What is idle speech?

Bhuddism ISN'T a religion. It's a secular spiritualistic philosophical alternative to religion,
hence the logic. Many movements evolved away from religion. The Greek cynics were one
example. The Quakers were another elightened group cale the "society of friends". None
of these has anything in common with any religion, strange as that might sound to you..

Not a religion? I sure you mean is a system that dosnt teach belief in a god ruling over every event on earth. buddhism teaches their are gods, as well as other systems of practice that lead somewhere. a system in short, called a religion.

"Other systems of practice that lead somewhere" indicates cause and effect. That's natural science, not religion. I've been a Bhuddist for 38 years, and I've never witnessed
any Bhuddist meditative book illustrating any "gods". There is general talk of God, yes. And of heaven also. But you missed my point. Zen Bhuddism is a study in rationality based on lessons found in nature per se because Nature is a manifestation of God. I admit it's quite difficult for the average person to grasp that there is an essential difference between say Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc.. than Bhuddism. But Bhuddism has no dogma, rituals, or belief in any other world than this. It never addresses an afterlife. Never tells you how to achieve the supposed life after death that religions do. It is more a conscientiious objection to the irrationality and arbitrariness of genuine religions. And because all Bhuddism is based in duality eg. not contending, yes it is a NON religion. You can believe whatever you want, and have whatever opinion you want, but you shouldn't argue with genuine facts. The idea of religion is supremely offensive to Bhuddists, though they are so passive and peaceful they will usualy ignore the allegation.
I simply want to point out the truth. Bhuddism does not compare to any of the 3 major world religions. That per se should tell you something.

Dude, you are not "telling the truth" maybe you personally are offended but the distorted use of the term "religion" as its understood in america today. But buddhism is definitely a religion. their are many many different sects of it, including zen. And it is full of ritual. especially the tibetan methods. And if you dont think reincarnation is taught in buddhism than you have missed quiet a bit of the teachings of buddhism at the most basic level. If you dont believe in "gods" what the heck have you been reading. ever hear the word samsara? the god realm is the highest peak of existence! you think this needs to be felt and touched for you to believe in something other than this bardo? there are many bardos, and this is taught as the bardo between birth and death...... the fact is that science isnt illuminating the nature of reality, both relative and ultimate, buddhist religion is. Im sorry the word has such a stigma for you, but really, relax.

Sorry, I was a little rillled. I see your point. but the basic use of language is sometimes dumbed down so the topic can be grasped by others of various capacity. on the surface, their are things that appear to be "religious" but we know that can be penitrated dont we? But I do have to soap box the idea that its in the natural order...... thought and realization. (By the way, did you just admit to their being GOD in your last post, Ln 7?) my understanding is more like the salmon who swims against the current at times. that the ego, is hard wired for selfishness and duality. rather than selflessness, and unity. on some levels, relatively, of course.