation right now in Iraq where 12 percent of combat troops in Iraq, and then over in Afghanistan 17 percent of combat troops in Afghanistan, are already on psychotropic meds to help them sleep at night and because they have PTSD and severe depression. And this is just that we know of. So, they’re encouraged not to talk about it, not to get help. And then when they do, they simply don’t tend to get the treatment that they need.:

Hasan's lawyer requested he not be interrogated until further investigation and doubts there can be a fair trial in light of Obama's Tuesday visit and public statement made by the post commander.
______________________________________________________________________
Retired Col. John P. Galligan said he was contacted Monday by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's family and was headed to an Army hospital in San Antonio to meet Hasan.

"Until I meet with him, it's best to say we're just going to protect all of his rights," Galligan said. "There's a lot of facts that still need to be developed, and the time for that will come in due course."

"You've got his commander in chief showing up tomorrow," Galligan said. "That same kind of publicity naturally creates an issue as to whether you find a fair and impartial forum, whether that's in the military or even if it were in a federal forum."

Hasan, 39, is accused of opening fire on the Army post on Thursday, killing 13 people and wounding 29 before civilian police shot him in the torso. He was taken into custody and eventually moved to Brooke Army Medical Center, where he was in stable condition Monday and able to talk, hospital spokesman Dewey Mitchell said.
______________________________________________________________________
But Hasan has not yet been charged. Meanwhile the AP reports that a 9/11 terrorist contact praised Hasan's actions, which exacerbates the widespread hatred toward Hasan and is exactly the kind of reporting that makes for this issue of him being unable to get a fair trail.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihGepAkECGoDagETVBMpPb3w7Y3gD9...

Military justice experts agree that this trial will be a long complicated proceeding. His physical and mental health will first have to be evaluated and will likely cause a delay of many months. He will be tried under the military justice system, not civilian law, unless there are findings that he was operating as an international terrorist, in which case he'll be transferred for federal prosecution under ant-terrorism laws.

If he remains in military custody it's unlikely he'll get the death penalty since the military justice system's lengthy appeals process has effectively thwarted all executions since 1961.

Hasan has not yet been charged with any crime either civilian or military. Richard Durbin, chief of the criminal section for the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Antonio declined to comment on Sunday.

Because of the high publicity the Army will offer his defense a "wide latitude."

The Houston Chronicle reports the following:
____________________________________________________________________
“We're in for a long haul,” said Scott L. Silliman, a retired career JAG officer in the Air Force who now directs Duke University Law School's Center on Ethics and National Security....

What's likely to occur is a court-martial under Article 2 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, to punish offenses allegedly committed by a man wearing a U.S. military uniform against other military personnel on a military base. The Army's Criminal Investigation Division is responsible for recommending charges, prompting the military equivalent of a grand jury, known as an Article 32 hearing, where both prosecutors and defense can present evidence.

Those results would be reviewed by base commander Cone, who would decide whether to convene a court-martial. The 12-person jury would be composed of officers higher in rank than Hasan – lieutenant colonels and above.

Under the rules of military justice, Hasan is permitted to have a lawyer present during interrogation, but former military lawyers say that the Army psychiatrist cannot be questioned by Army Criminal Investigation Division agents until doctors formally deem him medically and mentally able.

“A doctor would have to certify that the suspect is competent to decide whether to remain silent, speak to investigators or ask for a lawyer,” Silliman said. “He would have to be able to make an intelligent and informed decision before waiving any of his rights.”

....One military justice expert also predicted that an insanity defense is unlikely. Silliman said the standard for an insanity defense under the Uniform Code of Military Justice is that the suspect “cannot comprehend the wrongfulness of his actions.”
____________________________________________________________________
Hasan's family demands that he be allow to speak to a lawyer before investigators or any mental health evaluation.

The Chronicle also reports that the trial will likely be moved from the Ft. Hood location because of the "climate" there and the large number of local victims.

