Community | December 10, 2009 | 100 comments

Tea Party patriots want mandatory Christmas carols in public schools

source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/10/merry-hyatt-tea-party-pat_n_387408.html

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wayseeker
The Tea Party movement is supposed to be all about keeping the government out of your business. But if some California members get their way, the state will force public schoolchildren to sing Christmas carols.

It's called the "Freedom to Present Christmas Music in Public School Classrooms or Assemblies" initiative.

Merry Hyatt, a substitute teacher and member of the Redding Tea Party Patriots, is behind the push. The Redding Searchlight reports:

The initiative would require schools to provide children the opportunity to listen to or perform Christmas carols, and would subject the schools to litigation if the rule isn't followed.


Schools currently are allowed to offer Christmas music as long as it is used for academic purposes rather than devotional purposes and isn't used to promote a particular religious belief, according to an analysis by the California Legislative Analyst's Office.

Parents are allowed to have their students opt out of the caroling if they express that desire in advance.

"We were having Christmas without Jesus," Hyatt complained of her previous school district.

The initiative has the support of the local Tea Party Patriots president.

"Bottom line is Christmas is about Christmas," said Erin Ryan, president of the Redding Tea Party Patriots. "That's why we have it. It's not about winter solstice or Kwanzaa. It's like, 'Wow you guys, it's called Christmas for a reason.' "

So much for limited government?
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100 comments // Tea Party patriots want mandatory Christmas carols in public schools

  • Giganticus
  • shanklinmike
  • SamuraiDave
    • 0
      SamuraiDave  

    • christmas carols are fine but mandatory? That kind of kills the fun of the holiday season, doesn't it? Nat King Cole singing "The First Noel" can send tremors down the spine but a bunch of kids half with cracking voices being made to sing it can induce earaches.

      These tea bagging douchebags are some of the most unpatriotic hypocritical bunch of "patriots" since McCarthy.

    • 2 years ago
  • slarabee
  • EdJoyProductions
  • jubal
  • tangibleparadox
  • EdJoyProductions
  • Daimyo
    • 0
      Daimyo  

    • Can we just deport these people already? There more of an immigrant pest then actual immigrants who work hard and dont complain and tell people how to live their lives.

      Its good to know that most logical Americans are on current. These people are always on the news.. why? because sane people like us enjoy some entertaining stories.

    • 2 years ago
  • dooderonomy
    • 0
      dooderonomy  

    • she looks so proud in her picture... weird huh?... anyway, you guys have done a good job of blasting this idiot...you know who she looks like? the squirrel lady from funny farm (with Chevy Chase)

    • 2 years ago
  • wayseeker
    • 0
      wayseeker  

    • ibrake4rappers13- No wonder you are threatened if you think that these kids are "worshiping" the President by singing him a song. These kids don't care if it's Bush or Obama or any other President. They are just singing a song too the present President for God's sake. And you wonder why I consider you to be paranoid?

    • 2 years ago
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • wayseeker
    • 0
      wayseeker  
    • wayseeker:

      I'm not worried about the kids singing Christmas Carols. I just don't want a law that says they have too. Obviously you hate Obama and that's coloring your ability to be rational about a song. I give up on you. Good night.

    • 2 years ago
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  
    • wayseeker:

      The point is, religion should be taught IN CHURCH. You cannot teach religion in school and do justice to the over 30,000 denominations of christianity that exist in this country - not to mention the NON christian religions. It just CANNOT be done.

      If you want your kids to be indoctrinated in your brand of Kool-aid, take them to church, the constitution protects you there and prevents the government from interfering in the practice of your particular brand of fairy worship. But if you continue to push having that done in public schools, it is only a matter of time before one particular denomination gains the upper hand and the government ONLY allows that particular denomination to be taught in schools.

      Then where is everybody else? Screwed, that's where.

      So let's just keep religious practice in church, huh?

    • 2 years ago
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • rwahrens
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  
    • wayseeker:

      I also have a problem with schools getting too politically active towards one or the other political party, dude. We are PUBLIC employees and have no business getting involved in partisan politics.

    • 2 years ago
  • wayseeker
    • 0
      wayseeker  

    • These children are singing a single musical tribute to the President of the United States. That threatens people who think Obama is another Hitler but other non paranoid Americans see it as is an appropriate thing to do within our public school system where the kids are learning too understand and appreciate their government. And it is not threatening the separation of church and state concept.

    • 2 years ago
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • JeremyTG77
    • 0
      JeremyTG77  
    • wayseeker:

      I don't think Obama is Hitler, but I was a bit disturbed by the video, too.

