US decides not to act on climate change
source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/15/apec.climate.change/index.html
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- inspirationseeker
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How long are we going to sit around and wait? The world is watching us and waiting for us to speak up for what is right.
*read full article at link below.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/15/apec.climate.change/index.html
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- groups:
- Community, Green, Civil Discussions, Copenhagen
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larrysnotes
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NEXT !
- 2 years ago
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larrysnotes
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larrysnotes
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Great move !
- 2 years ago
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larrysnotes
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snaganalf
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7 billion people passing gas 13 times a day. There's the driving force for Global Warming / Climate Change. The cows ain't got crap on us.
- 2 years ago
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snaganalf
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sdcougar
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See these You Tube vids by people who know what they are talking about:
Michael Crichton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzTPPl05Wok&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AA5aIdOqlw&feature=fvwFreeman Dyson: "When I listen to the public debates about climate change, I am impressed by the enormous gaps in our knowledge, the sparseness of our observations and the superficiality of our theories."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTSxubKfTBU
http://noconsensus.org/scientists/freeman-dyson.php
Dr. John R. Christy, a lead author on the IPCC, Professor of Atmospheric Science and Director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama--Huntsville: [comments from debate on 11 Feb., 2009]: --Our ignorance about the climate system is enormous, and policy makers need to know that. This is an extremely complex system, and thinking we can control it is hubris. [THIS is the most important fact of the whole issue.]
- 2 years ago
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sdcougar
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thedirtman
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sdcougar:
You've struck a nerve in me simply by suggesting Crichton. Michael Crichton has a degree in a social science. He is a science fiction writer, producer and a screenwriter.
As a scientist that has a degree in a physical science and works in science I become irate about guys masquerading as "the real experts". Al Gore isn't much better, but at least he mostly just takes quotes from real scientists. I don't know what your field of work is, but I would never pull some Hollywood clown of the street and claim that he knows more about what you do. And that is precisely what Michael Crichton is - a Hollywood clown.
- 2 years ago
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thedirtman
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J_Jammer [removed]
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sdcougar:
First of all WAS because he's dead.
Second of all he did massive amount of research. A degree is just a degree---expert it doesn't make...and experts are not know it alls.
Inventions were made by laymen so were great discoveries.
- 2 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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thedirtman
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sdcougar:
The man thought all diseases, including heart attacks, are direct effects of a patient's state of mind were produced by thoughts.
I don't imply that because he has no degree that he cannot possibly know. But why trust someone without the credentials to do a job better than one who does? I sometimes look under the hood of my car, but I don't claim to be a mechanic. The guy is... err was a total blowhard. Science, of all things, has to be proven by experiment, repetition, and must be dependable for further research. He did research... good for him. Lots of people do research.
Some people cite Einstein as an example of a layman because he was a Swiss Patent Inspector. But he was a fine student of science before he ticked off a Science Professor.
I do not appreciate Crichton because I see the flaws in his arguments. Inorganic Chemistry, Atmospheric Chemistry, and University Physics theories make sense to me, and to just cast them aside - I can't accept that without cause. It's painful to see someone ignore volumes of subjects that are so well established.
One thing Crichton did right was to warn about pseudo-scientist. He knew them well, because he was a great pseudo-scientist.
- 2 years ago
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thedirtman
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rodstradamus
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http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/40916
"The American Physical Society (APS) has "overwhelmingly rejected" a proposal from a group of 160 physicists to alter its official position on climate change. The physicists, who include the Nobel laureate Ivar Giaver, wanted the APS to modify its stance to reflect their own doubts about the human contribution to global warming."Carbon isn't poison, toxic waste is. Al Gore and Ken Lay are pulling the bait and switch with their carbon trading scheme.
- 2 years ago
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rodstradamus
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TheCeej
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This is disappointing. We need to be leaders. We need to embrace the new tomorrow. All this says is that the administration is not yet ready to take a stand, and insodoing they are sending a message of indifference.
- 2 years ago
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TheCeej
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vesher
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lets wait til rush hour..
- 2 years ago
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vesher
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stolenapples
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Has somebody actually read the article from CNN? iNSPIRATION SEEKER you have some big problems in synthetizing, in a synthesis you usually don't change what an article says.
- 2 years ago
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stolenapples
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inspirationseeker
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stolenapples:
How did I change what the article says? I clearly state that President Obama now favors a 2-step process, the first step being more politics, which I infer as more talking because basically it is just a stall tactic. That is what the article says. If I wanted to mislead people I would not have linked my blurb directly to the article.