Image: Kileen prepares for Obama's visit Tuesday
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6710592.html
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65 comments // Secondary PTSD a likely Factor in Ft Hood Shooting

  • manfreddrake
  • ChrisWT
  • mario_a
  • JohnA
    • 0
      JohnA  

    • Love how Current keeps changing the title of this thread to make it more sympathetic to the poor victim who shot and killed 13 American soldiers in cold blood.

    • 2 years ago
  • Toughth
    • 0
      Toughth  

    • If some of the investigation comes up with out of CONUS contacts for this murderer then even more can be bought against those that would harm our society. If the investigation shows that he acted as an agent for a foreighn power then he is also a traitor to his oath and his nation. His conviction could convict many others. May they all hang together.

    • 2 years ago
  • artemis6
  • samthesixth
  • snarly
  • Nephwrack
    • 0
      Nephwrack  

    • @Ares, in response to this comment...

      ""You can bet your ass that half the people working in uniform at the Pentagon would love to shoot this asshole personally.

      "There's a little thing in there they call the right to a trial by jury."

      There's also this little thing called vengeance, something that men of action embrace, and liberals shun.""

      so what next then Ares? now we free thinkers and liberals are terrorists? or at least equated to them? JonRaymond is absolutely right, we start with the summary executions, then what, what about gas chambers, mass executions, maybe concentration camps for those who don't believe in the "American Way?" how about forced labor for not paying your taxes or for being "unpatriotic", hmm maybe we can start listening in to everyone's conversations and blogs and comments on news sites to determine who is and who isn't a terrorist before they ever make up their mind? we wouldnt even need that if we could get 2 citizens to accuse anyone of being a potential dissident, especially if we dont like said 'dissident' in the first place. heck we can even threaten the accusers' families if they dont want to testify, after all they might be in league with the troublemaker in the first place. perhaps we can start pre-judging before crimes are even committed, and save ourselves even the pretense of a trial, (after all it does cost taxpayer dollars) and then execute undesirables based on a profile of whether or not they might be guilty due to their beliefs.

      oh, wait, that's already been done.

      so yes, keep your cojones, your firearms and your "gawd given" freedoms.

      i'll keep my integrity, my weapons, and my due process.

      you're completely missing the point, ares. no one is siding with your "terrorist", we're siding with due process and the rule of law. chew on that for a minute, god of war.

      and before you say i sympathize with what this guy did, check yourself, because you're absolutely wrong. but without due process we become exactly what all the wingnuts are afraid of, a fascist dictatorship.

      .and i suggest you read the article. real "men of action", like, say, the United States Army, have rules, especially concerning "vengeance". true men of action think things through and decide on the course that is just, and they don't go off half-cocked. that's exactly what your "terrorist" did, and look what it got him.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ajil
  • SleepDirt
  • JohnA
  • ReganMann
    • 0
      ReganMann  

    • The Human has its Constitution and its Instinct.

      If we gave him a fair trial and he does not get the full justice he deserves, we are not Human.
      If we shot him in the head which every piece of our moral being tells us to do, we would not be Human.

      We as Humans, need the answers from this man. An "unfair trial" seems the only Human thing we can do.

      Premeditated Murder is an undertaking only fit for those who should be tortured for the rest of their lives. I hope this man rots in Hell.

    • 2 years ago
  • manfreddrake
  • ii386
    • 0
      ii386  

    • I think there is a lot more information and understanding that could be wrangled out of him during the course of a fair trial...and then his conviction and execution. Is that agreeable?

    • 2 years ago
  • LowShred
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  

    • I do understand about the need for a fair trial, but we need to send a loud and clear message that this type of chickenshit behavior is not going to be tolerated.

      If realize that we need answers, and if this was a guy who had gone on a shooting rampage because he was pissed at the US government policies about war, military service benefits, healthcare, globalization, I could have some sympathiy maybe even seen him as some sort of freedom fighter, but for him to scream honors to his "invisible man" in the sky by declaring the greatness of Allah, I think that speaks volumes as to his motivation. That is why I made the earlier comment about summary execution.

      In this case, what else do we really need to know?

    • 2 years ago
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  

    • FAIR TRIAL WTF???????

