Swiss approve ban on mosque minaret construction fueling anti-Islamic propaganda in Europe

At least there are some intellegent Swiss that dont want to see their country turned into Heidi-stan. If you think this is intolerant, take a look at how Isalmic countries (e.g. Turkey) forbid the building or repair of Christian chuches.

Let's get this into perspective and cut the BS.

The Left champions causes such as gay rights (including gay marriage), equality for women (suffrage, the right to work, etc.), and religious freedom (usually in the form of freedom from religion). Yet, fundamentalist Islam opposes nearly everything the Left stands for.

In many Islamic countries, homosexuality is punishable by death. In Iran, a top government official recently said that torture followed by death is the appropriate punishment for being gay.

In Saudi Arabia, women can't vote, run for public office, or drive cars. Women are routinely jailed and beaten for merely being in the presence of a man not related to them. The Saudi version of Dr. Phil provides televised lessons to men on how to properly beat their wives.

In many Islamic countries, women are forced into arranged marriages and held as property by their husbands, something not exactly in line with progressive Western thinking. In some Muslim countries, women aren't even allowed to decide what clothes to wear. To reveal even the smallest patch of skin is a crime.

Religious freedom is often nonexistent under Islamic rule. In countries like Afghanistan and Iran, people who convert from Islam to another religion face public execution.

So why does the Left hate Christianity yet love Islam?
In unambiguous terms, fundamentalist Islam has announced again and again that it despises the values, culture, and traditions of the West. The Left does too.

Consistent with the Arabic proverb that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, the Left has formed an alliance with fundamentalist Islam to transform this country into something far removed from its Judeo-Christian origins and ideals.

Fundamentalist Islam is using the Left to advance its own agenda. Militant Muslims want Islam and sharia law to dominate the West. Their goal is to subvert our way of life to the will of Allah. The word Islam means submission.
Deep down Leftists are terrified of Islamic fundamentalists. It is essentially a love-fear relationship. The Left loves Islam's hatred of the West and its desire to radically change our culture, but the Left also fears what militant Muslims are capable of, especially if they turn their murderous rage on their so-called friends.

The Swiss government stood and watched MILLIONS die in the worst case of genocide in world history. I have no respect for a country that claims to be free, but curtails efforts by the religious to worship. If they're so concerned about a religious state forming, they should outlaw church steaples and cathedral facades.

Reading all the islamophobic comments here, I am strongly reminded of the anti-semitic arguments, propaganda and actions against Jews in Hitler's Germany. Shame on you.

I am an atheist but will have to argue that a minaret affixed to a mosque, is as important as the necessity of a cross-bearing steeple, is to a Church. It is merely a part of its architecture and its identity. This is just another example of a Christian based culture that believes any religion other than Christianity is inferior, and the asininity of religion.

I honestly have no idea what the precedent is for this is in Switzerland, but if it happened in America, I would certainly have voted against it. Passing a law or constitutional amendment like the one passed in Switzerland is outright discrimination, and lends itself to increasing hysterics and opens the door for people further on the fringe, on both sides.

All those applauding this exercise in democracy are the ones I worry about. The hypocrisy that lies in the statements made by some people on this board is damning. Arguing that you don't want other people to change your culture. If you really believe that, you must support complete isolationism. Cut the borders, live as a single and solitary nation. Because every extra person that comes in subtly changes your nation and culture until it's totally different and you didn't realize it. Or, you are just pointing the finger at one group, this one different group. Change your term "muslim" for "black" or "Jew", or anything else, and you will find what even you can recognize. It's happened time and again, over and over. Saying "But this time it's different!" doesn't make it so.

"All, to, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression" - Thomas Jefferson

"There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed." - Samuel Johnson

Absolutely agree with Robidog. Until the Muslims start policing their own members, and they know who the radicals are, they are going to keep their bullshit up until the world gets tired of it and starts going back at them. I've heard news reports where supposedly non-radical muslims refer to the west as the enemy. Yeah, we're the enemy. Because we don't believe in "YOUR" god. We're all infidels if we aren't muslims, and many muslims are considered infidels because they are the "wrong" kind of muslims. Way to go Switzerland.