      If those kids had been singing a song like that about George W. Bush, liberals would have (rightly) condemned it.

    • 2 years ago
  • wayseeker
    • 0
      wayseeker  
    • wayseeker:

      ibrake4rappers13, These people are not talking about secular songs.: ("We were having Christmas without Jesus," Hyatt complained of her previous school district.) Also they are talking about the songs being mandatory. How can you think mandatory religious songs are OK but one little song sung by 2nd graders which is not mandated isn't OK.?

    • 2 years ago
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • advertisehere
  • unclepete813
    • 0
      unclepete813  

    • see this what i hate, if you want to sing devil xmas carols sing them in your home. school is for learning they all ready dont teach them nothing but keep your religion to your dam self. I sick of ppl pushing their religion on people. how bout i push mine, and my religions is i'm a GOD on this planet and you should have hummanity for all and if you dont, and you have negativty and hate you will be burned in 2012. peace out 1love for all hummanity i keeps it blood raw/it is what it is

    • 2 years ago
  • MizPiz
  • Anonymous26
  • Jonathan_McMillan
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  

    • Well I wouldn't mind if kids in schools sang carols, as long as they AREN'T religious. So let's see what carols there are like that. I can think of the following. (At least they would be getting some music education while they were at it.)

      Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer
      Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer
      Here Comes Santa Claus
      Up on the house top
      Frosty the snowman
      Silver Bells
      Jingle Bell Rock
      Let it Snow, Let is Snow
      I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus
      Deck the Halls
      The Twelve Days of Christmas
      White Christmas
      Winter Wonderland
      The Christmas (Chestnuts roasting on an open fire)
      Holly Jolly Christmas (Burl Ives)
      Santa Baby
      Rocking Around the Christmas Tree
      Santa Claus is Coming To Town
      Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas
      It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
      Blue Christmas (Elvis)
      Wonderful Christmas Time (McCartney)
      Home For the Holidays
      Happy Holidays
      Do They Know its Christmas (Bandaid)

      Can you add anymore to this list? Any that I missed?

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
  • UndoInfluence
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  
    • jubal:

      Dude, just cause you are singing non-religious CHRISTMAS carols doesn't mean you aren't celebrating the holiday. We aren't talking about private celebrations here - we are talking about PUBLIC schools, where such things should not be done.

      There are enough issues in many of our public schools keeping our kids from learning enough - why are we worrying about celebrating holidays when we should be using every possible opportunity to further our kids' educations? You can sing your chosen christmas carols with your kids at home, let's let out teachers get on with what we are paying them to do - teach our children - not to indoctrinate them.

    • 2 years ago
  • regjoeschmo
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  
    • jubal:

      @undoinfluence, What is a Christ? Its a title bestowed on some one, it means "anointed" or "enlightened". Its not the last name of Jesus.

      Christmas is not just for Christians, even though it coincidentally has the Christ part in the word. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. December 25th is the day that the days begin to get longer after the Sun is nailed on the Cross constellation for three days (that is the mythological astrological story that Christmas is based on). ON December 21st, the Sun reaches is lowest point in the southern sky, setting near the constellation Crux. There it sets for exactly three days. Then it rises again on December 25th.

      If you don't believe me Google it, or even better, watch ZEITGEIST.

      December 25th was the birthday of many Christs throughout history and in different parts of the world at different times in history.

      Horus is a good example.
      Krishna is another good example.

      There are dozens of others, all born on December 25th, who were visited by "Three Kings" or "Magi". The Story is a Anthropomorphic Myth Celebrating the first day that gets longer than the night after the winter solstice.

    • 2 years ago
  • jubal
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  
    • jubal:

      Sure, I do. I just don't expect the PUBLIC schools funded by my TAX dollars to use valuable class time for religious purposes. ANY religion, I don't make any distinctions.

    • 2 years ago
  • ozoneocean
    • 0
      ozoneocean  

    • By their very name, the teabaggers are claiming that the rest of the population of America aren't patriots. How is that not highly offensive?

      To Christmas- if people want to sing them at school they should be allowed, but better to stick with the older, cooler ones like Jingle bells, We wish you a merry Christmas and good king thingamajig and not all the later Jesus focused ones. Simply because they're all so amazingly lame.

    • 2 years ago
  • travelingpilgrim
  • wilkinebrutus
  • travelingpilgrim
  • rwahrens
  • mjsmith11
    • 0
      mjsmith11  

    • Just a bullcrap story from a bullcrap source, the huffypost. If you ever get a chance to see this lady speak it is really silly, she is llike the lady on Green Acres.