- 2 years ago
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inspirationseeker
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nicsansone
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Everything is connected.. Can We just solve on problem, PLEASE>> Talk about, write about, get r done already. With one advance, whatever it might be, healthcare, job security, pollution issues, war, national debt. One problem solved, "check"...
We have dug quite a deep hole... soo deep, we must dig sideways to get out..
- 2 years ago
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nicsansone
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TheOuroborus
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Same as it ever was... same as it ever was...
- 2 years ago
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TheOuroborus
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Maven_25
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Your headline doesn't accurately support the article...
- 2 years ago
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Maven_25
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stolenapples
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Maven_25:
Finally somebody who has read the article! I was losing faith in mankind. Sure Obama isn't perfect but this current article is a deformation of the CNN article!
- 2 years ago
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stolenapples
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inspirationseeker
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Maven_25:
I read the entire article and even though there are quotes about how President Obama thinks climate change is important, the bottom line is that rather than putting anything into action or putting any sanctions on anyone, he wants to do more planning. There has been so much effort put into the World Climate Summit, so many other countries have done their part and OUR government, among a few others, is the one who keeps holding things up. Maybe you should read the article in the context of all of the other times of inaction that have occured so far and you will see that I am not misrepresenting anything.
- 2 years ago
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inspirationseeker
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Sean_O_Brien1
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China is the #1 importer to the US so It doesnt surprise me that they dont wish to shut down their coal burning plants on the account for a cleaner world. Nor does Obama's 'more talks' patience. After all, we owe them $1.5 trillion.
- 2 years ago
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Sean_O_Brien1
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Niccole_Osborn
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I really think Obama should attend even if he supports a 2 step process.
- 2 years ago
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Niccole_Osborn
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pleasexplain
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Seriously? Thanks a lot, Mr. President. I'm really appreciating you going back on your word...
- 2 years ago
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pleasexplain
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calm_incense
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pleasexplain:
It seems like all the morons who are angry at Obama for "going back on his word" didn't even read the damn article.
"I think the two steps was meant to reflect the realistic assessment that it was unrealistic to expect a full legally binding international agreement to be reached between now and when Copenhagen starts in 22 days," Froman said Sunday.
I don't give a damn how badly you want something to be done about climate change. You can't legislate something as massive as this, that affects ONE-HUNDRED-AND-NINETY-ONE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, in TWENTY-TWO fucking days.
- 2 years ago
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calm_incense
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402Chicago
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kind of crappy title... they just acknowledged that they wouldn't make significant change by years end... also, "The leaders also reaffirmed a promise they made at a summit in 2007 to reach "an APEC-wide aspirational target of reducing energy intensity by at least 25 percent by 2030." so it's not like we gave up on it. I think he just has more important things to focus on, especially when dealing with the nation he's President of, like the wars we're in, health care debate, the economy, etc. Personally i'd like him to focus on these issues much more than global climate change, people are losing jobs, health care, and dying in war NOW, global climate change we still got a few decades to deal with.
- 2 years ago
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402Chicago
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funkymonkey931
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it seems all Obama does these days is talk...
- 2 years ago
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funkymonkey931
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Thhines
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This is the most misleading title I've read in a long time, and what you wrote is even worse. They had pushed and pushed harder and harder for climate change by December 7th, Obama being the lead in that push. But because its lagged up in congress in the process of our congress, it will take more time. So obviously its a great idea to make sure its still on everybody's agenda by talking about it. Thats the smartest thing you could do if your from the country that is far behind everyone else.
- 2 years ago
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Thhines
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CarlosIsDown
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Till 2010 or later? How long should it take? The title of the article is misleading.
- 2 years ago
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CarlosIsDown
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PajamaDan
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TWO OPTIONS:
Either our descendants will wonder why it took so long for environmental action
OR
We won't have descendants - 2 years ago
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PajamaDan
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calm_incense
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PajamaDan:
Can't say I care either way.