      What possible defense or justification could this terrorist have for the heinous crimes he has committed? Why someone didn't just put a bullet in his head to save us the cost of trial is beyond my comprehension. Someone like this chickenshit person should have been summarily executed.

    • 2 years ago
  • clownpuncher
  • lordsbassman
  • Toughth
    • 0
      Toughth  

    • As a commisioned officer he is entitled to the rank and privliges due him up to the time of a general courts marshall. The way military justic works is that when tthe offiicer in charge of the investigation walks up to the accused and reads the charges they are allready sure that the accused is guilty. The officer in charge will give the accused a copy of the rights he is entitled to. When the court is convened there will be a jag defense officer and a jag prosecuter as well as three officers searving as judges. Unless the accused is tried by a civil court there will not be a jury. After the sentence is handed down, if it is a capital offence, wjll be passed up the chain of command for reveiw. Once all reveiw in the command structure is finished then it can by special request be brought to the civil system, which is the commander in chief. Upon denial of clemancy the sentance will usualy be carried out. Until the sentance is carried out he will still carry the rank unless part of the sentence is stripping the convict of rank and privleges and being dishonerably dishcarged. It is still a very fair system and all the Ts are crossed and Is doted just to keep everything on the up and up.

    • 2 years ago
  • JohnA
  • JonRaymond
    • 0
      JonRaymond  
    • Toughth:

      In this case with all the publicity, and cries from people to just hang him, and the growing fear of reprisals from the military Muslims, the Army is taking it slow and intends to do a physical and psychiatric evaluation first. They will also move him to somewhere away from ft Hood in hopes of getting a fairer trial, or at least to give that appearance. It will be months before the trial even starts.

      So if you want to delay it longer keep yelling for him to be hanged.

    • 2 years ago
  • somogibbs
  • JohnA
  • LowShred
  • clownpuncher
  • mojojuju
    • 0
      mojojuju  
    • JohnA:

      That's right, in the liberal mind the offender is the victim. That's just the way things are going nowadays so get used to it.

      I know it seems kind of backwards, but it's the new hip way of justice.

      Perhaps Mr. Hasan should be "rehabilitated" instead of punished and made into a brand spanking new productive member of society. He could work with kids or something. Help me out liberals - doesn't a poor misunderstood mass murderer deserve another chance?

    • 2 years ago
  • ii386
    • 0
      ii386  

    • I cannot believe that some people really think that a sufficient amount of evidence and hatred for someone means they don't deserve a fair trial.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ares
  • carmalite
    • 0
      carmalite  

    • II do not care for Joe Lieberman but he is corrrect about the military having all the sign and symptoms that this man was mentally ill and a loose cannon and they just IGNORED it. Did they enhable this by their carelessness? Most of us here would have heard the alarms when he was expressing anger against the military on the internet. Plus he was taking antidepressants and asked to be released from service.
      Why were they so careless? I don't like Lieberman but he is correct about this.

    • 2 years ago
  • manfreddrake
  • LadybugLady
  • clownpuncher
  • Ihatethemall
    • 0
      Ihatethemall  

    • As much as I think this POS needs a bullet in the head. He also needs a trial.
      Once he is found guilty....Lock and load man. lets get on with this.

    • 2 years ago
  • LowShred
    • 0
      LowShred  

    • Countless witnesses saw him do it. No, it's not going to be a fair trial. There doesn't even need to be one. When you're caught in the act and taken down, you're pretty much guilty.

    • 2 years ago
  • SleepDirt
  • Ares
    • 0
      Ares  

    • Traitors do not deserve trials. This guy shouldn't be alive right now. I'd better see a record setting short jury deliberation.

    • 2 years ago
  • EmperorThan
  • Manatee_man
  • JonRaymond
  • snarly
    • 0
      snarly  
    • EmperorThan:

      but according to this scum, islam trumps the constitution, so why should he benifit from it? He killed an innocent, unborn child. Isnt there something in Islam against that?

    • 2 years ago
  • Manatee_man
    • 0
      Manatee_man  

    • you relize they had the best fucking military doctors at that base ASAP just for him right? they wouldn't let someone this big die in this time in history surrounded by TERRORIST and DEATH.