Switzerland has shown itself to be a tower of strength and protection in Europe, protecting even those muslims who come to escape the twisted ideology of their homelands by stemming the tide of islamification of their own country. I laugh every time I hear the word "islamphobia". A phobia is an unfounded fear of something. Open any news site or paper and muslims terrorizing ______ (fill in the blank) including fellow muslims, in everything from Fort Hood to the Phillipeans. The muslim world has no one to blame but themselves. Their tolerance includes beheadings on videos of "infidels", "honour" killings (what honour?), using mentally handicapped people and children to bomb and kill innocent people in marketplaces, destructive riots in France, death threats against anyone who dares publish the truth (think Danish cartoons), flying airliners into buildings, and on and on. Switzerland, I am so very proud of you and I am proud to be an infidel.

Danke schoen, Schwyz! Ausgezeichnet!

I'll be sure to purchase as much chocolate and cheese from Switzerland for the holidays as I can to show my support of this democratic decision.

Until Islamic countries honor the rights of religious minorities in *their* countries, so small a restriction as architectural expression in one country will have to suffice for now as a statement of disapproval for the way Islamic immigrants have expected rights without accompanying responsibility.

I don't have any problem with Hindu or Buddhist temples, or Jewish synagogues, or any other religious architecture, with the exception of mosques and minarets. Islam's core documents contain a totalitarian program for world domination, a program that may well succeed in Europe within a generation, due to demographic trends there. Too large a percentage of Muslims supports the substitution of Islamic law for secular legal systems. By some accounts, the majority of Muslims support Sharia. By other accounts, it's 40%. Still others say somewhat less, perhaps as little as 20%. But what really matters is the current state of human rights in Islamic countries today. And all 57 Muslim nations, as part of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, signed the so-called Cairo Declaration of Human Rights, which basically substitutes Islamic law for the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. At the very least until Muslims produce a major international mainstream movement in opposition to Islamic law and jihad, immigration by Muslims to the West should be prohibited, and Western legislators should find any legal and constitutional means to stop and restrict all political aspects of Islam within Western lands. The West could afford to wink at this sort of thing if there were, say, only ten million Muslims in the world. But there are over a billion Muslims, and hundreds of millions of them support the likes of bin Laden, and want Sharia law imposed on the rest of us. The political side of Islam -- which is its core -- must be contained.

This seems like more of an aesthetic issue to me, like some areas don't want giant flashing billboards to muck up the view maybe they don't want minarets messing up the look and feel of their country, as a sovereign nation they have this right.

I thought the Swiss were a tolerant people? Why ban this and not all the other bigger religious structure, the giant Jesus statues for example?

religion every damn one of them is a problem...

have faith in something be my guest... but keep it in your home...

and thank the flying spaghetti monster and his noodly appendages for inspiring reason and helping the Swiss.

now i am going to go hang out with the smurffs, those freaks are funny.

Separation of church and state is a great concept on paper, but it rarely seems to work, does it?

The problem is that all of our laws and philosophies are based on some perceived fundamental understanding of a universal truth. Whether it is something as simple as we have the right to defend ourselves or as complex as one's chosen deity, these beliefs presuppose an access to universal knowledge that humans cannot prove that they possess.

In absence of this proof, we form a composite consisting of aspects of religious belief and the golden rule, until they are inextricably linked and believed to be correct and "true" by the people who have been immersed in that culture.

Although Locke is present in the make-up of many societies, one cannot realistically deny that Christianity was also mixed with near equal parts. Islamic culture IS a war on Christian culture as much as Christian culture IS at war on Islamic culture, due to this precarious mixture. Until man finds a way to completely separate religious conviction from law, (which is nearly impossible because all of our beliefs are our religions, even if an Atheist) or completely isolate based on belief, we will always be at odds with each other.

What makes our times uniquely dangerous is twofold. There is much more to lose as far as human life and achievement is concerned AND we now have more efficient means of eradicating said life and achievement. With the introduction of more technology, making the world even more interconnected, the cocktail will only get more volatile. Time will tell how we deal with this poison.

The world is not all Muslim, nor is it all Christian. Each has their own way to go. When moderate Muslims DO NOT speak out against the radical factions that can give creedence to racial/religious biases, they are silently condoning those factions.
The U.S. is experiencing the same thing in radical Christians with their rhetoric. If the MODERATES SILENTLY WATCH, they too, give creedence to those radicals that kill doctors and nurses.
It is unfortunate that the rest of the world sees Islam as a radical form of religion, but it is the way of the world. It is also unfortunate that the Islamic countries see Christians as intolerant and radical, but it is the way of the world.

this is ridiculous. and believe me, I'm no fan of Islam, but this is an example of the swiss people passing segregation and racism into law. I'm glad to be American.