    • 2 years ago
  • JeremyTG77
    • 0
      JeremyTG77  
    • mjsmith11:

      Yes, perhaps Awiana was jumping the gun, but the Tea Party movement is still full of people who are no less dishonest and inconsistent (i.e. "Get your government out of my Medicare").

    • 2 years ago
  • mjsmith11
    • 0
      mjsmith11  
    • mjsmith11:

      I saw the debate for Governor of California. It was Gray Davis, Ariana Huffington, and Arnold Schwartzenegger. Conan sounded 10 times more intelligent than the two of them losers combined. Arnold didn't even go to Cambridge. and he won the debate and the election.

    • 2 years ago
  • libertyforall
    • 0
      libertyforall  

    • Uh oh, looks like all the lefties sucked up everything on the lying piece of garbage HuffPo without fact checking.

      By the way, presenting one group as all of Tea Party Patriots is another hilarious liberal hit piece.

    • 2 years ago
  • wayseeker
    • 0
      wayseeker  
    • libertyforall:

      Too bad you have a problem with my post. The story is accurate and the headline is not exaggerating. If you read the article you will see that the headline is referring to the women involved and not every Tea Party member in the country. I think knowing that is common sense.

    • 2 years ago
  • JeremyTG77
  • Atalanda_Cameron
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  
    • Atalanda_Cameron:

      If we were talking about private facilities, I'd agree with you.

      But we're not. We're talking about PUBLIC schools, financed with PUBLIC money, in PUBLIC facilities, run by PUBLIC employees and enforced by LAW.

      Using your logic, if muslims were ever to get a majority in your town, they could force your school to offer ISLAMIC songs for Islamic holidays. How'd you like them apples?

      Not much, I'd bet, cause it'd force you to opt your kids out and they'd lose that time, which could be MUCH more productively used learning stuff they really need to pass your State's curriculum.

      Which is the point. Religion belongs IN CHURCH, where it is paid for by those that believe the way that church teaches, taught by people that believe the same way you do.

      I'd bet that their law leaves no opt out provision for teachers that aren't believers. Do you want your kids singing songs taught by atheists? Or muslim teachers?

      Or would you rather they be taught by others that are the same religion as you?

      That is guaranteed to happen only in your CHURCH, where your religion should be practiced in the first place.

      Religion can be taught in public schools only as an academic subject, as in comparative religion classes. There, it makes sense, as it is being studied instead of pushed as a religion. But it should never be allowed to be practiced - that belongs only in a private setting.

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
    • 0
      EdJoyProductions  

    • My response to this was to write my own versions of the christmas carols which inevitably got me sent to the guidance counselor's office. I wanted to sing my carols but they wouldn't let me. ;)

    • 2 years ago
  • jubal
  • EdJoyProductions
    • 0
      EdJoyProductions  
    • EdJoyProductions:

      No, it was much more sophisticated. Guaranteed to scare the faculty. One of my little teenage lyrics was "when we are finally sick of life, we can sit by the fireside, and if you provide the knife, soon we'll commit suicide" to Winter Wonderland. This was in the 80's so they only made me chat with guidance counselor. I imagine if I were a kid now and I wrote stuff like that, they would put me on medication and make me go to therapy 3 times a week.

      Actually, this story has inspired me to write an enchanting little carol about the actual act of teabagging. That would be festive. :D

    • 2 years ago
  • artemis6
    • 0
      artemis6  

    • I have some christian friends who are shocked and dismayed . These sick people are control freaks . There should be fascist speech areas , were they can go , like the free speech areas in the patriot act , where they can go enjoy their crazy time . Away from the rest of us .

    • 2 years ago
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  

    • Yeah, we read the article. An opt out clause does NOT change the fact that they want to FORCE schools to allow sectarian religious songs performed in school. That is a clear violation of the First Amendment, unless they want to change their law to include songs from other religions as well.

      Nobody wants to keep right wing religious fascists from practicing their religion, we just don't want them to use public facilities, employees and money to do it. They seem to have perfectly good churches, let them do it there, where the rest of us don't have to listen.

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  

    • Did anyone read the article? Doesn't look like it, so let's take a closer look:

      "The initiative would require schools to provide children the OPPORTUNITY to listen to or perform Christmas carols, and would subject the schools to litigation if the rule isn't followed.

      "Parents are allowed to have their students OPT OUT of the caroling if they express that desire in advance."

