Fort Hood suspect asked military to give Muslims an out

My mind some how connected this poem to this subject , If any one sees an un-American twist it would be unintentional mistake on my part, the poem just sent me on a trip
John G. Saxe, the American writer best known for his poem The Blind Men and the Elephant, used the phrase in his Sonnet to a Clam, in the late 1840s:

Inglorious friend! most confident I am
Thy life is one of very little ease;
Albeit men mock thee with their similes,
And prate of being "happy as a clam!"
What though thy shell protects thy fragile head
From the sharp bailiffs of the briny sea?
Thy valves are, sure, no safety-valves to thee,
While rakes are free to desecrate thy bed,
And bear thee off, - as foemen take their spoil,
Far from thy friends and family to roam;
Forced, like a Hessian, from thy native home,
To meet destruction in a foreign broil!
Though thou art tender, yet thy humble bard
Declares, O clam! thy case is shocking hard!

The phrase originated in the US and possibly before 1834. In 1848 the Southern Literary Messenger - Richmond, Virginia

.LadybugLady, how does it make sense to let anyone discriminate against who they "can," kill or who they can't by their religion? That sounds like WWII shit to me.
A bad guy is a bad guy and either you obey the army or don't join, but the President decides who the bad guys are, not Mohammed. And if you don't like the army's cheif, definately don't join for the financial benefits, cause it sounds like you could really give two shits about helping America if a Muslim is attacking it.
Muslims fight Muslims every fucking day all over the world where the US isn't even involved.
It's just a load of whooey.
Pakistanis and Egyptians and others have joined us in the war on terror.
It is Iranian sympathies like you posted which bring the "discriminatory," Muslim policies into the light.
Many, Many Muslims do not WANT to fight terror. They believe they have the right and no one has the right to stop them.
Well, guess what, America, Pakistan, and many others disagree.
You have proven that this is not just a tiny sect, that it is a widespread Muslim belief that their lives are worth more because they are ethnocentric.
Just like many lawsuits later we learned the Catholics were infested with molesters.
Either you get rid of your terror molesters as a whole religion, or no one is going to guarantee you protection from the law or lawsuits or war.
Your right to be American does not give you the right to sedition based upon discrimination.

tWhen my boys turned 18 they has to file to be in the military. We listened to this recruiter and I had a question since my boy are half Iranian would they be in the middle east,the recruiter said oh no they wouldnt go to middle east. As I found out later that is a bunch of crap. How did they expect a Muslim be sent to a Muslim war zone and the possibity of killing somebody like themselves.

Hi guys,

Once again, I'd like to remind everyone on this thread that personal attacks against Current's Community Guidelines. Starting fires, particularly by calling out other members and baiting them, is also a violation.

This is obviously a heated topic, and emotions are running high. But please keep your comments focused on the issues being discussed, not on the people discussing them.

Additionally, the flagging system on Current is a way to report abuse--it is not a method of retaliation or payback. You can check out our blog post on flags for more detail here: http://blogs.current.com/currentdotcom/2009/08/24/to-flag-or-not-to-flag/ but please note that repeatedly sending in false flags is also a violation.

If this thread is unable to keep from straying into personal attacks and baiting, we will lock it to give everyone a chance to cool down.

Steph
Online Community team

Vierotchka: (paraphrased)
"No I'm Not!"

Samesixth, Ing, Lisa, and many others:

Yes you are. You have been warned, FLAG!

Hello again,

My comment was for everyone participating on this thread. Everyone needs to focus on the topic, refrain from making it personal and abide by community guidelines.

Again, I know everyone has gotten pretty heated while discussing this issue, but please keep your comments to the topic at hand.

-Danielle
Online Community Team

I just shake my head in total amazement! you are either loyal to the United States or to the muslim terrorists! there is no in between! how many more like him are out there? this is not a real religion rather it is a political system routed in murder and terror! convert or die people! well I won't convert and I won't die either! how about the rest of you? do you want to give up the freedoms we can enjoy here in the west,such as books,movies,sex,all that make life worth while,to bend knee to an outdated and dictorial world view?wake up people!