@ii386, to answer your question: It is not 57.5% of the population of Switzerland who voted against the minarets, it is 57.5% of those who voted. The bulk of these 57.5% of those who voted against the minarets live in rural areas and small towns, most of them have never seen a Muslim, and are not as sophisticated and educated as those who live in urban areas - and they are the principal targets of the far-right propaganda. Furthermore, of all those eligible to vote, only some 56% of them voted, which makes it a much smaller proportion of Swiss citizens who voted against the minarets than 57.5%.

Polls right until the vote indicated that most people would vote to allow the building of minarets, so the results are not only surprising but also rather suspect - the right-wing has been very busy...

Religion causes more problems than it is worth. Christians, Muslim, they're all as deluded, brainwashed and desperate as each other.

That said, I don't like this move. It's prejudicial, short sighted and born out of fear. Humanity making the same mistakes it has always made.

The powers that be are inciting hatred here, readying a future generation for some unholy war and people just buy into it. That is what happens when you have a corrupt government, media and business interests whispering their dark, devious whisperings.
The Muslim, Christian and Jew , well they will die for their respective causes. That is what faith is about to these institutions...to have a mass of people that will blindly do what they are told, even willing to send their children to die.

No matter what country you are from, you are being controlled from the day you are born.
In fact, freedom, is turning into the slogan of those that will impose the most control.
"Freedom from Western influence"
"Land of the free"
Tell someone that they are fighting for freedom and they will get in uniform, invade, murder and impose, all the time under the disillusion that they are doing them a favour.

It is hard to believe that a person will give up everything, give their life for a flag or a faith when it is plain to see that the foundations of these great institutions are lies, genocide, greed and hatred. The most insidious thing is that they get you when you are young or weak. That's when the nationalistic and religious stamps are most effective.

Anyway, nevermind me, I have digressed into a rant.

We are warmongers. Humans are greedy, violent animals... even the priests. All the religious faiths hate each other, they incite it in their doctrines. There is now a religious old war and in the end there will be a lot of dead soldiers and civilians and a lot or rich gun-makers.

Religious displays should be banned out-right, this institution only serves to further distance ourselves mentally and put us into boxes according to which stupid old story we believe.
If it was up to me, i wouldnt have allowed the mosque to be built, and thats not because i dont like muslims, it's because i dont like any religion.

I'm not surprised by this at all & neither should anybody else. Europe has a loooong history of mistreatment of Jews & this is the same thing but a different religion. Apparently the Muslims there haven't studied European history. You are going to see over the next few decades a growing power in the right wing political parties. You can already see it in Russia & I'm not surprised at all to hear about small pockets of violence perpetuated against Turkish people in Germany. Muslims are the new Jews in Europe.

The problem with Muslims is that when they emigrate to a place with an entirely different culture from their's, they don't assimilate to it. They're stubborn, refuse to integrate into the other country's society, and force their culture on that society.

If that wasn't the case, though, I'm sure that people would be more accepting of them. Fortunately, though, the newer generations seem more open minded.

However, if what Vierotchka said is true and the Muslims in Switzerland integrate well, then let them have a mosque. It certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

''Britain's Guardian newspaper writes of "an Alpine distrust of outsiders which lapsed into racism".'' Islam is NOT a race, it is an ideology. More gutter journalism from the Guardian.

Let me just add that from now on make sure that, when you shop, buy Swiss and send three letters: one to the Swiss government in Switzerland itself; one to the Swiss ambassador in your country of residence; and one to the Swiss company that makes the product. Each letter should state that you have chosen to purchase a Swiss product not just because they make good stuff *but also* in solidarity with, and approval of, their decision to put a spanner in the works of Muslim supremacism, by banning the minaret. If the Swiss hold their ground on this decision, then I think Swiss-made chocolates and Swiss-made cheese should be de rigeur in all infidel households that celebrate Christmas, n'est ce pas/ nicht wahr?
The muslims can squawk about trade boycotts all they like, but the fact is - there are more non-Muslims than Muslims at present, by a factor of five to one, and outside the oil countries many Muslims are dirt-poor, so if all Islamosavvy Infidels who can afford it, choose to buy even one block of Swiss chocolate or Swiss cheese they might not otherwise have bought, as an act of solidarity with this Swiss anti-dhimmi decision (and let the Swiss know why they are doing it - that's important, for it may encourage more acts of resistance in future), then I think the Swiss will probably come out ahead.

Oh and by the way,I won't ever make fun of the fruity Swiss Guard uniform again!