- 2 years ago
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calm_incense
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sdcougar
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PajamaDan:
When the nutcases stop trying to label CO2, an essential for life, as a 'pollutant' and start working to solve REAL polution like this
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/Then the future will indeed be brighter for our children. But we have already wasted too much ot THEIR money on a non-problem: CO2
""One of the things the scientific community is pretty agreed on is those things [carbon caps] will have virtually no impact on climate no matter what the models say. So the question is do you spend trillions of dollars to have no impact? And that seems like a no brainer."--Richard Lindzen,Professor of Meteorology at MIT; served on IPCC
- 2 years ago
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sdcougar
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mr_brightside
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in other news... obama is a music producer too (according to wikipedia that is) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_On
- 2 years ago
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mr_brightside
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JanforGore
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This is why states need to step up on their own. Many are doing that and cities as well. Mayors have done more than Washington Dc. It is up to us, and I truly believe we can make a difference without Washington Dc with their heads up the as*** of coal/oil company executives.
- 2 years ago
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JanforGore
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asherp
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No shit.
- 2 years ago
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asherp
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larrysnotes
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We should turn off the sun a few hours a day.
- 2 years ago
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larrysnotes
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xmodix
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everyone wants things yesterday.
- 2 years ago
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xmodix
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EmperorThan
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"God Damna You Japarese!!!"
- 2 years ago
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EmperorThan
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royulery
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a politician can't help us, that isn't what they do. politics is part of the problem, the solution is to leave the leaders behind.
when the leaders see us moving in a new direction then they will run to get ahead of us and proudly move that way. - 2 years ago
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royulery
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cmgrigg
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keep blaming the faces on tv all you want...its our fault
- 2 years ago
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cmgrigg
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skolev87
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There has to be the talk so people will buy into the coming carbon tax...
- 2 years ago
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skolev87
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snaganalf
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PJDan,
It should actually be Spelled S. naganalF.
You must not have read the rest of that post since you pretty much repeated what I said. - 2 years ago
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snaganalf
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PajamaDan
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Snag Anal F said "Then call it what it is". Okay ---> Environmental destruction.
It's not the cause's fault that there MAY be some corrupt facets of the Green movement. And it doesn't diminish the cause or negate it. It's ever-present, detrimental and still worsening.
Forget about the effing "climate" factor, forget about the supposed scams and our almighty bank accounts. Forget about yourself. Just admit that there are man-made problems on Earth, and these disgusting environmental woes need to be addressed NOW.
The bottom line --- we're tremendously damaging ecosystems and Earthlings,... but we're too selfish and greedy to even BEGIN lessening the damage. - 2 years ago
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PajamaDan
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inspirationseeker
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It is time that we do more than talk and by "we", I mean the current community. What good is it to have like minded individuals in the same location if we cannot organize when it counts to change things?
Speaking for myself, I am going to plan a demonstration for next Saturday, November 21st. I can only do this on a local level but depending on how much interest I can generate in a week, we'll see. . .
Hit me up if you're in the midwest~
- 2 years ago
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inspirationseeker
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usfalidiate
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Global warming has been proven scientifically, but what has NOT been proved is that it is man-made. Sure Gore's documentary shows some nice trends, but there is not 100% conclusive evidence that the trends are due to man-made factors. Just one proof of this is that every single planet in the solar system is currently undergoing global warming! There is a scientific article which recounts all the evidence - "The Interplanetary Day After Tomorrow, by Richard Hoagland and David Wilcock" which shows that what is happening on Earth is happening on all the planets in our solar system, a drastic increase in brightness, temperature and energetic activity.
http://www.enterprisemission.com/_articles/05-14-2004_Interplanetary_Part_1/Inte...
Global warming is due to the solar system orbiting the centre of our galaxy (which itself is orbiting the centre of the universe), moving into what is essentially a more energetically charged area of the universe- the vibrations of the quantum fabric or Local Interstellar Medium (LISM) are at a higher rate than that of our current location. This gives the effect of increasing the intensity of the Sun's magnetic field (the heliosphere) which extends right through our entire solar system, which has also been documented extensively back astronomers, NASA, physicists, etc.
Both sides of the global warming debate are right, in some aspects- Global warming exists, and the actions of Man have made it much worse, but it would still be occurring even if Man was not living on the planet, and it definitely won't stop even if we reduce our CO2 emissions.
- 2 years ago
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usfalidiate
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JanforGore
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usfalidiate:
This message brought to you by "clean coal."
- 2 years ago
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JanforGore
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thedirtman
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While there is much disagreement among the people posting, the bigger problem is the people who would never post their opinions. Most people would do nothing until they look in the refrigerator and can't find anything inside.
