Guns Don’t Kill People, People Kill People!

Attack of the "BIRTHERS" GMAFB already.

McCain was born in Panama, wah, wah, wah......

I get that if she rescinded her citizenship that she is no longer a citizen, but if Obama was born in the state of Hawaii then what the hell does it matter? I was under the impression that a baby born inside of the borders of this nation was a citizen of this nation. Am I incorrect in that impression?

kvol et al: it has been too easy for the O supporters to just scoff at the questions regarding Obama's birth and his records. But there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests that something is wrong with the picture.

How do you know he wass born in Hawaii? The Hawaiian short-form BC that he provided was often given to children born outside the country to non-US citizens. That's a fact.
The short form BC does NOT state the name of the hospital. Two hospitals have claimed he was born there (you can only be born in ONE, so what does that mean?)

The newspaper announcement did NOT say he was born in Hawaii: I read them, and all they said was he was born to parents Barack Obama and RuthAnn Dunham, of XYZ address. That address, BTW, was her Mother's house, not hers. Anyone could have called that in, it proves nothing other than his birth was reported.
Obama swore publicly he'd be the most transparent president: yet the FIRST legislation he signed forbade teh release of his personal records including birth records, school records, etc.

No one in the media has seen the long form birth certificate. The long form will include the doctor's name, hospital, race and nationality. Why can't they show that?
I personally don't know that he wasn't born in the US, but I don't know that he was either.

The fact that hismother was a US citizens does NOT make him a US citizen. The law at that time had requirements about the age of the mother (she was 18 when he was born and younger when she was impregnated) meant that she also had to be living in the USA for a number of years prior to the birth, and of course she had to be a US citizen. If she had temporarily lived outside teh USA or had renounced her citizenship, then Barry Hussein would NOT automatically be a citizen.

I don't say that Obama is not a US citizen: I just say that something smells VERY fishy.

Good points, but it's such a big gray area. Loads of people think that regulatory distribution of CCW Permits are too loose, when really they're usually quite effective. There's so many loons on both sides of the issue that every time any serious legislation is introduced it panders too strongly to one side or the other, and nothing gets done.

"There's so many loons on both sides of the issue that every time any serious legislation is introduced it panders too strongly to one side or the other, and nothing gets done."

Hmm sounds like practically every other issue facing America...

QFT.

If "education is the key here" than you should be reminded that the 2nd Amendment had (and has) nothing to do with defending yourself against your nieghbor, but was a preventative to a government's tendancy to become tyrannical.
Guns are our 'lyberty teeth'.
It is not thieves and gangsters trying to disarm the public, but governments.

Dear Delia, you started off ok until you said this:
"I also don't know about "encouraging gun ownership", I don't think there is any reason for that. Some people are pacifists or refuse to touch guns and that's certainly their right as much as it's your right to carry one. "
Encouraging gun ownership does not mean making it compulsory. What it means is simply helping peole get over their fear of the gun, training them in its proper use, and helping them acquire one if they wish.

I just found out today that our accounting department had "team building" at a gun range. They took everyone out, taught them to shoot shotguns, and shot skeet for a while. Some of the girls were scared and reticient at first...until they shot the gun a few times and then they enjoyed it.

I thought that was brilliant. You can't get much more American than to take your friends out for a little sport shooting! Our ancestors had "turkey shoots" as a community activity back in the day. Annie Oakley was widely reveared and in a way was a very early feminist, when you think about it: she proved women could shoot with the best of the boys.

Food doesn't make people fat, forks do. Indeed..

"No, I think we need some bullet control. I think every bullet should cost five thousand dollars. Five thousand dollars for a bullet. Know why? Cos if a bullet cost five thousand dollars, there'd be no more innocent by-standers. That'd be it. Some guy'd be shot you'd be all 'Damn, he must've done something, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass!' And people'd think before they shot someone 'Man I will blow your fucking head off, if I could afford it. I'm gonna get me a second job, start saving up, and you a dead man. You'd better hope I don't get no bullets on lay-away!' -Chris Rock

I don't think so. How many bullets have loaded themselves into guns and then pulled the trigger? NONE. Bullets don't have that potential. It is the person behind the gun and the bullets that does what is necessary to cause the action. People kill people. Do knives rob people at knife point? no. Is it the sharpening stone's fault the knife has a sharp blade on it? No.

What accidents would occur?

Tim, I like your example. It is absolutely true. One town in Arizona had a very high crime rate and climbing. When the town's mayor passed a law that you had to carry a firearm, the crime rate dropped and is now next to nothing. My understanding is nobody even had to fire a shot. The point is we do have the right to defend ourselves. No we do not need to ask someone if they intend us harm if they arrive armed at a store we are in and trying to rob it. If the robber gets the notioni to shoot somebody, he/she will shoot. It would be nice to have the option to shoot them before they can shoot everybody in the store.
I am reminded of the subway shooting in NYC. Think had one or more people in that subway car had a gun, the gunman could have been stopped and fewer lives lost.

The problem with the example of people on an airplane carrying guns is that special training and ammunition that doesn't pierce the hull is gravely needed. You miss a shot, or put two rounds to close to one another, decompression and everyone dies.

Which town made it a law to carry handguns. . . ?

I would have to disagree on that meaning you were shooting respoinsibly. Why do I need to ask questions to someone trying to hurt me, my children, or someone else. Hesitation can get you killed.

respect.

You go SANDY! YES!

See my response to Robert_Rule. While it seems "SANE" to sort of have a "sanity check" check upon gun ownership,.....really,...thats lame. Anyone who shouldn't have a gun because of competence or stability or sociopathec issues,....well, really shouldn't be allowed on the street,....you know,...with A CAR,...(or a knife etc.) Competence for a gun should be part of the "regulated" militia bit,...like a driving permit,.....take a class, pass a test,....should be part of purchasing a gun,...be added to the cost of the weapon. The problem I have with the "very sane and reasonable" reservations people have with the whole "gun rights bit",....is that REALLY when you break it down,...what they have reservations about is seemingly their neighbors.

"That is why gun laws in towns cause crime rates to go up." Do you have a source for this info?

It's that whole, "An armed society is a polite society" thing, I guess?...

exactly. I would imagine criminals would like to keep on living to commit crimes, so they probably choose victims who they assume are not armed or dangerous first. its just common sense.

@DeliaTheArtist Go and check out kennesaw GA gun laws.

@Jen That same article also says "“As students of elementary logic know,” Justice Breyer wrote, “after it does not mean because of it.” as well as "Justice Breyer concluded that the mixed quality of the evidence on the efficacy of gun control, along with its varying interpretations, means that lawmakers should be allowed to assess it for themselves to set reasonable gun control policies."

I agree however that criminals don't care about the law, that's what makes them criminals. I'm not in favor or highly restricitve gun legislation, but I'm not convinced that it increases crime either- BUT, TruthB, I had no idea about Kennesaw! Thanks for that info, very interesting!

You know what has a better chance of deterring a mugging or criminal activity towards your own person, having a dog.

Good idea, but you can't always have your big dog with you.

And a person mugging you will usually have a weapon already on you. By the time you get your gun out they might decide that you are too much of a risk and shoot.

Not if I shoot first!

Assuming that you can get your gun out and shoot them before they figure out that you are getting you gun to shoot them, then they shoot you first.

People who carry firearms learn to recognize when other people are carrying firearms, especially the kind of people who are thinking about committing a violent crime. They won't come near you if you have a firearm on your hip/chest.

AND that is why weapon TRAINING is SO important and should be a requirement for ownership.
Kids need to have training with their firearm before they get their first hunting license, so it should be with any weapon!