The best news of the decade.

It shows two things:
1) Real democracy in Europe is now possible only outside EU and
2) It's absolutely clear why the word "referendum" has become EU's no. 1 nightmare.

Direct democracy in other European nations would, I am sure, yield similar results. This approach is the only way to circumvent our self-interested, particularist elites, who quite happily sell out their peoples for Saudi petrodollars. The question is, how do we obtain it? In the UK, the BNP is advocating the adoption of the Swiss model.
Not only the EU, but all the transnational organizations should be disbanded. EU, UN, NATO, WTO, OIC, IPPC, G20, George Soros, Tariq Ramadan. Move over, tyrants. Let the will of the people prevail.

Recently the Maldives passed a law forbidding the construction of non-Muslim places of worship. Where was the international outcry over that? This is only about minarets....mosques are allowed, freedom of religion is allowed in Switzerland.

The liberal-Left media is allying itself with Islamic supremacism. The resons for this are manifold but above all, this unholy alliance is rooted in the poisonous ideology of cultural relativism and political correctness, which itself sprang from cultural Marxism. We are heading for very dark times indeed. This is just the beginning of a widespread conflict in the West between an Islamic/socialist aliance and the rest of the population who want to preserve their culture and values.

I live in London. A particular part of London with a very high muslim population in comparison to other religions. Over the past 5 years there has been a huge increase in not only the number of mosques/minarets being built but also the number of islam based shops and halal restaurants. There are now whole muslim neighborhoods where it is extremly rare to see a non muslim walking down the street. There has also been an increase in the number of racialy motivated attacks, not against muslims but purportrated by muslims.

I cant explain the feeling you get knowing that your country is losing its own beliefs and culture. because that's exactly what is happening in England. The word christmas has been all but banned because of fears it might upset "non christians" (muslims)

Now i am not a racialist and i am not against people having the right to have their own beliefs regardless of what country they live in. But when a religion starts to impose on the culture and beliefs of other people native to that country then that's a problem.

In my opinion a country has the right to keep its own culture and heritage.

(continued)

The campaign against the minarets was fuelled by just these anxieties and allegations. Voters were drawn to the cause by a manipulative appeal to popular fears and emotions. Posters featured a woman wearing a burka with the minarets drawn as weapons on a colonised Swiss flag. The claim was made that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with Swiss values. (The UDC has in the past demanded my citizenship be revoked because I was defending Islamic values too openly.) Its media strategy was simple but effective. Provoke controversy wherever it can be inflamed. Spread a sense of victimhood among the Swiss people: we are under siege, the Muslims are silently colonising us and we are losing our very roots and culture. This strategy worked. The Swiss majority are sending a clear message to their Muslim fellow citizens: we do not trust you and the best Muslim for us is the Muslim we cannot see.

Who is to be blamed? I have been repeating for years to Muslim people that they have to be positively visible, active and proactive within their respective western societies. In Switzerland, over the past few months, Muslims have striven to remain hidden in order to avoid a clash. It would have been more useful to create new alliances with all these Swiss organisations and political parties that were clearly against the initiative. Swiss Muslims have their share of responsibility but one must add that the political parties, in Europe as in Switzerland have become cowed, and shy from any courageous policies towards religious and cultural pluralism. It is as if the populists set the tone and the rest follow. They fail to assert that Islam is by now a Swiss and a European religion and that Muslim citizens are largely "integrated". That we face common challenges, such as unemployment, poverty and violence – challenges we must face together. We cannot blame the populists alone – it is a wider failure, a lack of courage, a terrible and narrow-minded lack of trust in their new Muslim citizens.

Tariq Ramadan, a Swiss citizen, is professor of contemporary Islamic studies at Oxford University. His most recent book is What I Believe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/29/swiss-vote-ban-minare...

My compatriots' vote to ban minarets is fuelled by fear

The Swiss have voted not against towers, but Muslims. Across Europe, we must stand up to the flame-fanning populists.

It wasn't meant to go this way. For months we had been told that the efforts to ban the construction of minarets in Switzerland were doomed. The last surveys suggested around 34% of the Swiss population would vote for this shocking initiative. Last Friday, in a meeting organised in Lausanne, more than 800 students, professors and citizens were in no doubt that the referendum would see the motion rejected, and instead were focused on how to turn this silly initiative into a more positive future.