- 2 years ago
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thedirtman
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jubal
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Very disappointing to say the least.
- 2 years ago
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jubal
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J_Jammer [removed]
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What? Obama promised and taketh away? Shocker....
What are people going to do? Declare war in the name of Earth? What kind of war? Killing people?
How much of a carbon footprint do you have if you commit murder?
- 2 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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lj111
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WHAT CLIMATE CHANGE....
- 2 years ago
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lj111
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snaganalf
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PajamaDan said:
Again,... it's not truly about the friggin' climate. That is just a misnomer, meant to address all the damage we cause.
Then call it what it is. Setting up a treaty to establish a one world government to steal from the countries with higher standards of living and supposedly give it to the countries with a lower standard of living isn't going to fix it.
I agree, mankind does a lot of eco-damage with the pollution, clear cutting, garbage generation, use of crude and coal, etc...
But the agenda of the Global Warming / Climate Change activists is going about things the wrong way.
We, ourselves, each country's government and their people need to address their contributions themselves in order to bring about change.
Not some global governing body.And it would help if we could keep the big money interests from buying up those technologies as they become available and putting them on a shelf somewhere never to be seen again.
Or from having the individuals that are making progress in these areas assassinated because they won't sell out. - 2 years ago
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snaganalf
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CalgarC
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FUCK you mr. president!
we don't need to wait for our shitty government to take action... if we go green, and fix the planet, the only way companies and corporations will make money would be to finde alternatives and new ways to sell us stuff. which would force them into helping save the planet.
also all this bullshit about it costs too much, you can actually save ... i mean linux is energy efficient and its FREE (as in free speech) and most cases (free beer). electric cars would save you money too..
- 2 years ago
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CalgarC
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snaganalf
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Know why Gore changed his message from Global Warming to Climate Change? Cause it's been cooler the last few years overall.
Yes, the climate changes, it has changed for as long as there has been one. What turned the sahara into a desert? Hmm, dinosaur farts? Should we have taxed them? Made them give up a percentage of their kills to those in more sparsely populated areas to satisfy their carbon debt?
What friggin good would that have done? Not a damned bit.
The way I see it the climate changes about 4 times a year here. We call it SEASONS and we can't stop it from happening.
Take the cap and tax crap, the carbon debt bullshit and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Then quit wasting taxpayer dollars on bullshit and focus on alternative energies so we won't be using carbon based fuels.
But wait, big oil and coal don't want that do they?
- 2 years ago
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snaganalf
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PajamaDan
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snaganalf:
Again,... it's not truly about the friggin' climate. That is just a misnomer, meant to address all the damage we cause.
- 2 years ago
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PajamaDan
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idealist
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You know what they say.. If we save the enviroment then the Eco-terrorists win! [/sarcasm]
- 2 years ago
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idealist
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expatincebu
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Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Meet Obama, the same as Bush, US imperial wars, corporate domination. On what policy is this guy different from the last?
- 2 years ago
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expatincebu
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SangreDulze
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one term president, because of his own unwillingness to bring CHANGE
- 2 years ago
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SangreDulze
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Ihatethemall
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Dont worry people. He is just checking out how this will affect all 57 states............
- 2 years ago
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Ihatethemall
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Maitereya
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"climate change" encompasses so much.
- 2 years ago
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Maitereya
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RoboSquatch99
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what is there to talk about? quit fucking over my generation asshole.
- 2 years ago
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RoboSquatch99
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Ihatethemall
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I love how all you people are coming up with excuses why he is stalling?
"talking makes good sense" Is that why you all voted for him? You wanted to hear more politicians talk?
Please let me know the exact moment you knew you were fucked over by a chicago political thug. What were you thinking? Have you known it for a while now and just couldnt admit it.
I see the normal Current faithful are still backing the loser in charge. They will be the last to wake up. Some will actually vote for him again.
- 2 years ago
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Ihatethemall
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calm_incense
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Ihatethemall:
...are you blind? This entire comments section is filled with people venting angrily at Obama.
It's amusing how utterly delusional you are.
- 2 years ago
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calm_incense
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Manatee_man
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Well, I'm right
- 2 years ago
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Manatee_man
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Cococalves
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cant beleive i actually supported u, never again will i be tricked into believing so investedly into a politician, bc regardless of party affiliation he/she is still a politician and is only a human not a god.
- 2 years ago
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Cococalves
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calm_incense
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Cococalves:
"bc regardless of party affiliation he/she is still a politician and is only a human not a god."