      Seems like a far cry from forcing kids to sing about Jesus, but I guess it does make a good headline. But don't worry athiests, it's not going to happen. The real facists (or Communists rather) at the ACLU will fight tooth and nail to keep Christians (only) from openly practicing their religion, no matter kooky it seems. Just like they fight tooth and nail to keep crosses and nativity scences from public places in the US (lighting a gigantic menorah on the White House lawn is all good though).

    • 2 years ago
  • JeremyTG77
    • 0
      JeremyTG77  
    • maasanova:

      Well, it's no surprise *you* noticed the giant menorah.

      Nice "atheist=Jew communist" smear there, too.

      And I don't know why I'm even replying to you because it's obvious that you're just another Internet troll who doesn't realize how pathetic and sad it is to keep posting on sites you claim to despise.

    • 2 years ago
  • SamuraiDave
    • 0
      SamuraiDave  
    • maasanova:

      what part of the curriculum does caroling fall into? This is just a waste of time and legislation. Ironically but not surprisingly these tea baggers are against heavy taxes but taxes are needed to push forward such legislation.

    • 2 years ago
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  
    • maasanova:

      @JeremyGoode,

      I don't hate Current as you seem to imply; nor do I hate or have a problem with any of the posters here. In fact it's quite the contrary: I love debating with people who's belief systems are different than my own! I am a member of a messageboard where we all agree and it is sooo boring let me tell you.

      It seems that it is you who have a problem with me though.

      @choirtramps23,

      I am not advocating forcing schools the OPPORTUNITY to sing Christmas carols no more than I would advocate schools requiring the OPPORTUNITY to learn to speak Arabic or French or to learn about communism.

      Have you never heard of an elective?

      When I was in school I was required to have physical education, but I wasn't forced to be on the swim team, or play football or even be in gym class.

      By your logic, why have physical education when we could be learning.

    • 2 years ago
  • lovebelve
  • lovebelve
  • lovebelve
  • cefirak
  • JeremyTG77
  • calm_incense
    • 0
      calm_incense  

    • Meh, I'd rather be forced to sing Christmas carols then tortured ala the Spanish Inquisition (which no one expects) or suicide-bombed ala al-Qaeda.

      Besides, I like singing Christmas carols. Huzzah.

    • 2 years ago
  • hell0everything
  • tangibleparadox
    • 0
      tangibleparadox  

    • i don't think jesus was ever involved with my christmas celebrations growing up... it was all about presents. and when i was older, it was about spending time with family and celebrating the spirit of giving.

    • 2 years ago
  • chalice1999
    • 0
      chalice1999  

    • Christmas = Christ's mass. Period.

      Merriam Webster's Definition:

      Main Entry: Christ·mas
      Pronunciation: \ˈkris-məs\
      Function: noun
      Usage: often attributive
      Etymology: Middle English Christemasse, from Old English Cristes mæsse, literally, Christ's mass
      Date: before 12th century
      1 : a Christian feast on December 25 or among some Eastern Orthodox Christians on January 7 that commemorates the birth of Christ and is usually observed as a legal holiday
      2 : christmastide

      — Christ·mas·sy or Christ·masy \-mə-sē\ adjective

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/christmas

    • 2 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • int_massEntropy
  • Future_America
  • nkeg87
    • 0
      nkeg87  

    • I am a firm believer in separation of church and state because the entire rest of the world doesnt believe in the same things as me. I dont understand why people think they have the free will to believe something but others dont have the same free will to NOT believe. I can still spread the word and I don't think letting others choose for themselves makes me less of a Christian.

    • 2 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
    • 0
      DeliaTheArtist  

    • Christmas is undoubtly the most popular holiday in the "holiday season"- how could it not be? Christianity took over most of the world through a variety of methods; even the way we count the years is based around Jesus.

      But Christmas is not the ONLY holiday in the holiday season. So when I read things like "Bottom line is Christmas is about Christmas," said Erin Ryan, president of the Redding Tea Party Patriots. "That's why we have it. It's not about winter solstice or Kwanzaa. It's like, 'Wow you guys, it's called Christmas for a reason.' " it confuses me.

      Has anyone EVER presented the argument that Christmas...ISN'T about Christmas?

      And really, they are going to reference the winter solstice, which has undoubtedly been celebrated far before Christianity appeared on the scene? Even most Christians understand that there is no evidence that Jesus was actually born on Dec 25th; it was WAY after Jesus was supposedly born that his birthdate was declared to be in December - it actually IS all about the winter solstice, because early churches were smart enough to realize that people would convert more easily if they can keep the holidays they are already celebrated, hence most Christian holidays were placed around pagan holidays. Symbols and imagery from MANY religions made their way into early Christmas celebrations and continue to do so today.