Today that confidence was shattered, as 57% of the Swiss population did as the Union Démocratique du Centre (UDC) had urged them to – a worrying sign that this populist party may be closest to the people's fears and expectations. For the first time since 1893 an initiative that singles out one community, with a clear discriminatory essence, has been approved in Switzerland. One can hope that the ban will be rejected at the European level, but that makes the result no less alarming. What is happening in Switzerland, the land of my birth?

There are only four minarets in Switzerland, so why is it that it is there that this initiative has been launched? My country, like many in Europe, is facing a national reaction to the new visibility of European Muslims. The minarets are but a pretext – the UDC wanted first to launch a campaign against the traditional Islamic methods of slaughtering animals but were afraid of testing the sensitivity of Swiss Jews, and instead turned their sights on the minaret as a suitable symbol.

Every European country has its specific symbols or topics through which European Muslims are targeted. In France it is the headscarf or burka; in Germany, mosques; in Britain, violence; cartoons in Denmark; homosexuality in the Netherlands – and so on. It is important to look beyond these symbols and understand what is really happening in Europe in general and in Switzerland in particular: while European countries and citizens are going through a real and deep identity crisis, the new visibility of Muslims is problematic – and it is scary.

At the very moment Europeans find themselves asking, in a globalising, migratory world, "What are our roots?", "Who are we?", "What will our future look like?", they see around them new citizens, new skin colours, new symbols to which they are unaccustomed.

Over the last two decades Islam has become connected to so many controversial debates – violence, extremism, freedom of speech, gender discrimination, forced marriage, to name a few – it is difficult for ordinary citizens to embrace this new Muslim presence as a positive factor. There is a great deal of fear and a palpable mistrust. Who are they? What do they want? And the questions are charged with further suspicion as the idea of Islam being an expansionist religion is intoned. Do these people want to Islamise our country?

(continued below)

This initiative was launched by the extreme right-wing party which has been using fear-inducing tactics, and it is in the less educated rural areas which voted against the building of minarets. As it is, the existing minarets are merely architectural features since the law forbids the "call to prayer" from minarets. This was a non-issue, but the very Neocon-like extreme-right party UDC spread all manner of lies and induced baseless fears in the people. They equated minarets with terrorism and burkas. They used tactics used by the extreme right in other countries - totally dishonest and evil.

This ban is unconstitutional since the Swiss constitution forbids discriminating against any particular group or religion, so it is quite likely that this ban will ultimately be removed. There already are motions put in place to negate this shameful vote.

Being a Canadian poli Sci Student living in Switzeland, with the composition of the Swiss political system and the heavy importance given to direct democracy, its unlikely anything will change at this point...unless a counter movement is introduced eventually, but remember, this is the country that didn't give women the right to vote untill 1971. I attended a political debate on the subject and it was assinine some of the things said by the people for this measure. One woman in the crowd stood up histarically asking why muslims with all their money and oil and their empire from morocco to india have to come to Switzerland anyways. The politician from the no canpaign responded that most of the muslims in switzerland are refugees from ethnic cleansing in the balkans and she replied that "they killed us first". One of the supporting politicians was anti all religious displays in public and claimed he would favour a ban on steeples as well while the most right wing politician claimed it was for cultural preservation and to prevent what he saw as the first step towards sharia law in Switzerland.

Bad headline. Yes the Swiss did this, but where is the Anti Islamic propaganda? Where is V on this? Surely the Swiss aren't as ignorant as George Bush and all those Americans that think Islam may be a problem.....

I'm just gonna say the title of this article is mondo biased and slanted. They approved the ban very recently, how can you expect for the repercussions to be yet observed? Sure, you can speculate what may happen, as people quoted in the article might do - but that's all it is, speculation, not news.

Also this is what happens when religion becomes your culture. Sad.

If your people are going to act like juvenile self centered idiots then you deserve to have your religious symbols banned. Freedom is a two way street and respecting diversity and secularity works both ways. You can't expect people to respect your religion when you cannot take criticism or have your most sacred prophet's image printed.

I don't feel sorry for Islam in this situation. Sorry.

wow. just another step towards banning them out right. How can you ban honest religous displays on private property? I really am at a lack of words to describe how wrong this is. All it does is further inflame mutual hatred and divde a population that should unite.

My aunt lives in Switzerland. She's American but married a native Swiss. It took her like 6 years to get Swiss citizenship and she said the Swiss are notorious for being exclusive. So this really doesnt surprise me, especially if only 6% of the Swiss pop. is Muslim. Its horrible but from what I've heard the Swiss don't come off as the most accepting nation. I havent been there though so I don't know.