No. Fucking. Shit.
- 2 years ago
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calm_incense
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EtVoila
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Damn it, Obama!!
- 2 years ago
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EtVoila
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fun_size
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Obama's plan is to get the healthcare agenda passed and then tackle climate change afterward. So more talking makes sense...
- 2 years ago
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fun_size
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courage
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katrina deaths 1800 bush villified and castigated......H1N1 deaths 4000 obamas total inaction ignored.Obama allowed 4000 children to die in a pandemic on his watch he should be Impeached
- 2 years ago
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courage
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fun_size
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courage:
What 4000 childrens deaths from swine flu do you know about? Thats probably worldwide... if that. Obama isnt the President of the world by the way.
- 2 years ago
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fun_size
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LowShred
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courage:
Umm, I'm pretty sure that more children die from the regular flu annually. I'm also pretty sure that's been happening since you know, the history of ever. I'm also almost positive that no one has been impeached because of something that happens all the time. People die you know. That's one of those things you can't stop.
- 2 years ago
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LowShred
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CarlosIsDown
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courage:
It was actually the Pharma companies hired to make the flu virus that failed in this case. Maybe they did so to make the current admin look bad? (If Glenn Beck can come up with his crazy fuck-ass theories, I can too!)
- 2 years ago
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CarlosIsDown
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calm_incense
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courage:
Erm...more people are upset that he's forced "mandatory swine flu shots", thinking it's some kind of conspiracy.
It's hilarious how either way, he's bad. He's to blame for the 4000 worldwide swine flu deaths, and he's also to blame for requiring mandatory swine flue shots that will sicken and kill off the American population.
- 2 years ago
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calm_incense
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krush_productions
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courage:
The regular flu kills 30,000+ annually, 4000 isn't shit and hardly a pandemic. Get an education, it's priceless.
- 2 years ago
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krush_productions
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Giganticus
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It's all good. We'll be dead when it gets really bad so why should we care now?
- 2 years ago
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Giganticus
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CalgarC
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Giganticus:
lol so true...
- 2 years ago
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CalgarC
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calm_incense
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Giganticus:
No one alive today is going to die from global warming. -_-
- 2 years ago
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calm_incense
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nursediesel
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We as a people can work toward caring the best way for our planet. We do not need to give control to some other agency to punish us for our industrialization. We've cleaned up our act and continue to improve.(I know, I live near Pittsburgh, PA) We all have to 'work it'.
No amount of money thrown at other nations to punish us is going to help. We all need to be responsible individually.
Thank you, Mr. President. We as a nation cannot afford the financial punishment, especially at this time. Whether Obama did this for financial reasons or for other reasons I thank him for being involved but not throwing us to the wolves. - 2 years ago
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nursediesel
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CroatianPimp
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seriously... we waited too long already,anymore waiting and we are fucked
- 2 years ago
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CroatianPimp
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thedirtman
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The climate should, in fact, be cooling substantially now given that we've been on a seriously low solar cycle. Climate scientists generally agree that both AGW and solar cycles affect the climate in a cumulative manner. However, AGW has mostly erased natural cycles. When the sunspot count returns to normal (which NASA predicts in 2012) we should be in uncharted territory when it comes to global heat and temperature anomaly.
2012. Wasn't that the movie released on Friday the 13th?
- 2 years ago
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thedirtman
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abg123
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climate change is not a lie, the climate is changing, we might not have as much to do with it as Al gore and friends would like you to think, but the world is on a climate rise "natural" or unnatural, it could cause massive problems if the sea level starts rising in florida (where i live). miami would be destroyed if sea levels rose a foot. maybe its not a big deal to people in DC.
- 2 years ago
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abg123
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alerbammer
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the world isn't waiting for us. its more like they're about to leave us in the dust
- 2 years ago
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alerbammer
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int_massEntropy
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Shouldn't the Headline read something like
"U S balks at climate change, opts for 2 step process."
Seems all he did was say 22 days is not enough time to work out talks between the top nations and come to a legally binding agreement. So they are going to drag this out.
I got news for all my fellow middle class. Prepare for a life-style change.
The poor are already poor, and the rich do not care. - 2 years ago
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int_massEntropy
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passjay
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No climate change on the agenda I see...hmmmmmm uhhhhhhh...that's right they have better things to do..like plan terrorists attacks.....to rob the stock exchange and steal all of that money that was inside the buildings before they were destroyed (allegedly)
- 2 years ago
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passjay
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maxjunk
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I'm starting to hate that cunt.