      This are all reactions from what has been coined the "war on Christmas" - but there IS no war on Christmas. Most people love Christmas. But Christmas is not the end all be all of the holiday season. People are celebrating Yule, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Christmas, Festivas (for the rest of us), simply a happy Secular Season, etc. Realizing this and not forcing everyone into Christmas exclusively is not war, it's respect - respect for America's diverse cultural heritage, for our continued diversity today, for the beliefs of everyone and not just the majority.

    • 2 years ago
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  

    • Yeah, but WHICH christmas?

      I know most westerners celebrate on Dec 25th, but the Eastern Orthodox Church celebrates christmas on January 7th, because they use the Gregorian calendar.

      And whose traditions will you use? There are people here from all different countries that represent all different christian traditions, and they ALL have different ways of celebrating it.

      Even in Europe, traditions are different - in Germany, gifts are exchanged on christmas eve, when the christ child brings the gifts. Father christmas does his thing on the evening of December 5th, when German children put their boots out in expectation of treats and goodies to eat (if you are good) or coal (if you are bad). The next day, December 6th is known as Santa Claus day. (He is the same as father christmas)

      Man, if the government ever gets into the business of forcing religious celebration, there is going to be blood in the streets as christians battle it out as to just which denomination gets to be the top dog...

      Don't these people EVER read history books?

    • 2 years ago
  • DJMatt2
    • 0
      DJMatt2  
    • rwahrens:

      READ? Are you kidding? That could lead to more dangerous things... like THINKING. Besides, why READ history when Glenn Beck can invent a better version of it?

    • 2 years ago
  • rwahrens
  • regjoeschmo
  • JeremyTG77
    • 0
      JeremyTG77  
    • regjoeschmo:

      Indeed, the otherwise respectable messages of limited government intrusion into people's lives and fiscal responsibility are given a bad name by the most insane people on the Teabagger side, particularly because they're utterly hypocritical about both.

      The lumpenconservatives in the movement also pilfer libertarian ideas even though they spent all of 2008 trashing libertarians.

    • 2 years ago
  • indecisiveh
  • Varex_Sythe
    • 0
      Varex_Sythe  

    • I will now compose a letter to the "Tea Party Patriots" in regards to this matter.

      Dear Tea Party Patriots,

      Accept that not everyone has the same blind religious faith that you were brainwashed... sorry, raised to believe. Some people don't believe in your God, some don't believe in just one god, and some people just don't believe in any god. In conclusion, I would like to say this from the bottom of my heart, PISS OFF!

      Sincerely,
      Varex_Sythe.

    • 2 years ago
  • DJMatt2
    • 0
      DJMatt2  

    • And now their true colors have come out... they don't want government out of our lives, just the government that doesn't reflect their beliefs.

      Hypocrisy, thy name is politics!

    • 2 years ago
  • Follow_me
  • Trauzer
    • 0
      Trauzer  

    • Absurd. Limited government except when it comes to the imposition of cultural and religious practices, then it's totally OK for the government to be involved in your business.

      I also like the casual dismissal of other cultural practices around the same time of year. It's a shame Mrs. Ryan is the President of the Redding Tea Party Patriots; she's not making them look good. At all. My condolences, RTPP.

    • 2 years ago
  • Mariased
    • 0
      Mariased  

    • " It's like, 'Wow you guys, it's called Christmas for a reason.' "

      What a well founded argument they present. This is irrefutable evidence that we should abolish the separation of church and state and mandate Christmas and christian teachings on impressionable school children.

      What a bunch of fascists...

    • 2 years ago
  • urbanwolf
  • Crenshaw_Brothers
  • Ajil
    • 0
      Ajil  

    • too bad the patriots dont read much, there this thing called the Constitution, in it an Amendment, that says something about this. it says it aint gonna happen. next...

    • 2 years ago
  • wayseeker
  • zHellas
  • Nephwrack
  • maasanova
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • advertisehere
    • 0
      advertisehere  
    • Nephwrack:

      Where does anything say that the president has to swear by the bible? Washington did it when he was inaugurated and the rest have followed suit out of respect, kind of like the traditional 2 term limit that held til fdr.

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
  • ibrake4rappers13
  • cynker
  • cynker
  • rwahrens
    • 0
      rwahrens  
    • Nephwrack:

      The government is required through the First Amendment to stay out of religious business. It can neither favor religion through law nor pass laws preventing its practice.

      That's why it is secular. You really should learn to read. It prevents massive amounts of misunderstanding.

    • 2 years ago
  • shanklinmike
  • CreditFigaro
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