Thanks Danielle for reminding V that it's the topic that counts, not petty bickering, personal attacks and gratuitous self righteous put downs. What's required here is serious debate and engagement with the subject and not pointless and trivial baiting.

Hey guys,

I know this is a very sensitive issue that everyone feels strongly about, but let's remember to focus on discussing the topic rather than the people involved in the discussion.

Everyone is going to have differing opinions, and we want people to feel free to express those opinions, as long as they abide by community guidelines, without others making it personal.

Please keep this all mind when participating and debating with others.

As always, if anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Best,
Danielle
Online Community Team

What were the beliefs of those he killed? Were they all afraid of Islamacists?

IngloriousBitch is dead on about you. Apparently you think you have some huge status on here because you have been posting on this site longer. Again.....grow up.

Okay, go ahead get the last post in.....I'm sure it will make you feel better. You aren't worth my time.

Regarding the topic, he'll go to trial, get the death penalty and go to hell.

Nuff said.

V says "You've only been with Current for less than a month - you are in no position to make such remarks, whoever it was you were addressing."

I have been reading and watching current for a bit longer than the three months or so I have been posting and there is nothing in the rules that says you cannot make an observation about the tone of someone's posting. There is however a rule that you cannot personally attack someone, even on their status here at current.
I have every right to refute anything you say and point out what you do to people on this site.
This is America, not Iran.
I don't need to go about libeling you like you do other people on a regular basis.
Perhaps you have been with the "community," too long and maybe someone thinks you are too big to fail.
But I just flagged another personal attack of yours and personally I'm am sick of the baseless putdowns of anyone who doesn't feel the same way you do including samesixth and several others.
If you want to argue about something, you had better come prepared with facts, not just snippets, out of context retorts, and altered video, photo or whatever from Al Jazeera. Or for that matter articles saying how we as a collective nation are responsible for the wretched state of the Islamic world.
It is racist to put forth the ideaology that Islamic people's should be held any less accountable for their doctrines than anyone else like the KKK or should have less allegiance to their nation than anyone else based upon their faith.
That is what this article implies.

http://www.danvilleweekly.com/news/show_story.php?id=2339

Backlash in California: Muslim at mall kiosk tears crucifix from shopper's neck, shouts "Allah is power"

Whoops, sorry -- this isn't backlash against the poor, innocent Muslims being terrorized and victimized by the thousands after the Fort Hood Nothing-To-Do-With-Islam attack. This is just the familiar Muslim backlash against non-Muslims, which will increasingly be a feature of American life in the coming years. Nothing to see here. Move along.

"Man arrested for 'anti-Christian' mall disturbance: Kiosk employee allegedly tore a crucifix from someone's neck," by Emily West for the Danville Express, November 10 :

Police arrested 22-year-old Abdul Walid Hamid of Hayward on the evening of Wednesday, Nov. 4, after he reportedly tore a crucifix from a person's neck and scared others at Stoneridge Shopping Center.

Hamid, an employee at a mall kiosk near Starbucks, has been charged with battery, terrorist threats and grand theft.

According to reports, Hamid was yelling "Allah is power" and "Islam is great" while holding a pen in a fist over his head. Witnesses said he shouted anti-Christian comments, said police.

Lt. Mike Elerick of the Pleasanton Police Department said the man was not provoked and didn't threaten violence, but he committed robbery when he grabbed and broke a crucifix off someone's neck.

Coworkers told police that Hamid's actions were out of the ordinary and that he had worked at the kiosk for years.

You mean, he didn't do this daily? What a relief!

Police also said they weren't aware of a prior criminal history for the man.

"We had multiple people calling 911," Elerick said. "One female was crouching down and hiding from him. He definitely scared quite a few people."...

Through an interpreter, Hamid requested a public defender and was scheduled to appear in court at 9 a.m. Thursday where he is expected to enter a plea.

Through an interpreter? He worked at the mall and didn't speak English?

You're kidding, right?! Seriously? I rest my case on your behavior.

I don't know who you are, could care LESS who you are.