- 2 years ago
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maxjunk
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snaganalf
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Instead of doing cap and tax and or getting on board a UN one world government treaty that takes money from rich nations to satisfy supposed carbon debt, money should be diverted to the development of alternative energies to reduce and eventually eliminate our dependence on that foreign oil. We need to start the change here at home and then let the rest of the world follow us. There is enough money wasted by our government that if they would lean the spending out so only truly important things are in the budget the savings could be spent on energy solutions.
- 2 years ago
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snaganalf
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nursediesel
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snaganalf:
Amen!
- 2 years ago
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nursediesel
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Ricky84
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snaganalf:
That's what I'm talking about. R&D for the win. Cap and trade will never work.
- 2 years ago
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Ricky84
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jubal
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snaganalf:
Cap n Trade is a bullshit scam. Anthropogenic Climate Change is Real.
- 2 years ago
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jubal
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antoine_99
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Wow, this website is full of crazies!
"Climate change isn't real", "Obama scammed us all", blah, blah, blah blah bl....
I think I'm going crazy.
- 2 years ago
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antoine_99
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Ihatethemall
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antoine_99:
If you voted for obama and believe in global warming.....your already there
- 2 years ago
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Ihatethemall
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ii386
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antoine_99:
I hate the mall --- so you doubt climate change? is that what you're saying?
- 2 years ago
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ii386
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sdcougar
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antoine_99:
No, you are not crazy. You have just been duped by Minitrue.
This partly explains what has happened:
http://www.heartland.org/events/newyork09/pdfs/lindzen.pdf - 2 years ago
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sdcougar
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antoine_99
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antoine_99:
Sorry, but you're the one being duped sdcougar. That might seem like a legitimate scientific paper, but it's simply propaganda. That paper has never been published in a peer-reviewed journal (because it's full of inacurracies), doesn't have any references (because it's based on opinion and not scientific fact), or any of the many other necessary parts for a scientific paper. Supporting global warming doesn't make you a bad scientist, but writing a paper like that does.
- 2 years ago
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antoine_99
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stephenthomson
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antoine_99:
dont worry antoine... i used to get the same way after reading such idiocy online.
takes all kinds to make the world go round.
fortunately these people will stay online and not be present at, say, the Copenhagen UN conference. Oh wait.... Inhofe will be there. uggggghhhh. - 2 years ago
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stephenthomson
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csmonut
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Wouldn't want to upset the oil companies and the countries we get all that oil from, now would we?
YES WE WOULD!! - 2 years ago
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csmonut
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PajamaDan
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Then next step is to delay action and let future generations deal with an even bigger problem. You can tell we're doomed, when we're reluctant to solve environmental problems that we've caused.
- 2 years ago
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PajamaDan
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fernweher
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Maybe if he hadn't already been given the Nobel Prize for just talking, our President would me more motivated to build his reputation on action...
- 2 years ago
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fernweher
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thedirtman
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fernweher:
Perhaps there should be a Nobel Prize for listening.
- 2 years ago
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thedirtman
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CroatianPimp
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fernweher:
i agree with you
- 2 years ago
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CroatianPimp
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pandaman2105
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fernweher:
i very much agree with that.
people talk shit about those who don't think he should've gotten it, but he really hasn't done anything yet.
this is a big one for him as president
my question now is: how is this supposed to earn him support from those who voted for him? - 2 years ago
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pandaman2105
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Stentor
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The evidence is mounting that "climate change" is a massive scam. The evidence is also clear that "Cap and Trade" will put union coal miners out of work in the US which is politically untenable for Obama, since he owes the unions so much politically. The evidence is also clear that the "Cap and Trade" on top of the super expen$ive Pelosi healthcare bill that just passed the House will bankrupt the US middle class, and hence the US government, and cause the Chinese to cut up Congress' credit card for good. Obama is painted into a corner on this one.
- 2 years ago
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Stentor
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PajamaDan
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Stentor:
So,... because certain people and/or policies may be crooked,... that means that humans aren't causing damage to Earth?!
- 2 years ago
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PajamaDan
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CreditFigaro
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Stentor:
Something tells me you don't have any evidence to back that statement.
- 2 years ago
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CreditFigaro