    • 2 years ago
  • JonRaymond
  • Manatee_man
  • Manatee_man
  • hardknockxpert
  • Nettle
  • ChrisWT
  • mario_a
  • nursediesel
  • JonRaymond
  • hardknockxpert
    • 0
      hardknockxpert  
    • nursediesel:

      And they definitely need to make sure due process is followed and all asses are covered so that the "Major" (as he is still being called) does not get off on some loophole or technicality. I sure hope there are no glitches so this guy can get a fair trial here in AMERICA.

    • 2 years ago
  • JonRaymond
    • 0
      JonRaymond  
    • nursediesel:

      What we have here is a military that is trying to play two side against the middle. They want to have Muslims in the military to help them navigate the Muslim nations we fight in, and they want our Muslims to be happy that they serve. At the same time they have a standing policy of overt racism towards Muslims in the ground war so that troops can see them as dehumanized and therefore are more easily able to deal with killing innocent Muslims and families.

      The problem is that when they have a Muslim in the military who can see through this double standard and who is then painted as the enemy. They are then called out and have to no where to turn.

    • 2 years ago
  • JohnA
    • 0
      JohnA  

    • Disgusting. Hang the piece of trash from the nearest tree and be done with him. We're going to waste time and taxpayer dollars on scum like him. That's what happens when you get an administration more worried about not offending anyone's little feelings than standing up for it's own troops.

    • 2 years ago
  • JonRaymond
    • 0
      JonRaymond  
    • JohnA:

      An adminstration that actually has respect for the Constituion of the United States that our President and troops swore to uphold and defend.

      There's a little thing in there they call the right to a trial by jury. Of course in this case Hasan is in the military and will likely be tried under the military justice system. So if you have a problem with this, tell it to the Pentagon.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ares
    • 0
      Ares  
    • JohnA:

      You can bet your ass that half the people working in uniform at the Pentagon would love to shoot this asshole personally.

      "There's a little thing in there they call the right to a trial by jury."

      There's also this little thing called vengeance, something that men of action embrace, and liberals shun.

    • 2 years ago
  • JonRaymond
  • Ares
    • 0
      Ares  
    • JohnA:

      If you call societies that coddle homicidal radicals as misunderstood victims "civilized," then you can keep them to yourself. I'll keep my testicles, firearms, and freedom. Unbelievable that people are siding with a terrorist.

    • 2 years ago
  • Ricky84
    • 0
      Ricky84  
    • JohnA:

      "An adminstration that actually has respect for the Constituion of the United States that our President and troops swore to uphold and defend."

      LOL WUT? Did you forget about indefinite detention, warrent-less wiretapping, rendition and all those federal employees that got away with torture? This guy should consider himself lucky to be tried under the code of military justice and not under anti-terrorism laws.

    • 2 years ago
  • SleepDirt
    • 0
      SleepDirt  
    • JohnA:

      "Did you forget about indefinite detention, warrent-less wiretapping, rendition and all those federal employees that got away with torture? This guy should consider himself lucky to be tried under the code of military justice and not under anti-terrorism laws."

      OK except for that and those drones and all that other stuff.

    • 2 years ago
  • JonRaymond
    • 0
      JonRaymond  
    • JohnA:

      Things aren't so simply black and white. Yes Obama has continued many of the Bush policies. But he is a "common ground" President looking to have Republican support. Why is absolutely beyond me. But compared to Bush he does follow the Constitution within this framework, unlike Bush and Cheney who overtly flaunted that they ignored the Constitution.

      So when you complain about the current administration not hauling off and torturing or shipping off suspects to black ops locations, what you see there is some kind of attempt to uphold the Constitution and human rights and follow due process. That's what I'm talkin' bout.

    • 2 years ago
  • Vierotchka
  • Ares
    • 0
      Ares  
    • JohnA:

      "Ares, vengeance is possibly the worst, lowest and most evil of human sentiments, and those who promulgate it reveal their true and ugly nature."

      Is it lonely up there in your castle of self-righteousness? Try convincing the families of the men this asshole killed to agree with you.

    • 2 years ago
  • FishaHouse777
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