And lucky you I served my country so you could write whatever silliness you want here.

You're welcome.

Signed,
A proud veteran who didn't shoot anyone.

Do you just like to read your own posts? Because you show your own ignorance. I feel like you're a 5 year old kid.....having to comment on everything and anything whether it makes sense or not.

Grow up.

And all the pretty little boys you can buggar for eternity.

40 virgins await you brother.

I just want to say to the FBI, and I know you're reading this, (especially the hottie agent I once met in NOHO who's dad survived the seige of Leningrad), I truly sympathise with the difficulty you must have balancing the right of people to differ on their opinions with the brazen assholes who will try to take advantage of that and actually act out their violent fundamentalisms. I know, despite patriot and all of the other tools, that some agencies of terror will devise ways to be in your face and legally protected while secretly and quietly plotting to harm your people.
I hope this president can find an honest way to balance the extreme nature of Guantanamo with the liberty we all pray America can hang on to.
The 13 who died should be known as martyrs for what we all believe in, the freedom to speak, challenge and be American no matter where you come from. This asshole is a martyr for nothing other than his depraved interpretation of the world which puts one religion and one name for god above all humanity.

assuming reg joe, that you are an advocate of free speech and free association, what would you have had the army do? How much money would you have wasted on the eventual lawsuit he would have filed? And why should any military man be forced to give up the right to question his government and authority because one particular religious belief sansctions violence on anyone who is not Muslim? Or protects ONLY Muslims.
My perception is an accumulation of evidence to the effect that Vierotchka believes Israelis are demons and Palestinians are freedom fighters. She calls what are supposedly her own people occupiers. She consistently sides with Islamic sympathies. The effect is that she seems pro-suicide bombing no matter what she says out of the side of her mouth to the contrary.
She quotes only talmudic lines that are detremental and not essential parts of the study as some sort of dogmatic fact that Jews hate infidels as much as arabs. Yet she apparently hasn't read the newer dialogue that changes things. Or recognised that is it NEVER preeched to adhere to the violence of the old testament as it is in Islam daily.
She says she is anti-zionist, yet only reads the parts of zionist dialogue (not even doctrine) that supports her assertion that everyone is against Muslims. She ignores the secular basis, the peaceful collaborations, the socialist healthcare, the Palestinian doctors trained in Israel, and the cities of mixed race in Israel as if no one in Palestine has a choice about how they behave and not a single soul in Gaza or the WB is wealthy, sheisty, or builds shoddy houses.
She consistently sides with Putin as well.
That is what I have seen. It may not be in specific words, but it is always in the tone.
What is more is she is constantly trying to personally insult people by calling them wonderful things like "dumb," "childish," "propogandist," (and I can prove it with e-mails from Danielle) or some other wonderful hateful things against conservatives I would assume in order to instigate one to respond and be flagged, yet HER profile has yet to be deleted because I think she works for current or is a friend of someone in there.

your own perception is what makes you see any implications in this.... The warning signs were direct and clear and Homeland Security did nothing... Regardless of his actions or history he was still promoted... One has to ask why this happened.... I cannot make any excuses for this man's actions, just as I cannot make excuses for those who were supposed to prevent these specific situations and failed to do their jobs.....

What does this have to do with CO status?? He only refused to kill ONE race!!! He is a racist, and V keeps posting explanation after explanation of why we should have given him special privledges or otherwise we should feel guilty about what he did as if it was our collective fault. It has been clearly implied by the tone of her posts.
It is HOGWASH and not halal.

again, I have to ask where V has even stated what you say she has...... Of course asking for critical thought from you will go ignored again, but I feel compelled to ask......

This just in, MUSLIMS FIGHT IN THE IDF! Some of them have high ranking posts, especially in the SOUTHERN BRIGADES that invaded Gaza. A Muslim can make a choice between right and wrong, he is not as stupid as V wants you to believe so you feel sorry for him, or her.
This "scoop," seems to affirm what I have been saying all along, this person wanted discriminatory privledge for his religious belief that is not afforded to any other enlistee.
He screwed up free speech for all military Muslims who will now be surely watched,
He CHOSE to kill instead of using his position like a righteous person and trying to save Muslims.
And the only person trying as hard as she can for us to feel sympathy for him is Vierotchka.
Oh and Nephwrack, who I get the feeling is related by marriage or something.

