Corporations Are Persons, Gitmo Detainees Aren't. Welcome To Our Brave New World.

@vierotchka The average person who has a 401k for a retirement plan has little choice as to where the money is invested. Think about Retired people whose money is in mutual funds which makes them share holders.

Do you think they should be punished for the Rogue CFO?

I would never buy shares in a corporation whose activities are basically criminal. Those who invest in such corporations are tainted by the same crimes. I have on many occasions preferred to remain dirt-poor and unemployed rather than accept to work in a corporation whose activities are criminal or harmful to humanity - such as the weapons industry. It all boils down to a matter of personal choices and morals.

V, yes you COULD halt a corporation's activities. Let's go back to that 5,000 employee corporation and the CFO fraud...but let's say that the corporation is large enough to take the 20 million dollar hit and struggle onward. With me so far?

OK, but the 20 million hit devalues shares, so there is a shareholder suit against the corporation and a criminal indictment against it for fraud. The judge rules against it and orders it to cease operations for two years...OK?

Who gets hurt? Well, all the shareholders, right? Whether they are big institutions like pension funds or little old ladies on fixed incomes. The value of the shares is going to drop like a stone to less than a penny a share. A corporation that does not operate has only the value of whaever its property can be sold for...which is usually a very tiny fraction of a corporation's value. Most of that value is anticipated revenues.

Who else? Well, all of the 5,000 employees, of course. The corporation MIGHT be able to pay them for a month or two before they run out of cash...but that's it. A corporation that is not making any revenues cannot pay employees...including those innocent secretaries, janitors, or even the whole marketing department as in my preceding example.

Who else? Well, all of the vendors that provide goods, services or raw materials to that coporation. No money to pay them. In some cases, as in specialty parts, a vendor may only have ONE client...those vendors will, of course go out of business/bankrupt in a few months, more than likely.

Now about the corporation going back into business in two years? Let's say they were really successful and had 20% of the market for whatever their goods or services were. What happens to that market share when they cease operations? I can guarantee you that their customers are NOT going to wait two years to obtain whatever they got from that corporation. WIthin 30 days they will have gone to competitors. And two years later do you really think they will just leave those competitors and go back to the corporation that was their original supplier --- and that just served a two-year criminal sentence.

No. You either kill the corporation or you don't...because ceasing their operations is the same thing.

One thing I have learned in the law. If you think you have a simple solution, you have probably not thought through the ramifications thoroughly enough. I always have to ask myself...OK what are the most likely consequences of whatever course of action I take here. It is a lot like chess. The best players are always thinking ten moves ahead...

DId you know that a corporation can be executed for breaking the law? However, the law or DOJ or FTC or etc. can't seem to fairly punish any corporation now and for decades.

...and even the upper echelons of the corporation are (very) often unaware of the criminality. I have seen a variation of the following scenario many times. The Chief Financial Officer is cooking the books of the corporation so that each month he can send two million dollars to his account in the Cayman Islands. In ten months he has amassed 20 million, and one day he just doesn't show up for work. The corporation cannot take a 20 million dollar hit and goes under. All of the shareholders are thus burned and sue on the basis of fraud (among other causes of action).

I depose the Chief Marketing Officer and his staff (individually, of course). They seem, even under rigorous questioning to be genuinely baffled. Of course they are. Do you really think the CFO was going to walk over to the Marketing department and say, "Attention everyone! Just so you know, I am ripping off our shareholders blind and in the process jeopardizing all of your careers. That will be all." Of course not. Now, I am not saying that is always the scenario -- but it is one of the most common ones...do we send the marketing department to jail? Even the Chief, if he had no idea what was happening...and is himself out of a job with a resume that lists a corporation of "questionable reputation?"

cztheday, one could "jail" a corporation by halting its activities/sales for the number of years a prison sentence would last.

Corporations ARE held legally accountable for their actions. I sue them every day...and my corporate clients are sued as well (though of course THEY never lose...OK I deserved that eye roll...). You can't put a corporation in jail (unless you really think jailing all 5,000 employees of a corporation that has done something wrong makes sense when we all know that the secretaries, janitors, copy asstants, mailroom clerks, etc, etc had nothing to do with the wrongdoing nor even had any knowledge it was happening), but I have sent officers and directors to jail.

I guess I am a little confused by some of this debate. Corporations have been legally considered "persons" for many decades now...since before I was born, in fact, and I am like...um...seasoned. They don't have ALL the rights real persons have...and they never will. But that is the basis of the word Corp-oration (as in "corpus" (the body), corpse, etc)... Furthermore, most businesses (large and itty bitty) in this country -- which in turn provide nearly all of the country's jobs -- are incorporated.

It isnt only the Gitmo detainees that arent considered people. None of us are. We are nothing more than pawns in their little game to make them richer and richer. They help corrupt the system that is supposed to protect us from them. The politicians are as bad as the corporations. They allow it to happen so they can line their own pockets.

How many of you trust what your politicians tell you? They will pass a healthcare bill that most of you folks wanted and now many of you are unhappy with because of various reasons. { I dont blame you} They sold you out. I have seen a few say its better than nothing. Is that the best you have. I am not for a heathcare bill but if I was I certainly wouldnt be one of them saying...its better than nothing. Is that why you voted for change? I dont think so. No one should have to settle for...its better than nothing....when you voted for something far greater than that. The corporations AND politicians can only get away with what we the people let them. And we let them get away with murder, figuratively and literally in some cases.

Welcome to our brave New World {Order} indeed.

I hope they will come to realize many of us tried to stop the madness and , that the true evil , is the combined corporate power structures of military and finance that hold us all prisoner . There are good people all over the world . This greed and fear mind poison divides us . United we will defeat them . We may be closer than we think .

This is absolutely incredible, we are living in a topsy turvy world for sure now!

Numerous Americans think that these barbaric practices will keep us safe, however we are only creating more enemies.......Most of the people that we detained and tortured, were innocent victims......They were as young as eleven, and as old as ninety two.....Good post

Here is the funny thing, many people will go along with this decision as if there is nothing peculiar about it! I am enjoying the ride to the bottom for capitalism and it's corporate handlers.