Hmmm, if we say muslim Americans don't have to fight muslims in another country, then we can say white people shouldn't fight white people, black people shouldn't have to fight black people etc...

Hell, lets just let everyone out of the military. Now that we've established no one can fight and or kill anyone. The end of wars. Yay.

Set religion, race, whatever... to the side. This is a military officer that opened fire on his own troops and killed some of them.
This is treason. He should be shot himself.

Everyone keeps talking about how he didn't want to fight and kill fellow muslims. Has anyone stopped to realize, he's a psychiatrist, not a foot soldier. He would not have been fighting any one. He would have been stationed on a base in a medical facility counseling soldiers who just saw their buddies blown to bits or what ever other atrocities that might occur there and prescribing psych meds to help them.

i believe it is unfair for muslims to fight other muslims on a different front. it might not seem much to people who dont understand, but islam is one of the world's largest relifgion in the world as far as i'm concerned there only really two religions in this world, christianity and islam!! so it seems a little unfair when American Muslims have to go back to their homeland or see people with whom they are similar and kill them... this, to me, is the same as if african americans were part of the army some 200 years ago and force to go back to africa and fight your own people over oil, politics and BULLSHIT!! last time i remember the US of A was a multicultural nation so why don't we start acknowledgin Islamic people's views, beliefs and values.

The more that this guy's past comes out, the more we should just firing squad him.
Tiem f0r Ran7!!!

Rant:

As a Medically Retired Marine, and a civilian who took a contract to serve 15 months in Afghanistan with a K9 unit looking for I.E.D.s and other explosives, I think this is bunk. He was an objector. He didn't want to fight. Well, he wouldn't have fought. He was a pencil pusher... a shrink. People who join the Armed Forces just to get fee schooling are no better than traitors in my book. One report said he tried to get discharched and offered to pay back the cost of the school... the cost of the school? Serving your f'n country is the cost of the school! If you're called to fight, FIGHT!

I, as many other former and current service members, suffer from PTSD. He could have developed a form of that from counciling his troops, sure... but the man was a coward and a traitor to his country, his brothers, and his oath as a medical professional.

There should be no quarter given this man. His name, his religeon? Should be of no consideration. I was picked on when in the Corps... and I sure as hell did my share of ribbing as well... you get picked on for your name, size, music, hair color, lack of hair, where you're from, your momma... the list is endless. At no time did he go through the complaint procedure, so there is no record of it. Did it happen? Who cares?

If you sign the line... if the Government puts you through school... you have an obligation to serve in whatever capacity and where ever on this God forsaken hellhole of a planet you are told to. You are a soldier.

Treason during War time is a firing squad offense. Throwout the window any of the reasons why... toss out the mental condition defense... forget putting him in the brig for years... line 'em up, and send him to whatever God he placates.

It's time for the people of this country to suck up all the "feel good" hippie psycho-babble crap and grow a pair. "He hurt my feelings so I killed 13 people" F you and the horse you rode in on! If this man lives, it sets the standard for all to follow.

And people will follow

And we sit in the handbasket for a ride into Hell.

to put it simply: IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KILL, DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY! IF YOU JOIN, YOU WILL KILL... IT'S YOUR JOB!

"Face your fear, accept your War, it is what it is"
-Black Label Society, "Fire it up"

PSLPWNS.... you as a member of the services should be one of the first to know what a concientious objector status is.... It is a personal decision..... To ask that people be allowed to have the option of concientious objector is not even close to saying "all muslims dont want to fight for the USA"

As salaam alaikum ( peace be on to all of you), First and foremost I am Muslim which means i believe in God (ALLAH) and believe in Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). I want to inform you that the actions of the man accused at Fort Hood were his one actions and not those of a muslim. One of most unforgiveable sins in islam is murder. Also he swear to an oath and going against it is shun upon.
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
Therey are many ayahs(verses) in theQuran which severly condemn the murder of the innocent.
So please my friends, do not persecute a religon because one person's actions which were of his one compulsions.
I pray that all the killed find peace and thier familes find comfort, And that all injured be healed.

Actually, the good major would have had to sign a form saying that he was not a conscientious objector (someone who refuses to fight based on their beliefs) prior to signing up. This is a requirement of everyone who joins military service. That would have ended it right there.

We can try to justify this a hundred different ways and even claim the perpetrator is the victim. The truth, however, is that the fault lies on the individual...not the military, not the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, and not Obama. Hasan made a series of choices that led to the shooting of over 30 unarmed people. People he swore to protect not once, but several times if we include the Hippocratic Oath.

He knew what he was doing then and knew what he was getting into when he took his commission. It is reasonable to assume that anyone who can pass med school, should be able to logically think through a course of action and make decisions for themselves. The word "unless" does not appear in the oath of enlistment, officer or otherwise.

This info was out the day it happened but Fox and most of the corporate media decided to ignore it so they could use the drama.
Lieberman, the douche, was right about the army missing the ball. Or they knew and the MIC wanted this to happen because it help when we are sending more troops into a losing situation that is nothing but a money pit to enrich the private contractors like corrupt Halliburton and KBG.
Unending war makes money for the upper 2 percent and gives an excuse to remove all programs that help the middle and working class.
All they had to do was to keep this person in the states and watch him, and he had asked to stay in the states!!!!! Thus alll that hot air about Legality is CYA. Its all CYA. None of these soldiers needed to die. So do more people feel enraged and want to war more on the crazies?

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims,"

I did not know we were in a religious war against Muslim's.
I thought it was against an un sanctioned body of Muslim Extremists or Terrorists.
This guy cant tell the difference betwix peaceful law abiding Muslims or its government and terrorists?

I believe this guy had been bullied after 9-11 and the straw that broke...I won't put the rest. What I don't like is the fact that he had asked to not go the Iraq and the possiblity of killing a fellow Muslim. Why in the hell would they even think he would go.Racism is alive and well in the US services.

Give him an out now. Stand him up in front of a firing squad.

There is no excuse. This hypocrite had a chance to get out of the service. He's a Major, He HAD to have re-enlisted after the start of both wars which were 8 years ago. He could have gotten out, as a military man he knew he may have to go. He didn't have to sign the re-up papers and he did knowing all the while he objected.

He states to his family that he's 'mortified' at the thought of fighting Muslims? But it's okay to kill anyone else, including the men and women who would have had his back had he needed them?

He's a hypocrite and a coward. I'm SO glad he's alive to stand trial. Texas doesn't mess around and he'll be held accountable in a court of law. At least he didn't get to take the cowards way out.

As a veteran, I'm outraged. As a human being, I'm sickened and disgusted.

shoulda coulda woulda. as much as i agree with his proposal and disagree with the way some people treated him, it will never come close to justifying his actions.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

if you're not willing to take this oath, then don't sign up.

Unbelievable that his desire to not kill Muslims led to the killing of 13 US soldiers.

Honestly, I have a real hard time understanding how to make sense of that, with or without the religious irony.

On the one hand, I feel like if Muslim soldiers don't want to fight (or won't fight)other Muslims then they should be dishonorably discharged. But there is no limit then on anyone. Christians, Jews even Agnostics could argue that they are against killing and refuse combat missions for exactly the same reason.

I think the best thing to do would have been to send him to a location where he wouldn't have had to fight Muslims, but it still is a pretty weak solution that I am not sure would stand the litmus test of war.

Regardless, this is a horrible tragedy and I hope more good will come out of this than hate.

"I, [NAME] , do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States ***against all enemies, foreign and domestic***; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Read it before you swear to it. Honestly, this is un-fucking-believable.

His presentation was obviously about himself, all the words he said were describing fellow muslims but in the end it was himself he was pertaining to.

Is that before or after he killed 13 people that have nothing to do with his beef?